DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Weeden Prepares For Competition

I wonder what it is exactly that he's doing. He better be studying defenses and getting his brain wrapped around seeing the field.

Weeden prepares for competition

Posted Feb 26, 2013

By Matt Florjancic, Staff Writer

Brandon Weeden has focused his offseason efforts on improving while working out in Oklahoma.

Since the Cleveland Browns’ new coaches and front-office staff took over in January, they have spoken of creating competition at quarterback.

That’s just fine with last year’s starter, Brandon Weeden.

The second-year quarterback, in Cleveland Monday to sign autographs for fans at the Ford Display at the 2013 Cleveland Auto Show inside the I-X Center, said he welcomes the competition that will come in the Browns’ backfield.

“This game is all about competing,” Weeden said. “(Coach Rob Chudzinski) will tell me the same thing. They’re going to put the best players on the field, and that goes for the quarterback position. I’ve got to show that I’ve improved in year two and that’s why I’ve been working my tail off for the last two months.

“As a competitor, you want to compete. Whether it’s a quarterback, receiver, safety, whatever, you want competition because it makes you a better player, and it makes the team better. I’m open to it. It’s my job to get better and it’s my job to make this football team a better football team starting Week One.”

Weeden completed 297 of 517 attempts for 3,385 yards and 14 touchdowns against 17 interceptions in 15 starts last fall. A first-round pick out of Oklahoma State in 2012, Weeden missed the final game of the year because of a shoulder injury he suffered in a loss at Denver on Dec. 23.

“I completely expect to be the starter,” Weeden said. “I’m confident in my ability to be the guy to lead this football team. Everybody that I talk to that’s a veteran in this league, they say, ‘Your biggest jump in this league is from year one to year two because you know what to expect.’ This is a tough league. You face so much adversity in year one because everybody you’re playing against is so good.”

Earlier in his career, Browns offensive coordinator Norv Turner held the same position with the Dallas Cowboys and led the offense on back-to-back Super Bowl championship teams (1992-93). Three of Turner’s players from those Cowboys offenses -- quarterback Troy Aikman, running back Emmitt Smith and wide receiver Michael Irvin -- are enshrined in the Pro Football Hall of Fame in Canton, Ohio, and Smith retired as the game’s all-time leading rusher.

Weeden said he is “excited about the future” of working with and being challenged by Turner. The former head coach of the Washington Redskins, Oakland Raiders and San Diego Chargers, took over as the Browns’ offensive coordinator on Jan. 17, 2013.

“That’s the way it should be,” Weeden said of being challenged. “That’s the way I’m going to approach it anyway. I’m going to challenge myself. I know what to expect. I’m not going into my first camp anymore. I kind of know how it works, as far as the daily schedule. Now, it’s all I can do to be dialed in, get focused on what we’re trying to do. I’m going to have to run a whole new offense, and there’s no time to sit back and relax. It’s full steam ahead once I get my hands on a playbook. I’m ready to get challenged. They’ve already said they’re going to challenge me, and as a player, that’s all I want.

“(Turner does) a lot of stuff to fit the skill sets of the guys around (him) and I think my skill set is throwing the ball down the field, throwing the ball and giving our receivers a chance to make plays vertically. I’m excited about that. It’s going to be fun.”

[url= http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...ff18]Link[/url]

The first thing I'd do is find someone familiar with the Norv Turner system and terminology and fly them to Oklahoma or fly to them to spend 2-3 days talking about the broadbrush points of the offense.

Once you understand that you can start working on the fine points. It would have to be a good thing to have a basic understanding before you ever saw the playbook.

I'd also hire Bernie to work with me on reading D's in the film room. He needs the money and is willing to help the Browns in any way he can. Pay him $100 a hour for 40-50 hours in the film room. Weeden has enough money he can get a place in Cleveland for a couple of weeks and sit with Bernie 2-3-4 hours a day.

But, that's what I'd do.

Good article on his shortcomings raises the question as to whether Weeden has the ability to improve. Does he have a head for the game at this level?

Cleveland Browns QB Brandon Weeden faces a serious learning curve in 2013: D-Man's World analysis

A growing sense of indecision as Brandon Weeden faced NFL defenses during the second half of the 2012 Browns season remains the area in which the team's second-year QB needs to show rapid improvement.

Dennis Manoloff, The Plain Dealer By Dennis Manoloff, The Plain Dealer
on February 26, 2013 at 6:20 PM

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Anyone who watched Brandon Weeden closely last season should not be surprised that a teammate would claim he struggled to read defenses.

