ODNR proposes elimination of important habitat protections in 8,000-acre Shawnee Forest Backcountry Area; Feds plan to open entire Blue Rock State Forest to fracking
Press Contact: Nathan Johnson, Staff Attorney for the Buckeye Forest Council: (614) 949-6622, Nathan@buckeyeforestcouncil.org
Shawnee Backcountry Area Threatened:
Reversing 14 years of management for habitat protection, the Ohio Division of Forestry (DOF) has announced plans to eliminate an 8,000 acre Backcountry Management Area (BCMA) in Shawnee State Forest in Scioto and Adams Counties. Conservation leaders believe the radical change in management will devalue the public's investment and threaten rare and endangered species, including the timber rattlesnake.
The Shawnee BCMA currently includes the following special protections not enjoyed by most of Ohio's state forest lands: (1) Two existing roads in the BCMA are closed to vehicular traffic; (2) clear-cuts are limited to 25 acres maximum; (3) cuts can only occur on a 250-year rotation cycle; (4) management must be coordinated with the Ohio Division of Natural Areas and Preserves and the Division of Wildlife to help protect state listed species; and (6) future recreational developments must be “low impact.” DOF is proposing to dissolve all of these protections along with the BCMA designation, itself, in favor of a new "Intensive Management" zoning designation.
“This is a big and unfortunate development that would shortchange both the public and some of the state's most sensitive species,” said Nathan Johnson, staff attorney for the Ohio-based Buckeye Forest Council.
According to ODNR surveys, the Backcountry Area is home to numerous sensitive and state-designated threatened and endangered species, including the timber rattlesnake, the small whorled pogonia (flowering plant), the river redhorse (fish), the bobcat, and the eastern box turtle. Black bear may also be present in the BCMA. The area borders Ohio’s only state-designated wilderness area, the 8,000 acre Shawnee Wilderness Area.
"How can state forest managers justify this wholesale reversal of protection? The state's own surveys confirm this backcountry management area is a refuge for several threatened species. So much for public involvement and the 'shelf life' of a Division of Forestry management plan," said Jack Shaner, Deputy Director and Senior Director of Legislative & Public Affairs for the Ohio Environmental Council.
“DOF’s plan to dissolve the BCMA would open one of Ohio’s most ecologically sensitive areas to significantly more logging and road traffic and would remove protections for threatened and endangered species. Already, Ohio ranks a measly 47th in public land available per citizen. Our state has a desperate need for more wild, protected habitat – not less,” added Johnson.
Rather than dissolve the BCMA, state conservation groups are calling on DOF to instead double down and protect it with a wilderness designation
“With September bringing the 25th anniversary of Ohio’s only state wilderness area and next year being the 50th anniversary of the Federal Wilderness Act, now is the perfect time for the State of Ohio to extend state wilderness protection to the Shawnee Backcountry Area,” said Johnson.
“This is the best time and the best place to expand our state’s protection of wilderness values,” said local resident Cheryl Carpenter. “The BCMA is like the twin brother of Ohio’s only existing wilderness area: it’s the same size, it has many of the same species and habitat types, and it’s in the same location,” added Carpenter.
“If you look at a map, the Shawnee Wilderness Area and the BCMA fit together perfectly like two puzzle pieces. The BCMA and its rare and endangered species are deserving of wilderness protection,” added Carpenter.
At some 60,000 acres, the Shawnee Forest is the largest of Ohio's 21 state forests. However, most of the Shawnee already is open to extensive logging.
“DOF has announced plans to sell 985 acres of logging rights in Shawnee this year,” said Bill Tipton of local forest group Save Our Shawnee Forest (SOS). “Not counting the protected 8,000 acre Wilderness Area, about 50,000 acres of Shawnee are today open to logging. If DOF continues its projected 2014 logging rate, the forest will be completely removed in about 50 years,” added Tipton.
DOF is holding an open house on its upcoming plans for Shawnee State Forest this Wednesday, July 31, from 4-7 p.m. at the Chillicothe District Office, 345 Allen Avenue, Chillicothe, Ohio 45601. For more information from DOF, call 740-774-1596. DOF is accepting written comments from the public on its plans for the BCMA at the event and for 30 days afterwards. Comments relating to Shawnee State Forest can be mailed to the above address or emailed to Forest Manager Nate Jester at Nathan.Jester@dnr.state.oh.us. The Shawnee management plan now up for public comment can be found here: Links not working correctly...see original page to see them.
