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This seemingly mirror image of the team from previous years has me asking the question: Was the FO trying to tell us something?
It seems like, in retrospect, that they were clearly stating that THIS year was simply not the focus. It is the combination of several puzzling questions that has me thinking that they fully anticipated this being another down year.Paramount is the fact that we have a HUGE amount of cap space available to help the roster and, despite glaring holes, they stood pat.
Not only is our secondary extremely thin, they are not especially talented. Skrine is exactly who he was last year. Safety is 1 deep with Ward and he's oft injured. WR is thin and was easily upgraded as was guard. These hole were apparent to everyone and were addressable. They didn't. But why?
I think how they handled the draft was a window into the mindset for this entire year - it's all about next year. And if it's all about next year, then isn't the best way to enter into next year is with a top 3 pick in the draft?
Now I feel a little bit like a crazy conspiracy theorist wearing a hat made of tin-foil and living in a bomb shelter but could this year be about going with a QB they KNEW was going to blow, a secondary that couldn't possibly compete, and WRs that couldn't seperate last year and apparently still can't?
If we bagged the draft, why is it such a stretch that we bagged FA and thus the year?
I have a hard time thinking that anyone could possibly go into this - especially here - with a mindset that we are purposely not competing but it sure seems like we had the resources to improve and we just didn't.
And the FO was trying to tell us that in so many words.
Last edited by redddog; 09/09/13 04:20 PM.
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I think the FO knew the score going into this season. We're rebuilding. We're taking it slowly. A lot of teams in transition will gut a roster just to get it over with, but we're taking our time.
I can't remember the last time I saw a FO so lukewarm on their starting QB. I don't think they like Weeden at all, and I don't blame them. It was a dumb pick, and it looks worse by the day.
It's all well and good to take your time, but this is a league of short windows.
A QB, an overhaul of the secondary and some patches to the O-line should make us competitive, so all is not lost.
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In the grand scheme of things, I think the FO saw the marginal draft class for QBs, the marginal class of FA QB's and the limited trade market and decided that they will ride another year and see where Weeden takes them.
I think, though they may never admit this, that they would be quite happy if Weeden implodes and they only win 3 or 4 games so they could get their QB.
Edit: Also, so far, the FO talent evaluation has been pretty good.
Their main adds to the team from the offseason played very well in the first game, and Weeden looked pretty god awful the first game. So everything we've heard from the team so far is pretty solid talent evaluation.
Last edited by Thebigbaddawg; 09/09/13 04:44 PM.
you had a good run Hank.
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So your conspiracy theory is banking on Lombardi, making this team better?! 
And the next head coach is ......
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Our free agents have looked really good. I think next offseason we take an aggressive approach fixing the offense like we did the front 7. Wouldn't shock me if we signed a #2 CB and spent every draft pick on offense.
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He already has improved the talent of the team.
you had a good run Hank.
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I believe at the very least this FO knew that our odds of success was quite low for this season. While I don't believe they're the rocket scientists some believe, I also don't believe they're as foolish as some believe. I don't feel they felt comfortable with Weeden at the helm. I also don't feel they wish to take a huge gamble and may have to keep re-setting at the QB position. I also believe they wanted to see some players in this new system. I didn't see posters clamoring for a QB to be drafted high or any huge dividends in the FA market this year for this system. Unfortunately you can't simply pull a franchise QB out of thin air. And let's face it, until you know what you do and don't have, how do you know where to address all of your problems? I have to say that we all knew the secondary would be a thorn in our side. Well, those that actually realized that you need a secondary.  I don't feel they are actually trying to tank the season. But I do feel it's an evaluation year for many and that they do know some areas that need to be addressed. I do believe it is a legitimate question to ask that if you are looking to draft a franchise QB, is a 4-12 record really better than a 7-9 record? I do agree that there were obvious questions that weren't addressed. but for the long haul, that may have been a better course of action. JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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How about player development? Here is a challenge, tell me one player this team has developed into something more than they were the day they joined the team.
In Fact, Tell me one player they, any Cleveland Browns regime, developed in the past 7 years?  I don't want to single him out. But this team is a much better team if Chris Ogbonnaya is a much better player. For all my love for Chris Ogbonnaya, He has the talent, he has the motivation, he has the Quickness, he has the catching ability, ( appears to anyway.) For All of That! Whether last year or This year, when it comes down to crunch time, he is Very Average. kind of like oh my bad, my bad, my bad, we will get em next play. Ya But you only get so many chances. And WHAT? There aren't 11 to 20 Other Players One could say the exact same comment about on this team? There Are. The role players, All of the Role players, All of the Role players, are very much like, ( oh I don't have to take the responsibility, let someone else take the responsibility. ) Hey! YOu can't be 2-0 if you can't win the first game. And every year that they start 0-1 in the first game, every single time I think they have known the opponent, For FOUR Months! The Dolphins, were also very bad in openers going into this past week, and were 0-3 in their last 3 vs the Browns. So the NFL couldn't give you more of a schedule opener in your favor. Oh Well! it is Only the Regular Season! Who really gives a rip.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Quote:
How about player development? Here is a challenge, tell me one player this team has developed into something more than they were the day they joined the team.
