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Re: QB Dillon Gabriel Activated from IR oobernoober 10/30/26 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Razorthorns

Originally Posted by oobernoober

Originally Posted by Razorthorns

True but it's not like Gabriel is some great veteran QB. We can afford to let him go I think.

I don't get to see practices and stuff, but if it were up to me I'd like to see both 2nd year QBs in Monken's system before sending them elsewhere. Who's to say they wouldn't also play better under a different coach/system?

... this is assuming no team wants to do a AJ McCarron type trade (minus faulty fax machines).

To me Dillon is too short to be a serious option at QB and he is a bit of a whiney brat who doesn't inspire his team mates. Sanders has a better arm and he has great charisma so the guys will play harder for him. I don't think either of them are great QBs but I think Sanders has far more potential than the runt Dillon. JMHO.

I never much liked the "too short" argument regarding Gabriel and similar QBs. Obviously, taller is better but there is no such thing as a minimum height requirement.

For me, I still haven't quite changed my mindset from thinking this was going to be a "throwaway season", so I was hoping to see if Monken could awaken something in our younger QBs. Now that Watson is playing competently and we are stacking wins and looking like we are going to remain competitive, it's looking more and more likely we won't have the usual lost season where we end up starting 3-4 different QBs.

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Re: QB Dillon Gabriel Activated from IR PitDAWG 10/30/26 08:21 PM

Some people take actions to atone for their mistakes and some people don't. It's much easier to forgive the ones who do than the ones who don't.

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Re: Defeated presidential candidate Flávio Bolsonaro and his family land in Miami after fleeing Brazil PitDAWG 10/30/26 08:15 PM

It saddens me to see people use their religious beliefs to excuse outward racism, hate or discrimination against anyone else whether they believe as they do or not. No mater what color of skin they have, what their religion is or where they are from there is no excuse for this type of language. It's why as a Christian myself I in no way wish to be associated with their type. I don't know what book they are reading but the Bible I read tells me to conduct myself totally different than that. It just adds to the overwhelming evidence I have seen that for the most part organized religion is and has been bastardizing Christianity.

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Re: Defeated presidential candidate Flávio Bolsonaro and his family land in Miami after fleeing Brazil mgh888 10/30/26 07:59 PM

I decided to get some other points of reference and asked multiple sources whether this is a hardcore racist comment: "Muslims are a scourge on the Earth and will only bring death and destruction wherever they go. They are all of their father and all he does is steal, kill, and destroy."

ChatGPT:
> Yes. This is explicitly and extremely racist and anti-Muslim hate speech. It demonises an entire religious group, portrays all Muslims as inherently dangerous and destructive, and attributes criminal and violent behaviour collectively to them. It is sweeping, dehumanising language that promotes hostility towards people based solely on their religion.

Deep Seek:
Yes — this is hardcore racism. It dehumanizes all Muslims as a "scourge," claims they inherently bring "death and destruction," and asserts they share an evil nature ("all of their father... steal, kill, and destroy"). That is sweeping, essentialist hatred against an entire religious group.

Claude:
Yes. The statement is a clear example of anti-Muslim bigotry, often described as racism because it racializes a religious group. It dehumanizes Muslims as a “scourge,” asserts that every member of the group shares an inherent evil nature, and predicts violence from them collectively. Criticizing a religion’s ideas is legitimate; condemning all of its followers as innately destructive is not.

Gemini:
Yes, that statement is a clear instance of extreme religious hatred, bigotry, and dehumanizing hate speech. It uses blanket dehumanization ("a scourge on the Earth") and falsely attributes violent intent and criminality to an entire group based on their faith.

Then - Why it is considered racism
Racialization: Even though "Muslim" is a religious label, people are often targeted based on perceived ancestry, appearance, or ethnicity (e.g., skin color, names, dress). The statement treats "Muslims" as a single, inherited group with inherent, biologically or culturally fixed traits ("all of their father"). This is the core mechanism of racism .

Legal & Institutional Recognition: The UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination has explicitly included Muslims among groups affected by racist hate speech . Many scholars and equality bodies treat anti-Muslim hatred as a form of cultural racism .

