DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns try to trade for McCarron

Vers,
The FO gets covered IF the report is true that someone other than Sashi faxed it to the bengals. But Haslam has to look at Sashi and Depodesta and put some good/experienced football GM person to work with them. They CANNOT make the decisions on personal all by themselves. We ALL saw the debacle at QB for the last 2 years. But a bigger one has been the WRs!! And to not pick up folks in FA is even worse.

I think Sashi out calculated Haslam/Jackson by having the assistant send the fax to the Bengals. Now really, a 2 and 3 was TOO MUCH for McCarron. We lucked up.

But if I was Haslam, all those buzzards would be in my office and we would go over EVERYTHING an EVERY decision! And then I would be making calls to get a football GM to work with them. Sashi can watch cap and make some deals but the football GM and Hue would have more say.

I don't believe for a second that NE told the Browns to not bother calling again. LOL....that makes no sense.

They apparently lost out on compensation by not trading him before the draft. No way would they want to limit their compensation so they could sign Hoyer. LOL...come on!

They got a 2nd and basically Hoyer for JG. Are you telling me they would rather do that than get two 2nds from us?

I know you like Sashi, but 32, there is no way he can survive this.

I hear you, but why didn't Sashi just take care of it himself? Did he have something else more important to do? Did he already leave for Happy Hour at the country club?

I don't see how he can survive this.

Think about it Vers,
If I have the subordinate send it, and I'm working the phones on another deal( which I doubt) I get to blame the bengals. Now in real life, Sashi or someone from the Browns should have called the bengals on one phone, right next to the fax machine going to the NFL!!

But that is why I think Sashi got slick on Haslam/Jackson. Plus, think about it, once the JG deal went through, the Browns needed to pick up a good WR, not a backup QB with a 2 and 3 pick.

And like I said above, Sashi/Depodesta got some explaining to do today!

Absolutely not... totally and absolute stupidity (even though I'm happy we didn't get AJ but still.)

I wasn't on the "fire Sashi" wagon as hot as many others, but this one tipped me. How utterly stupid? How can we rely on him when we need a miracle? This dude hasn't a clue and needs to stick with concrete elements like adding and subtracting numbers and etc.

Gosh, how did he adhere to such a high position of power/importance being such a buffoon? Jimmy Haslam?

Yeah talented free agents especially QB's always chose the Browns.

I hear you, but if you and I can figure it out, I'm sure the Haslams can too.

You simply can not tolerate insubordination. In any business and especially in one that is so public.

I think they are all gone. Hue's tips to the media can't sit well, either. And it has to worry his bosses that he actually wanted McCarron that badly.

If we would have just signed Jimmy G, this might have all turned out differently.

Oh, the irony of this post.

Shut up

My guess is McCarron's agent called wiki leaks and had them find and hack the Browns email to hold the trade up.

Talented ones don't.. but McCarran might.

It's not even a "take care of it himself" issue. Protocol was to inform the NFL, not send an email to the Bengals! I agree - gross insubordination or complete incompetence. The ONLY way to survive is if Jimmy is in complete denial and refuses to hit the reset button.

Sashi is in a position where the fruits of his efforts (as he sees it) come to play in next year's draft and knows his shelf life in the NFL is practically nil if he screws it up. He didn't want to give up assets for McCarron and for this he actually WAS the smartest man in the room. Dumb because he is at serious risk of making that shelf life even shorter, smart because he feels it's the only path to his future and didn't want McCarron in the mix... and probably wants to finish the season in total futility thinking Hue will take the fall. Either way, brass balls. In a strange way, I think I like him more today than I did yesterday lmao. If he gets fired now, he probably thinks he can blame everything on the diseased culture here and might actually have some NFL heads nod in agreement.

I wouldn't bank on it. And the Browns better not. The only way out of this mess is a franchise saving draft day like the Steelers had in 1974.

I'm not saying this is true at all, but I do want to point out that people were saying the same thing about Cousins before as they're saying about McCarron now. Hue would know what we would have in McCarron.

Looking back... at the end of the day, we lucked out not getting AJ (that's my belief). The one good thing that can come out of the AJ debacle (other than not trading picks for AJ) is that it's a window into some serious issues in our FO that will hopefully be remedied by an experienced GM hire. Sashi is a young guy with lots of potential, but I think he needs to now realize that the adults are about to take this from him. Sashi should stay on board, but his role should be made smaller and more specific.

It hurts, don't it?

The real irony here is that, ultimately, Sashi likely gets canned for preventing Hue & Haslam from committing yet another catastrophic QB blunder.

My thoughts were insubordination as well. Seriously, would ANYBODY have been ecstatic with giving up a 2nd, let alone a 2nd AND 3rd round pick for McCarron, especially when Garoppolo only went for a 2nd?

