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No. I never wished a suspension on Big Ben or Ray Lewis. I never labeled them as a rapist and murderer either. I let the courts decide things and did not think I had the right to determine a man's guilt or innocence.

Now, let me ask you a question. Would those of you who don't want Watson here feel so strongly about your stance if you weren't such Baker Mayfield fans? I can't recall you personally ever being a huge Baker fan/apologist, but I know the other guys making the most noise about Watson's "guilt" are all huge Baker fans.

Geez you paint a grim picture... No matter how you slice it, if Watson is out for the year we are screwed.

I think the idea of being pro-Baker has anything to do with feelings about DW and his allegations is 100% misplaced. In fact I think the very thought that sexual misconduct charges be taken more seriously or less seriously because of the team you support is offensive in either direction.

Big Ben got away with rape - there is a well documented series of events including star struck police who didn't do their jobs because Ben was Ben. The two situations are not alike. There is a reason a very large part of NE Ohio community will forever call Ben TheRapist.

I wanted to replace Baker and I don’t want Watson on the team.

Yeah...it's a boom or bust deal. Take a look at this site: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/contracts/

Go to the "Expires" column and click on that word...it'll sort by the year the contract expires...then scroll down and look at all the 2023 players listed. If Watson is out a year - or more - we will be/get desperate for a starting QB...and we have no 1st and gave up the better 3rd for the 2023 draft.

This "All-In" move to get DW looks almost like a hail-mary to save jobs...jobs that weren't even on-the-line (yet)...but now many of those jobs may very-much be so.

I know you wanted him replaced. I was reading some of your commentary when I was not participating on the board. I respect your decision on Watson. FWIW: I asked the question because 10 asked me about how I would feel if Watson was on the Steelers or Ravens. We are all entitled to our own opinions on these things. My opinion is that I don't think it is fair to convict a person in the court of public opinion. I allow the legal system to handle such things because I think they have way more information than I do. Again, just my opinion.

To add to my last comment - I know plenty of Steeler fans who have said and confirmed this same thing with Ben. When I wrote "NE Ohio" - that's might make it a regional thing - it's not other than that's where Ben played college and is from.

Another lawsuit to be filed against Deshaun Watson Monday according to lawyer

Jared Mueller - 54m ago
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Another civil lawsuit #24 is expected to be filed against Watson on Monday...and any hope of Watson being the Browns starting QB for the first game of the season appear to be less likely.

Then there are the HAPPY ENDINGS comment by Watson's lead attorney yesterday, pretty much confirming that the goal of his client was to have sex with as many of these massage therapists as he could get.

If you had high hopes that Watson would be our starting QB against the Panthers on Sep 11...you now must have some serious concerns.

About Hardin's happy ending comment. Why are people treating this as some sort of stunning new revelation or something? If there's a person here who didn't think Watson was using Instagram masseuse contacts (I use the term masseuse because a majority of the plaintiffs are not massage therapists) for sexual trysts, they had their head in the sand. He never denied having sexual encounters with some of them.

Good question. I think people get too wrapped up in the play by play when it has nothing to do with what will happen in court.

I call BS.

I've never been a huge Baker fan. As recent as mid way through this past season I went around and around with 888 over how much of Baker's injury did or did not impact his play. I lambasted Baker for much of his childish behavior early on in his career. You just have this false image in your mind that for some reason people can't look at the two separately. That's simply false. And when you say it as a statement that makes it a lie.

Do I give Baker credit for when he's played well? Yes I do. Have I been just as hard on him when he hasn't? Yes I have.

According to your own logic, people could easily ask you if your incessant desire to ignore 23 women and counting to support watson isn't because you hate Baker. But see how stupid that sounds?

You're right. We can't believe a word watson says.

From his deposition. Under oath.....


Claiming he only wanted a massage is either a lie or it isn't.

Tony Buzbee: Rusty Hardin “may have single-handedly lost his client’s case”

Rusty Hardin’s effort to legitimize “happy endings” will reverberate through each of the 23 pending lawsuits against Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson.

Attorney Tony Buzbee, who represents the plaintiffs, told John Barr of ESPN.com that Hardin “may have single-handedly lost his client’s case because I’m absolutely going to use that comment because I think it speaks volumes to how he, his team and his client think about the massage industry.”

Added Buzbee: “If you’re in the massage industry, according to Rusty Hardin, that’s to be expected. And apparently that’s what his client expected. I promise you that’s not what any of these women expected.”

Hardin said in a Houston radio appearance that “happy endings” aren’t illegal unless extra money is paid or them. Hardin also said that it’s not a crime to do or say things that make someone else uncomfortable.

