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and we are drafting our #2 receiver. I don't think you want to get your #2 guy with the 4th overall pick.
Would it make a difference if we draft Watkins with the plan for him to be our #1 Wr and for Gordon to be #2?
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
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j/c One thing I find to be funny....... So many people claimed that Gordon would end up screwing up again and being suspended for at least a season or longer. Now suddenly, he's our #1 guy and we're set at the #1 WR position. I guess time changes everything. That or maybe the fact that they want a QB SO BADLY they simply have decided to forget mentioning what they felt so strongly about not so long ago. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I think if Bridgewater is gone and Clowney is there, the Browns will have a tough time passing up on him, but it would log jam a unit full of pass rushers.....
1. Teddy Bridgewater
2. Jadeveon Clowney
3. Johnny Manziel
4. Blake Bortles
That's mine as of 10:25a today. I'm sure it will change by noon.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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That's mine as of 10:25a today. I'm sure it will change by noon.
...and what trouble do you expect Clowney to get into in the next 1-1/2 hours?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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That's mine as of 10:25a today. I'm sure it will change by noon.
...and what trouble do you expect Clowney to get into in the next 1-1/2 hours?
Anything is possible.  But regarding Clowney, I keep thinking would it be worth to draft him if the QBs are gone (or OUR QB is gone), or would trading back be better? He's a talent, no question. But can he take it to the next level or can we cash in while his value is at it's highest...perhaps get a future first rounder to play the franchise QB game in 2015....I know, I know.... No one wants the hear that. 
But more or less, I mean my thoughts about Manziel vs Bortles. I flip-flop on them a lot, mainly because I like Bortles' frame and potential upside while sitting behind Hoyer. I also think he did himself a service by throwing at the combine. I think in a combine world where top QBs elect not to throw or do anything really but interview, by Bortles opting to, it shows competitiveness and desire to improve his status. I like that. And I think he earned some extra points IMO.
I've thought about Robinson/Matthews, but I don't see the Browns taking someone at #4 to be the RT....even if it's the heir apparent to Joe Thomas. I think you get a game changer at 4. Filling the RT position doesn't do that for me.
Watkins would fall into that game changer mold, but with the draft class deepest at WR, the #2 can ultimately be found later.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Bortles throwing at the combine may have impressed you, but I doubt it makes a hill of beans to NFL GM's.
There's nothing new about top prospects not throwing at the combine. Now if you're ranked 3rd or 4th in the QB rankings, you may decide to throw at the combine. Which is exactly why I believe Bortles decided to throw there.
The film is what makes or breaks your draft status as a QB. All GM's interested in seeing these QB's throw, will see them all throw. The only thing the combine accomplishes is media and fan exposure to cause a media and fan buzz that doesn't exist in draft rooms.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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... or would trading back be better?
If our QB is not there at #4, I'm thinking a trade down is best, possibly the best CB (Gilbert?). No further than #8 or #10 though...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I'm really having trouble with my top 4.
And yeah, I meant this as a Browns-perspective top 4...
I think I definitely have Clowney as the #1 guy. I don't know if you factor that in with our needs, but I don't know how you can pass on him either.
After that, I just don't really know. I would probably put Watkins, because I feel the strongest about him being good, and I think QB is tougher to judge from college to NFL... Watkins is going to be special.
Manziel is a risk, but so is Bortles and Bridgewater. None of these guys are sure things. In fact no player is, but I think QB has greater consequences...
1. Clowney
2. Manziel
3. Watkins
4. Bridgewater
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1. Bridgewater
2. Bortles
3. Matthews/Robinson
4. Gilbert
5. Watkins
#gmstrong
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Of course the film is what matters most. And the physical act of throwing is not necessarily what I'm referring to because I don't think he "wow-ed" anyone with his arm strength or accuracy. Nor did he drop the ball.
Teams go to the combine to learn more about the character of a player just as much as confirming certain measurables. By going against the grain and deciding to throw lends to the character of the player and not taking the easy route, I think.
For a top three QB, it's "safe" not to throw. I think Bortles was attempting to stand out as a QB who wants to prove something. I value that. I think teams will as well. Not to the extent that it will skyrocket him to the indisputable #1 pick, but I think it will be a decent piece in the overall puzzle of determining what type of NFL player Bortles will be. Others may not think that way, and that's fine.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Since I do believe he is the 3rd rated QB in this draft, I believe it was certainly his intent to set himself apart from the others.