NFL Network's Steve Wyche -- as detailed by Mary Kay Cabot today -- has reported that Browns running back Trent Richardson told him Weeden "really had trouble reading defenses from time to time and they had to skew their offense a little bit, sometimes somewhat predictable."

Richardson, the third pick in the 2012 draft, spoke the truth about his quarterback, the 22nd pick. Weeden did, indeed, have trouble diagnosing coverages during a rocky rookie season.

As author of the Browns QB Report Card for The Plain Dealer and cleveland.com, I watched every Weeden dropback at least three times from a DVR of the game telecast. I did not see a quarterback who seemed to grasp what the defense was trying to do -- especially in the second half of the year, when even incremental improvement could be expected.

But I didn't play quarterback in the NFL, and recognize it is arguably the most demanding position in pro team sports. So I made sure to listen intently to the analysts, former NFL players and coaches who know the game inside and out, to find out if my eyes were lying.

They weren't.

The most telling of all the assessments of Weeden's mental game came from Rich Gannon, who threw for 28,743 yards in his NFL career and was MVP in 2002. Gannon was none too pleased with Weeden during a Week 9 loss to the Ravens in Cleveland. Weeden finished 20-of-37 for 176 yards and two interceptions in a 25-15 loss.
weeden-portrait-cboys-2012-jk.jpg View full size Will Brandon Weeden’s mental game improve? Will he be able to silence the critics who say he is a baseball player playing football, thereby lacking the necessary instinct and feel for the latter? John Kuntz, The Plain Dealer

Early in the contest, Gannon said: "He's late moving through his progressions, which makes him late to his outlet, which is the back. He's got to play faster, he's got to see things. The game has not slowed down. He talks about it being slow, but, you see him right now. He's missed some open receivers. ... You've got to be able to throw [receivers] open sometimes. Weeden's got to play better."

Early in the third quarter, the Browns had a second-and-3 at the Baltimore 44. Weeden threw over the middle intended for tight end Jordan Cameron at the 20. Ravens safety Ed Reed nearly intercepted. Gannon fumed as CBS went to a sky view that showed receiver Josh Gordon open in the middle at the 40, with room to run.

Gannon said: "I'm not going to pick on the quarterback, but look, this is just getting to be ridiculous. [Gordon] is wide open. And you can't throw the ball down here, where they've got extra defenders. Ed Reed should have picked that one off."

There was more, but you get the idea: Gannon didn't like what he was seeing. This wasn't Week 1 against the Eagles, when a chunk of Weeden's awful performance could be attributed to debut jitters. This was Week 9, against a team he already had seen. (As it turned out, Weeden played much better against a healthier Ravens defense in Week 4.)

Another glaring example was Week 15 against Washington. Weeden was thoroughly outplayed by Redskins backup Kirk Cousins, in part because he failed to solve the riddles of coordinator Jim Haslett's defense.

So the question is not whether Weeden had problems reading defenses, but why?

Part of it had to do with being a rookie, no question. Rookie QBs are supposed to be overwhelmed by the amount of data flowing through their heads and helmets. Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III and Russell Wilson all periodically fell victim last year.

Part of it had to do with the system, and the coaching that does or does not come with it. Weeden and his skill set clearly were not comfortable in this particular version of the West Coast offense. To believe T-Rich, former head coach Pat Shurmur and offensive coordinator Brad Childress were forced to scale back what they wanted to do because Weeden wasn't getting it, and because he was vulnerable to interceptions.

Part had to do with defenses making an adjustment. In most of his first eight games, Weeden faced a steady flow of blitzes and handled them reasonably well, all things considered. Among the reasons: quick release and good offensive line.

Beginning in Week 9, however, defenses dropped more linebackers into coverage and faked more blitzes from the safeties and corners. They did not have as many rushers, on average, at the time the pass was made. Ravens coordinator Dean Pees established the blueprint after Week 4, when Weeden threw for 320 yards even with multiple dropped passes.

Once coordinators challenged Weeden to throw into tighter windows, he never really responded. He kept hesitating and double-pumping, then checking down.

And part of it had to do with the player. Only Weeden and a handful of others truly know if it was the biggest part. He consistently was late getting his team to the line -- coaches were culpable, too -- thereby severely reducing Weeden's ability to gauge what defenses were doing.

When he did get to the line in plenty of time, he rarely seemed to recognize where pressure was coming from, as pointed out by Gannon and other analysts. Weeden rarely, if ever, audibled. Upon taking the snaps, he did not trust himself enough to throw into tight windows or throw receivers open, especially in the middle of the field.

Will Weeden's mental game improve? Will he be able to silence the critics who say he is a baseball player playing football, thereby lacking the necessary instinct and feel for the latter?