Well, given that we have a high number of 1 and 2 year players, that's a very unfair question..
As far as this FO, (and frankly, who gives a damn about previous FO's) they haven't had time to develop the film from the first press conference..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
ow about player development? Here is a challenge, tell me one player this team has developed into something more than they were the day they joined the team.
In Fact, Tell me one player they, any Cleveland Browns regime, developed in the past 7 years?
Easy. Craig Robertson. Rubin. Winn. Hughes. Cameron. Greco. Kitchen. These are all guys who are much better players than they were when they were drafted.
It's hard to pick out players for such a list, because as someone else noted, there are so many really young players who are still developing.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
In Fact, Tell me one player they, any Cleveland Browns regime, developed in the past 7 years?
Rubin.
That's about it.
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Quote:
Quote:
In Fact, Tell me one player they, any Cleveland Browns regime, developed in the past 7 years?
Rubin.
That's about it.
See Ytowns post above yours
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
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In Fact, Tell me one player they, any Cleveland Browns regime, developed in the past 7 years?
Rubin.
That's about it.
See Ytowns post above yours
I don't see one name on that list I agree with. Maybe Greco, but I wouldn't go as far as saying we 'developed' him.
The rest have proven nothing in the NFL.
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Opinions are like.....ah, you know the rest of it..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Obviously.
I have one. YTown has one. Everyone has one.
I don't quite understand saying 'Look at that guy's opinion' and when I state my own, pointing out that it's an opinion.
Looking at that list, would it you shock you if a lot of those guys weren't on the roster next year? Hughes? Kitchen? Robertson?
I'm not saying those guys are bums, but I wouldn't be shocked if they weren't here in a year or two.
I'm certainly not ready to serve them up as evidence of successes developing players.
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Many of Ytown's names are very debatable (mostly because they haven't been here very long), but I think Cameron is a guy that's playing much better than when we drafted him. Based on his preseason and the first game, I'd say he's developed a ton. A lot can happen in this season (his "show me" season), but so far so good.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Quote:
I think, though they may never admit this, that they would be quite happy if Weeden implodes and they only win 3 or 4 games so they could get their QB.
Honestly, that may be too many wins in order to get our QB.
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Yeah. Jacksonville is major league bad. Oakland looked like they had a spine at least, last night. I mean that's pretty much the bar for bad football. Everyone else seems to be mediocre enough to be above or around that 6 win mark. Hard to project who else could just belly flop on the year.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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Jacksonville is complete garbage right now. They are the only team that I can say is legitimately worse than us. If we lose to them it would speak volumes.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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"Tempered enthusiasm" per Webster can mean, "less intense interest."
I still hold by the philosophy that the new owner is a shrewd businessman. The ownership has already capitalized on the renaming of the stadium. It is also counting on the fans continuing to buy tickets, sell-out the stadium, purchase mass quantities of licensed goods, and keep the money flowing in. Whether or not the revenue and cap space approved by the NFL is used for the betterment of the team is yet to be seen.
Yes, I have 'tempered enthusiasm' about the direction the Browns are heading this time - again - now - currently.
Never have hope. You won’t be disappointed.
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Quote:
"Tempered enthusiasm" per Webster can mean, "less intense interest."
I still hold by the philosophy that the new owner is a shrewd businessman. The ownership has already capitalized on the renaming of the stadium. It is also counting on the fans continuing to buy tickets, sell-out the stadium, purchase mass quantities of licensed goods, and keep the money flowing in. Whether or not the revenue and cap space approved by the NFL is used for the betterment of the team is yet to be seen.
Yes, I have 'tempered enthusiasm' about the direction the Browns are heading this time - again - now - currently.
Agreed. This FO has shown little interest in actually making this team better.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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Rubin was developed over the years. He was a late round pick who became one of the better DL in the NFL.
Craig Robertson was an UDFA who became a starting LB. THis year he had to change to become an ILB in the 3-4. His 1st game was promising. It is early. but he looks like a player there.
