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Healthcare in this country is disgusting, period. I'm generally on the conservative side of things, but after spending time in Germany and having a girlfriend (that I somewhat support) living over there for two years, I want what they have.
Our healthcare costs, Obamacare or not are nonsense. The system is so complex that I have trouble finding out the information that I need, IE what doctors I can go to and what I can't.
Can't even get a straight answer about how much a procedure will cost me. That being surgery and going to see the doctor to see if I have a sinus infection. It's the only service I've ever heard of where you don't find out the cost until after you get it. And the costs can all be different. One hospital might be cheaper than another. One doctor might be cheaper than another. But heck if I know.
Yeah, I hear people rip Canada's system and Germany's system all the time. Well having seen it first hand, it's much simpler for the patient and there's no fear in going to the doctor. That's what I want. And my healthcare is better than most folks, definitely better than most people I've heard at the Dr. Office and those on that video.
I want real healthcare overhaul. The full thing. Everyone is given a basic package, and from there, if you want better, you can pay extra and buy yourself a privatized extension package or something.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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Legend
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Well, I for one, wanted reform. Just not this way. They screwed the pooch on this one.., 100% a bad system. What a mess.
Obama was weak, he should never have listened to Pelosi and Reed..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Well, I for one, wanted reform. Just not this way. They screwed the pooch on this one.., 100% a bad system. What a mess.
Obama was weak, he should never have listened to Pelosi and Reed..
You're an employer so you directly deal with healthcare and isnsurance company packages, etc. Me, I'm a union member, so I don't even pay premiums. All I know is how much extra the company spends per day on me to the union. So we see it from different perspectives.
But yeah, I hear people say things bad about other country's healthcare systems. And as I've said, I've experienced the German one. And that's a much better system IMO.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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Legend
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Our premiums haven't risen as a result of Obama care.. So I'm not sure that this vid is portraying things accurately for all small businesses. Hasn't affected us in this manner and I think that's because our plan (which we put in place 2 years ago and everyone beat on me about spending 15k on a lawyer to help us) meet or exceeds Obamacare requirements.
Now, having said that, the plan has experienced increases for each of the last two years, but no matter what plan I would have put in place, we'd have seen that anyway. Ours weren't excessive like the ones on this vid.
Still, I think the way Obamacare finally ended up working is a disaster. Just a mess.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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My company is exempt from Obamacare, but we switched providers last year. The part I had taken out of my check went up somewhat significantly, co-pays went up 50%, deductible more than doubled, and out of pocket max went up 50%. I can't figure it out, as I spent nearly $5k out of pocket and never hit my out of pocket max of $2250. This year, without notice, they changed the prescription plan - meds I've depended on for over a decade went from a $20 deductible to $521 and change per month.
While Obamacare may be an issue, even those of us not impacted by the law are being impacted by a very broken system. The whole system, including tort reform needs to be overhauled. What was done was a bandaid on a broken leg, and a dirty bandaid at that.
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Dawg Talker
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Pete, your statement that you don't pay premiums is both inaccurate, and a large part of the problem.
Your union negotiated your wages for you, and a part of that wage package is the premiums that are paid. You pay them just as surely as if they came out of your pocket. You get less money in your paycheck because those premiums are paid. They are paid by your labor, it is your money paying those premiums.
That so many people believe their premiums are paid out of the magic bucket in the sky, that there is no cost to them, that their wages are not reduced in exchange for health care, is a MAJOR part of the problem. Nobody cares about the quality, or cost, or effectiveness, of a plan that they perceive as being "free".
You, and many others, are being cheated and robbed blind, and you don't even realize it is happening. It is a huge con, and is endemic throughout our taxation and wage system. You have been convinced that "somebody else" is paying this cost, and you will probably argue with me that it is not your money.
When you can separate the person who uses a product or service, from the apparent payor for that product or service, ripoffs, fraud, and poor quality will be the guaranteed result.