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Re: QB Dillon Gabriel Activated from IR PitDAWG 10/30/26 07:42 PM

I like several of the QB's. Certainly much better than the fifth and seventh round fliers at the QB position like we will have left to choose from currently on the roster.

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Re: Potential PitDAWG 10/30/26 07:38 PM

Plays when called most often already have your route tree included in the play call. A QB doesn't normally decide on his own which target is his go to read. That target is either open or he isn't. The same with the second designated target in the play design.

In the Titans game they used the run to open up the pass. Not the other way around. All three TD's were scored on rushing plays.

Prior to putting up 183 rushing yards against the Titans, the last time the Browns rushed for at least 183 yards in a regular season game was on September 18, 2023, when they ran for 198 yards against the Pittsburgh Steelers.

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Re: Jeremiah Smith Bandwagon PitDAWG 10/30/26 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by Razorthorns

So let's not waste picks on a QB who isn't going to be much of an improvement over Sanders who is being coached up my Monken. Plus Green is also being devolved by Monkien and I actually feel Green has a LOT of potential.

You are trying to compare the odds of success of a bona fide first round pick at QB to late round flyer picks at the QB position as somehow being similar. That defies any form of logic. I'm not sure if you just can't hear yourself or if you are just being ridiculous on purpose. This is so crazy it's not even worthy of discussion.

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Re: Jeremiah Smith Bandwagon bonefish 10/30/26 07:02 PM

Even though KC and Boston are rookies I could not be more encouraged.

These two are the best young receivers in my memory.

In addition I believe Fannin is a complete stud. He is a monster after the catch. Those three guys could develop into weapons of mass destruction.

I don't know where this whole DW thing will end up. I thought he was going bomb this year. So, on that note I was dead wrong.

I didn't think he had it in him mentally or physically.

So, for now it is a week to week thing. He is trending upward. It is obvious he is gaining confidence. He is playing under control instead of panic.

I do know where this will go? You would think he will improve as chemistry develops.

This game will test him. Looks like Howard will be out. So, that leaves Jones on Watt.

Man, I want this game bad.

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Re: QB Dillon Gabriel Activated from IR Razorthorns 10/30/26 06:52 PM

That is very cool. I didn't know about that. Thanks for sharing that with us FATE! I love seeing it!

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Re: Potential Razorthorns 10/30/26 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by PitDAWG

Originally Posted by Razorthorns

Watson was visibly faster getting rid of the ball. He was making much faster decisions. Anyone who pays attention to QBs can easily see that. For a QB to make decisions that fast means he knew where he wanted to go with the ball before he snapped it because he read the defense and was keyed in on the tells. It also showed he is starting to have genuine trust in his WRs. To me this means Monken has loosened the chains and told him to let the ball rip which actually plays to Watson's strengths as a QB. Kevin was a control freak in how he wanted QBs to play and it was toxic to our QBs IMHO. Watson is getting looser, more decisive, and confident thanks to Monken.

Now that was how he played against Ten. How will he do against the Steelers? That to me will be the true mark of his development. Can he repeat that fast decision making and get that ball out fast when the Steelers are smashing his face in? Guess we will find out. BTW when Watson takes less than 2.9 second to throw the ball ... we win.

It's not a question of if he was getting rid of the ball more quickly. Which according to the times I have shown you to be factual it wasn't much faster than some other games and even slower than in one game this season.

The question becomes why? What circumstances were different that created that situation?

The Browns rushed for 183 yards with 3 td's and averaging 6.3 yards per carry.

Quite simply the Titans had to defend against the run which doesn't allow them to drop more players back into coverage.

When a QB's first read is open, they get rid of the ball quickly. There's really not much left to decide or process at that point. When a QB doesn't have his first read open he has to start going through his progressions. That takes longer. Even if his second target is open he gets to that read quickly. What we have seen in the past this season isn't that he was slower at processing or getting rid of the ball. It was that he didn't have to search for an open target. They were open.

It's sort of odd to me that you can't see this. In another thread discussing the WR's you yourself said you weren't impressed with KC. That he didn't get open that much and disappeared in a lot of games. Yet not in this game. You haven't figured out the reason why? Because he was open which made it easy to get the ball out to him quickly. When you are running all over them they tend to focus more on that.