I now have my doubts. But at least Weeden has a new coach (Rob Chudzinski), offensive coordinator (Norv Turner) and system (vertical/power) that figure to better suit him; combined with the natural growth of a player from year one to year two; combined with an offensive line that knows how to pass block.

If it doesn't happen quickly under Chudzinski and Turner, it probably is not going to happen at all.

Link

How long has Chud and Norv been hired now? And Weeden still doesn't have a playbook? That's what I got out of that article.

They aren't allowed to give him a playbook.

he's playing the carolina panthers on madden and using derek anderson as a stand-in for himself.

This should just be a given. An NFL QB probably isn't in the right mindset if he has to reroute his train of thought to include preparing competition

I know Cam Newton worked with Ken Dorsey. Ken Dorsey is now employed by the Carolina Panthers, so that is probably not an option.

Call me stupid if you want, but why can't they give him a pla{book? The players are not locked out, he is under contract. Is this a dead period or something?

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I'd be surprised if he doesn't have a playbook

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He does. It says, "Step 1: Find open man. Step 2: Throw to open man. Step 3: Repeat. If all else fails, see step one."

Browns | Brandon Weeden working with Chris Weinke
Mon, 04 Mar 2013 17:30:28 -0800

Cleveland Browns QB Brandon Weeden has been working with former NFL quarterback Chris Weinke this offseason, and Weinke is impressed with what he sees. "Brandon's got a special arm, no doubt," said Weinke, the former Heisman winner and Panthers quarterback. "I'm very impressed with him. I'm excited to see how he continues to develop and I think the future is bright for Brandon Weeden."

Link

I like Weeden, I think he will be just fine ... JMHO

I hope I am wrong, but I am not a fan of Weeden.

--I don't think he reads defenses at the LOS well, as evidenced by his lack of calling audibles.

--He is terrible at reading coverages, as evidenced by how long he holds the ball. Thank goodness we have a very good pass blocking OL.

--I don't think he studies the game, as evidenced by the guy who was on the OK. State staff.

--I don't think he is gutty, as evidenced by him throwing the ball out of bounds on 4th down rather than taking a hit and also sliding down on 3rd down w/only a mere two yards to pick up.

--I think he is gun shy in the pocket and doesn't stand in there.

--I think his pocket presence is terrible.

--He lacks anticipation. He doesn't throw guys open.

--I hated that he threw his coaches under the bus when he said they never practiced a certain play that particular week. It was the stinking end of the game and we needed to score to win and he is worried about the last time they practiced a play? Really?

Again, I hope I am wrong.......but, I doubt I am.

Come on Vers your bummin me out ...

I was not a fan of his selection and I'm still not a fan of where we drafted him....

But I became a fan.

He does some things well. He has obvious god-given talent.

I really hope that Chud/Turner bring out the player that we saw at Okie St.

I think they will.

If he can't succeed this year under their tutelage then we wiffed and can comfortably move on with a first round QB in 2014.

You could add to that the time that he stated on Twitter that he couldn't run Chip Kelly's offense when the media was reporting that it was all but done that Kelly would be the Browns next head coach.

I think he has the arm, I just don't think he has the head. Nothing at the qb position matters more than the ability to read defenses, that simple. He is going to have to show some serious leaps and bounds in that area to get our offense on the right track.

He was a rookie in a complicated new system while having to spend half of his focus on the mechanics of dropping back.

I don't know if he has the head or not to be a great Qb but I wouldn't say he couldn't just from last season.

Toad and Vers I like and agree with your honest evaluation on Weeden. Being that it doesnt sound like either or you think he is the long term answer, what is the best option moving forward? What do you guys think of Geno Smith at 6? I personally like his accuarcy and athleticness but have concerns about his long term durability. Is he a franchise guy? Im not positive.

Is there another QB you think could be the guy in the draft or FA or do we just wait it out another year?

Welcome to the boards, Penny.

I'd start by noting that I like Smith better than any other QB in this draft, and I'm certain he's going to be the first one taken. However, I believe his numbers are badly inflated due to WV's version of the Pistol-Spread. He does have very good athletic ability, though I also think that's a bit over-stated as well. When he gets to the NFL the near-escapes he made in college won't be there, and all the extra time he took waiting to make plays won't exist in 2013. In watching his games he was almost always a one-read QB, and many of his reads were off play-acting out of the Pistol. On the surface the throws looked very impressive until you really notice that he never actually looked off safeties or 'backers. In the NFL those windows won't exist.