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Legend
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Healthcare in this country is disgusting, period. I'm generally on the conservative side of things, but after spending time in Germany and having a girlfriend (that I somewhat support) living over there for two years, I want what they have.
Due to cultural differences, we will never have what they have. For example, the hospital I work at collects 28 cents per dollar billed (this is a 2010 figure, it's probably worse now). The reason for this is that we turn no one away. People use our ER as a clinic, coming in for minor problems that could well be treated in an office setting. People know that if they claim chest pain or that they are suicidal, they will be provided a free warm bed and 3 meals per day. Diagnostic testing and treatment must be done even though everyone knows it's unnecessary. Even if these people have insurance, Medicare or Medicaid coverage, reimbursement is frequently denied. Many times, once a patient is admitted, they'll say they have no place to live and we end up keeping them for several extra days until placement can be arranged. Those extra days will not be covered. We don't have the immigrant problem that facilities in CA, AZ, TX and FL are dealing with, and I can only imagine the strain they are experiencing. The expense of all this free care has to be made up somewhere. I don't think Germany is dealing with these issues or the legal costs of our sue happy society (which is a whole 'nother problem).
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Pete, your statement that you don't pay premiums is both inaccurate, and a large part of the problem.
lol, I like your post, and I agree with a lot of it. But as I said, I understand how much per day is being spent extra on me. And I also do know how much of that is going to healthcare.
Now my average co-worker has no idea. But me, I do because my watch partner (work on a petroleum tugboat) is our union negotiating representative for the unlicensed folks in the job. So he knows the exact figures, and we spend about 180 days a year together, at least 4-6 hours a day just me and him.
So not only have we sorta become best buds, we also spend glorious amounts of time talking about just about everything. Whether it be arguments about college basketball (UNC fan vs me a UConn fan), how Larry Zonka is the best RB ever (he's a Fins fan, lol), how North Carolina gets all the Browns games, and a ton about who is trying to screw us over (whether it be the other crew, the guys who are awake when we're asleep, the captain, the company, the union, everyone and anyone), lol.
So I do know. What I have trouble doing is comparing it to what other people's premiums vs what their employer's pay. I think it's 67$ a day. But I believe that money is only spent for 180 days a year (as I work half the time and I'm home half the time). So it's like, may be 10 or 11 grand total? (quick math) And that's just on healthcare.
EDIT: Not sure if I made it clear. I understand that I am paying the premiums in the form of me making less. I was a teacher for a year as well (so when I started working on the water, this wasn't new to me), and one thing I understood was that there was a package being spent on me. My paycheck is not everything that I really make. There's also everything else that was being spent on me in the form of money toward pension, matching 401k, insurance, etc. That all goes into basically what a person is being paid, not just their weekly/bi-weekly paycheck.
So when I said, I do know what extra money is being spent on me, I figured it into that amount. Pension, money market, and insurance (as well as keeping union services going, which is paid for by companies hiring union workers and my union dues).
Last edited by PeteyDangerous; 01/30/14 06:33 PM.
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Joined: Aug 2008
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2nd String
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2nd String
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Quote:
Our premiums haven't risen as a result of Obama care.. So I'm not sure that this vid is portraying things accurately for all small businesses. Hasn't affected us in this manner and I think that's because our plan (which we put in place 2 years ago and everyone beat on me about spending 15k on a lawyer to help us) meet or exceeds Obamacare requirements.
Now, having said that, the plan has experienced increases for each of the last two years, but no matter what plan I would have put in place, we'd have seen that anyway. Ours weren't excessive like the ones on this vid.
Still, I think the way Obamacare finally ended up working is a disaster. Just a mess.
As I have stated before on this site, I am a health insurance broker like the guy in the video. 75% of all small group, 2-50, have seen, or will see, increases averaging 35-70% due to the new rules in effect at a group's renewal in 2014. These groups are on the healthier side of the pooling equation. The other 25% will see decreases averaging 10-20%. These are the sicker groups in the pooling equation. The older and sicker you are, the more ACA helps you. The younger and healthier you are, the more it hurts you. Most healthy small groups took an early renewal effective 12/1 in order to delay the adverse effects as long as possible. The sicker groups moved their renewals to 1/1 in order to attain the savings as early as possible. I work with 90 small groups ranging in size from 2 to 125 enrolled employees. 75 of these groups now have a renewal date of either 12/1 or 1/1.
