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In order to remain free, you need it all. Freedom of information, freedom of speech, and most importantly.... the means and determination to defend it from those that wish to take it away. That's why the second ammendment was written.
This thread is a joke.
I agree... and I also respectfully disagree, jfan....
You had me all the way... until you said that the thread "was a joke." Allow me to explain why I see it otherwise:
We have to look no farther than our own history to see the hierarchy of freedoms... and the power they give to the populace. (Now. mind you- I AGREED with your premise of "overlapping freedoms" in the first place, but bear with me here, as I explain myself....)
There was this social/economic institution we had in America's history known as slavery. At one time, it was unlawful for slaves to read, write, exchange information... to even openly communicate without permission.
A People, yearning to be free, but prevented to do so by the prevailing Law of the Realm, devised their own method of communication/news transmission: the "field holler." It was done in song... because that was the one method of expression that was allowed by the governing class. (...Truth will find it's way to the masses....) Through song, southern slaves remained informed... about not only big happenings such as major shifts in political ideology, but local news, as well ("Cissy and Bill, on the backside of the hill, gonna make themselves a family..")
Those "call and response" efforts not only communicated from ne plantation to another, they also ushered in a form of expression that completely insinuated itself into the very fabric of American society. It influenced church worship. It influenced social cohesion... hell- it even brought birth to The Blues... that seminal artform that spawned modern Jazz and formed the structural basis f Rock & Roll as we know it.
But I digress. Allow me to get back on-point here.
Even in an atmosphere that restricted "freedom of expression," to a populace that was first considered "property," then "3/5ths of a Human Being," that innate Human need to interact overcame law, tradition, and "the way things are."
Transplanted Africans (and their progeny) had no rights to the freedoms that other folks in America could expect. They had no rights to an education, no rights to free speech, no rights to expect decent health care (for the times), no rights to... well, hell- let's just call it as it really was: they had no rights that weren't allowed them by whomever "owned" them.
...And most certainly.... they weren't allowed "the right to keep and bear arms." (...for the establishment of a militia, or anything else, for that matter...)
In short- they had nothing... but speech. Speech that wasn't even "free" at the time... but speech, nonetheless.
____________________
Q: What freed America's slaves?
A: Freedom of expression -in the 'arena of ideas'.... (-along with a whole lot of gunfire, bloodshed, "brother v. brother" deaths... and the darkest years in our nation's history, for this and other reasons...)
Fast-forward to the 1960's.
We had Huey Newton, Bobby Seale, and others advocating for the armed overthrow of The System that "Kept Black People under the thumb of White Suppression." They had a point to make, gained some traction- and a nation-wide network of like-minded individuals signed on. The Black Panthers were born. On the other side of the issue, we had Martin Luther King Jr. ...who advocated a policy of "Non-violent, passive resistance to abuse of authority."
Which message resonated with America? Which message failed to muster troops for "The Cause?"
History has shown us that Martin's message made the deeper impact on American society.... which begs the question, " Why?"
It's not from inherent flaws in either ideology. Sometimes, armed uprising is the only way. Our own revolutionary war is testament to that.
IMHO, the difference was media coverage.
During that tumultuous time, all of America was privy to scenes of Leather-coated Black Panthers brandishing guns and spouting "Anti-establishment speak," along with scenes of peaceful, unarmed 'equal rights" protesters being attacked by trained German Shepherds, and washed down the streets of Selma and Montgomery with high-velocity fire hoses.
America was moved during those days. The 'freedom of information' allowed us by those grainy B&W images on our TV screens showed the entire nation what was really going on... and ushered in a national movement for fundamental change to our social construct.
I wonder, from time to time- how different would our nation's history be, if iPhone cameras were available in 1772.? !824? 1860? 1933? 1962?
Would the pace of our own progress be accelerated by the tenets of the "Freedom on Information Act?"
_______________
My point in all this: It's not a stupid thread. NO idea that encourages free expression and free exchange is ever stupid. If such thinking were still the prevailing attitude in this country:
1. I still would not be free.
2. I'd still not know how to read and write.
3. I'd still not have the financial means to own a computer.
4. I'd still be prohibited- by law- to interact with you in this fashion.
With the exception of The Civil War.... most, if not all of "our commonly-shared rights" were won for me by talking and legislation- not gun-play, or the threat of same. I hail from a People who came to this nation as "farm machinery." Tonight, I exchange ideas with you as A Fellow Citizen. That is absolutely HUGE in a nation's history- and more of it came about through talk, self-evolution and diplomacy than ever came about by "taking up arms."