I just believe that NFL GM's understand the business side of things and the standard operating procedure in terms of top QB's not usually throwing at the combines.
If you believe the media, Bortles has risen up the draft boards a lot since mid way of the season. I certainly don't feel he hurt himself by throwing at the combine. I'm certainly not saying that someone or some consider it a positive. But how much of a positive is anyone's guess.
As far as changing anyone's draft board, I certainly don't feel that type of impact was made.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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# 1 Clowney DE
#2 Robinson LT
#3 Matthews LT
#4 Bridgewater QB
BPA not the Browns board .
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If I leave out need then
1. Evans
2. Clowney
3. Watkins
4. Jake Mathews
5. ha ha Clinton Dix
6. Anthony Barr
7. Greg Robinson
8. Derek Carr
9. Teddy Bridgewater
10 timmy jerrigan
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WOW? Evans #1? No Mack in your top 10? ha ha Clinton Dix in the top 5???? Carr ahead of Bridgewater?
Our lists are far far apart from each other.
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Am I trying to be a better person?
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Mack isnt in there because, I just havent seen enough of him.
I feel Evans hasnt even scratched the surface of his talent. big fast, fantastic hands and just plays the game violently as a receiver. people ripped manziel for just throwing it up for grabs, I applauded him for being smart enough to give Evans a chance to make a play.
Ha Ha is no joke, lol I think he is very similar to earl thomas. Plays much faster than he timed at the combines. Reacts quickly to whats in front of him and goes after the ball. he is gonna be a good one. I was hoping for him at 26 but i think he will go early.
Carr's big arm is the difference. I worry that Bridgewater just wont be as effective in the cold windy afc north. he puts so much touch on the ball and a lot of air underneath it. If the Browns were a dome team, then he would be #1 on my board.
Carr also throws a very good short to mid range ball and I see the potential for a very good deep ball thrower. I think the same of Bridgewater, good in short to mid and room to grow with the deepball.
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1st, you should watch Mack hihglights.
I can definitely see Evans in the top 10. Top 5 is a little high.
I don't see HA HA as the playmaker type safety. I see him as more of a mid to late 2nd kind of guy. With as deep as this draft is … I think that he should go 3rd round. JMO
I don't like much about Carr. I see him as Weeden 2.0 more than anything else.
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All Pro
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I was wondering where Mack was too. That guy is a stud. With DQ gone, I would love to get him at 4 if they aren't sold on any QB.
Seriously.
my top 4
Clowney
Robinson
Mathews
a. Watkins
b. Mack
since I only think Browns, and we don't need a WR as a #1..I Move Mack into my top four.
Last edited by AkBrownsfan; 02/27/14 10:46 PM.
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Mack and Jackson play completely different positions. If we want to draft a linebacker to replace Jackson it would C.J. Mosley and he is not worth the 4th overall pick.
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I don't think Mingo is considered a "wasted" pick yet...
And by your point, we've "wasted" picks on QBs before, so does that mean shouldn't take one now?
We invested the #6 pick on a backup. Don't get me wrong, I love Mingo. I think he's fantastic, but I don't see him being anything more than a backup with Sheard and Kruger playing. I just don't see how adding Clowney to this mix will be any better. I love Clowney, but I just don't see it helping us at all.
I don't disagree with you totally but 2 years ago Seattle had Clemmons and Irvin but still upgraded their pass rush by adding Bennett and Avril. You can never have to many players that can get to the QB. If I remember correctly isn't Sheards contract up after this season? That would be one thing to consider. If we draft OLB at 4 we could potentially move Sheard for a 2nd or 3rd.
My top 4 would be:
1. Bridgewater
2. Watkins
3. Trade back
4. Gilbert
5. Robinson
Last edited by Penny; 03/01/14 11:57 PM.
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BPA:
Clowney
Mack
Watkins
Robinson
Browns:
Clowney
Watkins
Bridgewater
Robinson
Clowney - even with the concerns of his motivation - has the highest ceiling of anyone in the draft. You can't pass it up. I can't see Houston not taking him, not only do you have JJ Watt to pair him with, you have JJ Watt to kick his a$$ and keep him honest and motivated. . . . . Bridgewater might be going up my board. If I thought Mack could play inside, he might be 3rd or 4th on the list.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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and we are drafting our #2 receiver. I don't think you want to get your #2 guy with the 4th overall pick.
