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If you haven't seen his comments: Pettine's Comments Is it a smoke screen or his actual intent? I'm guessing the latter. Consistent with his "Ground and Pound" philosophy and focus on Defense. If so, that suggests he may ride Hoyer as the guy and take a "second tier guy" e.g. McCarron. That strategy also dictates adding OLine and Defense as priorities...and maybe adding a bruiser RB (e.g. Carlos Hyde) to hedge the bet with Ben Tate.
I vow to smack everyone who says the importance of the running back is diminished in the NFL today.
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Good!
Lets go.
Give me Tre Mason then.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Legend
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Probably and wisely so his intentions not for draft investments but in the team for the 2014 season. Hoyer is the guy right now, build around that. As a head coach he has a duty to plan 100% for 2014. Rookie QBs aren't much in that plan whether we get one at 4 or later if Hoyer is more advanced and ready for the 2014 season...so be it. My take on his open thought process there.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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1st String
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Then why did Farmer employ Kyle Shanahan? Why not simply take on an unknown position coach and elevate him to OC in the natural progression of NFL coaching ladders?
Shanahan was brought in here to fix the offense, plain and simple. I don't care what the perceived thought is of Pettine's offensive philosophy. The day Shanahan was named offensive coordinator, he became the offensive focus/philosophy you need to pay attention to.
Shanahan's history?
In 2007 as QB coach for Texans OC Mike Sherman (another QB guy), they recognized and spent (2) 2nd round draft picks along with giving up #8 to move back to #10 overall (equivelant of a 4th round pick) or roughly the collective of a mid 20 overall draft pick in value for Matt Schaub. Shanahan then turned him into a top five QB 3 years into his tenure as OC, having a better season than Peyton Manning, Brett Favre and Tom Brady... Playoffs was the result
In 2012, in his 3rd season as Redskins OC, his influence caused the team to move up to #2 overall to select Robert Griffin III, giving up #6 overall and #39 overall in 2012, 2013 1st round (#22 overall), 2014 1st round (#2 overall), All he did with that pick was turn RGIII into a top 5 QB overall, but based almost as much as his rushing as his passing...Playoffs was the result
So, to discuss the offensive strategy going forward, I think it more prudent to look at Shanahan than Pettine...imho
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I think you are reading way to much into this. Here is what he said: Quote:
From the quarterback standpoint, if you don’t feel you have the guy that you feel like is that guy, or one of the top two or three in the league, you have to model it differently,” Pettine said.
He went on to talk about Russell and how he wasn't a top pick in the draft but they put a top D together and a running game.
What I get is that he's saying if you don't have "THAT GUY", then you have to find another way to win.
That sounds like playing to your players strengths
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
“Differently” would be the Seattle Seahawks, who overwhelmed the Denver Broncos in Super Bowl XXVIII without needing anything more than a mostly efficient performance from quarterback Russell Wilson, who was a third-round draft pick. As they did all season, the Seahawks relied on the NFL’s top-ranked defense and on the explosive running of Marshawn Lynch to take home the Lombardi Trophy.
“And that,” Pettine said, “minimizes the impact of that (quarterback) position.”
I think Pettine, and too many other people, do not recognize just how good Wilson is. Great, we don't need a qb. It's never once been an issue for us. We've played very well w/out good QB play. Why change things up now?
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It's actually pretty difficult to predict what the front office wants to do "exactly" with the top pick, let alone any type of pick for QB. They've done a good job disguising true intent, or at least for me anyway...
We'll get a QB, first round, second round, third round... at some round ha ha ha!
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Quote:
Quote:
“Differently” would be the Seattle Seahawks, who overwhelmed the Denver Broncos in Super Bowl XXVIII without needing anything more than a mostly efficient performance from quarterback Russell Wilson, who was a third-round draft pick. As they did all season, the Seahawks relied on the NFL’s top-ranked defense and on the explosive running of Marshawn Lynch to take home the Lombardi Trophy.
“And that,” Pettine said, “minimizes the impact of that (quarterback) position.”