So.... in my opinion, BTTB's thread isn't a joke at all... it's yet another example of (to coin his phrase) the bedrock of what makes America great.
The 'free exchange of ideas' is what makes us unique on this planet- and I, for one, am grateful for that.
My own family history is testament as to why I feel that way- and why I'll defend BTTB's right to start a thread on a DT message board.
JMH .02,
Clemdawg.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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The topic of the thread is not stupid, it's bttb attitude and responses that make it stupid. BttB is the only enlightened one here and the rest of us are morons for having an opinion that differs from his.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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Legend
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Do you think guns make you free? Keep you free ?
Hell our revolution started with free speech without free speech there is no USA... It's ground zero to activism without it nothing happens...
Without the revolutionary war and those people being armed there would be no U.S.A. either. Free speech started a movement that was eventually won by war, not talk.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Question Clem.....
Had Lincoln have not taken on the battle of the Civil war or if the south had won the civil war...... could you be using slavery as your shining example right now?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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The topic of the thread is not stupid, it's bttb attitude and responses that make it stupid. BttB is the only enlightened one here and the rest of us are morons for having an opinion that differs from his.
This!
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Legend
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I would argue freedom of information is more important than freedom of speech.
In a strict sense, I would agree with you. However in this context they are one in the same. No?
But sure, if we are fed babble by our government or any group we follow to some degree, accuracy is indeed important.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Legend
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Well Clem, well written (as usual). You're fingers type as well as you play the cello. To keep with the spirit here, I guess you could say that "it's not the fingers that do the damage, it's the person behind them". You provide an excellent example of how freedom of speech and information can change cultures without violence. But throughout history, for every peaceful overthrow of a tyrannical regime, there's another where the ability of a population to physically defend themselves played a major role. That's why I said that freedom of speech, freedom of information and the means to protect them from those that want to take them are all required to remain free.
It could have been a good discussion, and Squires pretty much nailed why I said this thread is a joke. It's the attitude and tactics of the OP.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
With the exception of The Civil War.... most, if not all of "our commonly-shared rights" were won for me by talking and legislation- not gun-play, or the threat of same. I hail from a People who came to this nation as "farm machinery." Tonight, I exchange ideas with you as A Fellow Citizen. That is absolutely HUGE in a nation's history- and more of it came about through talk, self-evolution and diplomacy than ever came about by "taking up arms."
1st Thanks Clem for your post, its a perspective I can't share, but I understand it better and feel as though somehow you were able to deliver that message in a way I never could, and it shows how much of a difference free speech and what goes out from it can changed how we feel about events that happen and how we feel about those events. And it all starts with free speech. That was my point from the beginning and you picked up on it and wrote a very eloquent post that delivered a powerful message.
It shows the power of free speech and how it can bend and change perspective. Free speech delivers messages in a way a gun never could.
So I thank you for that fine post.
I think so many Americans know their rights, but few understand them where they came from and why they were written in the 1st place. Nor do they understand there power nor do they understand there place in modern 21st century society.
That said the beginning for all of it is free speech, and that’s the point I was trying to deliver. But many of you don't understand the power of free speech and Clem delivered that message in a way I never could. I have it in me I'm just not a writer, my thoughts wonder and so do my writings I wished it weren’t so but it is. I take solace in knowing that the content is there you just have to look a bit harder when it comes to my writings.
One of the things that I have learned along with what I was able to take from the post Clem made was that when you challenge people to talk about something they feel they know and understand and you demonstrate to them their own ignorance, they become defensive and you begin to hear comments like “this is stupid”, or “this is a joke”. WE are all ignorant as people we know far less then we know if the truth is told. That’s why it’s important to talk to express ourselves to each other in a civil rational manner. In other words it’s how we become less ignorant.
I also think that certain people became offended when their ignorance is exposed to themselves. Most of the people on here for instance became offended by my pushing them to define the bedrock of freedom, because they couldn’t answer that simple question, even when I laid it out for them they couldn’t put the pieces together. I had to all but answer the question for them, and it’s sad, it should have been easy. So there was a lesson to be taken from this and that makes it very relevant especially when society spends so much of their time these days talking about rights.
What I have shown here is that most of modern day Americans don’t understand their rights; they know their rights they don’t understand them (big difference).
