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Re: Watson vs Sanders? bugs 08/01/26 04:06 AM
12 Days of Cleveland Browns Christmas:

Michael Stanley: "Here we go again:"
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Re: Watson vs Sanders? bugs 08/01/26 03:30 AM
I was reminiscing about the Kardic Kids of 1980. Actually, tried to remember the 12 days of Cleveland Browns Christmas Song, or something like that!

I got to thinking there are a lot of similarities between players in the song and this year's team. As a fun exercise, I put together a list. The biggest difference is that Coach Rutigliano had added a few more veterans to the mix.

HC: Sam Rutgliana - Todd Monkin;
QB: Brian Sipe – Shedeur Sanders;
RB: Mike and Greg Pruitt – Quinshon Judkins and Dylan Sampson;
OT: Doug Dieken – Spencer Fano;
LB: Clay Matthews – Carson Schwesinger;
WR: Reggie Rucker and Dave Logan – Denzel Boston, Jerry Jeudy, KC Concepcion, and Isaiah Bond;
DE: Lyle Alzado – Jared Verse;
DT: Jerry Wilkinson – Mason Graham;
CB: Thom Darden – Denzel Ward;
TE: Ozzie Newsome – Harold Fannin Jr.;
K: Don Cockroft – Andre Szmyt;

For those who don't know, the 1980 Kardic Kids came after a long, well, not as long as this era, span of bad football. Brian Sipe was a late-round drafted QB. He competed for a few years with Mike Phipps for the starting QB job. He finally won the job. The Browns added a few veterans, and everything fell into place. Expectations at the beginning of the season were low. It seemed like every game had to be won with a late-ending drive or two, maybe three! Thus, the name Kardic Kids!

Hopefully, I put a positive spin on the start of this season! Go Browns!

12 Days of Cleveland Browns Christmas:

Michael Stanley: Here we go again:
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Re: Watson vs Sanders? Day of the Dawg 08/01/26 03:02 AM
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Sanders completion percentage in 2025.... 56.6%

Baker's completion percentage in 2025...... 63.2%

Baker's career percentage completion rate is just slightly higher at 63.5.

Sanders td verses int's in 2025....... 7 td's and 10 ints.

Bakers td's verses int's in 2025...... 26 td's and 11 int's.

Who did you say was more accurate between the two again?

Originally Posted by Day of the Dawg
Baker has a stronger arm and Sanders is more accurate.


Accuracy is not completion percentage. It is not did the ball go to the correct receiver. Accuracy is did the QB throw the ball where they attended. Somehow actually have clue when you post. Passing accuracy is Sanders best trait. It does not mean he made the correct read. It does not mean did he force the throw. All it means is he has an accurate arm. Baker played a few years in Cleveland, and he throws quite a few high throws that is not accuracy.

All I am saying is IMO if Sanders plays to his highest level possible. I do not know if he will. But his highest possible level is his ceiling and that is about Baker level and the Browns let Baker go. The Browns correctly determined they could never win a super bowl with Baker. Where they went wrong is determining that Watson was the QB to win a super bowl with. Sanders provides the most hope in 2026 but if he somehow reaches his full potential, it is no better than what they had in Baker. Baker is an average at best NFL QB that the Browns reached for in 2018 and 9 years later we are still paying the price for that reach.
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Re: Watson vs Sanders? FORTBROWNFAN 08/01/26 02:22 AM
Originally Posted by bonefish
Monken is going to try and win every game.

You don't wait a lifetime for this chance and think about tanking.

He is going to play the guys at each position that he feels will help the team win.

Whoever starts won the job.

I agree. The idea of losing "on purpose" is repulsive and I believe most of your team knows when it happens. If you want to retain your best players and eliminate future "trade me" press conferences, you just can't do that. Also, draft picks aren't sure things no matter how high. Yes, I know all about the odds if you are a QB in the top 5, but to keep credibility with your team you can't start a player, especially a QB, who you truly don't think gives you the best chance to win.
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Re: Watson vs Sanders? WSU Willie 07/31/26 11:23 PM
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Sanders completion percentage in 2025.... 56.6%

Baker's completion percentage in 2025...... 63.2%

Baker's career percentage completion rate is just slightly higher at 63.5.

