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Quote:
but I do not believe that the joining of 2 men, or 2 women, is a marriage. That is my belief. You can, and do disagree. That's fine. Some agree with my opinion. Some agree with your opinion. The trend certainly seems to be towards your opinion, but that does not change my belief
This is what I don't get.. Why do you care what two other people are doing?
How does two people you don't know, or even do know, getting married, effect your life?
Does two people getting married make your marriage seem less valuable?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Legend
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Do you realize what you're essentially saying is "I should be free to feel how I want to...and everyone else should adapt their lives to reflect my beliefs...and I'd even throw them a bone and invent some segregated consolation prize for them. If they were more realistic, they'd accept that and be happy."
Are we arguing over the notion of equality or the word we use to describe it? Because regardless of what word is used to describe the union, they are still free to tell all of their friends and everybody else that they are married and there really isn't anything anybody can do to stop it.
yebat' Putin
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I think that marriage has already been devalued by the actions of those who marry only to throw their marriages away by cheating, lying, and generally disrespecting their spouses. I think that marriage has already been devalued by those who enter into a marriage with some unrealistic expectation of how easy it is to maintain and grow within a marriage. That has nothing to do with my opinion on this.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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My question was basically, you don't agree that two people of the same sex should be able to get married.
Why do you care if two other people get married? Does it offend you? How does it effect you?
The basis I see most people have against it is for religious reasons, I would say marriage is a legal document and has nothing to do with religion.
If two gay christians wanna get married, and can, then obviously that's "gods plan" right?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Do you realize what you're essentially saying is "I should be free to feel how I want to...and everyone else should adapt their lives to reflect my beliefs...and I'd even throw them a bone and invent some segregated consolation prize for them. If they were more realistic, they'd accept that and be happy."
Are we arguing over the notion of equality or the word we use to describe it? Because regardless of what word is used to describe the union, they are still free to tell all of their friends and everybody else that they are married and there really isn't anything anybody can do to stop it.
Why not call it what it is - marriage - and be done with it?
I ask the same question every time:
If gay marriage is banned to appease the religious, does it effect the lives of those who aren't religious?
(Answer: yes)
If gay marriage is legal, does it effect the lives of the religious who oppose it on moral grounds?
(Answer: no)
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I believe that marriage is a union of one man and one woman. Part of my belief is based on my religious beliefs. It affects me by affecting the world in which I live.
As far as things being God's plan ...... God also gave us free will. he does not micro-manage our lives. He knows everything that ever has, and ever will happen, and frankly it is impossible for me to completely understand how omniscience would work. It is beyond my comprehension. However, my faith says that God gave us all the free will to make our own choices and decision. He guides the works in general terms, but I think that he allows us all the choice as far as what part to play. It is entirely possible that God's plan required a "Hitler", but not necessarily the one that rose to power in Germany. Maybe other people before Hitler has similar thoughts and ambitions, but either refused to take those horrific steps that Hitler took ..... or were afraid that they would fail. Satan is one of God's creations, and he plays a part in the workings of the world. It is very possible that one man was tempted with the lure of power and hatred that ultimately lured Hitler to power, and decided not to take that path, while Hitler did. Perhaps Schultz could have been the name we associate with Nazi Germany if another man, practicing his free will, had made a different decision.
People talk about "God's plan", but I think that it is a really difficult subject to ever completely understand. In the simplest terms, my belief is that this world is to prepare us to face God's judgement. Anything other than a completely sin free life offends God. However He gave us an "out" in the form of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. I believe that God's plan is to save as many of us as will come to Him of our own free will. However, we must make that decision, and come to Him, ask forgiveness for our sins, and have faith that the Lord forgives us, and has already taken the punishment for our sins for us.This is not a license to continue to sin though. The Bible does not say "Well Chris, because you believe in Jesus, and have repented your sins, you can do anything you want to do ... giving into lust and all other desires as you wish." No, the Bible tells me to try and live as Jesus directed us.I will fail. I will sin. However there is a difference between falling into sin, and wallowing in sin. There is a difference between asking forgiveness and trying to stop sinful behaviors, and asking forgiveness and continuing to live in that sinful state. For example, how honest and repentant would I be if asked God to forgive my sin od adultery ......... and I went on having sex with a married woman, for example?
