DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Indians 2015

Maybe with Bourne, Shwisher, AND Shapiro leaving, it's put this team over the top!

Everyone keeps saying this... but its not as bad as it sounds when you look at it. There are essentially 2 teams that have a wide enough gap that if they "just keep winning" then it'll be tough. But 1 of those teams we play 7 more times (Twins). Rangers are the team we are trying to catch. The other 2 are .5 game ahead of us. It's def doable... I'm glad they're playing good and this should be a fun last month of baseball left. That was a big boy win last night. Gonna need a lot more of those this month. Will they ... IDK. But, enjoy the now..

quote by DCDawg above:

"They are also trailing about 4 teams. If you have to gain on 1 team with a 5 game lead it's easier than skipping over 4 teams, some of them are bound to keep winning."

Very astute point.

It makes the "Wild Card Standings" enticingly deceptive.

I took the little girl to today's game. Good win. Trevor had a rough 2nd inning but settled down after. Sale was solid too, but gave up 3 solo shots.

Indians now 4.5 games out of the 2nd wildcard spot. Texas plays Seattle tonight at 6:40

not sure if anyone has been watching, and judging by the attendance you haven't..lol, but the indians have managed to string a few wins together

We're still 5 games back in the wildcard hunt, but we have passed a few teams recently. We would still need to stay red hot and hope for lots of help. With that being said, it ain't over yet.

4 games back now. Let's keep it rolling!

I think a lot of people have forgotten that it's not over yet

I consider this season a victory by getting rid of BroHio, and broken bourn.

I get to watch a rare Indians game tonight on FS1.

(non-Red Sox, non-Yankee game)

Tigers @ Indians 7 pm EST

You know if the Indians beat Verlander tonight and then tomorrow, the doublheader...

There will be people at S.N.E.B.B. tomorrow watching the Indians on their whatever device during the Browns game. I'm usually able to glom a seat nearby.

Figures. Detroit at Cleveland game is in a rain delay. And it's raining steady.

Indians win game 1 of a doubleheader to get back to .500 .... and move to only 3.5 games out of the wildcard.

We pretty much need to win out if we want to have a fighting chance.

This is insane.

Well, the Featherheads were a .500 team for about 3 hours yesterday, but Trevor Bauer - no relation to Jack - gagged on his start in the nightcap. We're 70-71, 4-1/2 out of the 2nd wildcard. They probably need to win at least 16-17 out of the remaining 21 games to get in. It could be done with guys like Kluber, Carrasco, and Salazar anchoring your staff, but it becomes very iffy when you need to depend on quality starts from Bauer or Anderson or Tomlin every 5th day.

What was really frustrating about game 2 is that they could have blown the thing open in the first inning! Wolf had like 50 pitches in that inning alone and we only scored 2 runs. We got into the same jam, but Bauer served up batting practice when they had the bases juiced. We needed that win badly

Yeah, that loss hurt, especially when you can see that the Tigers have pretty much packed it in for the year. But when you're constantly down in the count, like Bauer is, and you have to throw get-me-over fastballs, major leaguers are going to tee off. I read once that Bauer has a repertoire of something like 12 different pitches that he likes to draw from during a game. I think Tito needs to sit him down and tell him what he's throwing - four pitches: 2-seam fastball, 4-seam fastball, curve, and change-up - and nothing else, unless he likes the idea of returning to AAA meal money.

Nice win for Carrasco last night; he's now 13-10. Indians are 71-71, still 4-1/2 back of Texas, Minn, LA for the wild card. Of the 20 remaining games, 14 are at home. We have 7 games left with Minn, 6 with KC, 3 with Chicago, 3 with Boston, and 1 makeup game with Detroit that will only be played if it affects final standings. It could happen, but it seems unlikely (to me) that we could win 15-16 of the final 20 that I think we'll need to win the wild card. But at least we're still playing meaningful games on September 15, which is a lot more than I expected.

Like what the infusion of youth did for the team .. Would like to see the FO step up to the plate and finally get us a power right handed bat in the off season .. We have some pitching that could be used as bait !

Yeah, but you know what they say about pitching ... when you think you have enough pitching, you still need more pitching. I'd like to see them dangle Santana and a couple prospects to try and come up with a strong RH bat to play 1B next year.

Not a big Bauer fan myself .. Would package him with Santana , Shaw , McAlister or the likes and get my BAT !

Yes, trade Santana (one of the teams best hitters) for a bat.

Santana is not one of the team's best hitters.

Right. He had the best OBP in the league a month or two ago. That was more his walks, not his hitting. That's good but where he's batting in the order, we need him to drive in runs, not simply draw walks.

That is not the right thinking. Walks are just as valuable as singles.

Not when you are batting cleanup. He needs to drive the guys in that get on base which he has not been doing this year.

^This. Complete the purge of ineptitude and bring in a bat.

You want to bat him 7/8/9 ok but not clean up and that is were they keep him !

Not with a runner on 2nd or 3rd and 2 outs. Gotta get those guys home, and a walk just does not get that done.

Santana's job is to be productive. He wouldn't be as productive if he tried to swing at pitches off the plate that he wouldn't normally swing at. It is not his fault that the Indians don't score more runs, he is part of the solution.

This is the Joey Votto conundrum. Don't mess with a good thing.

He doesn't even crack the top ten.

As a cleanup hitter his job is to get hits, not walk. If he were batting, as water referred to above, 7/8/9 then the walks are great. We need a bat to hit in the cleanup position. I like Santana, always have, and love the amount of walks he draws - but as a cleanup hitter he leaves a lot to be desired IMO.

How is Santana's fault that his manager hits him in the wrong place in the order?

It's not his fault, but he is the best option we have unfortunately which is why people are OK with trading him. Like I said, I like Santana and do like his OBP - I'm not sure who else we would put at cleanup, which is kind of the point we are making where it would be OK to trade him to try and get someone who CAN bat cleanup.

If we can keep him and move him elsewhere in the lineup, fine. But IMO he is one of the players that can be traded.

I would immediately put him behind Kipnis, Brantley, Lindor, and probably even Chisenhall. Almonte is hitting better than Santana.

Chris Johnson has hit better than he did with Atlanta thus far in limited duty. Ryan Raburn has also hit better than Santana.

When you look at things like hitting with RISP, hitting with RISP and 2 outs, hitting with the bases loaded, hitting with runners on, and so on. Santana falls down the list of hitters as well.

I would put him probably 5th, 6th or even 7th on the team as far as hitting, definitely behind Kipnis, Lindor, Chisenhall, and Brantley, and maybe even behind Raburn, (even though he is only hitting lefties) and Almonte.

No front office evaluates players with the statistics you just cited.

Scoring runs and driving in runs as a hitter are vital.

Yes. The stats you just cited do not accurately show how good a player is at doing either of those things.

IMO, estimations of Santana's value can't only be based on where he hits in the order, but also that he is a first baseman. You need run production from 1B, not just OBP. Its not like he can play anywhere else. Even if you DH him, I think the same rule about production vs OBP applies.

Right. But just as a hitter, he is very good. When considering position, he needs to have more power, but that doesn't mean he should start swinging at balls out of the strike zone. If he were a DH he would be a more valuable player because his defense wouldn't bring him down.

The bottomline is this; Santana walking too much is not part of the problem. The problem is the team has no real power threats in the lineup.