Feds plan to sell mineral rights to frack entire Blue Rock State Forest:
In other news, Ohio conservation groups recently discovered that the federal Bureau of Land Management (BLM) is planning to sell oil and gas leases under 4,525 acres of Ohio’s Blue Rock State Forest in December. “This would put the entire forest under fracking leases,” said Johnson. Some 50 acres of the forest already have been leased in the past.
State conservation groups are unhappy that plans to open Blue Rock to drilling weren’t more widely shared with the public. “As far as we know, neither the news media nor the public has been contacted directly by DOF or BLM on this issue, despite the expiration of a 30-day comment period” said Johnson. “We were surprised when we found the announcement buried on a BLM website late last week,” added Johnson.
According to state conservation groups, both the state and federal governments need to take a closer look at the science before deciding whether to lease the public forest to industry. “Neither the feds nor the state have given any real consideration to what fracking Blue Rock might do to threatened and endangered species that live in the forest,” said Johnson.
"It's sad that ODNR apparently thinks extractive activities like logging and fracking are more important to Ohioans than enjoying and protecting our most precious natural spaces," said Jed Thorp, Chapter Manager with the Ohio Sierra Club.
“How does our Division of Forestry view the State of Ohio? Is it a place to reside and call home or is it an expendable piece of land for easy money?,” asked Eric Miller, director of Mohican Advocates, Inc. “Alienating patrons by fracking and timbering the land set aside for relaxation and rejuvenation is nothing more than short-term profiteering. If Ohioans are to have a place worthy of sharing with future generations, DOF must plan for the future, not just for their pocketbooks,” added Miller.
DOF is holding an open house on its upcoming plans for Blue Rock State Forest this Wednesday, July 31, from 4-7 p.m. at the Chillicothe District Office, 345 Allen Avenue, Chillicothe, Ohio 45601. For more information from DOF, call 740-774-1596. DOF is accepting written comments from the public on its plans for Blue Rock at the event and for 30 days afterwards. Comments relating to Blue Rock State Forest can be mailed to the above address or emailed to Forest Manager Nate Jester at [Email]Nathan.Jester@dnr.state.oh.us.[/Email] The Blue Rock management plan up for public comment can be found here: Links not working well on DT, see link below.
Face value: I hate it. I think that once you designate an area for wildlife that there should be no going back on that.
Conversely, this area was set aside in 1999 simply as a wildlife management area and to allow walk-in hunting, recreation, and critter viewing.
Overall, I think that this is sad. We're going to lose a lot of trails and "God's Country" and there isn't anything we can do about it. It is quite clear that deals have been made and this is going to happen. Basically, the areas will now be opened to fracking, and closed to the public.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
This is the part that gets me...Ohio already has very little public land/wildlife area...
Quote: “DOF’s plan to dissolve the BCMA would open one of Ohio’s most ecologically sensitive areas to significantly more logging and road traffic and would remove protections for threatened and endangered species. Already, Ohio ranks a measly 47th in public land available per citizen. Our state has a desperate need for more wild, protected habitat – not less,” added Johnson.
When all the trees have been cut down, when all the animals have been hunted, when all the waters are polluted, when all the air is unsafe to breathe, only then will you discover you cannot eat money. ~ Cree Prophecy
Quote: Humans sure do know how to destroy this planet...I'll give us that.
Not all humans. But enough humans, with enough power and wealth to gain some control do.
Right, it's all the fault of the rich people.. it has nothing to do with Joe Schmoe that wants sub $4 gas or cheap lumber or other cheap products and services, it's all the rich peoples fault.
Guess what, if people are going to clamor about how we need to be energy independent and how we need to buy American made products then the raw materials for those things have to come from somewhere.... but nobody wants them to come from their own backyard.
Save the caribou, protect the spotted owls, deep water drilling is too dangerous, wind turbines kill the birds, fracking will contaminate the ground water, nuclear reactors leave waste that lasts forever, large dams force people out of their homes, coal mines and coal factories are dirty... but hey, let's be energy independent anyway... good luck with that.
I'm not saying we shouldn't respect and protect the environment, I'm not saying this plan is a good idea but at some point, something has to give because you can't have it all...