I’m not going to apologize for that because it was important to me to demonstrate that although many people pretend to understand freedom few actually do. What most of you take from this is far more likely to have a lasting effect because of how I delivered that message to you. Your feelings may have been hurt but you learned something. (I HOPE)
As I said from the beginning there is so much to be learned and this conversation IMO has only brushed up against what freedom of speech brings to us. It’s changed the world in the past 30 years in ways we never imagined it could. It’s all but put and end to communism and dictators oh they are still out there but their days are numbered. Social media has changed the playing field and has delivered the power of freedom of speech to the world. That’s powerful stuff, and has forever changed not just or society but societies nearly everywhere, and it all happen via the exchange of ideas and information.(free speech)
Some of you need to think about that for a while and apply what you have learned to modern society.
There is a lot more out there to talk about, lets hear it…………………
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Take this however you want, but it is meant to be constructive criticism.
When you make a post such as you did, the words you choose, should be thought out carefully. Many times, a question post with an "I have the answer do you know it" concept, can, and in this case, did come across as arrogant.
Whether you meant it or not that is how it came across, and you responses, did not help alleviate that sediment.
"It's no wonder I have the opinion that most of you are out of touch....... "
"Don't get mad at me and all huffy because I understand it and you don't.......It would be obvious to you if you read what I wrote and you can connect DOTS......Think Think Think read that article I posted its in there and its obvious..."
"It's all in there now come on figure it out 2 worlds? You can do it think think think"
"It’s actually amazing how few truly understand the power of free speech, especially Americans:"
and so on.
If you wanted to discuss "Free Speech" and it's meaning to our freedom, fine, post that. Don't post an 3 page essay and then have a pop-quiz like a grade school teacher.
Beleive it or not most, if not all of us, are adults and are capable of having a discussion on a topic.We just prefer not to be treated like morons that need to be educated.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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I always thought that the only REAL freedom is the pursuit of happiness.
But that's just me.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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In a very real sense, we're free until we're not. The public will sacrifice freedom for safety every time. Both Lincoln & Bush suspended Habeas Corpus in response to the dangers of war.
Free Speech is guaranteed by the constitution as long as it is not "too unpatriotic", "too radical," or "too dangerous." The Sedition Act of 1798, passed only a few years after the first amendment was added to the Constitution, allows for criminal charges to be brought against anyone who says or publishes anything that is "false, scandalous, or malicious" against the federal government, Congress or the president.
In 1917, Congress passed the Federal Espionage Act which prohibited false statements that would interfere with the military or promote the success of its enemies, with penalties of up to $10,000 and/or 20 years in prison for anyone attempting to obstruct the recruitment of men into the military. In 1918, another law was passed by Congress that forbids any statements expressing disrespect for the U.S. government, the Constitution, the flag, or army and navy uniforms. This was tested in the Supreme Court in Schenck v. United States. They ruled that the government could legally restrict speech. The test being "whether the words...are used in such circumstances as to create a clear and present danger."
We entered a near dictatorship when FDR was read into office for four terms. Rationing, price fixing and other restrictions such as the round up and interments of Japanese citizens have happened several times in our history, including the disenfranchisement of blacks after the reconstruction period after the Civil War, when they were supposedly "free".
Freedom is mostly an illusion, practiced by degree and dependent upon circumstance. The Patriot Act alone has eroded the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Eighth and Fourteenth Amendment rights and freedoms.
Are we "free"? Comparatively so, in many ways. Are we "safe"? Probably as safe as we can be, and safer than most societies throughout history.
What makes us safe and keeps us free? People willing to sacrifice their lives to test, expose and overthrow activity, laws and governments that threaten our safety and freedom. Individuals, their (our) thoughts, ideas, ideals, beliefs and sacrifices are the bastions of freedom and safety. Without them, we are all slaves.
JMHO
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Quote:
Take this however you want, but it is meant to be constructive criticism.
When you make a post such as you did, the words you choose, should be thought out carefully. Many times, a question post with an "I have the answer do you know it" concept, can, and in this case, did come across as arrogant.
Whether you meant it or not that is how it came across, and you responses, did not help alleviate that sediment.
"It's no wonder I have the opinion that most of you are out of touch....... "
"Don't get mad at me and all huffy because I understand it and you don't.......It would be obvious to you if you read what I wrote and you can connect DOTS......Think Think Think read that article I posted its in there and its obvious..."
"It's all in there now come on figure it out 2 worlds? You can do it think think think"
"It’s actually amazing how few truly understand the power of free speech, especially Americans:"
and so on.
