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Hey Purp -

Is it the actual board that is malfunctioning at times, or something else? Because I was thinking if it was the actual message board maybe it's time to try taking dawgtalkers to another board?

The old 'official' Cleveland Browns dot com board was nice. Never had any problems with it. I don't know who hosted it though.

https://www.foxnews.com/video/6387005186112

Nick Shirley exposed the fraud firsthand. What a fantastic job this individual reporter did that most reporters just turn a blind eye to blatant fraud of our tax dollars. There needs to be quite a few politicians jailed for this scandal. Need to send a strong message to politicians that our tax dollars is not available for them to use to bring in foreigners to ensure their future votes. This is just sick. 9 Billon dollars missing.

I actually agree with a lot of it but maybe we have some disagreements about the decision making.
The part I think you’re totally spot on is that if you fire one you fire both, otherwise it doesn’t make sense.

The whole Watson experience was a disaster from the start to the end. Whoever said what doesn’t matter. Amateurs the whole bunch.

Haha, no worries. We all are amateurs. You said about being basic/maybe necessity. I don't know the answer. Regarding our rookie playmakers, I know I have said earlier this season they've all had some issues (i.e. spacing in routes, *assuming* at times running the wrong routes, their run blocking). I can see that possibly playing a role into the calls.

I can't speak for years past, as I rarely watched breakdown of games. Stef's play calling this year just seemed all over the place. Play calls didn't seem to have a rhythm and play calls at times weren't building off a look (formation). Maybe it was because of the inexperience of his rookies. Maybe it was just bad calling. I don't know the reason. I do know there were games we ran a certain play/formation that was different than others. The first rep of it...positive play. We tried running one or two other times and both were negative plays. The issue was there wasn't any deception. You have to make the LBs think instead of just instant reaction. That split second of diagnosing or wrong step by the LB can be the difference in a 4 yard gain or a 20 yard gain.

As for Rees, in my opinion I am seeing what the offense is trying to do. They've ran quite a few plays in different formations and have ran, passed, play actioned off of them. As the games have went by, we are seeing that Corley jet sweep/end around...now we are seeing Corley go in motion to show the possibility of a end around only to run other plays off of it. They've also added plays. The Fannin touchdown in the first quarter where he went in motion and looped back under the DE for a TD? The 49ers ran that play against us a few weeks earlier.

No playcaller is perfect.I will just say I've been pleasantly surprised by how Rees has done. Sometimes you just don't see the results due to human error (missed blocks, bad pass, missed targets, etc).

And somehow you think that means they all agree on these decisions? Just because they all go into a room and share their opinions in no way means their opinions all align with one another. When push comes to shove there is a pecking order to the chain of command. Halsam as at the top, Berry is next and Stefanski is at the bottom. None of that is complicated.

I'll give you a couple of examples. Do you think Stefanksi helped green light giving three first round draft picks for watson? Do you think he had any say in the dollar amount of the contract? Do you think he had a say in going back a second time and making watson "an offer he couldn't refuse"?

You see, I'm sure Stefanski was asked his opinion of watson and if watson is a QB he could work with. Based on past film breakdowns could easily say most all NFL HC's would say yes at that point. But beyond that does Stanfanski have anything to do with the handling of the salary cap? Does he oversee the scouting department? How about the analytics department? How about the draft compensation?

What you seem to be saying is that somehow Stefanski has a say in final decisions that are in no way withing his wheelhouse. I'm sure he has some say within his field of expertise but what you are suggesting goes far beyond that. That doesn't make any sense.

As it pertains to "defending Stefanski" that's a matter of perception. I have said more than once that I wouldn't lose any sleep over it if both he and Berry stay or go. I do think there are legitimate reasons to question Stefanski to some degree. Some of his play calling leaves a lot to question.

But what I will do is try to keep things in perspective. To not just let some BS excuses pass by without question just as I've done above.

We both know that both times he was given a decent roster to work with he has made the playoffs. We both know he has been given little talent to work with. Those aren't excuses or in "defense" of anyone. Those are simply the facts of the matter.

The worst possible scenario I could see in all of this is if Berry stays and Stenfanski gets fired. IMO there would be no excuse to keep the man responsible for building the crappy rosters Stefanski has been burdened with trying to produce wins with and Stefanksi shouldering all of the blame. If one goes they should both go.

Pit,
I read that Meidas Touch found a reference to the million documents going through the stuff that was already released and brought it to somebody's attention and all of a sudden they magically appear
I have seen on social media where they undo the redactions and the only name in the referenced piece redacted was trump.

Also, if they are only protecting the victims and there is not supposed to be any pending cases (other than the one trump made up)-why did they retract the 10 co-conspirators? Don't want to hurt somebodies feelings?