It's like everybody wants criminals off the street but nobody wants to live near a prison.... Everybody puts their trash cans out once a week for pick-up and nobody cares where it goes as long as it leaves THEIR neighborhood.... Everybody wants cheap airfare but nobody wants planes landing and taking off over their home.....
Quote: Humans sure do know how to destroy this planet...I'll give us that.
We're not destroying the planet, we're destroying ourselves.
Ourselves and wildlife. Guess it doesn't really matter...we'll be gone, so who cares.
The planet will evolve. Wild life will evolve. We will die out.
The planet and nature was here long before us, and will be here long after us.
Serious question .....
If evolution is real, why do so many species go extinct, or are in danger of doing so if we don't take extreme measures to protect them? There have been some pretty horrific disasters that have destroyed entire sections of the planet in the past, yet evolution says that species adapted to survive ..... yet man is killing off species in a wholesale manner, and not one of them can adapt at all, nor can they survive without our help.
Now, with that question out of my head ...... I will say that I believe that we should have protected wildlife areas, and that those areas need to be maintained over time. Just because they are wild areas, does not mean that they should be allowed to become tinderboxes that can burn at a moment's notice. These areas should be carefully, and in a very controlled manner, cleared down to the topsoil, and replanted. This eliminates the buildup of debris from trees .... like leaves ... needles ........ dead branches ...... dead trees ..... and so on that turn into some of the most flammable stuff on earth. A forest can mature and remain stable for somewhere between 150-250 years, so that seems like a reasonable timetable for clearing out sections in a preventative manner.
As far as fracking goes, I can see some sense in using some public lands for fracking, but not in the middle of a forest area. I do believe that natural habitats should be protected, and that the species who inhabit those lands should not be chased out of their homes. I do believe that fracking can be done safely, because fracking has a long history of being done in a safe manner. However, I do not know what impact blasting into the ground would have on animals who live in the area. I would guess that it would cause unnatural changes in where they live, probably trying to get away from noise and vibration, which could cause other problems. Maybe a good compromise would be to clear an area for replanting, and do fracking at the same time? The fracking operation would have a limited stay, and would have to be gone, with their impact on the area reversed, within a given timeframe. I don't think that fracking would cause problems for saplings planted to replace a harvested and cleared forest.
I do think that there can be compromises that can protect and improve the natural environment while still allowing for industry to prosper. All too often these 2 are seen as an "either or" proposition, and I don't think that they have to be.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: If evolution is real, why do so many species go extinct, or are in danger of doing so if we don't take extreme measures to protect them? There have been some pretty horrific disasters that have destroyed entire sections of the planet in the past, yet evolution says that species adapted to survive ..... yet man is killing off species in a wholesale manner, and not one of them can adapt at all, nor can they survive without our help.
Well going on the assumption that evolution is real, and to some degree I believe it is. It takes long periods of time and many generations for adaptations to happen. Mankind is killing off species faster than that could/would happen.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
Quote: I do believe that natural habitats should be protected, and that the species who inhabit those lands should not be chased out of their homes.
Where are they being chased to? There is no more land. That might help answer your first question.
The natural forests cannot maintain themselves though. Once a forest passes into maturity, it becomes more and more likely to burn over time.Debris builds up year after year as leaves, branched, needles, and dead timber all gather on the forest ground. When they burn, animals are chased out of their natural habitats as well. The difference is that one way can manage this process, and make use of the resources the forest offers, and the other way can just watch it all go up in smoke.
This is why the wilderness areas out west burn so damned often, They are allowed to grow into massive undergrowth conditions that create such highly flammable material that one spark sends the whole thing up. Careful harvesting of the land, and replanting afterwards could help eliminate this risk for huge sections of forest for a good century or 2.
I believe that we have a responsibility to manage natural lands. So many people think that natural lands should be left alone, but that causes far more problems than it prevents. Think of how many firemen, ordinary people, and animals have been killed over the past 20 years fighting forest fires that could have been prevented through careful land management, Think of how much other property damage could have been prevented as well. Plus, think of how many jobs could have been created. I am NOT advocating cutting down every forest .... and/or at the same time. What I am suggesting is that old growth forests be cleared in carefully managed sections, and replanted, so that they will remain healthy, vibrant, and vital areas.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
There is a particular species of pine that only sprouts after the seeds have been heated in a fire. There are also some animals whose prime habitat is this particular type of tree. Forest fires are a natural thing.
