DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns try to trade for McCarron

We took on 16 million for Brock and we got a 2nd and a 6th from Houston and we gave up a 4th to them.

If this trade went through we would have been paying that 16 million and a 3rd rounder for McCarron. A 5th round selection from a run heavy Alabama team?

Quite so; the boss is not always right, but he is always the boss. JH may have been "forced" into the trade by what had transpired the prior 24 hours, specifically the JG trade. I hope he speaks publically on the current state of his team today or tomorrow...

I think we are better off the McCarron deal didn't go through. Maybe one of our people realized this at the last second and stopped it.

I think you're missing my point. These draft gurus have zero way of knowing or being qualified to form a consensus whether they agree or not. They have zero input as to what the consensus is or is not among NFL FO's. None of them have the ability to work in NFL FO's. They don't know their azz from a hole in the ground.

Now I agree with you that our FO has sucked at drafting, or failing to draft a QB. But my actual point is that trying to draw any conclusion about a "consensus" on any QB's coming out in the draft mean nothing coming from draft gurus. They have zero clue and almost zero ability to give us any clue what NFL FO's think about QB's coming out in the draft. If they did, they'd probably be working in one of those FO's.

Trying to make sense of the Browns’ trade deadline disaster

The Cleveland Browns-Cincinnati Bengals disaster at the trade deadline, centering around A.J. McCarron in exchange for a second- and third-round picks, has had a lot of updates since our initial report Tuesday evening.

I could not possibly write about every new wrinkle to the story, because quite honestly, the story was changing every 30 minutes. Nearing noon on Wednesday, the story is still evolving, but it’s to a point where we can try to summarize what information is out there and also take some guesses as to what happened. Remember that what I am presenting below is a combination of reports and personal speculation, so it would be wise not to treat it as cold hard facts.

The Browns’ coaching staff, presumably spear-headed by head coach Hue Jackson, wanted the team to acquire McCarron. The front office was not on board with the deal, but then team owner Jimmy Haslam stepped in and basically sided with Jackson, which forced the front office to work toward executing the deal. Mary Kay Cabot of the Plain Dealer added that signed off on the trade “because he knows Jackson is trying to win football games with a lack of talent on offense,” and that because the 49ers had already acquired QB Jimmy Garoppolo.
According to Landry Football, “Members of the Browns Player Personnel department feel that while the Front Office did not want to execute the trade, they did so in earnest but ‘screwed up the paperwork’ thus causing the deal to fall through.”
We’ve now learned through multiple reports that when NFL trades are executed, each team needs to notify the league themselves, with their own signature. Considering the number of trades that Cleveland has completed during the Sashi Brown era, it would seem naive to believe that they didn’t understand how to file paperwork to complete a trade.
On Tuesday, we heard about the Browns sending the Bengals an email with their signature on the trade. Reports from Bengals reporters claimed they never received anything, and even if they did, it wouldn’t have mattered because Cleveland needed to file with the NFL on their own. The Bengals sent their document to the NFL, and Cleveland did not.
What happened to the email? On Wednesday, Mary Kay Cabot of the Plain Dealer broke the news that the Bengals found the email.
[The Bengals] located [the email] by Wednesday, a Bengals spokesperson said. But it came in at about 3:54 p.m., and it did not come directly from Browns Executive Vice President of Football Operations Sashi Brown, who was working on the trade. Therefore it was not immediately seen.

It came from an assistant of Brown's, director of football administration Chris Cooper, a name the Bengals did not immediately recognize. The email was sent to Bengals Director of Player Personnel Duke Tobin, who had been dealing with Brown on the trade.
Cabot notes that once the Browns and Bengals agreed on the trade parameters over the phone (about 10-20 minutes before the deadline), Cincinnati began working on their paperwork and were not monitoring emails at that time. The word from the Browns (via Cabot’s sources) maintains that they expected Cincinnati to sign and forward their document to the NFL.
Cabot says that if Cleveland would have cc’ed the NFL on the email they sent to the Bengals, then the trade would have been completed (because Cincinnati sent their own signed document to the NFL, and had the Browns cc’ed on it).
The crazy part in all of this? I’m sure Sashi Brown reluctance in agreeing to the trade led to the stalling that accidentally saved the organization from making a big mistake in over-valuing McCarron, who in my view is no better than Cody Kessler.

So we’ve got an embarrassing situation, and after this, will Haslam be so fumed that he has to fire someone? If he did put his rubber stamp of approval on this, how can you be understanding of a major clerical [censored] up? This impacts any teams willing to do future trade negotiations with your front office, because how can you rely on Cleveland to do their part of the agreement properly? Not to mention that you’ve created even more awkward situations in the quarterback rooms of Cleveland and Cincinnati.