Would it make a difference if we draft Watkins with the plan for him to be our #1 Wr and for Gordon to be #2?
Heck yeah, if Gordon gets suspended the back seat drivers will be yowling that they should have seen it coming. Little and Bess? Whats with the Browns and drive killing receivers that can't catch?
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Quote:
Would it make a difference if we draft Watkins with the plan for him to be our #1 Wr and for Gordon to be #2?
Yep...good call...lol  for those who need that justification process. Gordon was only a 2nd round pick so He can be the Number 2... 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Maybe they could be 1a and 1b? Question; doesn't the WCO refer to receivers as X, Y, and Z, without reference to which one is considered "better" or more important? Or, why not just have Gordon as what we used to call "Split End" and Watkins can be our "Flanker". In any case, its a really good thing to have two really good WR's.
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I know it's just pre-draft talk that will change 50 times before May, but after some of the stuff I've read, I am starting to believe that Jacksonville is serious about Manziel at 3.
I really don't see Houston or St. Louis taking him, I believe it will be the Jags or us.
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i think houston might be in for either teddy or clowney, i think more clowney.
st. louis is going with bradford for at least one more year, so they might target Watkins or a OL, probably an OL.
i hope jax takes manziel, cause if teddy is on the board at 4...thats a no brainer, and i would be furious and farmer passes that up.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Ok, see that this was supposed to be a Browns top4, not an overall one. That changes things a bit for me.
(1) Teddy Bridgewater
(2) Johnny Manziel
(3) Sammy Watkins
(4) Greg Robinson
The more I look at Bortles, the more concerned I get about him. He seems like a slightly better version of Jake Locker. Now, that could mean he'll end up being a good QB, but there will be alot of growing pains along the way. And, I don't have Derek Carr as a 1st round QB. So, there's that.
That leaves Sammy Watkins, Greg Robinson (monster RT at #4? people may complain about value, but if Kyle likes Mitchell at LG and we get Geoff for RG, while re-signing Mack, we'd quite possibly have the best OL in the NFL). I tried to consider Evans too but would prefer to trade down if we wanted him (he's about even with Lee for me, so if we traded down and got either, then I'd be happy).
I wouldn't complain about Justin Gilbert (CB, OkieState), but think we could trade down for him too.
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My thoughts:
Houston - Trying to decide between Clowney and Bortles
StL - Trade down to 4 to 6 targeting Robinson or Matthews. Possibly Watkins.
Jax - If both available tough choice between Clowney and Bortles. If both gone - ?. They could go with Manziel or Bridgewater. Or one of the OT's
Browns - if it's me deciding, I go Teddy. Without hesitation, regardless of who else is available. If TB is gone I probably look to trade down a few spots. I consider Watkins but probably go Mack. That would likely mean Sheard or Krugar move inside. I also consider Manziel and Bortles if available but not sure that I am sold on either of them. That could change closer to the draft but I doubt that I will do much more evaluation. If Farmer et al like one of these two then I would be happy with the pick because I have seen enough promise to be happy with the pick but haven't seen enough to advocate either.
I have no idea what Farmer is thinking.
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I agree with a lot of what you guys are saying. I think Clowney to Houston is going to happen. He's the best prospect in the draft, and I think Bill O'Brien will target a QB in round 2 or some kind of a trade up back into the late first...
I definitely think St. Louis would trade out. They'd probably love a tackle to protect Bradford, but also see the possibility to fatten up. Does anyone at 2 really help them immensely if Clowney is gone? I don't think they go QB either...
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you guys need to stop filling my head thinking that Teddy is a possibility.
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Quote:
The more I look at Bortles, the more concerned I get about him. He seems like a slightly better version of Jake Locker. Now, that could mean he'll end up being a good QB, but there will be alot of growing pains along the way. And, I don't have Derek Carr as a 1st round QB. So, there's that.
The one thing about Bortles going to us is that I think it would be beneficial for him to sit behind Hoyer. I think he needs a year or at least most of the year to groom in an NFL system... I think the game might be a little fast for him, whereas I think Johnny and Teddy seem like they might be OK out of the gate...
It's easy to fall in love with his vitals, because he's built like Big Ben and Joe Flacco, but so have so many other guys... I've seen a few games of his, and the potential is there, but I think there is a lot of work to do, and I'm not sure if Mike Pettine is the right coach for him...