As far as marriage, I think that we should try to strengthen marriage according to its traditional standards. Marriage should be a lifelong commitment between a man and a woman, to live together in a single union , in love, respect, and honor for one another. Like it or not, there has long been a religious aspect to marriage. There is a reason why so many marriages occur in churches, and/or are conducted by a member of the clergy. I have read that 80% or so of all marriages take place in churches or synagogues. . Why would this be the case if there is not a generally accepted religious aspect? Sure a church is a picturesque setting ....... but there are tons of other areas in which a wedding could take place. There are parks that could accommodate a wedding ...... and many other beautiful settings that wold make for a beautiful background. Why do so many weddings occur in churches ... conducted by a pastor, priest, or minister then?
I accept that this is not an easy matter to resolve, and no matter which way it eventually winds up being resolved, there will be people on either side who will feel that a morally wrong decision was made.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Quote:
If two gay christians wanna get married, and can, then obviously that's "gods plan" right?
Not everything a Christian says or does is in keeping with God's plan...
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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I ask the same question every time:
If gay marriage is banned to appease the religious, does it effect the lives of those who aren't religious?
(Answer: yes)
If gay marriage is legal, does it effect the lives of the religious who oppose it on moral grounds?
(Answer: no)
If you are an atheist at a high school graduation and the principal says a little prayer, does that affect you?
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Quote:
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I ask the same question every time:
If gay marriage is banned to appease the religious, does it effect the lives of those who aren't religious?
(Answer: yes)
If gay marriage is legal, does it effect the lives of the religious who oppose it on moral grounds?
(Answer: no)
If you are an atheist at a high school graduation and the principal says a little prayer, does that affect you?
No. We prayed before ever mission last year, I bowed my head out of respect for my SFC giving it.
I'm not religiouw, but I'm also not atheist. And find both extremes unbearable.
However saying a prayer during somethng isn't the same thing as not letting two people have the same rights as others. Which to me is what it boils down to.
As long as there's 24 hour drive thru chapels, and shows like "the bachelor" or "bridezilla" YTowns dream of bringing morals back to marriage IMO is slim to none..
So saying two people wanting to get married is immoral just because they have the same plumbing to me will never be ok... but that's me. And this is where the discussion ends basically.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Legend
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I ask the same question every time:
If gay marriage is banned to appease the religious, does it effect the lives of those who aren't religious?
(Answer: yes)
If gay marriage is legal, does it effect the lives of the religious who oppose it on moral grounds?
(Answer: no)
If you are an atheist at a high school graduation and the principal says a little prayer, does that affect you?
Wouldn't bother me at all.
If it's a public school, it's not exactly appropriate, but I wouldn't care.
Now what if he pulled out a little carpet and started praying to Allah? 
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Legend
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I'll answer this one first.. Quote:
Now what if he pulled out a little carpet and started praying to Allah?
If he was in 98% of the country which is predominantly Christian it would seem extremely odd to me but I could sit through it respectfully..
Now back to the topic..
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Wouldn't bother me at all.
If it's a public school, it's not exactly appropriate, but I wouldn't care.
You wouldn't but you're smart enough to know that a lot of people would and have complained and gone to court to get it stopped... and why? because they don't want to have to see it or be exposed to it or have their children exposed to it... even though 99% of the people in attendance have no problem with it and it doesn't hurt you one bit..... but it's not inline with one persons belief system they can get it stopped and they are largely viewed as champions of social justice for putting an end to this indecent practice of subjecting people to sitting through a 30 second prayer...
But if a Christian doesn't want to watch or have their kids exposed to gay marriage and gay guys kissing on television because it is not in line with their belief system they are treated as stone age morons who need to suck it up and deal with it because.. well because the masses say it's ok.
I personally have no objection to gay marriage, not the laws, or the use of the word.. but I do get tired of watching those who do have issues with it being treated like morons by the very same people who act like their children are going to burst into flames if they have to hear the name of God mentioned at a ceremony...
yebat' Putin
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I see what you're saying, but there's a little bit of apples-oranges going on. For instance, if you have the Christian prayer to open the ceremony, then sooner or later you're going to have a Muslim family demand that they get their prayer in, and then the Jewish family, and so on. Eventually, you either need to have a long string of prayers, or none at all. And with an established separation of church and state, the answer seems pretty clear. Quote:
But if a Christian doesn't want to watch or have their kids exposed to gay marriage and gay guys kissing on television because it is not in line with their belief system
I do find it interesting/humorous that the type of person who complains about having to see gays kissing on TV because it offends them are almost always the ones who turn around and sneer at the idea of being 'P.C'.