Sanders td verses int's in 2025....... 7 td's and 10 ints.

Bakers td's verses int's in 2025...... 26 td's and 11 int's.

Who did you say was more accurate between the two again?

Originally Posted by Day of the Dawg
Baker has a stronger arm and Sanders is more accurate.

DOTD commentary about Baker is pure comedy.
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Re: Camp Questions Dawgs4Life 07/31/26 09:59 PM
I felt like Sampson showed very little inside the tackles as a runner. I view him strictly as a receiving back. Not sure if we have another true runner beyond Judkins
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Re: Watson vs Sanders? Dawgs4Life 07/31/26 09:56 PM
It feels like Watson just isn't good (not shocking news to anyone). The question is: does Sanders give us a better chance to win right now?
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Re: Browns News cont. Dawgs4Life 07/31/26 09:55 PM
I saw multiple Browns reporters on social media say that Gabriel had a great day today (something I don't necessarily believe lol).
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Re: Browns News cont. PitDAWG 07/31/26 09:14 PM
As Haslam stated in his initial press conference right after purchasing the Browns. "It is a marketing world."
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Re: Browns News cont. bonefish 07/31/26 08:36 PM
Well I guess I'm excited.

I listened to the Andrew Berry press conference and he said he was excited seven times.

Then I listened to Haslam and his son-in-law and they are excited because they said so about a dozen times.

I would be excited if Jennifer Lawrence decided to move in with me.
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Re: Republican Right Wing Nuts - Part ???? PitDAWG 07/31/26 07:50 PM
"Onward Christian soldiers!".............................

Southern Baptist 'Leader' Listed as Speaker for Anti-Muslim, Anti-Immigrant Conference

William Wolfe heads the Center for Baptist Leadership. This is the controversial company he's keeping at an upcoming conference in Texas.

Less than two months after taking a victory lap following the Southern Baptist Convention’s rightward turn, William Wolfe is headed back into controversy.

Wolfe, who leads the Center for Baptist Leadership and spearheaded efforts to push the nation’s largest Protestant denomination farther to the right during its recent annual meeting, is among the scheduled speakers for this weekend’s gathering of the right-wing True Texas Project (TTP) in Fort Worth.

The first-term Trump administration political appointee made news at a TTP event earlier this year when he expressed alarm about the skin color of people he saw at a DMV office in his home state of North Carolina.

“My boys all look like me—and I want my children to grow up in a country where they’re not minorities,” Wolfe told attendees.

The True Texas Project is listed by the Southern Poverty Law Center as an anti-government group and, as I documented two months ago, the group’s leaders are considered so extreme that mainstream Republicans have publicly denounced them as “antisemites and racists” and boycotted their conferences.

Among the announced topics for the “Year of the Patriot Conference”—which is scheduled to be held at Birchman Baptist Church, a Southern Baptist congregation—are the “strategy for stopping Islam” and “the threats of Sharia law, totalitarianism & communism facing our faith, freedoms, and way of life.”

Wolfe’s topic is listed as “the church’s response to mass immigration.”

Among those joining the Southern Baptist activist are a former neo-Nazi pushing for a White ethnostate, a Christian nationalist podcaster who talks of Jews being “at odds” with American values and argues political violence is “morally justified,” and a political figure with ties to Hitler-loving Nick Fuentes.

Below are, from my perspectives, the three most interesting figures I have identified from the conference;

True Texas speaker Cyan Rose Quinn

Joining the Center for Baptist Leadership founder on the agenda for the daylong conference will be a woman, previously identified for her neo-Nazi ties, who is now pushing for “creative” ways to turn America into a White ethnostate.

Cyan Rose Quinn—whose topic is listed as “They Gotta Go Back: The Remigration Cure”—serves as spokesperson for a white nationalist group known as the White Papers Policy Institute. As I previously reported, the group’s website includes proposals for convincing Black Americans to leave the country.

“Overall, I’m definitely in favor of the secession of the non-White population back to their countries of origin,” Quinn said in one podcast I discovered.

Quinn and Wolfe were both part of the same True Texas Project conference back in February.