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/11/1/...adline-disaster

I agree, he needs too. As does sashi and hue, I want all three of them up there together. then we can see how they react to what the other is saying in real time.

But regardless of anyones thoughts on AJ or the trade, or JG etc. Jimmy said "get this done" and sashi didn't get it done. He is either inept, or insubordinate. Either way, his job is on the line as it should be.

Well, if you are looking for the exit, I think you found it!

Wish we had found a taker for Britt myself.

Jz, are we setting the amount of records for articles and speculation in the shortest amount of time?

Gosh we're losers that everyone wants a stab at kicking us when we're down. Have some damn mercy, eh?

Unless you're more worried about it being tied to you in your next job interview then keeping your current one. Which may very well have some merit here. Now Sashi can say, "Hey, I know that trade was dumb and I held my ground." And Sashi probably doesn't have to look between the lines very hard to know he'll be doing interviews in a couple months.

The problem is we're deserving of everything negative that's being said about us.

Yes indeed. Either present a unified front or blow it up now. It cannot be allowed to fester any longer...

I would give a great deal right now to argue with you... but it's truth and there's no argument. One of the darkest seasons, probably, since I can remember.

Sorry, I call BS on that. You work for the job you have, not the job you don't. If he is already thinking about future employment opportunities, that just bolsters that fact he needs to go, as he is not all in

Truest statement you have made. Completely agree.

jc

There are four crucial people on any NFL football team. In no particular order:

1. Owner
2. GM or equivalent
3. Head coach
4. Quarterback

For the GM and head coach duo, one of them has to be the big dog and have final say. It can be the GM or the coach; either one can work. They should be on good terms and have similar philosophies, but one should be in charge. Belichick in New England for example.

The owner, or ownership team, matters immensely. He/she/they are the ones who hire and hold accountable the football people. Keeping with the New England example: most businesses the Krafts touch turn out extremely well. Meanwhile, the Haslams ran a business that preyed on and defrauded the little guys (this much is indisputable) and the only thing that prevented Jimmy from criminal prosecution was a degree of plausible deniability that he did not know what was going on. Some leadership there

Still don't think the owner matters?

Here are the last three head coaches in New England:

- Bill Belichick
- Pete Carroll
- Bill Parcells

Who hires these coaches and who holds them accountable?

The Browns hired their own Super Bowl winning head coach a while back. We hired him to be the President of the organization, despite the fact that he had struggled mightily in the front office role previously.

Since our owner at the time was often absent himself, there was nobody to hold the front office accountable. That well-compensated President was known to not really do anything, and even took vacations during the middle of the season

More recently, we gave a career lawyer with no football experience full control over the roster

Just a stunning degree of incompetence. The incredible thing is that he might actually be an improvement over the guy he replaced, who once drafted a troubled cornerback #8 overall without ever meeting with him.

Johnny Manziel, "Let's go get this guy"-- who said that again? The owner should be involved in the franchise but should not meddle in football decisions!

- Sashi Brown has no idea how to build a football team. Could be sued for malpractice he's so clueless, but then who in their right mind would put a lawyer in charge of a football roster. It's mind boggling. I thought the whole idea with bringing in DePodesta was supposed to be to compliment that with a football guy at the top. What were the Haslams thinking?

- Hue Jackson is in over his head as well, you'll never win a championship with that guy, but he looks like Vince Lombardi compared to the mess that's going on above him.

- Kizer is a bum. And Notre Dame is starting to win again, go figure.

This organization is in a really horrible spot. It's bad enough when you've lost 26 out of 27 games in a league set up for parity, but then your football people suck, the weather sucks, the state income tax sucks, the organization is toxic and a laughing stock, head coaches and GMs who have other options won't come here. Some won't even give up a good coordinator gig to become head coach here.

And why would they? Is Hue Jackson, Mike Pettine, or Rob Chudzinski better off for coming here? Doubt it. I'm sure that guaranteed contract at head coaching salary was nice but they could have made it and then some if they had waited for a better opportunity in the first place.

I highly doubt the Haslams are going to sell anytime soon so our best chance is they have an epiphany and actually learn how to run an NFL franchise. God help us.

I 100% agree with you. I'm just trying to look at different angles in an attempt to make some ... any ... sense at to what thinking inside that building could possibly be.

I hear you brother. The only sense that I can make - Hue wanted the trade and worked out the deal, sashi said no. hue when to jimmy. jimmy said yes. then sashi hexed it by not turning in paperwork. To me, that seems like the most logical thing that happened. But like I said regardless of if we or anyone thinks the deal was good or bad, it was jimmys call to make the deal. THAT WE DO KNOW. It didn't get done, THAT WE DO KNOW. For whatever reason, sashi was given an order, and he failed to deliver that order. Goodbye sashi.