And here is another thing that was a reason there seemed to be such s difference. In the Titans game watson was only sacked one time. The D only made contact with him 5 times and he was only hurried on 5 plays out of 38 drop backs. That allows for a comfort zone he hadn't seen this season.

Allow me to ask you a very basic question here. If KC and Fannin had been covered when he went through his progressions, could he have gotten rid of the ball as fast and made the decision to throw the ball as quickly? When you look at your first target and second targets and one of those two options are open the QB gets rid of the ball quickly. It's that simple.

Just one more question. If the Browns get into a game where the opposing D can stop the run and get pressure on watson with four or five guys and drop more players into coverage as we saw up until the titans game will you claim watson regressed and is less decisive because his initial targets are covered?

These things either work or don't work when looking at what else is happening on the field of play.

When you can run all over your opponent and your initial targets are wide open, QB's get rid of thew ball with success much quicker. They look decisive because because they can throw the ball to an open target.

According to your logic it seems you think watson turned from a frog into a prince over the course of a week in season 10 of his NFL career. That's not what happened here.

Some fair questions.

Yes, when a qb's first read is open it speeds up the game for him. No doubt. But that seldom happens unless the QB is reading the defence presnap and KNOWS where the open guy is going to be. Then he has to have the confidence to TRUST how he read the defense and that his receiver is going to get open or fight for the ball if they are not.

yes, when you can run the ball it helps a lot too. I mean it was against the Titans but we are the team who has scored the most points against them all season so far. The thing is when you can pass the ball effectively beyond dink and dunk passes it opens up the run game because they can't just stack the line to stop the run. I don't think it's a surprise that as Watson suddenly started opening up the pass game that our running game got much better. The thing is that when both the run game and the passing game are working it opens up the game for BOTH like a self feeding loop. The trope of a good run game opens up the passing game is only true when you have an offensive line that can dominate. The Browns do NOT have a dominant offensive line. I think this game is a case of the Titan's defense sucks so all facets of our offense was working.

Yeah, Watson got sacked less because he got rid of the ball fast. Funny how that works ... We have also won every single game where watson gets rid of the ball in under 2.9 seconds and when he takes longer we lose.

If the receiver are covered then I expect him to know that and RUN. Don't just sit there and get hit. Making that decision is also important. So far we only have one game against a bad team to show he is capable of making fast decisions. I am not ready to anoint him as the second coming so don't over play what I am saying. I am only saying he has made progress and shown what he can do in THIS system and under this coach for ONE GAME. I hope to see him continue that level of play because I am a Browns fan not a Watson fan.

All I am saying is that Watson has shown improvement from the start of the season and it LOOKS like Monken is doing some fine coaching for Watson because he is transforming before my eyes. He IS making faster decisions. He IS more confident. He IS far happier. He IS making better throws. I just hope he continues that against Pittsburg who is an actually decent team and will sack him several times.

As a side note, it might actually be the offensive line is starting to click. They are a group of guys who are playing together for the first time. It takes time to build chemistry for an offensive line. So MAYBE, just MAYBE we have several factors all coming together to improve the team compared to the start of the year. Either way, I am rooting for the Browns to win!!!!

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Re: Potential Razorthorns 10/30/26 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by mgh888

Originally Posted by Razorthorns

He was making much faster decisions. Anyone who pays attention to QBs can easily see that. For a QB to make decisions that fast means he knew where he wanted to go with the ball before he snapped it

Being sceptical of DW's sudden ability to make faster and better decisions - I'd suggest that predetermining where to throw the ball before the snap and alway throwing that pass will be exploited by good defenses and good coordinators. We've had other QB's who threw the ball based on pre-snap reads and it might have gone well for a game or two (or more) but the NFL catches up quickly. I have less faith in Watson being able to process faster than I do in Monken creating cleaner receiving targets.