If you wanted to discuss "Free Speech" and it's meaning to our freedom, fine, post that. Don't post an 3 page essay and then have a pop-quiz like a grade school teacher.
Beleive it or not most, if not all of us, are adults and are capable of having a discussion on a topic.We just prefer not to be treated like morons that need to be educated.
Hold up for a moment here, OK?
Why is it a bad thing to cause you or anyone else to think? The fact that I didn't supply the answer from the beginning made you and many other think for yourself. That makes for a great beginning IMO.
I took a recent event of world history and said what do you get from this? What made it possible for these people to be free, what is the bedrock of our own freedom; and I didn't burden you with my thoughts. How can that be bad?
Is it bad that I didn't think for you? Is it bad that I questioned wether or not you understood the most basic freedom we have and your understanding of it.
What your doing here is your complaining to me about your own short comings. (Hold up NOW) I plead guilty to the same offense at times so I'm not seperating myself from this ny a long shot. What I'm doing is pointing it out to you here today tomorrow you may be doing the same to me. And like you said we are adults right?
Now that likely sounds harsh, but in looking at myself I realize I am very ignorant and I have much to learn. But when someone supplies you with the answers you stop thinking. And that is not what I set out to do. I wanted people to think. To reach their own conclusions, and I also wanted to make a point to people who always spout off about rights.
That is they truly don't understand them, they know them but they don't understand them.
So I ask that you forgive me for causing you to think and I will be certain to supply the answers for you in an attempt to make you feel your being treated as an adult in the future.... 
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
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Hold up for a moment here, OK?
Why is it a bad thing to cause you or anyone else to think? The fact that I didn't supply the answer from the beginning made you and many other think for yourself. That makes for a great beginning IMO.
You keep doing it. THERE IS NO ANSWER  IT IS AN OPINION! Give us your opinion and we will give responses. Don't treat us like you are the all knowing enlightened one that has the answers, especially to something there is no concrete answer to!
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I took a recent event of world history and said what do you get from this? What made it possible for these people to be free, what is the bedrock of our own freedom; and I didn't burden you with my thoughts. How can that be bad?
Is it bad that I didn't think for you? Is it bad that I questioned wether or not you understood the most basic freedom we have and your understanding of it.
What your doing here is your complaining to me about your own short comings. (Hold up NOW) I plead guilty to the same offense at times so I'm not seperating myself from this ny a long shot. What I'm doing is pointing it out to you here today tomorrow you may be doing the same to me. And like you said we are adults right?
You just don't get why what you did made people think you were a pompous jerk. You just keep doing it, over and over.
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Now that likely sounds harsh, but in looking at myself I realize I am very ignorant and I have much to learn. But when someone supplies you with the answers you stop thinking. And that is not what I set out to do. I wanted people to think. To reach their own conclusions, and I also wanted to make a point to people who always spout off about rights.
That is they truly don't understand them, they know them but they don't understand them.
Again, there is no answer, just an opinion. Give it for God's sake! This isn't a freaking test!
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So I ask that you forgive me for causing you to think and I will be certain to supply the answers for you in an attempt to make you feel your being treated as an adult in the future....
BTTB
Wow. Thanks for getting us all so enlightened and able to think for ourselves. You really do not see what you are saying is very "I know it all"? That does not start good debate. Laying out your case, not in the format of a test, does. We all can think just fine, thank you.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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With the exception of The Civil War.... most, if not all of "our commonly-shared rights" were won for me by talking and legislation- not gun-play, or the threat of same.
The foundation for every single one of our commonly shared rights were won in the revolutionary war.. every single one.... then later some were expanded..
That said, I'm a bit saddened by the whole premise of your comment... your rights were won for you? By whom? From whom? Your rights were taken from you by oppressive people first in Africa, then in America, then you were given some of them back...
I am a firm believer that the single most important comment in our founding documents is that our rights come from God...
Government has positioned itself between us and God to determine which of those rights need to be modified and/or regulated because, by and large, we can't handle it. Government doesn't give us freedoms, it only serves to put restrictions and qualifiers on the freedoms that were given to us by God...
In a more perfect world, where people used the freedoms given to us as individuals by God with more respect and responsibility, there would be no need for government at all.
yebat' Putin
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In a more perfect world, where people used the freedoms given to us as individuals by God with more respect and responsibility, there would be no need for government at all.
There is a ring of truth to that unfortunately we don't live in Utopia thats for sure.
Even the founding fathers and we in todays world realize the government is needed to do things we can't do on our own.