Then we could have had AJ throwing to nobody...

Think about the one consistent person in all of this...

Joe Thomas?

honestly, that doesn't really matter does it at this point. The FO has passed on wentz, Watson, JG, and now AJ. That is a lot of players to pass when you have no viable option currently on the roster.

I personally think a 2nd and 3rd for AJ is insane, but that doesn't negate the fact the FO was told by the owner of the team, the guy who spent billion dollars to own, told them to get it done and they didn't. ACCOUNTABILITY needs to be had.

Somewhere Mike Pettine and Ray Farmer are chuckling. We won 10 games under that cloud.

This is a farce of biblical proportions but if Sashi saved us a 2 and a 3, it’s the lining to the cloud. Nobody comes out of this looking good. No-one. Hence I’m glad we saved the picks. I liked some of the deals the FO has made but if the reports are true it’s all untenable.

So much for a quiet week.

Laughing at us, but still getting paid by us. I guess we're paying them to laugh at us? Aren't we paying Butch Davis still? I forget all the coaches we're still compensating hahahaha.

Yea,
Pettine might be laughing but no one will let him be a head coach again!! And Farmer, please, he will be an assistant GM or personal guy, never the head guy again!!

Of course our Browns silly FO dumb luck saved a 2 and 3 pick for a untested backup QB which will not address the lack of playmaker problem.

The Browns look bad but they lucked up.

I didn’t mean it like that. They went 7-9, 3-13. They were fired for it. Now we’re here. 0 and a mile. Commitments to a plan but the participants seemed to have gotten cold feet.

They wouldn’t be laughing at us. Just at the incredulity of it all.

I didn’t want Farmer / Pet retained either once it all came out but I did like Pettine.

Imagine how it’d have gone if we’d have got JG for a 2?

Exactly. We lucked out by this deal not going through. AJ was not the answer.

Bengals located email from Browns about AJ McCarron trade, but NFL still never heard from Browns

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/11/bengals_did_receive_email_from.html


Updated on November 1, 2017 at 11:26 AM Posted on November 1, 2017 at 10:02 AM



By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Bengals did locate the email from the Browns about the AJ McCarron trade that was sent just before the trade deadline Tuesday, but they were in the process of filing their paperwork to the NFL and did not see it until later, a Bengals spokesperson told cleveland.com.

Furthermore, the Browns needed to send their own signed documentation to the league to execute the trade for McCarron. So even if they Bengals had seen the Browns email before the 4 p.m. deadline, Cleveland would have needed to notify the league directly that it approved the trade.

On Tuesday, the Bengals spokesperson told cleveland.com that they never received the email from the Browns in the minutes before the trade deadline.

Ultimately, they located it by Wednesday, the spokesperson said. But it came in at about 3:54 p.m., and it did not come directly from Browns Executive Vice President of Football Operations Sashi Brown, who was working on the trade. Therefore it was not immediately seen.

It came from an assistant of Brown's, director of football administration Chris Cooper, a name the Bengals did not immediately recognize. The email was sent to Bengals Director of Player Personnel Duke Tobin, who had been dealing with Brown on the trade.

The Bengals were in the process of emailing their own paperwork to the NFL when the email came in, and they were not monitoring emails at that time, the spokesperson said.

They had minutes to get their documentation into the NFL, and they assumed the Browns were doing the same. The NFL received the Bengals' documentation at about 3:55 p.m. -- with five minutes to spare.

After Brown and Tobin agreed on the compensation -- and event that took place somewhere between 10 and 20 minutes before the deadline, the Bengals were of the understanding that both parties were hanging up and getting the paperwork emailed to the league.

The Bengals quickly sent the necessary documents to the NFL -- and copied the Browns -- but the Browns only sent their to the Bengals and not to the NFL.

A source with knowledge of the Browns' sequence of events told cleveland.com that they sent their signed document to the Bengals with the expectation that the Bengals would also sign it and forward it on to the league.

A source also told cleveland.com that if the Browns had simply copied the NFL on the document they sent to the Bengals, the trade would have gone through.

One source told cleveland.com that a person in the NFL office told him that the two parties involved in a trade always call the NFL to confirm that everything was received and that it's all systems go.

A source said the NFL never received such a confirmation call from the Browns.

When the Browns missed the deadline, they appealed to the NFL to allow the trade to go through, but they were rejected.

One high level NFL personnel man also said "it would be crazy for the Browns to expect the Bengals to send the Browns paperwork to the NFL. They know they have to notify the league themselves.''