True Texas speaker C.Jay Engel

Then, there’s Tennessee-based Christian nationalist C.Jay Engel, a right-wing podcaster and social media provocateur known for controversial views in which he argues that White Protestants, with few exceptions, are the true Americans.

Engel, who has appeared at other events with William Wolfe, is scheduled to speak on the topic: “Ourselves & Our Posterity: Protecting Our Legacy.”

Engel has claimed Jews “as a collective have largely operated at odds with the Old American way of life, rooted as it is in European Christendom” and argued that “antisemitism is actually just a bogeyman.”

Earlier this year, he teamed up with a Pennsylvania man who republishes Nazi-related books to create a non-profit group—the White Civil Advocacy Project—that claims it advocates for the rights of people of his race. He has called for deporting non-White Americans of foreign ancestry like Vivek Ramaswamy.

[b]The right-wing figure recently defended the white nationalist Patriot Front, saying the group “has done nothing wrong and they seem [to] operate with discipline, integrity, patriotism, and moral clarity about their goals.”

And Engel has refused to condemn political violence—if the violence is being carried out by his slice of the political spectrum.

“I think it’s morally justified now,” he wrote in a June post on X. He added, “But it’s not prudent at all. We are not organized and we have no leader yet. So political violence is something I am currently not on board with.”

In another post, Engel laid down his principles: “For my enemies: violence is never the answer. For my friends: we must restore order at all costs.”

True Texas speaker Chris Russo

Also joining CBL founder William Wolfe at the True Texas conference is Chris Russo, president of Texans for Strong Borders. His topic: ”the impact of legal immigration and the key laws that have gotten us to where we are.”

A 2023 Texas Tribune exposé by veteran investigative journalist Robert Downen identified Russo as “a prominent, anonymous figure in Nick Fuentes’ white supremacist movement” who operated under the username “Optics Respecter.”

Russo had been photographed in Texas with Fuentes who, the article noted, is “an avowed admirer of Adolf Hitler and misogynist who has encouraged his followers to beat women.”

According to the trbune;

“The Optics Respecter’s various social media accounts are replete with posts railing against Black people, immigrants and women. They contain slurs against LGBTQ+ people and people with disabilities; claims that women should not be allowed to vote; and screeds against a multiracial society.

“The Optics Respecter account was banned from Twitter in 2022, but has remained active on Gab, a well-known haven for Fuentes’ movement and other far-right figures. Many of the posts have been in defense of Fuentes or parroted his vitriolic disdain for women, the LGBTQ+ community and non-white people.”


Russo reportedly did not respond to Downen’s “repeated requests for comment.”

https://www.hatecomestomainstreet.c...pXXruNDeLboco_aem_pnscXVft9GF3sXLgAILJsg

A Muslim Texan sought to find his place in the party at the state GOP convention. He left in tears.

Muslim delegates and attendees hoping to participate in the state Republican convention were shunned and rejected by members as they espoused themes of party unity ahead of the November election.

https://www.texastribune.org/2026/06/15/texas-republican-party-convention-muslims-sharia-law/
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Re: Republican Right Wing Nuts - Part ???? PitDAWG 07/31/26 07:16 PM
Another day another and another day with more stupid BS being said by the fool on the hill..........

Trump blames Minnesota governor, not Iran, for cyberattacks on the state's water systems

U.S. officials said authorities are probing whether Iran could be behind them.

President Donald Trump on Friday blamed Minnesota's Democratic governor for cyberattacks on the state's water systems even though U.S. officials previously told ABC News authorities are investigating whether Iran or hackers associated with the country could be behind them.

"We heard in Minnesota there was a cyberattack and they blame it on Iran. I don't think so. I think, I blame it on Minnesota because they're grossly incompetent," Trump said a Cabinet meeting at Camp David.

More than 30 water systems in Minnesota were targeted in a cyberattack Sunday and Monday according to Minnesota IT Services (MNIT).

MNIT said the attackers targeted systems to remotely monitor and control equipment, including the programmable logic controllers (PLCs).

The Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) said in an alert Thursday that cyber threat actors are targeting PLCs and modifying passwords to "to lock out operators."

Despite the warnings, Trump laid the blame on Minnesota and Democratic Gov. Tim Walz.

"I think that Minnesota ought to get its act together. It's one of the worst run states," he told ABC News' Mary Bruce when she asked about the attack.