Billy Winn was a late round pick. He has become a very solid DL. He is better today than when he was drafted. He is disruptive and generally holds his edge effectively when he is in the game. I consider that effective player development.
Hughes may be more debatable, but he has become an effective DL. Remember when people lambasted the Browns for taking him in the 3rd round? Is he better than when he was drafted? I think so.
Kitchen isn't debatable. He was just a big, practice squad type guy when he came into the NFL. He is a capable backup, who can be disruptive. He's not a starter, but he has definitely improved and developed since he entered the NFL.
If you bring in a late round pick, and/or an UDFA, and you turn him into a guy who can play significant minutes (or even start effectively) for you, then you have developed him. Cameron may be on that same path. Like I said, it is still early for some of these guys, but thus far the early returns are good. It's hard to trumpet development when a guy has only played a year or 2 ..... but some of these guys have definitely shown development and improvement since they were drafted.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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It's no secret that the FO didn't think much of Weeden to begin with,and then not to give them any new weapons to work with on top of it? I think they really are looking to draft a new QB,and get a whole new offense.Fine by me too,because they stink and will never be more than a .500 team with that group.But if,your not committed to winning this year,at least give the fans a discount or something.
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Welcome back Kendall Storm!
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Quote:
Welcome back Kendall Storm!
Who is Kendall Storm?
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j/c Ytown  I think the problem with being a Browns fan is it is an insane amount of work to make your judgements unbiased. Compare our drafting to a team like the Patriots for example. Did we really do that badly? Their drafts have been awful at times. To properly evaluate the Browns you need to know the drafting history, current holes, and coaching histories of every team in the league. When we talk about Skrine or Gipson we need to know how they compare to every CB2 and FS in the league. When we argue about how much talent we have developed or how we rank as a team...I think it is important to have an insight, or much better cold hard facts, about how we genuinely compare to the entire league. I would argue that this is a superbowl contending team if we had an elite quarterback and some coaching consistency. Every team has a bunch of UDFA rookies this year. Every team has gaps at some positions. Look at the Pats WR's and tell me ours are awful. Or look at safeties around the league and tell me Gipson and Ward are a bad combo. It is likely next season we will have a 1st round rookie QB, a free agent CB #2, Lauvau or Pinky starting, and be contending for the playoffs. The difference between our team and the best in the league is that simple.
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Quote:
Quote:
Welcome back Kendall Storm!
Who is Kendall Storm?
YOU KNOW ... 
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"A QB, an overhaul of the secondary and some patches to the O-line should make us competitive, so all is not lost."
========================================================
You make it sound so simple. Tim Couch, Brady Quinn, and Brandon Weeden were first round selections. Not to mention Frye and McCoy third rounders.
In addition, to all the other garbage we tried at quarterback.
You have to get it right and the Browns have not been able to do that.
Kaepernick and Russell Wilson are great examples of true talent evaluation. They were there for the taking. If you know what you are looking for and at.
Banner, Lombardi, Chud, and Turner have one simple task on their collective plates find a quarterback.
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Tired of next year we will compete,
I'm to the point where I dont listen or read anything, I dont believe anything anymore...Just show me on the field what ya got thats all I believe in anything else is just blown hot air.
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Me too.
It seems like we never really hear about what's going on. I don't think that we're unique to that. Full-disclosure is never had in the NFL it seems.
It's why we have to come up with all the conspiracy theories an stuff.
I love the Browns and it's more a cultural event in my house than a sporting event. But I gotta tell you, and I never thought I'd say this but, I'm just naturally, without really trying, getting a tiny bit less interested in this stuff every year.
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#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Me too.
It seems like we never really hear about what's going on. I don't think that we're unique to that. Full-disclosure is never had in the NFL it seems.
It's why we have to come up with all the conspiracy theories an stuff.
I love the Browns and it's more a cultural event in my house than a sporting event. But I gotta tell you, and I never thought I'd say this but, I'm just naturally, without really trying, getting a tiny bit less interested in this stuff every year.
You and Clay have hit on where I've progressively been headed for the past couple of years. I love to see the team do well, and I'd love to have something to cheer about... but, I am well past the point of blindly getting fired up for this corporation when it cannot produce a product worth paying for. If this weren't sports and loyalty such an inherent animal, in ANY other market space, people would dump this company in a heartbeat for one that CAN produce a quality product.
Heck, at this point the Cleveland Browns "Football" has become a poster child for Vaporware.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I feel milked, just part of the herd to branded and exploited. Make me cheer and let me stop dreading Sundays (and Mondays and next Sunday). I am a fan, but this group has abused the trust for my money. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Is this what the FO meant by
"tempered enthusiasm?"
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