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Did the Jaguars really make a decision to help themselves?
Or, did they screw us?
It almost seems like they spent a lot of time and energy to screw us.
I dont think the Jags did anything intended to screw us, I think they figured hey what the heck, might as well try, Maybe the Browns wont match, maybe the browns are hoping somebody comes along and over pays him so they can step away and not look like the browns dont want him, maybe somebody will sign him and we wont have to pay him, Who knows, Jags took a shot at getting a Pro Bowl center didnt really cost them alot, wont cost them anything if we match the offer and if we dont they get Mack for atleast 3 years, at only 9mil a season and a pro bowl in the prime of his career, I dont see anything they did intention on screwing us, actually, I think they did us a favor and got this whole thing over with shorter than if we would have had to wait for him to sign a tender...Thanks Jags...
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Ya, that's correct. If he voids the contract then we wouldn't owe him anything for that 3rd year.
Think about if that wasn't the case though. Mack would FOR SURE void the contract, collect the 8 million from us and then sign again for another 8+ million either here or with another team. Thankfully that isn't a real option for Mack though lol.
I don't think that's what I Rouge was saying. He was saying we have no choice on the 3rd year as in if Mack is under performing or is injury ridden the next two seasons where he won't get a big contract out there he can opt to take the third year @ 8mil guaranteed and we have no choice but to keep him.
the 3rd, 4th and last year aren't guaranteed,, how's that a problem?
#GMSTRONG
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so in a nutshell
year 1 $9 mil guaranteed
year 2 $9 milh guiaranteed
year 3 $8 mil guaranteed ( if he stays , his option. if bolts we owe 0)
year 4 $8 mil not guaranteed
year 5 $8 mil not guaranteed.
No trade clause
No signing bonus
we can cut after 3rd year with no cap hit and no dead money.
How many here would have been happy with 5 years and $35 mil with $22 guaranteed and $8 mil signing bonus? I would have.
so we overpaid 1.5 Mil a year but after 3 years we can show him the door ( if we want) with no cap hit. He gets a no trade clause ( was a trade a really wanted?) and gets the third year guaranty.
to me a win for Alex and a push for us... frankly I take it, move on and find me a OG and a CB,
Are you certain about this? I haven't seen anywhere that stated those are all salary figures and there's no signing bonus..
It could easily by like a $10M signing bonus, that would lay it out more like this:
year 1 $9 mil guaranteed, $7M salary, $2M Bonus
year 2 $9 mil guaranteed, $7M salary, $2M Bonus
year 3 $8 mil guaranteed, $6M salary, $2M Bonus ( if he stays , his option. if bolts we owe $6M, which is the remainder of his signing bonus)
year 4 $8 mil not guaranteed. $6M salary, $2M Bonus..not guaranteed, but bonus money would escalate if cut
year 5 $8 mil not guaranteed, $6M salary, $2M Bonus..not guaranteed, but bonus money would escalate if cut
No trade clause
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Oh so the third year is guaranteed if he elects to stay., Ok, NOW i GOT IT..
#GMSTRONG
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Not sure about anything.../ but I have seen nothing that says "signing bonus", in any article , blog or anything else, so everything is speculation
The other items I have seen...
Not sure you are correct about what happens if he opts out... I believe he would forfeit everything that might be owed... again until I read the actual contract . .....
I think your numbers would inflate the guaranteed monies by about $4 mil
Last edited by texaslostdawg; 04/11/14 03:53 PM.
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A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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I'm not sure why we would owe him anything in his contract if he opts out of it. But I can't see anything on the web supporting it or denying it so I'm not positive.
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Ya, that's correct. If he voids the contract then we wouldn't owe him anything for that 3rd year.
Think about if that wasn't the case though. Mack would FOR SURE void the contract, collect the 8 million from us and then sign again for another 8+ million either here or with another team. Thankfully that isn't a real option for Mack though lol.
I don't think that's what I Rouge was saying. He was saying we have no choice on the 3rd year as in if Mack is under performing or is injury ridden the next two seasons where he won't get a big contract out there he can opt to take the third year @ 8mil guaranteed and we have no choice but to keep him.
the 3rd, 4th and last year aren't guaranteed,, how's that a problem?