Another said, "the Browns know how to execute a trade. If they had really wanted to make this deal, they would have.''

Several sources have told cleveland.com that the personnel department -- which values it's draft picks very highly -- didn't want to make the trade in the first place, and that's why it wasn't agreed upon until 10 to 20 minutes before the deadline.

The two sides had been talking throughout the day, but didn't agree on the compensation until somewhere between 3:40 p.m. and 3:50 p.m.

Coach Hue Jackson had been pushing for McCarron since the offseason, after it became apparent that they weren't going to be able to land Jimmy Garoppolo, who was traded Tuesday to the 49ers for a 2018 second-round pick. The Browns had tried to trade for Garoppolo during the NFL draft, but made only a half-hearted attempt, sources say. It was also Jackson who really wanted Garoppolo throughout the offseason, and not the front office.

NFL Network reported that the Browns offered a second-round pick and change for Garoppolo on draft night, which the Patriots rejected.

Sources say Browns owner Jimmy Haslam signed off on the McCarron trade on Tuesday after Garoppolo went to the 49ers, because he knows Jackson is trying to win football games with a lack of talent on offense and a rookie quarterback in DeShone Kizer who's thrown three touchdown passes against 11 interceptions, tied for the league-high.

So, Sashi's balls are so big that he knows he can't be fired? He knows that Jimmy refuses to start over next season? Most here agree that yesterday (along with a laundry list of inexcusables) is enough to get him fired, yet if we do we are assuredly "starting over again". I mean, unless there's a qualified GM out there chomping at the bit to have Huge Action as his head coach.

We might suck, but this poopshow is much more entertaining than the daytime soaps.

I don't know... it's hard to imagine "email" being the form of communication used, but apparently it was. It's hard to imagine some Harvard people/other smart people well capable of making a trade to just wait until the last minute, and have it all screwed up. Let little details blow it all up.

Both were sloppy, but if not for Sashi... who sent the email? Andrew Berry? How are we so sloppy? How did this even happen in the pro sports realm?

I guess a better question is, why are we paying these buffoons?

Please,
The biggest Idiot is the one who works for the Bengals. He had the Browns giving up a 2 and 3rd round pick and did NOT push that through immediately?? Man, that's a person that might get fired!!! I would have called the Browns back as soon as I faxed that to the NFL.

Also, we should all be mad that the Browns did not pick up a starting WR. Hell, McCarron might make quicker decisions but who is he throwing too??

it sounds like the power struggle continues. It's pretty obvious The FO didn't want the trade to go through.

They let it seem like it was a communication issue and they can appease Hue and Jimmy by saying they tried while not really wanting the deal to happen.

ND could use Kizer this year ..

Our new QB is way more innacurate than Kizer was ... and i was one that said many times i didn’t know if Kizer would start if he stayed ... well i have my answer may now ... *L* ...

We’d be legite contenders if we had Kizer ... matter of fact .. i’d Feel pretty confident we would win out with him .. with Wimbush I’d say its not even 50/50 ..

Rip Kizer all u want for what hes done since hes been here ,..

But CORRELATING ND WINNING TO HIM LEAVING couldn’t be further from the truth and is complete and utter BS ...

Brian Hoyer - QB - Patriots

Patriots signed QB Brian Hoyer, formerly of the 49ers, to a three-year contract.
According to NFL Network's Ian Rapoport, Hoyer was also being courted by the Packers. He instead chooses to go back to New England where it all began as an UDFA out of Michigan State. Hoyer will slide in as Tom Brady's backup, replacing Jimmy Garoppolo, who was traded to the Niners on Monday.

Related: 49ers

Nov 1 - 12:16 PM

Unlikely that it was part of "The Plan", so in that respect, I imagine there was some degree of resistance to the trade...

I'm not taking sides. I'm simply pointing out that Sashi didn't instruct someone to send the email as was implied. Or maybe he did and knew they wouldn't see it in time. Maybe it's Sashi who didn't want to make the deal?

j/c:

I think that Haslam almost has to blow up the entire thing. I don't see how anyone survives this.

I don't see how Sashi has any chance of surviving. What he did was either an extreme example of incompetence or gross insubordination.

I am guessing that it was insubordination and there is no way the Haslams can allow him to remain. In fact, he'll probably never work in the NFL again.

Anybody shocked? This was probably always part of the deal with the 49'ers. Possibly Sashi was told by NE that JG was not available and don't bother to call again, or that Sashi knew all about the deal and further inquiry would be fruitless. (And no, NE was not interested if we threw in Hogan as part of a deal).

If they want McCarran they can get him free as a FA in 2018 why pay a 2nd and 3rd for a season that is already lost???