Walz pushed back against Trump in statements on social media Friday.

"Trump knows exactly who is responsible for this attack, and knows that other states were hit too. This is what modern warfare looks like, and it further illustrates there’s no plan to win a war with Iran," he said.

The governor also noted federal cuts by the The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) weakened cyber security.'

"DOGE took an axe to CISA and left the U.S. exposed to cyber attacks. Thankfully, our experts in Minnesota were able to identify the vulnerability quickly and work with local communities to stop it," he said.

MNIT said there are no active requests from Minnesota localities for residents to change their water use and that it is working with federal investigators in the probe. The agency said it has not determined who was responsible.

"In this situation, 'impacted' means investigators confirmed malicious activity involving a system’s technology. It does not mean every affected community experienced a disruption to water service," MNIT said in a statement Thursday.

https://abcnews.com/Politics/trump-...rattacks-states-water/story?id=135266259

Hackers targeted municipal water systems in 7 states this week, FBI says

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/securi...ystems-7-states-week-fbi-says-rcna590210
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Re: Watson vs Sanders? PitDAWG 07/31/26 06:48 PM
Sanders completion percentage in 2025.... 56.6%

Baker's completion percentage in 2025...... 63.2%

Baker's career percentage completion rate is just slightly higher at 63.5.

Sanders td verses int's in 2025....... 7 td's and 10 ints.

Bakers td's verses int's in 2025...... 26 td's and 11 int's.

Who did you say was more accurate between the two again?

Originally Posted by Day of the Dawg
Baker has a stronger arm and Sanders is more accurate.
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Re: Watson vs Sanders? IrishDawg42 07/31/26 06:48 PM
Originally Posted by bonefish
I don't disagree.

However, I am a little more open to SS potential.

Last year was a farce. We were terrible. The OL horrible. No running attack. Lousy receivers.

SS was never supposed to start and he was treated that way.

So, trying to evaluate him based upon seven starts last year is foolish.

I want to see him play. We are still not very good. But, we have made improvements and SS is getting prepared to be a starter.

Sink or swim give him the chance. Don't bench him if it gets a little rough. Let him play.

We have nothing to lose. DW we have nothing to gain. He will be gone after this season.

I agree we have nothing to really gain playing DW, except wins.. I would sacrifice wins for not having to see Watson in a Browns uniform ever again, but I know the coaching staff doesn't feel the same way, so, I am resigned to think the more likely scenario is Watson starting UNLESS they are all in on evaluating Sanders in game situations instead of in winning mode.

Selfishly, I want to just hand the job to Sanders and watch him sink or swim for 17 games.

However, realistically, how many first round QBs look like starters their second season? The cards are stacked against Shedeur. I really don't think it helps that Deion is running around training camp. He needs to head to Boulder and worry about his season ahead.

Shedeur needs no extra distractions...
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Re: Watson vs Sanders? bonefish 07/31/26 05:59 PM
I don't disagree.

However, I am a little more open to SS potential.

Last year was a farce. We were terrible. The OL horrible. No running attack. Lousy receivers.

SS was never supposed to start and he was treated that way.

So, trying to evaluate him based upon seven starts last year is foolish.

I want to see him play. We are still not very good. But, we have made improvements and SS is getting prepared to be a starter.

Sink or swim give him the chance. Don't bench him if it gets a little rough. Let him play.

We have nothing to lose. DW we have nothing to gain. He will be gone after this season.
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Re: Watson vs Sanders? IrishDawg42 07/31/26 05:20 PM
I'm posting the probability of the Browns NOT drafting a QB in the first round of the 2027 draft at 10%.

I think we will have more questions than answers at the conclusion of preseason and we will be asking for the loser of this battle by week 5.