Some years ago I helped coach a Little League team, and on the main field there was a burrowing owl hole. About like a gopher hole, right in center field where 8-10 year old kids are running full-out, looking at the sky. Clearly a danger, yet we were not allowed to remove it.
I don't know how rare the burrowing owl really is, but they are quite common around here. Leaving one in a kid's ball field is really going too far.
Quote: The natural forests cannot maintain themselves though. (snip to end) What I am suggesting is that old growth forests be cleared in carefully managed sections, and replanted, so that they will remain healthy, vibrant, and vital areas.
Yes....I agree with you. What does that have to do with the lands in Ohio being given to fracking and logging?
Quote: The natural forests cannot maintain themselves though. (snip to end) What I am suggesting is that old growth forests be cleared in carefully managed sections, and replanted, so that they will remain healthy, vibrant, and vital areas.
Yes....I agree with you. What does that have to do with the lands in Ohio being given to fracking and logging?
Exactly what I said.
Forests have to be cleared once even couple of centuries in order to keep them healthy. If we cut out swaths of forest that allow for animals in the area to move into a nearby area, then we can manage risk with a minimal impact upon animals. The land can be cleared by loggers, and then completely cleared out to be replanted. While the new forest is growing, then fracking can take place. on the edges of the cleared area. I wouldn't let companies go into the center of the wilderness and frack, but doing so on the edges of the wilderness area could probably work out safely.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Okay...but that's not how I read everything in my original post. Did I miss something? I understand forest management, it just sounds like they are going to be able to do whatever they please here.
Sorry, that was how I would handle it ..... not necessarily how they will.
Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
A few evolution in our lifetime examples to chew on: antibiotic resistant bacteria ( we all know MRSA too well here), elephants are being born without tusk genes at an increasing rate due to poaching, fish in the hudson river are becoming genetically immune to pollution, due to environmental pressures polar bears have been cross breeding with grizzlies in some areas, lizards introdced to an island in croatia 50 years ago switched from carnivorus to omnivorous by evolving new spincters to slow down their digestion, famously the moths in coal era london went from looking like moss to looking white and black.
A few others I know of that aren't genetic: dogs in moscow have learned how to use the subways, lizards i think in the southwest have started dancing to avoid fireants which were previously annihilating them.
I was thinking about MRSA recently as a really clear example of evolution and it made me happy. Dealing with archeology and stuff is kind of heady and impersonal. Nearly everyone knows about MRSA and how it has evolved.
On the wildlife topic: I don't really know enough to comment. I tend to rank the importance of nature and wildlife as unimportant. I do care about things that might effect humans like air and water quality though.
Quote: I understand forest management, it just sounds like they are going to be able to do whatever they please here.
I don't know any specifics of this action but I will say that the article leads you to believe that. The first thing that I noticed when I read the article was that they had 100 quotes from various politicians and environmentalists who oppose this and not a single quote by anybody who supports it or wanted to defend it. I didn't bring that up because I didn't want this discussion to be about the tone of the article or some perceived bias...
If this is a concern for you, and it clearly is, then you should try to find more information on exactly how they plan to implement this thing.... there is a chance that it's not as bad as you think it is... and I hope it's not.
Quote: If evolution is real, why do so many species go extinct, or are in danger of doing so if we don't take extreme measures to protect them? There have been some pretty horrific disasters that have destroyed entire sections of the planet in the past, yet evolution says that species adapted to survive ..... yet man is killing off species in a wholesale manner, and not one of them can adapt at all, nor can they survive without our help.
Well going on the assumption that evolution is real, and to some degree I believe it is. It takes long periods of time and many generations for adaptations to happen. Mankind is killing off species faster than that could/would happen.
Evolution over millions of years would be useless, because the climate changes more frequently than that over just thousands of years. Heck, in our recorded and verifiable history, we have gone through an ice age, a fertile warm period, a mini ice age, and global warming. How could/would any species evolve to new abilities over millions of years with the environment in such constant flux? They evolve to a warm climate, but 2 ice ages take place inside of a few thousand years .... so they adapt to the colder climate ..... but the ice age ends and ice caps recede to the polar caps ....... so the have to evolve back to being suitable in a warmer climate ......