I think Pettine, and too many other people, do not recognize just how good Wilson is. Great, we don't need a qb. It's never once been an issue for us. We've played very well w/out good QB play. Why change things up now?
I don't think Pettine thinks that a QB isn't important, I think (maybe assume) that what he's thinking is, if we don't have "THAT GUY", we gotta win another way and I don't find much wrong with that.
I mean, think about it,, if you have a GREAT QB is capable of carrying the team on his back and your winning and all of a sudden, he goes down for the season, do you throw in the towel? Of course not, you have to find another way to win.
That's what I'm taking from it. But again, I could just be reading into it too much.. Just seems like it to me.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
It's actually pretty difficult to predict what the front office wants to do "exactly" with the top pick, let alone any type of pick for QB. They've done a good job disguising true intent, or at least for me anyway...
We'll get a QB, first round, second round, third round... at some round ha ha ha!
They have thrown up a veil of secrecy like none I've seen before.. These guys are better than Belichick and keeping everyone guessing LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
It's actually pretty difficult to predict what the front office wants to do "exactly" with the top pick, let alone any type of pick for QB. They've done a good job disguising true intent, or at least for me anyway...
We'll get a QB, first round, second round, third round... at some round ha ha ha!
They have thrown up a veil of secrecy like none I've seen before.. These guys are better than Belichick and keeping everyone guessing LOL
He spoke words but he really didn't say anything
Joe Thomas #73
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Shanahan was brought in here to fix the offense, plain and simple.
Agree with this
Quote:
his influence caused the team to move up to #2 overall to select Robert Griffin III, giving up #6 overall and #39 overall in 2012, 2013 1st round (#22 overall), 2014 1st round (#2 overall),
Don't agree with this. I think this pick was the Owner and was forced upon both coach & Kyle. I really don't think Kyle wants another head case QB and I think he will have input into who the Browns choose and when they choose.
We'll find out at the draft.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Quote:
Quote:
“Differently” would be the Seattle Seahawks, who overwhelmed the Denver Broncos in Super Bowl XXVIII without needing anything more than a mostly efficient performance from quarterback Russell Wilson, who was a third-round draft pick. As they did all season, the Seahawks relied on the NFL’s top-ranked defense and on the explosive running of Marshawn Lynch to take home the Lombardi Trophy.
“And that,” Pettine said, “minimizes the impact of that (quarterback) position.”
I think Pettine, and too many other people, do not recognize just how good Wilson is. Great, we don't need a qb. It's never once been an issue for us. We've played very well w/out good QB play. Why change things up now?
It IS a point nontheless, as we lost more games than in 2012 with much better overall QB play in 2013. JAX, CHI and NE losses come to mind. We lost those games because we had no NFL caliber RB, and a combo of no pass rush and bad coverage. Actually, the QB might have been one of the better Browns players on those days.
I do agree with you that we need a QB. It is by far our no1 need, no doubt, but he absolutely makes an argument
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Good post ID.
I think Pettine's comments are more generic in nature. More along the lines of if you don't have "The" guy and have a "Decent" guy....the types of things you have to do to make him a success.
Kind of like what Parcells did with Phil Simms. Phil was a good solid QB....and Hoyer might be that. Give him a good run game, decent receivers and a D that can win games and you go from there. You don't need to make the QB the focus of the O or team. You just need a compenent guy in there with parts around him. Flacco would be a good example as is Simms. Those teams won more with the D.....but the D can't be expected to throw shutouts every week. Let the O score a couple of TDs and kick 3 fieldgoals and take your chances.
The Browns D whitherd many games last year, but they also flashed some ability. If any of you play fantasy football, I think the Browns D/ST is going to be a pretty good play this year. We always hear about drafting O players, but I don't think the D is far from winning 6-7 games mostly on their own.
I hope we don't ignore it in the draft. With a couple of nice additions, we might edge towards elite.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
Kind of like what Parcells did with Phil Simms. Phil was a good solid QB....and Hoyer might be that. Give him a good run game, decent receivers and a D that can win games and you go from there. You don't need to make the QB the focus of the O or team. You just need a compenent guy in there with parts around him. Flacco would be a good example as is Simms. Those teams won more with the D.....but the D can't be expected to throw shutouts every week. Let the O score a couple of TDs and kick 3 fieldgoals and take your chances.