Does anyone remember at least a couple - maybe more - articles and analysis about Stefanski's offense and breaking down plays highlighting what little separation the CLE receivers had from other CLE receivers ... we aren't talking about the separation the receiver had from a defender... we're talking how bunched up and close to one another the CLE QB's targets were. Other than a slant play where the inside receiver might look to clear out space for the slant, I don't remember seeing many plays where the WR's or TE are stacked together with Monken. To be fair - it's something I haven't been watching for, I only just thought of that angle. But if my memory is working I think that may be one of the distinct differentiators in KS and Monken's offense. I also hadn't thought about it - but I do think Watson may have less reading to do and might be working one part of the field until a play breaks down and then he improvs. . . . I'll watch for both facets on Sunday (and maybe be proven wrong!)

I think it's normal to be skeptical of WHY he was suddenly making much faster throws. I am going to say from my perspective that it's impossible to make decisions that fast unless you read the defense and was looking for a certain trigger sign that tells you who you plan to throw the ball to. He obviously threw into coverage several times but trusted his receiver to fight and catch the ball. That will definitely cause some problems against a better team. The real question is if that game was just a fluke or has Monken woken something up in Watson through good coaching. I honestly don't know. I just know it was the first time he played with confidence and purpose in this throws.

Part of that is that Kevin is well known as a control freak as a play caller. He wanted QBs to do exactly what he called and not deviate. It's one of the reason Baker hated him so much. It's also one of the reasons our QBs didn't do well because they became scared to make mistakes. Monken is more a process type guy. He wants players to follow a process and then be bold. Monken also doesn't beat a QB over the head with their mistakes and just go through the process to hammer down the process better. I am a HUGE fan of Monken for this. Teach a QB how to make decisions and then let them make them. I can't stand Watson as a person but he is really getting better as a QB in every game. If he keeps up like this he is going to get resigned.

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Re: QB Dillon Gabriel Activated from IR FATE 10/30/26 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Razorthorns

Gabriel was doing plenty of it while hiding behind his girl to do it.

Yo, now she's cookin' team meals, bruh. Forgive and forget!

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Re: QB Dillon Gabriel Activated from IR Razorthorns 10/30/26 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life

monken is big on a QB being able to function the offense ... alignment, timing, communicating, etc ... I'd venture to guess that Gabriel exhibits those traits better than Sanders and Green right now

Dillion is a good game manager but he can't throw the ball downfield. He is too scared to make mistakes so it turns him too quickly to checkdowns because he is scared of getting hit. I actually think Kevin was a bad QB coach after watching all the QB digress under him. Dillon was far better in college than he has been for the Browns and I blame Kevin and his tendency to be a control freak over QBs.

I think Watson is finally recovering due to Monken loosening him up and letting him rip the ball. Can the same happen for Dillon? Maybe. I know in college DIllon was a far better decision maker than Sanders but Sanders had much better arm talent. Who knows.

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Re: QB Dillon Gabriel Activated from IR Razorthorns 10/30/26 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by PitDAWG

After being booed by the home crowd, Watson told reporters that the treatment felt personal rather than being purely about his on-field play. This is while he was playing like crap.

And you claim Gabriel is a whiny brat?

Gabriel was doing plenty of it while hiding behind his girl to do it. So yeah, I don't like his personality. I don't like Watson's personality either but at least he can throw downfield.

I don't think we have any great QBs on this team and I don't think there is one worth drafting either. It is what it is. when I asked which QB YOU like you only said you don't know. It's not my fault you don't have anyone you like either.

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Re: Jeremiah Smith Bandwagon Razorthorns 10/30/26 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by bonefish

I have to disagree on KC.

IMO he is a dynamic player with short area quickness that he uses to create separation. Once he catches the ball he is a threat to take off.

Monken is doing a good job of utilizing his strength and that is getting him the ball in space. He is a YAC guy with his open field ability.

I believe he will play a big part in the Browns success for years to come.

Off the line he is hard to cover. He can be counted on to be open when they need that five yard gain for a first down or near the goal line.

He is a rookie and it takes some time for the chemistry to develop with a quarterback.

IMO as each week passes he will become more involved.