Also remember, there is another govt shutdown looming end of January.

This’s a great question Pit and I will give you a direct answer. No.
But if you read my post carefully you will realize that it’s the combination of both or all three that I’m against.

I know you defend Stefanski and I like that even if I disagree with you. At least you’re consistent.
You can say that he has been giving a bad hand, and I partly agree with that but at the same time they both state publicly that they take most big decisions together, or at least with each other’s understanding. That makes it complicated to absolve him from our bad results.

After six seasons it’s hard to blame bad luck, at least in my opinion.

Let’s wait another week then we will know the future of both. If he gets fired I don’t see this as a win, absolutely not. It’s just sad that we have spent a couple of seasons with underwhelming results and almost no accountability. All of us who support the Browns suffers from our bad results.

I'm certainly not an advocate of simply "drafting a QB to draft a QB". However I don't trust myself as being expert enough to evaluate college QB's.

I believe if they shore up the OL and get a legitimate #1 WR without drafting a QB those improvements alone will lead to more wins. Sanders has shown he isn't a terrible QB but none of us have any way to know how far or how much he will develop. Even at the level he is playing at now with better protection and a better running game the Browns would be quite capable of winning 5-8 games next year.

That would put the Browns much further down in the draft order and cost much more in resources to move up in the draft. That's not an ideal scenario. They are however now in that ideal scenario to where the cost would be much more palatable.

Once again I'm not advocating they simply draft a QB for the sake of drafting a QB. But if they identify their designated target and can get him, there would be no better time to do that than now.

I agree Pit. If that's the scenario it would probably take your 2 firsts in 2027, providing you have that extra#1, and probably your first from "28. That's why the picks we make in the"26 draft, our FA moves and the development of Shedeur is so vital. AB has to have another very good draft in "26 the way he had one in "25.

So unless people adopt your line of thinking they have no idea what they're talking about? Superiority complex much?

As long as your first, first round pick isn't #10 or later. At that point it would take a lot more than your two first round picks to move up into the top 5.

Are you excluding yourself from that group of scrubs? If so you need as mirror. Having a superiority complex is not attractive.


When all else fails, bow out and blame others because in your heart you know none of this is kosher. The party of personal responsibility no longer exists.

You can't in good faith defend what's going on and somehow that's the fault of others. It seems to be a theme among your kind these days. Carry on.

I really want to disagree with Scott here, but with the inexperienced QB (as you mentioned), and the subpar performance of the Oline, it is very difficult to form an accurate opinion. But to me, our offensive playcalling appears very basic (of necessity?) and unimaginative. (And to boot, I am an amateur in any event....lol).

Thanks, I appreciate it 🤙🏽

Easy there,,, Purp does this pretty much on his own nickel... Demanding isn't nice in this case....

Ahh the old run and hide thing... Seen a lot of that lately from the likes of Mike Johnston... It's become part of the MAGA playbook

You might be right Peen. You could equally be incorrect. There's not a lot to go on.

I guess my biggest take aways are that there are cover ups across the board - both sides of the policital spectrum, the rich and pwerful and people in positions of influence. That was Epstein's M.O. - he was networking before 'networking' became a buzzword.

With that said - personally what I have seen and know as fact, there is a 2003 50th 'book' that was assembled by Ghislaine Maxwell long, long before Trump aspired to be POTUS.... in it there is a "poem" by Trump and a sketch and signed by Trump. The idea that this was planted 20+ years ago as a 'gtcha' to Trump is idiotic. Even for someone that likes to call Democrats Commies, you have to know in your heart that the note was written by Trump and it absolutely indicated to any rati nale individual with a brain that Trump knew all about Epstein's secrets and between the note and numerous first hand accounts of the girls who were abused by Epstein, Trump partook of those "services" .... another fact is that Ghislaine Maxwell is a monster who deserves to serve every second of her sentance. BUT Trump's cronnies interviewed her, she made some statements and agreed not to incriminate Trump .... and has since (like a week later) moved to a minimum security prison.

If you think that's kosha - either the note from 2003. Or Ghislaine Maxwell being moved to a minimum security prison after suddenly being interviewed by Deputy U.S. Attorney General Todd Blanche ... there's something seriously wrong.

If these QB's do return to school this coming years QB class is turning into what the past years class was like. One really good prospect, Mendoza and a bunch of question marks. In 2025's class it was Ward and a bunch of question marks. If Shedeur doesn't work out it looks like our best bet would be the '27 class. Trading down and getting an extra #1 for '27 makes sense same as we did last April.

If in fact Moore returns to school.

The 2027 draft will have.

Manning
Sellers
Moore
Sayin
Lagway (Florida)
CJ Carr (ND)
Ty Simpson (if he returns to school)
John Mateer (if he returns this year)

Trading back this year will accomplish a dual purpose.