Good post, although I do obviously prefer an elite QB. 
I've thought about all the NFL teams Pettine has been involved with all the way back to the Ravens, and, come to think of it, every one of those teams followed the model you speak of (Baltimore, NYJ, and Buffalo). The concern is that those teams were susceptible to being completely dragged down once their decent QB faltered. They didn't have that every-season QB reliance that teams like Green Bay, Denver/Indy, NE, NO, etc. had.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Quote:
I think Pettine's comments are more generic in nature.
I hope you guys are right. I am not so sure. I am not dissing the new guys, but I have some doubts.
I think most of you hated the previous regime so bad that you are "wishing" the new guys to be good and that is how you see them. Not necessarily you, Peen.....just a general observation about the board.
I know defensive coaches. I know they think they can win w/defense and no mistakes on offense. That is sometimes true.
I also know offensive coaches. They think they can win by outsmarting their opponents and that is sometimes true.
I prefer a balanced approach. Thus far, Pettine is scaring me a bit w/his comments. So is Farmer. It might all be a smoke screen and I will applaud them if it is. However, if they ignore the QB position and take a shot on a stiff like Mettenberger or McCarron later in the draft................I won't be so forgiving.
People can talk and talk and talk. It's all rhetoric. But, I am convinced that we need a good QB to move forward. Period!
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
It's actually pretty difficult to predict what the front office wants to do "exactly" with the top pick, let alone any type of pick for QB. They've done a good job disguising true intent, or at least for me anyway...
We'll get a QB, first round, second round, third round... at some round ha ha ha!
They have thrown up a veil of secrecy like none I've seen before.. These guys are better than Belichick and keeping everyone guessing LOL
He spoke words but he really didn't say anything
Exactly.. it's almost like speaking in tongues..LOL
Farmer and Pettine (the two main guys talking to the Media) have left little nuggets all over the place. Disinformation at it's finest.
They talk a lot and say almost nothing you can hang your hat on. Bothers me and yet, I like it..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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That's my opinion as well. There is no excuse for not walking away with a long term answer at QB this year. I'm scared to death we are going the Frye/Colt route again and wasting a valuable 2nd/3rd rounder on a guy that will never amount to anything. For every Brady/Wilson there is a 100s of more guys who got drafted mid rounds who busted.
As bad as some want to talk about the bust rate of the 1st round QBs that is still the better statistical approach for success. The hit rate is exponentially higher in round 1 than all of the other rounds by far. If we don't take one at 4 then as tabber said I sure as heck hope we don't waste a valuable pick on one later.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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That is a very astute post and one that is sure to be largely ignored. No way the masses wanna address this one................after all, the new FO can't make a mistake. They replaced the evil Banner and Lombardi. They are perfect and should not be judged.
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I think it has all been smoke to hide their Johny Football Fetish. Last year all i heard was how Haslam loved Johny football wouldnt miss a game. Banner and Lombardi loved Manziel. Then they are gone and in comes Farmer and well Haslam isnt happy with folks leaking information and it is all secretive, yet every media source is hearing we love Carr and Garoppolo.
I think it has all been smoke and Manziel is their guy.
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there is no way Shanny will let us draft Johnny FB
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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He's not wrong.
Outside of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, no QB has been able to turn chicken crap into chicken salad other than them. Hell, look at guys like Aaron Rodgers or Matt Ryan when their TEAM fell apart around them.
I think Pettine's comments are pretty much proven to be true. You should try and minimize the impact of the position. He should feel that way about everyone. It should be an equal load shared by everyone. I know one thing, I'd feel a lot better about a rookie QB if he wasn't asked to throw 40 times a game.
you had a good run Hank.
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~ Legend
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You're forgetting Drew Breese. And I'm not sure when you're referencing Aaron Rodgers either as he was injured for the last part of last season.
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You're forgetting Drew Breese. And I'm not sure when you're referencing Aaron Rodgers either as he was injured for the last part of last season.