The 3rd year is a Player Options so it is Guaranteed.
For instance, IF Mack tears an ACL halfway through this season he is on our books. Let's say he doesn't make it back to start the next season. Comes back partially into the season but isn't the same player. Again Year two he is on our books. Now that he has been injured for two years he knows he isn't going to get that big contract so he Opts for his 3rd year at 8mil guaranteed. Now we would have paid 26 mil over 3 years for a hurt/injured player that is not the same as he was.
Again all hypothetical, considering Mack hasn't missed a game (knock on wood) it's a low risk IMO.
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Schefter is reporting that the Browns have already matched the offer. Someone else will need to find the twitter link...Im at work.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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web page Link Well that didn't take long: Browns are matching Jacksonville's offer sheet for C Alex Mack. Cleveland keeps Mack, per source.
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Schefter is reporting that the Browns have already matched the offer. Someone else will need to find the twitter link...Im at work.
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/454710321895063552
" @AdamSchefter
Well that didn't take long: Browns are matching Jacksonville's offer sheet for C Alex Mack. Cleveland keeps Mack, per source."
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Thank God we didn't mess that up somehow.
It's good to have Mack back.
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Ok we can move along now. Time to move onto the draft. /thread 
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1 thing for certain: This deal beats whatever we had offered him. No way he signed for less, knowing we would match.
I call BS on that. Unless you've read the contract of course. This deal he gets 18m guaranteed the first 2 years and has an opt out at that point. That is likely the reason he signed it. He might have gotten the 18m in the form of a signing bonus, but not the option to opt out after 2 years. That, I'm pretty sure is the reason he signed the deal.
As a matter of fact, I'd wager that when we offered him money, his agent asked for this and the Browns said no and that is why they tested the market - someone would say yes if they wanted him bad enough.
If you think a deal with a player option beats one without it, you agree. This beats ours. No reason to call BS.
Whether its the option, the money, or both. He turned down our deal then he signed another, knowing we could match. There would be zero logic for Mack to take a lesser/equal deal with Jax. It would be different if we weren't in control.
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Thank God we didn't mess that up somehow.
It's good to have Mack back.
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Schefter is reporting that the Browns have already matched the offer. Someone else will need to find the twitter link...Im at work.
Ray and Haslam likely already had the caps off their pen, ready to sign...
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Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 13m
Well that didn't take long: Browns are matching Jacksonville's offer sheet for C Alex Mack. Cleveland keeps Mack, per source.
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I bet the fax to get the contract in full must have felt like an eternity to them.
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Gotta be one of the fastest matches in history. lol Cleveland Browns matching Jaguars' five-year, $42 million offer for Alex Mack, per report | cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/04/cleveland_browns_jaguars_five-.htmlCLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Browns will hang on to Pro Bowl center Alex Mack for at least the next two seasons. Question is, will he be two-and-through? The Browns on Friday are matching Jacksonville's offer sheet of a five-year deal worth $42 million, including $26 million guaranteed, according to FoxSports' Jay Glazer. They had until Wednesday to match, but opted not to wait. The deal includes $18 million guaranteed over the first two years, after which Mack can void the deal and become an unrestricted free agent. If he walks away, he stands to hit the jackpot again in 2016 despite the fact he'll be 30 for most of that season. If Mack, 27, opts to stick around after two years, he'll receive $8 million more guaranteed from the Browns in 2016 -- and maybe more if they're really motivated to keep him. What's more, the Browns can't trade him until the 2017 season is underway and can't use the franchise or transition tag on him after 2015. The $8.4 million average also makes Mack the highest paid center in the NFL, surpassing Carolina's Ryan Kalil, who averages $8.186 million per year. The deal gives Mack the opportunity to control his own destiny and hit the market after two more seasons here. The Browns, on the other hand, solidified their center position for the next two years, which is essential if they start a rookie quarterback in 2014. The Browns are in the process of conducting private workouts with most of the key quarterbacks in the draft, including Johnny