I noticed you did touch free speech how do you feel about that and how do you feel about it in the 21st century. For instance has it changed the world? or most of it?
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
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What makes us safe and keeps us free? People willing to sacrifice their lives to test, expose and overthrow activity, laws and governments that threaten our safety and freedom. Individuals, their (our) thoughts, ideas, ideals, beliefs and sacrifices are the bastions of freedom and safety. Without them, we are all slaves.
I'm not sure what your saying here exactly. It takes people speaking out at least that would be the kick off point. I'm not sure that always means the lose of life but it more often then not does. Things have changed so much over the past 30 years, how do you think freedom has changed over the course of the recent past?
How do you view free speech? and how does it effect the world we currently live in. What do you view as the main reason we have seen so many changes in not just our lives but the world at large?
Where do you think the world will go over the next 30 years and how do we fit in that world. In other words what will shape our future and the worlds future going forward? More freedom, less freedom, more open society, more violence, etc. etc.
in other words is it getting better or is it worse?
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
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I'm not sure what your saying here exactly. It takes people speaking out at least that would be the kick off point. I'm not sure that always means the lose of life but it more often then not does.
Didn't say it always means loss of life, but freedom and major social change often requires the willingness to sacrifice life and limb. (Just ask Jimmie Lee Jackson or anyone who participated three weeks later in the march from Selma as one example.)
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Things have changed so much over the past 30 years, how do you think freedom has changed over the course of the recent past?
I don't believe things have changed all that much in thirty years. From 1982 until now? Not much, other than, in my opinion, people have become more greedy, selfish and self-absorbed, and of course 9-11 and terrorism in general have helped to erode personal rights and freedoms, but nothing we haven't seen before, historically. (Check out the Romans, who were masters at quelling personal freedoms and practicing greed and debauchery yet were a "democratic society"). Many of these recent "infringements", in my view, are based on and deal with advances in technology, (air travel, internet, cell phones, etc).
Our greatest advances in personal freedoms have come in the past 100 years; right to vote for women and blacks, economic freedom, child labor laws, workplace safety, global travel, abundant food supply, safety within our borders, etc...
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How do you view free speech?
I believe my original post spells this our fairly clearly. If not exactly an illusion, then it is merely practiced in degree. In other words, I don't believe there exists a pure form of free speech.
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and how does it effect the world we currently live in.
I will simply say this, a well fed populace will never revolt. Give that some thought, come to your own conclusions.
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What do you view as the main reason we have seen so many changes in not just our lives but the world at large?
Positive change can be attributed to many factors including socioeconomic progress, communication, education, scientific and technological advancement and spiritual evolution. Not all change is good. If cell phones cause brain tumors are they good for society even though they help save lives and increase the speed at which we communicate? Is genetically enhanced food good for society if it potentially causes cancer yet allows millions to eat who would otherwise starve? Is restricting personal freedom a positive change if it keeps society as a whole safer? You have to weigh the positive and negative aspects of these issues and draw your own conclusions.
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Where do you think the world will go over the next 30 years and how do we fit in that world.
I expect the government will continue to erode personal freedoms. I expect prices to go higher, food and gasoline to become increasingly difficult to afford, the gap between the uber rich and the poor to widen, the middle class to shrink. I expect frustration and anger to result in mass deaths. I expect major advancements in science, medicine and technology. I expect people to pay ridiculous amounts of money to do, see and own ridiculous things. I expect people to become more selfish, rude, self-interested, and lacking self-control and discipline. I expect these things to happen at a rate where they accepted as the social norm. Pretty much like they have the past 30 years.
Much of our pain is self inflicted due to the lack of self-control and discipline. For example, want a million dollars? Put $2500 a year, every year into a stock that pays a 14% dividend, and assuming the stock doesn't crash, you will have a million dollars in around 31 years. Want more? Add more money or find a higher paying dividend. Can you do this? Yes. Will you? Probably not. Want more personal freedom? Stop blowing things up.
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in other words is it getting better or is it worse?
That's up to you. And our children.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 Likes: 147
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 Likes: 147 |
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Hold up for a moment here, OK?
Why is it a bad thing to cause you or anyone else to think? The fact that I didn't supply the answer from the beginning made you and many other think for yourself. That makes for a great beginning IMO.
I never said it was bad thing, I simply stated that your delivery would put many people off.
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I took a recent event of world history and said what do you get from this? What made it possible for these people to be free, what is the bedrock of our own freedom; and I didn't burden you with my thoughts. How can that be bad?