Pretty sure his first season as starter *maybe second* his team had one of the worst defenses in the NFL. And his team couldn't do anything about it, despite him putting up huge numbers.
Forgot about Brees. Perfect example. Or really, the 2012 Saints without Sean Peyton.
you had a good run Hank.
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Would remove manning from that list. The colts spent all of their picks on offense and the Broncos had a pretty good team before he got there. Tebow beat the steelers in the playoffs with a less talented team. I dont think any player has been given more talent to work with than Manning.
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Obfuscation at its its finest.
We have no idea what is going on....
Anything said less than a month for the draft has to be viewed in the light of being smokescreen or a masked comment.
Intentionally vague is the best that can be garnered.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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I kinda find it refreshing.
For years, 76 Groza has been a sieve of nasty, unflattering infoleaks. It always struck me as- well, amateur. Bush league. Slightly less than top-shelf professional.
For me, one of the worst was "Go root for Buffalo." I mean, this was the team's Top Brass... giving the national pundits something to yuk it up about for weeks after. A team has enough potential distraction from just everyday NFL life. They shouldn't have to worry that their GM is going to do or say something inane.
I'm actually OK with the trickle of info that has been coming out. It's an indicator (not a guarantee, mind you) that this present bunch is running a tighter ship that many of us are accustomed to.
In my 'Chud fired/I may quit the Brows' rant, I began by comparing the typical Browns off season to a soap opera... always a ton of drama, and none of it related to making the team better.
At this point in the year no news is good news, as far as I'm concerned. I like the fact that along with the cryptic "noninfo" statements, there has been an absence of typical Browns offseason foolishness and political turmoil.
(Well... once you get past the bizarre circumstances in which they all got these jobs, that is...)
We've all seen it an exhausting number of times before: if you have dysfunction at the top, you can't compete on the field. It takes an entire organization to produce a consistent winner.
Man, it's really early in this regime's tenure, but I like how they've presented themselves so far. Next big test is how they draft- and if I'm able to see the reasoning behind the picks they make.
Truth be told, I've found this "pr cat & mouse game" rather entertaining in its own right. Beats the hell outta leaks about infighting, power struggles and general foolishness any day.
.02
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Quote:
That's my opinion as well. There is no excuse for not walking away with a long term answer at QB this year. I'm scared to death we are going the Frye/Colt route again and wasting a valuable 2nd/3rd rounder on a guy that will never amount to anything. For every Brady/Wilson there is a 100s of more guys who got drafted mid rounds who busted.
As bad as some want to talk about the bust rate of the 1st round QBs that is still the better statistical approach for success. The hit rate is exponentially higher in round 1 than all of the other rounds by far. If we don't take one at 4 then as tabber said I sure as heck hope we don't waste a valuable pick on one later.
It's hard to say. The way this draft hype is unfolding it's hard to guage much of anything.
I think the talk of Watkins and OL are smoke. I think we want a QB, but not at #4. I think we want to drop a number of spots and pick up another 2nd.
Then we either take our QB at the new draft position, or select a position player, such as a corner, then trade up from 26 to take our QB target. Who that is I don't know, but from all I gather we have a clear choice.
If I had to guess on a target, Grappolo is the target and we want to get him at around pick #20. Unless something really strange happens, that would be a pretty safe landing spot. At 26 things start to get a little wet.
We have 10 picks. I don't think we will draft 10 players. We are going to trade some of them to move up. I don't think the team wants to head in to camp with 15-17 rookies on the squad. I assume we will sign a few UDFA players.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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.after all, the new FO can't make a mistake. btw...everyone makes mistakes - even you and me
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
I kinda find it refreshing.
For years, 76 Groza has been a sieve of nasty, unflattering infoleaks. It always struck me as- well, amateur. Bush league. Slightly less than top-shelf professional.
Truth be told, I've found this "pr cat & mouse game" rather entertaining in its own right. Beats the hell outta leaks about infighting, power struggles and general foolishness any day.
clem...I agree, it is refreshing to see those in charge of the Browns draft conduct themselves in a business like fashion, minus the silliness of the past.