Those comments arguably go to the heart of the claims against Watson. The plaintiffs will argue that Watson wanted massages to turn sexual, and that he tried to make that happen. They’ll argue that his efforts crossed the line into civil liability.

And Buzbee is absolutely right on one key point. The comments Hardin made on the radio, along with his effort to clean things up with a statement issued late Friday afternoon, convey an attitude that men should expect massages to sometimes become sexual. That’s obviously not what massages are supposed to be.

As a result of that attitude, men (like Watson, arguably) line up massages and hope that they will take a turn from massage to something else. Watson arguably tried to make those things happen. The nonchalance with with this admission was made will make Buzbee’s cases a little bit easier to prove.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...zg-zemk-5VlA8OxPJP1WEZGCN0yxpTRx9aciFAxI

Just clicking...HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAAA!
That is all.

Yes, we all have to look in the mirror about the decisions we make. That includes the things we accept, what we choose to sweep under the rug, what our priority order is and how we make excuses to accept things that are unacceptable.

You can't play the what if game and mention what if the next accuser says he raped her and beat her up. It's a what if.

What if the next day an accuser said the next one on this list raped her and beat her up?
Any person on earth physically capable.
end of list.

You can't do a what if, it's a what if.

Exactly.

It seems like just yesterday that the same things were said about Baker Mayfield.

Agreed but that was the major concern for me, and ,in my opinion, many rational people. We are on Let's Make a Deal and we bet a ton of what we had for a rather concerning box that we don't know what will come out of. We hope it's a really nice trophy but it could be a 5 years supply of lube.

I'll check that out in a moment,, thanks

But they only way we aren't screwed if watson is out for a year is if we keep Baker and he's happy about it. And that ain't gonna happen...Of all the options out there, Baker is the best if Watson is out...... JMO however.

I’m not so in the tank with Baker. I think I look at him with a pretty sober eye, warts and all. I was certainly very excited that first year and 2020 but last year a lot of blush came off the rose, so to speak.

My problem is and has been since the beginning that the team should do the smartest thing for the long term fortunes of the team. The Watson thing reeks of so much short term desperation and it only could have worked if you hold a bunch of wildly swinging variables in place and things break your way. And what’s more, the act of giving him that contract would cause the number of variables to increase and to swing ever more wildly and makes the breaks ever more unlikely to go your way. I think that was all very predictable for people who’s job it is to model scenarios and risk profiles. We’re now down 3 firsts, a hell of a lot of future cap and up a ton of drama and uncertainly at QB in the near, middle and long term future.

I don’t think Baker is a long term answer but I think we have another playoff run with him healthy next year. His personality may well have torpedoed everything before too long but he was good enough to hold the fort. But that’s over. And we don’t even have any idea how or when we’re going to get him out of here. Just soooo much mismanagement.

jc...

I'm more interested in how the NFL rules in Watson's case because it has direct impact on the team and the goal of competing in the playoffs.

The information below just turned up in my inbox so I will simply put a link to information that is based on the radio interview that Watson's lead attorney had yesterday Texas.

I strongly agree with the last comment in the story though...the Browns should have insisted that Watson and his attorney get the mess 'settled' ASAP.






The 24 Deshaun Watson Trials Present A Key Evidence Question: Can Evidence Of Other Allegations Be Introduced?

Posted by Mike Florio on June 4, 2022, 1:24 PM EDT

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Thanks for answering.

I'm glad we acquired Watson. I had come to the conclusion that no way this team could win it all w/Baker. The AFC has recently become loaded w/quality QBS and Baker is just too limited in too many areas. I had the feeling that the Browns were going to move on from Baker even if they didn't get Watson.

I don't know if I am happy about acquiring Watson. My biggest worry is he is too expensive and won't live up to the cost. If he does then we are sitting pretty.

I was fine with giving Baker another year. I was excited about his good 9 games and playoff win. I thought he looked good in game 1 and then the injury killed him. I really had hoped he would show he was the answer last year. At best he left it as a big question mark, but in reality I think he showed more about himself in losing than anyone was going to credit him for in winning. Just because he is fun to be around when the going is good does not make him a leader of men, and I don't think he is a leader of men.

I am not a football expert, my glasses are way too Orange and Brown, but that's how I see it.

My guess is that the NFL hammers Watson, similar to what the MLB did with Trevor Bauer, and he’s gone until 2023. If that happens then the trade is a disaster.

That's kind of what I'm wondering/thinking right now. IF it happens, look at the assets that we probably could/would lose before the 'savior' ever plays a down.

And, I just highly doubt if DW IS banned for a year or more, that Baker would have any interest in playing this year.........