Manziel, Blake Bortles, Teddy Bridgewater and Derek Carr. If the Browns had let Mack go, they probably would've had to use at least a third- or fourth-round pick on a center. Overall, they have 10 picks in the draft, including three in the first 35. If Mack leaves after 2015, the Browns will have paid him an average of $9 million a year, which is high for a center. For comparison's sake, he's making $2 million to $3 million more than comparable centers from his draft class. Seattle's Max Unger, a second-round pick in 2009 and two-time Pro Bowler, averages $6.45 million a year, and Buffalo's Eric Wood, a first-round pick in 2009 averages $6.3 million and up to $7 million with incentives. But at this point in the offseason, all of the good free agent centers are gone and the Browns had few options. Besides, they were prepared to pay Mack $10.039 million under the transition tag in 2014, so less than $8 million for the second year isn't unreasonable. One of the only downsides is that the extra $5 million or so the Browns will pay Mack over the next two seasons could've been used to help fund extensions for Joe Haden, Josh Gordon, Jordan Cameron and Phil Taylor. But at the NFL Annual Meeting last month, Browns owner Jimmy Haslam stressed that he'd go the extra mile to keep Mack. “Alex Mack is a quality person and quality player and he’s the kind of person we want to play with the Cleveland Browns for a long time,'' Haslam said. "I personally like Alex a lot besides him being a good player. We were very frank (during a meeting in California). We want him to finish his career with the Cleveland Browns.'' He also dismissed the notion that Mack wanted out of Cleveland. “In my conversations with Alex, I think he wants to be a Cleveland Brown,'' said Haslam. "We had lunch that day and he sat next to me at lunch, and I came away convinced he wants to be a Cleveland Brown.” And now he will be -- at least for the next two years.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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If I'm the Browns, I'm taking a look at the center prospects in this draft with the idea of him playing OG or as added depth at OG/C.
Rookie contracts are very cap friendly but when a player like Mack produces, not missing a game and being regarded as one of very best centers, you have to pay the man.
The Browns were not prepared to for the scenario that developed over the last year. It was a mistake not getting Mack signed right after the 2012 season ended and before the 2013 draft.
When the Browns front office thought there might be an issue getting Mack signed, they should have used one of their 2013 draft picks to take a center/guard which would give the rookie a year to learn as Mack's understudy.
None of that happened and then Banner and Haslam blew up the coaching staff again, leaving Mack feeling bitter about the chances of the Browns becoming a winning team.
So now it looks like the Browns will be able to salvage two more years with Mack at center...then what?
Once again, the front office needs to plan ahead, using the draft to add depth at center/guard position, planning for the potential loss of Mack in two years.
Last edited by mac; 04/11/14 04:28 PM.
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Glad the whole thing is over with...
So, could he have signed another offer sheet if one better came along? Like if the Raiders or someone else with cap space actually offered a better deal? Or is it just one?
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If he signed a deal that's it. No more offers to him, it then came down to if the Browns would match, they did so now it's over.
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J/C
Glad this is over. Mack is a top center, and its good to have him around for at least two more seasons. While a lot to pay for a center, it is a good deal for both sides, one which we can afford, and perhaps even renegotiate in two years to keep him longer if he sees consistency and hope in the team.
Now we can focus on the draft and even resigning some of the guys coming into FA in 2015.
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Quote:
Quote:
Schefter is reporting that the Browns have already matched the offer. Someone else will need to find the twitter link...Im at work.
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/454710321895063552
" @AdamSchefter
Well that didn't take long: Browns are matching Jacksonville's offer sheet for C Alex Mack. Cleveland keeps Mack, per source."
It's true, it's on NFL Network, WKYC and others. He's ours..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Did the Jaguars really make a decision to help themselves?
Or, did they screw us?
It almost seems like they spent a lot of time and energy to screw us.
To what end? Why deliberately tick another team off for a player you don't want, especially when you might end up with him if the other team decides to let you have him? I'm sure the Jags time and resources are limited, just like any organization's? Why waist the effort, and risk the consequences of bad opinion / loss of trust with other owners / front offices, on what would essentially be a spiteful prank? Do the lowly Browns really threaten or have they angered someone that much in Jacksonville (or anywhere in the league)?