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I personally have no objection to gay marriage, not the laws, or the use of the word.. but I do get tired of watching those who do have issues with it being treated like morons by the very same people who act like their children are going to burst into flames if they have to hear the name of God mentioned at a ceremony...
As I said, I wouldn't/don't care about little public prayers like that, but there is at least some semblance of logic and reason behind issues of church-and-state. There is no logic or reason behind homosexuality being a moral abomination. It comes from a 2,000+ year old text where animals talk and a man is killed and rises from the dead.
I'm not saying someone can't have their faith, but don't expect it to become a part of societal law, which should be based in logic and reason.
With that said, I do have reservations with the backlash regarding the anti-gay crowd, but I also can't say they didn't have it coming, to a degree. They didn't seem to have a problem shoving their beliefs down others' throats when they were in the majority. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, they want to cry foul?
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VERY good article..I find it odd that the same people that get "offended" by Tebow taking ONE knee don't seem to see the issue with the public knowledge of Sams taking BOTH of his... Ignorance is bliss in this case 
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Legend
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VERY good article..I find it odd that the same people that get "offended" by Tebow taking ONE knee don't seem to see the issue with the public knowledge of Sams taking BOTH of his...
Who got "offended" by Tebow being religious?
Most people just got "tired" of hearing it, all the time. I don't care if you're religious, and I don't really need to hear you thank the god every other sentence because you threw a touchdown..
And the fact that you seem to think there is an "issue" with someone knowing someone is gay is a whole other thing..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I don't think being offended by Tebow's faith was all that prevalent, but there were a lot of people out there who held animosity towards him because of it.
It's sad that someone's faith or sexual orientation or political views often makes them a poster boy or representation for everything right and/or wrong with those institutions.
Tim Tebow is probably one of the better human beings I've read about, on paper, anyway.
But a lot of people don't like religion/Christianity, so in turn they didn't like him.
Same goes with Sam.
It's a big part of why we're so divided. Person X is labeled and categorized simply because of one trait, and everyone assumes what they feel or believe from one simple part of them.
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Dawg Talker
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VERY good article..I find it odd that the same people that get "offended" by Tebow taking ONE knee don't seem to see the issue with the public knowledge of Sams taking BOTH of his...
Who got "offended" by Tebow being religious?
Most people just got "tired" of hearing it, all the time. I don't care if you're religious, and I don't really need to hear you thank the god every other sentence because you threw a touchdown..
And the fact that you seem to think there is an "issue" with someone knowing someone is gay is a whole other thing..
Prayer vs. sexual preference... Hmmm seems to be two opposite extremes.. I do believe the title of the thread is in regard to a negative tweet about "the kiss"resulting in a fine.. I don't recall the NFL or any other team for that matter being fined, tarred or feathered for their negative comments about Tebow's faith and the way he chooses to express it.. But my goodness you get ESPN to replay over and over this passionate whisker filled lip lock of a 7th rd irrelevant Special Teamer and should you dare be disgusted you are fined, suspended and sent to sensitivity training?!?
And another thing, you know the NFL has sent people to Rams training camp to observe his environment? He has taken a sport and made it about HIS CHOICE OFF THE FIELD.. I remember during the rookie hazing how they made a mockery of Tebow's haircut which was one that looked like a "friar." I wonder if we will see Sam get paraded out in full drag for his hazing..
CLEARLY you seem to have missed the point..
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Legend
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7th rd irrelevant Special Teamer
SEC Defensive player of the year.
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He has taken a sport and made it about HIS CHOICE OFF THE FIELD..
I'm going to ignore the "choice" comment cause I don't even really want to get into that discussion again.
However, He chose to come out, because someone was going to do it some day, the fact that he did, just means later down the road no one will care if someones gay, and that's the point, no one should.. But until someone does it, itll always be a thing..
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CLEARLY you seem to have missed the point..
What "negative" comments were there about Tebow? Seriously, I'm asking, the only thing I ever really heard was that people didn't care and didn't wanna hear about it.. No one said it was "horrible" that he was drafted (besides the fact that he was overdrafted)
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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