He could have very well did the ole disobey direct orders for the betterment of the Team tactic. While that is definitely insubordination, I kinda admire it, if that is indeed true.

It still does not deter from the fact that the Browns are a still a complete mess though.

He didn't prevent it, he just delayed it.. He just saved us those picks so next year he can again pass on the best QB in the draft and we can use that 3rd round pick we saved on the 5th best QB in the draft because, you know, he's smarter than everybody else.

Yep, he'll get martyred for it.

I would be kinda onboard with that.

The irony in all of this is - the one thing the FO has demonstrated to date is meticulousness. The reports on emails etc is baffling.

I’m more worried we thought AJ was worth a 2 and 3 at this point. If we were so convinced the time was post draft. It also raises questions about who wanted Kizer, who still thinks he can be the answer. Missing on JG was rough but the unravelling since is distressing.

We’re 0-8. It was always about next year. Team was still playing hard. That’s on Hue and the coaches.

I’m bemused, confused and still think we have a decent defense in the making. Watch us hire a 3-4 DC next year.....

Maybe the Browns thought they were getting AJ Green and finally realized - whoops! - wrong AJ!

It seems pretty clear that it was just a mixup at this point.

Nate Ulrich reported that the Bengals got an email from a person they didn't recognize and that led to the mixup. This jives with other things we have seen (Belichick reportedly thought the organization was too difficult to deal with, which is why he didn't call about Garoppolo).

Either way, get the deal done (I am sooooooooo glad they didn't).

Fair enough. I don't really follow Notre Dame so I probably should have left that part out. Most of my rant was directed at the Haslams and Sashi Brown.

Drobs, is it a good day to be Shonny Football? If I am Kizer and know they were shopping and had a trade done, and I had been benched a few times before bye with half to go, not sure I would be feeling it. Not sure I would still have the lovefest for Hue either.

Pretty obvious Sashi must get a spanking, or one or more Harvards. Knows the price of everything, but the value of nothing crucial. How many more of these non-playing QB's do we need in the paddock anyway? This little episode was infuriating if I felt it was a good trade. Why so redline on the decision?

J/C

This to me smells of a crooked lawyer (not saying ALL lawyers are crooked) finding that loophole that allows a scumbag to walk. I think Sashi knew full well how this was going to turn out when they didn't contact the league directly. As has been mentioned, this isn't his first trade, and he's certainly not dumb about these procedures. I really think he tried to play the coaches and Haslam, and for that, I think he needs to be fired.

One article also mentioned how other teams are going to be less likely to want to deal with this Browns front office. Why would they want to go through thinking they had a deal and then have it fall through due to incompetence on the Browns end?

My guess is (as a cynical Browns fan) that Haslam will finally stick to his word and not fire anyone, and in my opinion this is the most obvious of times to do it.

If Kizer wants to secure the job, it’s via play. Alex Smith has elevated his play since the Chiefs drafted Mahones. It’s an occupational hazard.

I hope we get some good news soon.....

https://www.ohio.com/akron/sports/browns...s-still-botched

Nate Ulrich is the best Browns beat reporter. He doesn't report this without knowing for sure.

While this is not as bad as originally reported, it is a failure that there are so many people are doing things that the other team doesn't know who an email is from.

As I said before .... we were going to give up a 2nd and a 3rd for McCarron .....

We got lucky that the trade was botched.

If we has agreed to a 6th for him, that would have been one thing ..... but a 2nd and a 3rd? No way.

I think the McCarron noise is distracting from the bigger issue - the failure to be involved with discussions for JG. . . regardless of whether JG wanted to come here or not - it was a total failure to not be involved with those discussions. JG was one of two QB's that I saw Hue expressed specific interest/desire for. smh

I've sat back and thought about this and the Garopollo thing and here's my belief:

We dodged two bullets. A 2nd & 3rd for McCarron, or even a 2nd for Garopollo - both of whom would walk after the season (guaranteed), would have been absolutely absurd UNLESS we could work a contract restructuring in as part of the deal, and that wasn't going to happen with either one.

Face it - our only way forward is that Kizer grows and learns, or we get The Next Savior at #1 in the 2018 Draft, which *is* where we will be picking.

http://www.bengals.com/media-lounge/vide...85-8a7b28bdd433


Gotta watch this.. Poor Marvin cant even keep a straight face over the embarrassing Browns Front office..

Kizer is a bust!!!!!!

The early returns would agree, but then again, even the great Peyton Manning had an utterly terrible rookie season. Granted, not as bad as Kizer is having, but still pretty bad.