The reason I mention these things is because you said ACA hasn't effected your rates. That's either because you were a sick group to begin with, or because you haven't come to your renewal yet.
Also, someone said their plan was exempt from the ACA. There is no such thing! All plans are affected in one way or another; big group, small group, individual, on or off exchange, fully insured or self funded, all are effected. There are groups and individuals who are 'grandfathered', but there aren't many. You would have had to basically keep the same plan since 3/28/10 (the date the law was passed) in order to be grandfathered. Even grandfathered plans have to meet certain requirements of the ACA.
Someone also mentioned Germany's system. They have a system where those who can afford it purchase supplemental private insurance. The providers covet these patients to the point where there are separate waiting rooms for them where servers bring them refreshments and the receive preferential treatment. So even in their social utopian healthcare system, some are a bit more equal then others.
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2nd String
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2nd String
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I also forgot to ask you if you noticed the increase in your premiums 1/1 due to the new taxes and fees that need to be included in your bill? Some carriers are line itemizing these taxes and fees, while others built them into you premium totals. Some carriers also prorated them into your premiums if you renew off the calendar year. For instance, if your renewal was April, the carrier built in 4 months of these taxes into your renewal eff 4/1/13.
I am curious to know if you are located in Ohio and who your carrier is.
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Dawg Talker
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Healthcare in this country is disgusting, period. I'm generally on the conservative side of things, but after spending time in Germany and having a girlfriend (that I somewhat support) living over there for two years, I want what they have.
Of course you do....It is nice having someone else to foot the bill. And I am not talking about the Canadian or German Govt. I am talking about US!!!!
The US, in a round about way, SUBSIDIZES the rest of the world's Healthcare. We do. Most of the advances in medicine have been coming from this country. Who has been paying for it? We have....WHY??? Because we don't object to it.
A massive Pharmaceutical company creates a new drug. It literally takes BILLIONS of dollars to develop, test and also to pass through the US FDA in order to be used on citizens. Yet, Canada, France, the rest of Europe, and the World, will get this drug FAR cheaper than we will.....WHY? Because the Pharmaceutical company knows that the US can or better yet "will" pay for most of its profits and development costs. Or in the worst case....they won't put up a fight to negotiate a better price? This allows all of the other countries to be able to play hardball and get their lower prices...I mean what does the Drug company care...they are getting their money from the stupid Americans who don't even LOOK at their medical costs. And here is the bigger kick...we are their largest customers....
And it isn't just drug companies...it is CT machines, MRI machines, and software even coming from other countries, like "Germany" and Siemens....We pay a premium that others would not. We develop surgeries and procedures and tests, that took time and an exorbitant amount of money to develop...only to have them taught out of our good will(because that is what is right and what we do in the medical community...it does go both ways) to other doctors in other countries. They invested a plane ride and a doctors salary in time for training....and they get a new technology...of course they don't have to charge much for it when implementing it....
You want to look at something...look at how much the US spends in Medical research.... http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014...sia-makes-gains While we once spent 3/4 of the worlds total investment in medicine...we have slid back lately to 51%....Asia has started increase their spending....But we still spend over HALF of the worlds total investment on Medical Research. And the rest of the world benefits because they do not have to recoup those costs. WE are recouping those costs.
Add to that those that take advantage of the system we are in...Ambulances as taxi's, ER's as shelters. And add to that that we don't have enough doctors to provide legitimate competition in pricing....And that we have an oppressive tort system.
I can go on...But my main point is that while, yes in other countries it seems the people have lower costs for their healthcare (the fact that those countries cannot afford those healthcare systems will go unmentioned....ooops).....however I, for one, am getting sick of Subsidizing the care of the rest of the world....Anyone else???
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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