Shedeur will have two full years with the Browns. They should have a damn near a complete picture of his true potential.

If Shedeur proves himself the team is in great shape to really build around him.

If he struggles the Browns will have insurance with two first picks and a stacked class to find another guy.

It could prove to be the best case scenario.

Good breakdown, as always.

I mean this in all sincerity the history of the NFL is rich in culture.

Do a deep dive and research the history of two giant families in football history.

Paul Brown and Art Rooney.

Look at the years they won and lost. Find out why. Those families had all the culture you could want.

You’re proving my point again probably without realizing it.

You need it all. Pat, Andy, a competent GM, a good owner and all the rest.

A winning culture is something you build on day by day, season by season. You simply don’t get a winning culture after three wins per season. (the Browns way)
It’s when you have a winning culture you start to win division titles and Super Bowls, not the other way around.

Sounds logical if you spend some time thinking about it.

You need a competent general manager to draft the next Pat Mahomes or similar.

It can take time but a good owner is patient. Do you get the sense that our owner is patient?
Do you trust our general manager to find the next elite quarterback prospect?
Do you have trust in Stefanski developing and nurturing a young unpolished diamond?

Ask yourself what’s the Browns past history drafting and developing young quarterbacks?

Our GM drafted Dillon Gabriel and Shedeur, signed and traded Flacco and Pickett. That’s only in 2025.

In 2022 our owner together with his other yes sayers signed a sexual predator and gave him 230m guaranteed. Despite all the alarming bells and that Watson rejected Cleveland in the first place. How dumb can anyone be!?

The Browns don’t have the infrastructure to make all these decisions right.
That’s a fact and the last six seasons tells the story. If you don’t believe in me check the results.

Do you honestly think that disastrous results is all because of only bad luck?

This roster is build by Andrew Berry. The good and the bad. It’s because of him that we have a quarterback carousel the last four seasons.
Our results are by large down to Kevin Stefanski. Nobody expect him to win 17 games a season but 3 wins/season 2 years in a row is unacceptable in his position.

The Browns first need to start with getting the decisions right, that’s the first step. Not the other way around.
For that you need competent leaders.

It does sound familiar, GM.....lol

I really don't want to break this down fully tonight (honestly I don't want to at all).
However...

Broncos
Seahawks
Patriots
Bears
Jaguars
Bills
49ers
Rams
Texans
Chargers

These are the top ten best records in the NFL currently. "We probably need elite on 6-7 positions, probably more." Per your quote...please name 6-7 elite players on their teams. One common denominator between all these teams is two things: 1. Their starting QBs have played the whole year or almost all of it. 2. Their QBs have played at a top level the whole year.

These teams do not have 6-7 elite players. They have a couple top players at certain positions with high end QB'ing.

What our team is lacking is a QB making veteran plays or key reads. Want an example? This past game...4th quarter, 4th and 2 we have the ball on our 43 yard line. Quick three step drop, Fannin runs a speed out. He is the main target and the first read. He's open off the break. Throw it the moment he breaks...first down. Sanders stares at it and doesnt pull the trigger. Sack. Game over.

Tom Brady....Patrick Mahomes makes that throw all day. However, a rookie QB still developing may or may not. In the future, he learns from this....or he doesn't. That is the tough part about trying to develop a QB. He will sink or swim. Patience is involved. This happens with a high percentage of QB's in their first season no matter where they are drafted.

It has been interesting watching the All-22 this year. I highly recommend getting a subscription if you have 10 dollars to spare a month and have the time to watch weekly. In my time watching, seeing the plays called by Stef then called by Rees has been night and day. There have been receivers open (no matter how bad or good you think the WRs are) on a high percentage of plays. The issues mostly has been on of the three: 1. WR drops the ball, QB misses the read or the play is blown up instantly b/c of the OL.

Edit: I want to be the first on this site to give props to Rees and his play calling this year. He hasn't been perfect (I don't expect any play caller to be), however he's been very solid. I really hope we can keep him. He's done an excellent job of running the same formations and building different plays (run and pass) off of them.

Peen,
I understand your point. Your point is solid. I agree if Mendoza is significantly better than Moore...and goes crazy this playoff then I don't disgree with you at all. What I will say if both are about the same in evaluating (like i said early opinion) 1a...1b stuff. Mendoza is 22 years old, born Oct 1 2003. Dante Moore 20 years old, born May 4th 2005. My opinion...they will choose Dante being he has similar attributes and can possibly have a higher ceiling being a year and half younger.

That is an extra year and half to develop their passer. If 2027 is their target date, he can sit an extra year behind Sanders and learn/develop.