As time goes on, we'll find out more on ALL fronts.

I have been stating this for weeks.

I agree that Baker ever playing another down for the Browns is very unlikely, but if he and the Browns could ever agree that it was to the benefit of both sides for him to play in DW's absence, it would be at least possible to salvage a playoff possible season. We have so many good players in their peak years that I'd just hate to see those best years get wasted. Then, at least, Baker gets to hit free agency with a clean bill of health and a decent-to-great recent resume, and the Browns have a playoff seasoned roster.

The level of “the NFL hates the Browns” that would come out of Watson missing the entire season will be absurd.

Dave, I have thought about that too. It's logical. I just don't see Baker playing well. Defenses adjusted last year and kept him in the pocket. He really struggles from there. And I know folks will bring up the injury thing and it was a factor. However, almost all of his poor throws and picks had very little to do w/his arm capabilities. There were a ton of bad reads and he really struggles when he has to throw over the top of pass rushers who get their hands up high. TJ Watt talked about how that was the game plan for them. I know there are a couple of guys on here who act like I don't know what I am talking about when it comes to football, but it's one thing that I do know pretty well.

There are two other things. He does not handle pressure well in the pocket. You can't have the top-rated OL every single year. We get too far behind the chains when he takes needless sacks and he doesn't have the talent to play from behind the chains. Things need to be perfect for him. The second thing is that his 4th quarter numbers in close games are a real thing. He was 31st in the league since he entered the league and he was last in the league last year in 4th quarter QBR. Those are important numbers, as our the number of off-target throws/expected completion percentage.

I am not saying this in an argumentative manner and I know you like Baker a lot. You're a good dude and don't insult others just because they have a different opinion. I just think the things I have discussed are pretty important.

That's one thing, but who cares? What worries me is how the cries to fire everyone involved would once again rear its ugly head and I think that is the last thing we should do.

I don’t necessarily think everyone should be fired but if a team gave up a bunch of assets going into a situation like the one we are currently in then questions should definitely be asked. For example, what did they think the suspension would be?

And this is where we differ, because I did see Baker play well for most of 2020 and the first two games of 2021, before the shoulder injury. He was, and is, very good at play action, and while no one will compare him to Michael Vick athletically, we saw him be very effective on play action boots, moving pockets, short slides to the left or right, and on scrambles. He is not fast, but he is "nifty" with the ball in his hand, and he can get a first down running. Pocket throws may not be his forte, but small adjustments to his throwing platform away from the inside scrum have shown his really outstanding (and underrated) arm talent.

Get ready for it snowflake.

I do think one of the differences between Watson and Bauer is Bauer was accused of physical violence, and it appears a lot of it. Watson has not, as far as I understand, been accused of that.

But I am still going to sit here and wait and see what the actual facts are when people are under oath and how the courts rule.

NFL Personal Conduct Policy

All persons associated with the NFL are required to avoid “conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in the National Football League.” This requirement applies to players, coaches, other team employees, owners, game officials and all others privileged to work in the National Football League.

For many years, it has been well understood that rules promoting lawful, ethical, and responsible conduct serve the interests of the League, its players, and fans. Illegal or irresponsible conduct does more than simply tarnish the offender. It puts innocent people at risk, sullies the reputation of others involved in the game, and undermines public respect and support for the NFL.

Standard of Conduct:

While criminal activity is clearly outside the scope of permissible conduct, and persons who engage in criminal activity will be subject to discipline, the standard of conduct for persons employed in the NFL is considerably higher. It is not enough simply to avoid being found guilty of a crime. Instead, as an employee of the NFL or a member club, you are held to a higher standard and expected to conduct yourself in a way that is responsible, promotes the values upon which the League is based, and is lawful.

Persons who fail to live up to this standard of conduct are guilty of conduct detrimental and subject to discipline, even where the conduct itself does not result in conviction of a crime. Discipline may be imposed in any of the following circumstances:

  *Criminal offenses including, but not limited to, those involving: the use or threat of violence; domestic violence and other forms of partner abuse; theft and other property crimes; sex offenses; obstruction or resisting arrest; disorderly conduct; fraud; racketeering; and money laundering; 

*Criminal offenses relating to steroids and prohibited substances, or substances of abuse;

  *Violent or threatening behavior among employees, whether in or outside the workplace; 

*Possession of a gun or other weapon in any workplace setting, including but not limited to stadiums, team facilities, training camp, locker rooms, team planes, buses, parking lots, etc., or unlawful possession of a weapon outside of the workplace; 

*Conduct that imposes inherent danger to the safety and well being of another person; and Conduct that undermines or puts at risk the integrity and reputation of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL players.

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