Is it bad that I didn't think for you? Is it bad that I questioned wether or not you understood the most basic freedom we have and your understanding of it.
It's not a matter if you thought for others or not, it was the condecending tone of your posts and replies that came off as arrogant. Even if that was not your intent, that is how it came off to many. Mainly because from the start you insinuated others didn't know what you knew, particularly on s subject of opinion rather than fact.
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What your doing here is your complaining to me about your own short comings. (Hold up NOW) I plead guilty to the same offense at times so I'm not seperating myself from this ny a long shot. What I'm doing is pointing it out to you here today tomorrow you may be doing the same to me. And like you said we are adults right?
I only replied to your delivery of the topic, not on the topic itself. I was trying to offer insight of why many people found your topic "Stupid" and such, even though it is a very good topic, and one that would make for a great discussion, but as with real life conversations, delivery of comments and ideas can be received in many ways.
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Now that likely sounds harsh, but in looking at myself I realize I am very ignorant and I have much to learn. But when someone supplies you with the answers you stop thinking. And that is not what I set out to do. I wanted people to think. To reach their own conclusions, and I also wanted to make a point to people who always spout off about rights.
That's great. So offer up your opinion, ask others their's, and then debate the differences.
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So I ask that you forgive me for causing you to think and I will be certain to supply the answers for you in an attempt to make you feel your being treated as an adult in the future....
No reason to apologize for causing me to think, I don't mind that, but an apology for the masked insults and pot-shots would be accepted. Cause once again, your wording in that last sentence really comes across like another shot, as well as a couple others in this post.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 73,785 Likes: 1630
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 73,785 Likes: 1630 |
Quote:
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What makes us safe and keeps us free? People willing to sacrifice their lives to test, expose and overthrow activity, laws and governments that threaten our safety and freedom. Individuals, their (our) thoughts, ideas, ideals, beliefs and sacrifices are the bastions of freedom and safety. Without them, we are all slaves.
I'm not sure what your saying here exactly. It takes people speaking out at least that would be the kick off point. I'm not sure that always means the lose of life but it more often then not does.
You mean you're having trouble understanding that? Imagine if he'd of made you try to guess from the beginning?
This country gained its freedom through war. The slaves were freed through war. I understand your basis for free speech but once again, free speech alone did not make this country nor the slaves free.
If yoy wish to imply that fee speech is the take off point, then I would have to agree. However, had the arms to fight Great Britain not have been available, how much longer would it have taken? Would it have even been possible?
It's the same combination now as it was then that shall keep us free. Freedom of speech, freedom to assemble, freedom of information freedom of the press and the right to bare arms.
Our forefathers understood this. They set the stage for it and one of these freedoms in and of itself wouldn't have accomplished the goals we achieved through the Revolutionary and Civil Wars.
Maybe that's why people had so much trouble trying to decipher what you were trying to say. It's because all of these freedoms intertwined together is what keeps us free.
Not any single freedom in and of itself.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 221
2nd String
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2nd String
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 221 |
NRTU
I'd argue that freedom of speech is really only part of one of the bill of rights. So at least here they considered Religion, Speech, and the press to be equally important. So really information is probably a more accurate response in regards to this. I'd venture to say the founding fathers found all the 10 amendments in the constitution equally important freedoms or they wouldn't have put them together. I guess you might argue one is the most important if they had priorities in mind with how they were numbered. Hard to say there.
I'd actually say that many times freedom is an illusion. We are all caught up in things by choice or circumstance that renders us less in control of our outcomes. It's human nature.
If you want the very center of Freedom I'd have to disagree with you and say it is choice. When people realize they have a choice they then will envariably choose the option they prefer, which may not always resonate to others. For instance the majority of people wanted to put the Brother hood in power in Eqypt, but certainly not everyone agrees with the results.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044 |
to give my opinion on "What is the Bedrock of Freedom"? IMO the answer to that question is " The Fire that Burns in mens/womens hearts, also known as Hope" IMO without hope, you can't dream, without hope, there is no future, without hope, there is nothing. as long as men and women can hope, we will always be free, we will always have brighter days to look forward to, something worth loving, something worth caring for, something worth fighting for, something worth defending...it all comes from hope. In all honesty, Hope is what spurs mankind on...its why we exists, it ensures we exist, its what we use when all other options are gone. All most every dark time in the history of mankind has been overcome because of the Hope that lives in men and womens hearts...IMO...that's the foundation of freedom. Just my opinion of course. 
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