As much as I WANT Sanders to have the talent to make me think we are good at the position moving forward, my brain tells me there is a very low chance of that being the case.
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Re: Watson vs Sanders? 1oldMutt 07/31/26 05:04 PM
Hmmm, shall I drive my Yugo or my Pinto to work today…

The answer is NO to either…
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Re: Watson vs Sanders? Day of the Dawg 07/31/26 04:33 PM
Shedeur Sanders provides the fans the only real hope that 2026 in avoiding yet another long season of bad NFL football. Does he have the ability to be a long-term franchise QB. Probably not. I think his ceiling is around Baker Mayfield in talent. Baker has a stronger arm and Sanders is more accurate. Both are only around 6'1 and decent athletes. The Browns decided after 2021 they could not win a Super Bowl with Baker and even if Sanders plays well, they will eventually come to that same conclusion. If he plays bad or is beaten out by Watson, the Browns are either going to be in position to draft a QB or use tremendous draft capital to draft a QB in 2027. I think Sanders would have to lead the Browns to 10+ wins and the playoffs to get the Browns off their plans to draft a 2027 QB.
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Re: Camp Questions Bard Dawg 07/31/26 04:06 PM
I could watch Mack and Byner 2.0. Or Csonka and Kiick.
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Re: Watson vs Sanders? Bard Dawg 07/31/26 04:03 PM
I mentioned a trade option during camp/preseason. May be worth more to a desperate partner before he has shown his stuff. Some posters are giving him a ton of credit now. I have a scenario that I think might be real for this roster. SS may be named as starter, depth chart and all. Plays poorly. Not the brilliant QB we hoped for. And he plays or regrind the merry-go- round "so we can see what we have."
What i see as possible is our "winner" is the man who won the room. But he is not NFL game winner material. Whips us but loses to strangers. Draft again. Hope somebody emerges, but it may be somebody who cuts your throat in the clutch. I want to see some tight football myself.
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Re: Watson vs Sanders? PitDAWG 07/31/26 03:45 PM
Even if he is the named starter he would have to play lights out to not draft a QB towards the top of next years draft. I think the best realistic expectation is if he plays well enough he may be the backup or traded moving forward into next season. I don't see him or his daddy accepting him moving forward as the backup without some pushback. That could put the Browns in the position of feeling the need to trade him next year. Possibly even before the trade deadline this year.

QB injuries on other teams may make trading him before the trade deadline more beneficial. This is all very speculative moving forward.
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Re: Watson vs Sanders? bonefish 07/31/26 03:31 PM
If DW is named the starter.

Shedeur has no future with the Browns.

IMO that would signal all systems go for the 27 draft.

If Shedeur is beaten out given the full picture of DW and his status with the Browns.

How on earth would SS be considered the future for the QB position?
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Re: Iran War... MoU and forward mgh888 07/31/26 03:23 PM
Profit is not based on doubling your sale price.


For a simplified example:


If you buy/sell something as a supplier - and you buy a unit of "something" at $1 and sell it at $1.50 and you have an average of 20 cents of overheads (fixed and variable costs for staying in business) - you are making 30 cents of profit.

You don't need to increase the sale price by 100% (and all other factors remain the same - which they wouldn't in the real world) to double your profits. . . . In reality you could increase your price by approximately 30 cents to $1.80 and you would double profits.
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Re: Watson vs Sanders? FATE 07/31/26 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by mgh888
Originally Posted by IrishDawg42
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
I am at the point of not caring. It's like choosing between Chuck Frye or Brandon Weeden. After this season we will draft a QB who will in short order be the #1 QB for at least 2.5 seasons. At that point we will know if we have our guy or another dud.


Ditto, right down to every word and period.

There will be obvious hope that it lasts more than 2.5 years, but besides hope.. Yeah, same...

I can understand those sentiments - with one exception. Let's accept or assume or propose that starting Watson because of his experience is likely to result in 2 more wins this season. And instead of a top 7 pick we are picking 12th. Do you care then?

I hate the idea of tanking - I disagree with the idea of tanking. But given that one of the choices is an aging QB with controversy still attached to his name, the other choices are younger and at least have the veneer of having potential ... makes zero sense to start DW.

I really don't think it matters. Not on that sliding scale, anyway. Nothing other than a full-on tank ensures we get our QB by normal means. So, whether we're 7 or 12, we're spending both 1st round assets to get our guy if he's there at the top of the first. We've ensured we're in a position to do that regardless of our record this year.
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Re: Watson vs Sanders? PitDAWG 07/31/26 02:53 PM
Originally Posted by Day of the Dawg
If we wanted to just tank this season why not just keep Stefanski?

rofl catfight
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