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We will find out a lot about Teddy's league wide value if he doesn't go first overall, because if he is as good as the majority on here thinks, then there should be some heavy bidding for him at #2, especially if the Rams are looking to trade down. I'm saying this because there are so many QB needy teams picking in the top 10. If Bridgewater is there at 4, it would also mean that half a dozen QB needy teams, for whatever reasons, don't think very highly of him. Keep in mind that we as fans don't have access to some infos GM have, medicals, character, dedication, intelligence etc. I'm just playing devil's advocate here....if he's there at 4, I'll scream his name along with you guys , but the draft nerd in me would have some reservations as to why there was no stronger market for him considering the set up of the top 10. You can say one or two GMs missed on him, but half a dozen GMs in need of a QB would make me go "hmm". That said, prospects like Garoppolo and Murray would fit Shanny's system too and if they have a close enough grade to Teddy because of it, I could see a new and inexpierenced GM like Farmer outsmart himself...he would not be the first or last GM to do so. I especially fear Kuharich whispering in his ear. His Saints needed a QB forever and never picked one high, as far as I remember.
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1. Clowney
2. Bridgewater
3. Robinson
4. Watkins
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1. Robinson ( cleanest prospect)
2. Clowney ( tremendous upside)
3. Matthews
4. Barr
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1. Robinson ( cleanest prospect)
2. Clowney ( tremendous upside)
3. Matthews
4. Barr
I like Mack better than Barr. Mack is just one of those guys who produced and produced. He was ALL OVER Ohio State, which was their biggest game. I guess I understand the "upside" aspect of Barr, but Mack is just plain better right now IMO
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Quote:
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1. Robinson ( cleanest prospect)
2. Clowney ( tremendous upside)
3. Matthews
4. Barr
I like Mack better than Barr. Mack is just one of those guys who produced and produced. He was ALL OVER Ohio State, which was their biggest game. I guess I understand the "upside" aspect of Barr, but Mack is just plain better right now IMO
I can see that too.
I don't list any QBs in top four b/c of flaws and bust potential. Watkins could be a top 4 too. Who the Browns select should/ could depend on free agency. I like Jimmy G. at the top of round 2 and if Robinson is sitting at 4 stick him at guard or trade down.
Mack's return in far from a done deal. There better be a center on the board for the 4th round in that case.
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I agree with a lot of what you guys are saying. I think Clowney to Houston is going to happen. He's the best prospect in the draft, and I think Bill O'Brien will target a QB in round 2 or some kind of a trade up back into the late first...
If we get our QB at #4, I would be OK trading #26 to Houston if we can get their first next year out of it.
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you guys need to stop filling my head thinking that Teddy is a possibility.
I really think Johnny and/or Teddy will be there at 4. I don't think 2 QB's go before our pick.
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The problem is that many, including myself don't see it as an "either and or" scenario.
I would take Teddy in a heartbeat but have come to a firm opinion I wouldn't touch Johnny Football with a ten foot pole at #4.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
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Would it make a difference if we draft Watkins with the plan for him to be our #1 Wr and for Gordon to be #2?
Yep...good call...lol for those who need that justification process. Gordon was only a 2nd round pick so He can be the Number 2...
My thought is that if we bring in Sammy, the only one who will be focused on #1 or #2 Wide Receiver will be the opponents and the media. Based on what the opponents do with coverage will determine what we do.
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Quote:
The problem is that many, including myself don't see it as an "either and or" scenario.
I would take Teddy in a heartbeat but have come to a firm opinion I wouldn't touch Johnny Football with a ten foot pole at #4.
I love Johnny, but I have questions about him like everyone else...
I just think it's too hard to figure out how a QB will turn out at the next level....
My one question with him is when a team on particular plays is able to take away the scrambling ability, can he sit back there and get the ball where it needs to go?
It's a stupid question, because that's the biggest question of all of these guys. I don't think the demand to do that in a college game is anywhere near what it is in the pros. The guys aren't as wide open, and the pressure is coming bigger and faster... So how can we say if a guy can or can't make those reads?
I do think Johnny could scramble at the NFL level. I think he will be smart enough about getting down early enough to avoid hits.
Manziel doesn't need to be perfect in the pocket, just enough where teams have to respect it. I hope the Browns can figure out if he or any of these other QB's are up for it.
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Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 Your top 4?
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