Something that has become problematic over the last decade with the rapid implementation of spread offenses is the ability to get really good evaluations on QB's. It's very easy to cover for and disguise the holes in the games of people like Brady Quinn and Brandon Weeden, and even the best NFL evaluators can't tell a Sam Bradford from a Colt McCoy because their numbers look so similar.

So back to Smith. He's not in the same class as an RG3, which was a guy I really loved as a passer. The accuracy isn't there, nor is the ability as a natural thrower. However, having said that, Smith does share a positive trait with RG3, which is that he truly is a throwing QB who can run, not a running QB who can throw. His eyes are always downfield, even when he's moving around in the pocket. He has a quick, compact release, and reminds me a little of Steve McNair, if I have to put a comparison to a name people would recognize. He may end up going much higher in the draft specifically because of the newest gadget in the NFL which is the read-option. I would say that 6 is WAY too high for Smith, except when I see a team like the Eagles. Sure, they signed Vick, but how much time does he have left in the league? How many full seasons does he have under his belt? Nick Foles can't run the read-option. If Chip Kelly wants a long-term read-option guy, Smith is the best bet. But that's a digression on my part.

Smith should be the only QB taken in the first, and even then not before the bottom of the 1st round if people grade him solely on where he's at in terms of QB'ing a traditional NFL offense while evaluating the offense he came from in college.

As for your question about our future starter, I'd love to hope that Weeds surprises me and can give us at least 3-4 years as a quality starter while we build up the team. However, the odds are against that. To me, this draft is filled with about 8 developmental QB's who grade out in the 2nd-4th round area. Smith is the best-bet guy, but there are no surefire franchise guys in this draft. I'd imagine we're going to go after a Moore or someone of his caliber as insurance for Weeds. If he falters, he's gone by next year and we're staring at the 2014 draft in the hopes that a guy is there. Of course it's become obvious Haslam and this regime want to come out with a big splash in their first year of stewardship, so seeing them move up into the top of the 2nd if Barkley is there wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Toad thanks for the breakdown on Smith. I only saw highlights of him throughout the season and he looked the part. I remember at one point he had more TD's than Incomplete passes and video game stats, which I always question coming from the big 12. They always seem to have QBs with huge stats whose games dont translate well to the pros.

I would hate to see us jump up or trade back into the 2nd for Barkley. IMO hes a Claussen clone. Doesnt have a great arm, never quite lived up to the hype. I dont see him as a leader. I also hate USC so take that into account.

As for Weeden, I will be honest I hated the pick. It was an overreaction to missing out on Bob Griffin and seeing the WR we were targeting fall from the board. I really wanted Decastro, or Reiff and was disgusted when the pick came in. Felt better after the Schwartz pick.

I hope Weeden is the answer but I think, with a weak draft class and no real FA options, the best option maybe we should go after Mallett. Maybe our 3rd this year and a 4th that can move up to a 3rd next year.

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I also hate USC so take that into account.

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Noted, and applauded.

Geno and Barkley are late round talents but they could make #6 a good position in the draft with the Cards, Bills and Jets at 7,8 and 9.

I know a lot of people dont like landry Jones but I think the kid can be great in this scheme. I also really like EJ Maneul. I think they end up the best QBs in this draft class. Barkley is WCO specific. Geno just really doesnt seem that special to me. I dont see it.

It was stupid to draft Weeden to run Shurmur's offense. I think the guy did fantastic considering he had never taken a snap from under center and never ran anything close to what he was being ask to run.

Weeden will be better under chud. The question is how much better. He will get his shot but he I really have doubts as to whether or not he can beat out one of those rookie QBs.

I understand all of the Django. Again, I am not guaranteeing he won't make it. I just think he has some things that are hard to teach.

You don't teach anticipation. it's difficult to improve one's pocket presence. While you can help guys learn to read defenses pre-snap, it's hard to read coverages post-snap.

I think Weeden can overcome some of his other flaws, but those i just addressed are going to be hard to significantly improve.

The other thing.......has anyone seen "it" from this guy? Heck, even Colt played better at the end of games, scrambling around, making throws to move us downfield. Has anyone seen even a glimpse of this from Weeden? I haven't.

I hope I am wrong and I admit I very well could be. Let's hope so.

I've watched Jones closely and my issue with him is how he reacts to pressure in his face..he panics. I'm also concerned with his mental toughness of the game.
As far as Weeden goes, I didn't have a issue with the Browns drafting him, I had a issue how they handled him in the TC's and preseason..he looked ill-prepared to play the opener.
Then it seemed the HC had no clue how to continue to use him although his strengths are not suited to a WCO.

Yeah, McCoy's "improvement" at the end of games was due more in part to teams backing off and playing soft zones than anything else.