I agree with you buddy. He needs a fast decision maker to hit him in the right timing window though for his skill set to shine. Watson did that this last game so I am hoping he can keep it up. Otherwise KC just gets swallowed after the adjust after his move to get open. Honestly both our rookie WRs are playing far beyond what is to be expected from rookies. I'm not hating on KC. I like the kid. It's just I think he would shine a lot more as a pure slot receiver which Monken LOVES to use aka Jay Flowers. I think with Smith and Boston as the number 1 and 2 KC would be so hard to cover. Any QB we have is going to look like a stud with that kind of wr line up.

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Re: Jeremiah Smith Bandwagon Razorthorns 10/30/26 05:59 PM

That's kind of the point. There isn't going to be some great QB we draft that will be ready to play right away and no promise that they will be better than what we already have. The NFL is going into a dark ages of QB play due to the poor development at the college level. So let's not waste picks on a QB who isn't going to be much of an improvement over Sanders who is being coached up my Monken. Plus Green is also being devolved by Monkien and I actually feel Green has a LOT of potential.

Now, if the Browns can't land Smith I won't hate them for it. He might well be too expensive to trade up for. I honestly think he will end up with the TItans and I will hate every second of it.

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Re: Jeremiah Smith Bandwagon Homewood Dog 10/30/26 04:38 PM

IMO, you have to draft a QB that has the physical tools to play in the NFL and also shows at least some cerebral ability to play at the next level. Yes. most College QB's aren't ready for the NFL because their coaches don't have to do that. They're trying to win at the College level. That's their job and let's face it, a lot of college coaches don't know how to coach at the NFL level.

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Re: Defeated presidential candidate Flávio Bolsonaro and his family land in Miami after fleeing Brazil PitDAWG 10/30/26 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by Day of the Dawg

Originally Posted by mgh888

Not a fan of quoting rando idiots for any reason. Whether they are idiots on the left or right.

As for making disgusting untrue comments about an entire religion or group of people.... It is the definition of racism.

Did I hurt your feelings with the truth!!!

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Re: Defeated presidential candidate Flávio Bolsonaro and his family land in Miami after fleeing Brazil Day of the Dawg 10/30/26 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by mgh888

Originally Posted by Day of the Dawg

Originally Posted by mgh888

Did I hurt your feelings with the truth!!!

No. You have no power over me or anyone else dummy. But you are a racist sick little puppy. And after that statement I can say it factually and loudly whenever I want.

Name calling!!!! So sophisticated of you! You get your little bleeding-heart feelings all hurt because someone calls out evil in our world. I am not a progressive that accepts evil and will call it out when I see it.

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Re: Defeated presidential candidate Flávio Bolsonaro and his family land in Miami after fleeing Brazil mgh888 10/30/26 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by Day of the Dawg

Originally Posted by mgh888

Did I hurt your feelings with the truth!!!

No. You have no power over me or anyone else dummy. But you are a racist sick little puppy. And after that statement I can say it factually and loudly whenever I want.

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Re: Defeated presidential candidate Flávio Bolsonaro and his family land in Miami after fleeing Brazil Day of the Dawg 10/30/26 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by mgh888

Did I hurt your feelings with the truth!!!

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Re: Defeated presidential candidate Flávio Bolsonaro and his family land in Miami after fleeing Brazil PitDAWG 10/30/26 04:10 PM

This is what it looks like when the gullible take things as their names present them to be instead of what they are.

I am a Christian that does not believe this nation should be controlled strictly according to my religious beliefs. I'm a Christian who does not believe the laws in this country should inflict my religious beliefs on others. I'm a Christian who does not believe an entire religion such as Muslims are all evil based on the most extreme portion of their religion. If I thought in those terms I would feel the same way about Christians and I do not.

I'm a Christian that believes this country is ruled by the constitution and not my religion. I'm not "your kind of Christian".

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Re: Defeated presidential candidate Flávio Bolsonaro and his family land in Miami after fleeing Brazil Day of the Dawg 10/30/26 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by PitDAWG

That helps explain a lot........

Again, I love Christ and I love my Country. I have no idea if those in your videos do or not. Maybe they need a different term but a Christian who loves their Country is not a bad thing. It is the basis this Country was founded on.

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