Evolution would have to be close to instantaneous in order to be useful. The climate simply is not stable enough to support a single line of long, long term evolution.The climate has been a yo-yo throughout the ages. Millenia long evolutions would be useless, because we haven't had those massive and extended periods of stable climate going back what ..... 400,000 years? We warm, and cool ... we freeze over ..... and thaw to create fertile lands ...... rivers are created that attract life ..... and they dry up and deserts either chase off, or kill off the animals and people who stay behind ....... .
Sure if we are talking about climate ability changes, but evolution can be anything from vision adjustments, skin color (yes, our skin color was an evolutionary change based on the climate/sun we lived in), other minor changes. Humans have adapted and live in many climates, but we have the ability to create and manufacture.
Also during ice ages there are still warmer southern regions, the entire earth was not under ice.
And what is to say that cats haven't had some small evolutionary change in the last 20-50 years.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
If this is a concern for you, and it clearly is, then you should try to find more information on exactly how they plan to implement this thing.... there is a chance that it's not as bad as you think it is... and I hope it's not.
Fracking is a concern. From what little I admittedly know, it's dangerous and untested. I'm very worried about our groundwater from this process. As far as finding out more...I will. I'm educating myself on all of it little by little.
By Spencer Hunt The Columbus Dispatch Wednesday July 31, 2013 6:32 AM
A federal agency’s plan to open Blue Rock State Forest to fracking was put on hold yesterday after state officials said they didn’t know about it.
The U.S. Bureau of Land Management had planned a Dec. 12 public auction to lease 4,525 acres of mineral rights beneath the 4,578-acre state forest and two townships in Muskingum County.
The decision to suspend that auction was made after Ohio Department of Natural Resources officials told the bureau that they had not given their consent, said Bethany McCorkle, an agency spokeswoman.
“They never asked for it,” McCorkle said. “There was a miscommunication.”
That doesn’t mean the state won’t eventually approve the plan.
“The next step is to get all the information to make sure we are on the same page,” McCorkle said. “We’ve committed to working with them and we think it could be a good partnership.”
She said the agency wants to make sure threats to the forest and wildlife are minimized.
Still, the delay was cheered by environmental advocates, who complained on Monday that the public didn’t get a chance to comment.
“Good for them,” Nathan Johnson, staff attorney for the Buckeye Forest Council said of Natural Resources officials.
Johnson said he discovered the planned sale on a Bureau of Land Management website that lists parcels for oil and gas lease sales. A subsequent link leads to documents that identify Blue Rock.
The planned auction was posted in March, and a 30-day comment period expired April 25. No comments were filed.
Proposals for fracking in government forests and parks have drawn public protests. The fracking process pumps millions of gallons of water, sand and chemicals underground to shatter shale and free trapped oil and gas.
Environmental groups say it’s a pollution threat; industry officials insist it’s safe. Oil and gas companies have offered landowners signing bonuses of $2,000 to $5,000 for leases.
McCorkle said ODNR officials were aware that Land Management officials were working on an environmental assessment for oil and gas drilling in the forest, but had no idea that an auction had been scheduled.
Jack Shaner, an Ohio Environmental Council lobbyist, said the next step is for the public to get its chance to comment. web page
Someone knew about this...who has the power to just dissolve protected habitat?...Gov. Kasich...
This smells...sounds like a sweetheart deal for campaign donations...glad the deal was stopped so everyone could figure out the impact a move of this magnitude might have the "once protected" environment.
Don't the citizens of Ohio have a say in such matters?
Quote: Someone knew about this...who has the power to just dissolve protected habitat?...Gov. Kasich...
This smells...sounds like a sweetheart deal for campaign donations...glad the deal was stopped so everyone could figure out the impact a move of this magnitude might have the "once protected" environment.
Don't the citizens of Ohio have a say in such matters?
They should at least have the opportunity to review, evaluate, and comment.
This brings up a bigger point about notification... what constitutes adequate notification? If you post something on an obscure website and nobody involved really knows to go look for it can you say that you did your due diligence in making notification?
I won't go so far as to implicate the governor without a shred of evidence that he knew or could have known or even should have known... but I'm sure the interest groups will dig deeper into who knew what and when and let us know if it smells bad....