I remember when he came in for Weeden last year, and played against a soft zone and drove the team right down the field. Then the Broncos started playing man, and applied pressure, and the offense just stopped cold. On that first drive he went something like 6-9 for 78 yards ...... but he wound up going a total of 9-17 for 79 yards for the entire game.

Weeden is a very weird situation...no real comparison in NFL history.

So much of the opinion on him is influenced by his Age...29/30 this season.

Obviously there is no time to develop him as Brees was n in his 4th season "GOT IT".

Last season...couldn't think of a worse system for a young QB to come in n one that didn't compliment his positives. We were utilizing a rhythm system mostly w/3 step drops n some 5. With a lot of young talent at WR learning the system n NFL at the same time. With defenses geared up to stop Trent/Running game n in turn playing in tight. Most plays had the Primary n Secondary WRs all within the 10 yard line. We utilized a Triangular system where the QB would look there n be able to see all 3 routes n decide on the correct one n throw. But defense played it all tight n the congestion for a rookie QB to make his decisions was so so difficult. On top of that the desperation of the Coaching staff stressed to Weeden...no go out there AND DON"T THROW AN INT!

The offense plain old SUCKED. Run Gaps were filled n 3 step drop had a D guy in all the passing lanes....deflected passes tops in the NFL. Sure he can technically improve on that. But the system was terrible. Maybe with a team Continuity n most in it for like 5 years it could work??? Who knows.

Note: I'm not saying Weeden didn't do things wrong. All the negatives dawgs say they saw are TRUE (I'm sure there might be embellishment here n there) . I saw Weeden lost then make some improvements n then Digressed as the Coaching staff I think got more desperate. By itself I'm like many of you saying - This guy sucks...lets move on.

But I started reflecting. After the 2010 season I had great expectations of Colt cause I thought he looked very promising before his ankle injury. Now with a new O that seemed to favor his style. But he did nothing but got progressively wors n worse as the season went on. Where I came away with "This guy sucks...lets move on." Now its Weeden. I don't know how Shurmur got a rep of being a good QB Coach...after two seasons all I saw was him making his QBs very UNCOMFORTABLE in the system. To the point that there was just signs of Bust in both.

Well after the season I'm like - Woah is it Weeden? yes the locking onto WRs a commone rookie error, holding the ball (indecision) fear of making a mistake? Accuracy a top quality that he was to possess was not there. Fixable? I think so.

One other thing. A rumor I guess - not comfirmed but I think was in print somewhere (maybe the banned Grossi) But I forgot the exact game. Later part of the season.
Weeden got knocked to the ground to the point his helmet came off (of course no flag thrown) well he was making indications that the transmitter wasn't working. Supposedly Benjamin came in with a play...but it was late n Weeden already had his own play called. He probably looked the most comfortable all season (n he was UNDER THE CENTER). Nice smooth confident drop back...no indecision - as soon as that back foot hit (5 step) he throws a rope accurate where he could of hit a dime from over 20 yards - perfect in stride n a TD to Benjamin.

To me that sort of got me thinking a bit...maybe it wasn't Colt...maybe it wasn't Weeden our Offense totally sucked at least for a young team. Also that one play was a hmmmm I wonder if that is the REAL Weeden if he can be put in a Comfort Zone.

Here now comes along Chud (who freaking made DA look like a Pro-Bowler) n Norv who has always made his QBs comfortable n over achieve. Bringing in an Offense that is built on a Vertical stretch. We got the OL to give that O time to develop. If we get 2 safeties staying back that opens up a kick butt Run Game w/Trent. Stretching it vertical opens the underneath plays as well as the swings to an exciting Trent. With Weeden in a comfort zone hitting on those deeper patterns. It could be a perfect scenario.

So between all that but especially with our new system n staff. Weeden could be THE GUY. Now keep in mind I also believe somewhere in the next 5 years regardless of Weedens Positive status somebody - right guy right place we have to invest n slowly develop possibly even getting a Bonanza of draft picks as the Young guy is ready to start... ala Kaepernick.

So all in all I think Weeden wins any competition and will start. But we will not hold him as a project "developmental" QB past this season. Either he shows he is THE GUY...or we move on.

The only thing that did worry me last season. As bad as things were n outside of that one play. I really didn't see that "IT FACTOR" emerge in his play. I wish I saw more of that regardless how bad the system n environment was...I would have hoped for more IT moments. We had a lot of games lost in that 4th qtr n when needing HEROICS we got some pretty bad play out of him.

JMHO

That was the Washington game, a game we had a chance to win and were leading in the first half but were simply outcoached on a massive scale in the second half.