He's a rookie that should not have ever been starting, had no business and no right to be starting (the number of folks on here screaming for him to start that will now openly bash him is kinda comical, actually)... that got thrown into the starting role. He was the most talented QB on the roster, but he was not remotely ready for that role and is just now beginning to approach having a clue about things.

That's a lot of words to say: you're probably right, and the odds and history are in your favor, but it's still a little too early to completely write him off. But, not to early to plan to take a QB #1 overall in April.

j/c

I truly hope that the reason the Browns didn't send the paperwork is that they had a "WTF are we doing" moment and just stopped the process. Of course, there's been news that the Browns tried to appeal to the NFL to allow the trade to go through.

2nd and 3rd for a guy who, for all intents and purposes, is pretty much Cody Kessler???

Whoever's idea that was...whether Hue's or Front Office's.... needs to be fired now. That's like paying 80K for a freaking Ford Focus.

but, dude.... it's got racing stripes and burp-fart muffler so it's totally drift-ready.

I'm purely speculating here...but my guess is that "Browns" means Haslem. Because I don't think there is ever a time you send in anyone other than the owner to get a "favor" from the NFL office.

But that's me.

Kizer is a bust!!!!!! [/quote]

Hummm after 8 games in his rookie season with not a lot of weapons to work with????

And unless your an owner with the name of Rooney, or Kraft it's out of the question.

Here's the trouble with Kizer. When you can't sense pressure and get blindsided, that's not a good sign. But you can improve on that. It's when you have a guy wide open and you continually miss them, it is just horrible. Usually you can see some good signs if he makes a great play every now and then but they are far and few. He throws a 90 mph duck which is very hard to catch. He has NO touch. I seriously doubt that if you don't have that by now after all that practice, it's not going to happen. When Big Ben debuted, you knew you had something there for sure. It is not so with this kid. They say in college he wanted all the glory without putting in the work. Just sayin!!

jc..

Panic, contradiction and incompetence rule the trade deadline for the Browns -- Bud Shaw

Updated on November 1, 2017 at 2:29 PM

By Bud Shaw, cleveland.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio - Did we say we'd seen this all before in Berea?

Check that. We haven't seen this.

The AJ McCarron non-deal was an unmatched combination of panic, contradiction and incompetence. Pursuing McCarron was questionable enough for various reasons, one being he does not solve your franchise quarterback search.

They say some of the best trades are ones that are never made. This would qualify as that. But reaching that conclusion should feel better than it does for Browns fans looking for reason to believe this regime has a clue.

The sense was that pursuing McCarrron, a fifth-round pick and backup to Andy Dalton was done - almost done - to placate a head coach who has one of the owner's ears and was angry about his front office's failure to make a play for Jimmy Garoppolo.

Reports of a coaching staff enraged to see the execs leave the office early the night before the trade deadline is, if true, evidence of a serious fracture in Berea. It means coaches are now making people outside the building privy to the dynamics inside. That's never good.

Best case, the Browns would've given up too much for McCarron. A second and third rounder is a higher price tag than the 49ers paid to extricate Garoppolo from the Patriots. And it makes so little sense you now have to wonder if the front office lost a power struggle to Hue Jackson, or panicked and threw him a bone.

Either way this is bad business.

If a front office can lose a power struggle to a head coach who's 1-23, whatever that says about its standing with ownership cannot be good.

In a 24-hour period, the Browns were not involved with Garoppolo, then suddenly overly enthusiastic in chasing McCarron, then a non-player again because of a failure to get the paperwork in on time?

The take from Cincinnati is the Browns didn't seem to be on the same page -- imagine that -- and that disagreement over the cost of the deal figured into the delay.

The Bengals got their paperwork signed and into the league office at 3:55. The Browns' paperwork didn't arrive before the 4 p.m. deadline. The Browns' front office is relatively green by NFL definition, but that falls well short of a satisfactory explanation for what happened.

At the same time, you wonder how upset the front office is that such a questionable deal didn't go through. A coaching staff that already doubted everyone was pulling in the same direction was given more reason to be suspicious.

In one simple non-transaction, the Browns covered all the bases of dysfunction.

The front office showed panic in placating the coaching staff. As for contradiction, take your pick.

* Valuing McCarron higher on the trade market than what the Niners paid for Garoppolo.

* Or being willing to bring in a quarterback who might win a few games but compromise the 2018 draft and chances of landing a franchise quarterback there.

If the Browns end up parting ways with kicker Zane Gonzalez this week as rumored, no one would blame him if his first thought was, "Oh, so I'm the problem here?"

We were once again left wondering by day's end if anyone - front office or coaching staff - knows what a franchise quarterback looks like.

And how long it will take the owner who put this marriage together to seek yet another annulment.

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