Right, it's all the fault of the rich people.. it has nothing to do with Joe Schmoe that wants sub $4 gas or cheap lumber or other cheap products and services, it's all the rich peoples fault.
The fact is that Joe Shmoe may want something, but it's not within his power to make that happen. So how can you blame Joe Shmoe for "wanting something"?
And as far as rich people you seem to paint that with a very broad brush. That was not my intention. I think you know that though. There are people that are rich who control most major energy sources. They are a small minority of rich people, but they are rich.
There is good and bad with every group of people. Rich or poor, there's really no exception to that rule.
Quote: Guess what, if people are going to clamor about how we need to be energy independent and how we need to buy American made products then the raw materials for those things have to come from somewhere.... but nobody wants them to come from their own backyard.
I do agree but the fact is, we're back to what people want again. Once again, Joe Shmoe has very little say in what happens verses what he wants. If you're trying to excuse the powers that be for what "Joe Shmoe wants", I think you'll find Joe Shmoe wants a lot that he doesn't get.
The major power players pick and choose what Joe Shmoe gets, not Joe Shmoe.
Quote: Save the caribou, protect the spotted owls, deep water drilling is too dangerous, wind turbines kill the birds, fracking will contaminate the ground water, nuclear reactors leave waste that lasts forever, large dams force people out of their homes, coal mines and coal factories are dirty... but hey, let's be energy independent anyway... good luck with that.
I don't feel luck plays a major part here. It's already built into our laws that energy companies do not have to answer to EPA. You pretty much have to prove they're doing major harm, rather than them prove what they're doing is safe.
The total opposite of what would be in the best interest of our planet. There has to be some kind of balance here.
Quote: I'm not saying we shouldn't respect and protect the environment, I'm not saying this plan is a good idea but at some point, something has to give because you can't have it all...
I believe if you would look and see, natural gas companies have been given free reign to frack with little to no proof it is safe nor what the long term effect it will have on the planet. We're not really that far apart here.
I believe there must be a balance here. But when you have a very small segment of our society being given card blanche to pretty much pillage, there is no balance there.
Quote: It's like everybody wants criminals off the street but nobody wants to live near a prison.... Everybody puts their trash cans out once a week for pick-up and nobody cares where it goes as long as it leaves THEIR neighborhood.... Everybody wants cheap airfare but nobody wants planes landing and taking off over their home.....
While this may be true, our airports are there and operating, land fills operate and the prison system has grown by leaps and bounds.
Which is why I say that people may grumble, but things continue. Once again, what Joe Shmoe wants and what he gets are two different things entirely and I really haven't seen many cases where Joe Shmoe actually has any say in dictating which things he does and doesn't get.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Man is responsible for an ungodly loss of wildlife habitat and the slaughter of animals near the point of extinction. To call it nonsense and to call those that recognize this "environmental nut jobs" is being ignorant to the facts at hand.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
This is little more than a rationalization of our pollution and destruction.
With that said... I'm not really looking to save the whales at this point. For what? A novelty? To feel better? So I can look at it in a box or listen to David Attenborough talk about them?
We've either destroyed or taken over a lot of these species ecosystems... there's not much point in keeping them around, sadly. We don't really interact with them outside of the fact that we want them to live for posterity.
Quote: With that said... I'm not really looking to save the whales at this point. For what? A novelty? To feel better? So I can look at it in a box or listen to David Attenborough talk about them?
We've either destroyed or taken over a lot of these species ecosystems... there's not much point in keeping them around, sadly. We don't really interact with them outside of the fact that we want them to live for posterity.
Wow.. posterity huh? I interact with with wildlife. I backpack, camp, fish, hunt.. and I'd like to see them survive. Whales have a part in the ecosystem that is the planet Earth. Wow just Wow.
Quote: This is little more than a rationalization of our pollution and destruction.
With that said... I'm not really looking to save the whales at this point. For what? A novelty? To feel better? So I can look at it in a box or listen to David Attenborough talk about them?
We've either destroyed or taken over a lot of these species ecosystems... there's not much point in keeping them around, sadly. We don't really interact with them outside of the fact that we want them to live for posterity.
Are you SERIOUS?!?!?! This could be one of the saddest things I have ever read on this board.
I'm educating myself on all of it little by little.