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angered? really? he was ours to begin with. they made an offer and we matched. end of speculation period.
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JC
Looking at the details of this contract, I find it very hard to believe Mack didn't expect to come right back to Cleveland when he put pen to paper.
This is nothing too far from what he probably would have received in Cleveland. So all the reports that he wanted out of dodge may have been downright wrong....Way to go Mary Kay!
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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end of speculation period.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Way to go Mary Kay!
That's not a sentence you will hear often 
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This whole Alex Mack scenario was done to see what the market for him was. That was all.
There was no way Cleveland was letting him walk.
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angered? really? he was ours to begin with. they made an offer and we matched. end of speculation period.
That's why I can't figure why J'vlle would have made the offer to screw us, like the original poster wondered. I don't see how we possibly could have done anything to J'vlle to make them mad enough to 'screw us' by making an offer for Mack.
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I'm sure Mack probably had some conversations with the Jags telling them he wanted out of CLE. How else would he have been able to get the Jags to spend their time trying to get him? Sure it's speculation but it also makes complete sense. The Jags aren't going to spend any significant time trying to sign a player that says "ya, I want to go back to the Browns but need them to pay me more... help a brother out Jags?" 
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Who knows, maybe its a deal the agent made with the Jags' brass to give Mack more money but a contract they knew the Browns would match, while promising the Jaguars something in return later on down the line.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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j/c Ray Farmer to Brown's Nation: "Can you smell what's cooking?" VINDICATION!
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Amen. Earn your beans. Be all the Brown you can be!
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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lol ... but a real quote by Farmer: Quote:
"We have talked about keeping our own players and this is a positive for us,” said General Manager Ray Farmer. “Alex is a quality person and player that truly brings to life what playing like a Brown means.”
...
"The ending is positive for everyone,” said Farmer. “Keeping our young, good nucleus of players is vital for clubs and specifically the Browns, and therefore this is a good step.”
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jc:
Good or Bad; Like it or not.....the Browns have had one busy offseason with a lot of money spent for 2014 .
(Granted most money comes from the signing bonuses)
Mack- $9M
Dansby- $10M
Whitner- $11M
Hawkins- $4.8M
Tate- $2.5M
McQuistan- $1.6M
Dray- $2.25M
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Alright, lets match. But if I'm the agent for Joe Thomas, next summer I'm screaming for a renegotiation. If Mack is worth 9 million a year then the best left tackle in football is worth at LEAST 15 million per with a HUGE guarantee. Otherwise, I hold him out. And you better plan on paying Haden BIG time if your throwing that kind of money at a center.
Meanwhile if he's getting paid like the greatest center of all time he better start PLAYING like a first ballot HOF center. He sure hasn't showed that so far.
I'm not sure if he'll get 15M a year but one thing is certain, he'll be making less than Mack in 2015 as far as base salary is concerned. JT's contract decreased to $8-some million and Mack is going to be what now? $9M?
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 04/11/14 06:35 PM.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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I don't see Joe Thomas having an issue with that though. I think he'll play through 2017 on this contract and we'll look to extend him a bit in 2018 (his final year). It'll depend on how he is playing at that time. He signed that contract and he'll abide by it... just the kind of guy I think he is.
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Joe Thomas received a 7 year deal worth $84 million, with $44 million guaranteed. That was in 2011.
He gets a workout bonus of $200K from 2012 to 2018, and also a roster bonus of $1 million from 2016 - 2018.
This season his contract peaks at $10,9 million. He then gets $8.8 million in 2015, (plus the $200K bonus) $8.3 million (plus $1.2 in bonuses) in 2016, and $8.8 million (plus $1.2 million in bonuses) in 2017-2018.
His deal was designed to be front loaded, with $42 million paid in the 1st 3 years. Thomas is 29 now. We will have him through age age 35. (assuming that he is still playing at a level worthy of $10 million in cap cost)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Alex Mack continued...
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