Concerning Pettine's comments about less emphasis on the QB position in this draft...I wonder if there is a QB in this draft worthy of a top 5 pick.
Over the past month we have seen Bridgewater's value decline and today, Mel Kiper's mock dropped TB out of the first round all together.
I question whether any of the QBs in this draft are worthy of a top 5 or even a top 10 pick.
There are no Andrew Luck or RGIII type QBs in this draft and I would hate to see the Browns waste their #4 pick on a QB if there is a better player available at #4 who is worthy of the #4 pick.
It would not surprise me a bit it the Browns waited until later in the draft to pick a QB.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Quote:
I kinda find it refreshing.
For years, 76 Groza has been a sieve of nasty, unflattering infoleaks. It always struck me as- well, amateur. Bush league. Slightly less than top-shelf professional.
I don't think it's very different. What's different is how some of you are perceiving it.
Perception becomes one's reality much of the time.
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Quote:
Quote:
I kinda find it refreshing.
For years, 76 Groza has been a sieve of nasty, unflattering infoleaks. It always struck me as- well, amateur. Bush league. Slightly less than top-shelf professional.
I don't think it's very different. What's different is how some of you are perceiving it.
Perception becomes one's reality much of the time.
I think the fact that we hear very little that can be attributed to Groza Drive and that we only hear from media types speculating (as they always do) that it not perception but indeed fact...
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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When Lombardi leaked that chud would be fired during the final game there, I think that was the one that really ticked Haslam off. Then he is being hunted by the feds and i think that reinforced the need to keep things in house and amputate the loose lips.
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Quote:
There is no excuse for not walking away with a long term answer at QB this year.
???
No excuse? How about there is no long term answer at QB in this draft? Just because you think there is doesn't make it so. The more I hear about them the more turned off I become. Lets go get some playmakers.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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Legend
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Quote:
When Lombardi leaked that chud would be fired during the final game there, I think that was the one that really ticked Haslam off. Then he is being hunted by the feds and i think that reinforced the need to keep things in house and amputate the loose lips.
At this point, we only THINK that Lombardi leaked all that stuff. Not sure we ever confirmed it. (not that I think it can be confirmed)
But It wouldn't surprise me to find that Haslam had had enough and decided to just clean house..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Mangini was ridiculed for not tipping his hand. Thus, the perception becomes reality comment.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151 |
I feel like the top and bottom of the draft this year with QBs isnt that stark of a contrast as in past years...
I really like Johnny Football, so I'll leave him out of this.
But I feel like the difference between Teddy Bridgewater/Blake Bortles and Mettenberger/Garrapolo/McCarron and Boyd/Shaw/Savage is just not that great.
There's just not that many things that stand out about either of those two that make me think theyre worth a way higher pick than any of the other ones.
I'd love it if we went in with Hoyer, McCarron, Connor Shaw...I think that would be an awesome cadre of QBs. And just dont rush McCarron or Shaw...let them sit back and learn and have no pressure to succeed tomorrow. Let Brian Hoyer shoulder the entire load while Pettine makes his mark.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Man...
McCarron blows.
JMO.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,842 Likes: 158
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,842 Likes: 158 |
Quote:
Mangini was ridiculed for not tipping his hand. Thus, the perception becomes reality comment.
Oh, I wasn't one that picked on him for it. I mean, I'm a fan and I want to know what's going on.. that much was true then, and it's true now.
But I know that if he tells the press, who in turn tells me, he's also telling other teams. So while I wanted to know, I understood keeping things close to the vest.
Still, in the grand scheme of things, Mangini was tight lipped for sure, but compared to these guys, he was a fountain of info LOL
I've never seen a group of people say so much without saying anything..LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,263
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,263 |
Morris/Savage seems like they might be worth a late round pick(s)
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
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I feel like it's really difficult to decide on him...
He was asked to do so little at Bama, we dont really know what he is capable of. The kid lost what...2 games in his career there? He rarely makes mistakes...the only times he's seemed to struggle, is when the scores get up around 45. I mean he played a lot of good games against a lot of good defenses...just not against other great offenses.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 Pettine's comments about less
emphasis on the QB in the draft
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