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Norv Turner has started/worked with... Brad Johnson with the Redskins, Doug Flutie with the Chargers, Jay Fiedler with the Dolphins, Kerry Collins with the Raiders, Alex Smith with the 49ers, and Rivers with the Chargers... Not exactly cannon arms on these guys with the exception of Kerry Collins. I wouldn't count on Weeden being the starter just because he has the stronger arm.
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Weeden was 2nd in the NFL in snaps taken from under Center, behind only Matt Schaub in Houston, according to Terry Pluto in an article I read earlier this off-season.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Remember this ? Makes a BIG difference.
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I remember reading the same thing.
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Phillip Rivers has a noodle arm and wouldn't last in Cleveland
Russel Wilson is a smurf and wouldn't last in Cleveland
Tom Brady is old and wouldn't last in Cleveland
Breese is too old and too short and wouldn't last in Cleveland
The fans would tear all of these QB's apart
lol, this is a terrible posting.
— Rivers would regain his all-pro status behind the Cleveland offensive line.
— Chud would use the read-option with Wilson (which he tried to force on Cam Newton during his second year, which is a big reason why he declined slightly), and Wilson would be fine.
— Brady would result in automatically winning the AFCN.
— I actually don't think Brees would do very well here...he's a very good QB, but Sean Payton has almost made him a system QB with NO's excellent offensive line and 3-step drop WCO. Going to a vertical system like Norv and Chud's just wouldn't work because it would accentuate his weaknesses and mask his strengths.
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All Pro
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Weeden was 2nd in the NFL in snaps taken from under Center, behind only Matt Schaub in Houston, according to Terry Pluto in an article I read earlier this off-season.
Now what coach would be that stupid? 
GO BROWNS!
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Just a general reply to a few comments made
I think Rivers is probably done for. His arm was dead last year. The guy had a pretty good arm until last year but he couldnt throw a 15 yard curl without lofting it for a jump ball.
Colt can't maintain his arm strength either. At the beginning of the year, he has twice the velocity. I dont think he ever fully recovered from the injury he suffered against Bama. The more he plays the weaker his throws become.
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Quote:
Quote:
Phillip Rivers has a noodle arm and wouldn't last in Cleveland
Russel Wilson is a smurf and wouldn't last in Cleveland
Tom Brady is old and wouldn't last in Cleveland
Breese is too old and too short and wouldn't last in Cleveland
The fans would tear all of these QB's apart
lol, this is a terrible posting.
— Rivers would regain his all-pro status behind the Cleveland offensive line.
— Chud would use the read-option with Wilson (which he tried to force on Cam Newton during his second year, which is a big reason why he declined slightly), and Wilson would be fine.
— Brady would result in automatically winning the AFCN.
— I actually don't think Brees would do very well here...he's a very good QB, but Sean Payton has almost made him a system QB with NO's excellent offensive line and 3-step drop WCO. Going to a vertical system like Norv and Chud's just wouldn't work because it would accentuate his weaknesses and mask his strengths.
I believe 'dogg was making a statement about the fans, not about the QB's...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Here's a link to the article: http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2013/02/statistics_show_west_coast_was.htmlWeeden actually threw more TD than INT from the shotgun. He completed roughly 4% more passes from the shotgun than under Center. His rating was 11.4 points higher from the shotgun than from under Center.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Honestly...If we get Grimes...if Geno Smith is on the board at our pick pull the trigger, don't even think twice about it.
Smith is better then any other QB on our roster, and he is only 22 years old...vs Weeden what 29? 30? its a better investment.
I think Smith can grow into a pretty good QB for us...maybe not in his first year, but I gurantee you Smith will score more points in his first year then Weeden did.
I don't see the talent their with Weeden....all I see with Weeden is a journeyman QB...another Derek Anderson 2.0. A guy with a big strong arm, questionable accuracy, and a penchant for throwing INTS...I don't see a franchise guy here.
In Smith I see "The potential" to be a franchise guy. Weeden don't even have the potential.
We need to get younger at the position anyways...I would rather grow Smith for 2-3 years while we finish polishing off the pieces then sticking with Weeden and having to replace him at just the time we get competitive.
I don't see Weeden as the face of the franchise, But I could see Smith as the face of the franchise...
I still say Banner, and Lombardi are much higher on Smith then any on here wish to believe....and if he is available at our slot, I won't be surpised if we take him.:)
QB play has been the biggest problem for us the last few years, Not many experts were high on Weeden....in fact Weeden would have been there in the 2nd round...he was a knee jerk pick by a desperate regime.....we need not hitch our wagons to a mistake of a past regime. again I think Weeden could be a quality backup QB, but I don't see him as "The QB" I think Smith could be...he has all the tools to do so.
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Just guessing Ytown...but Stats are tough to utilize as the deal breaker.
Shotgun stats for Weeden - When did we utilize Shotgun??? 2 minute drill at the end of the Half...4th quarter when we were down by a lot...Spread offense with Nickel D n probably some soft Defenses protecting the long pass n letting time consuming underneath passes sometimes giving up TDs but eating up the clock when we were down by more than 2 scores???
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
Quote:
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Phillip Rivers has a noodle arm and wouldn't last in Cleveland
Russel Wilson is a smurf and wouldn't last in Cleveland
Tom Brady is old and wouldn't last in Cleveland
Breese is too old and too short and wouldn't last in Cleveland
The fans would tear all of these QB's apart
lol, this is a terrible posting.
— Rivers would regain his all-pro status behind the Cleveland offensive line.
— Chud would use the read-option with Wilson (which he tried to force on Cam Newton during his second year, which is a big reason why he declined slightly), and Wilson would be fine.
— Brady would result in automatically winning the AFCN.
— I actually don't think Brees would do very well here...he's a very good QB, but Sean Payton has almost made him a system QB with NO's excellent offensive line and 3-step drop WCO. Going to a vertical system like Norv and Chud's just wouldn't work because it would accentuate his weaknesses and mask his strengths.
I believe 'dogg was making a statement about the fans, not about the QB's...
Yeah, I see that now. My apologies, 'dogg.
I don't really understand why Browns fans would be upset about landing a good QB, though. Do you guys hate winning? 
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Norv Turner has started/worked with... Brad Johnson with the Redskins, Doug Flutie with the Chargers, Jay Fiedler with the Dolphins, Kerry Collins with the Raiders, Alex Smith with the 49ers, and Rivers with the Chargers... Not exactly cannon arms on these guys with the exception of Kerry Collins. I wouldn't count on Weeden being the starter just because he has the stronger arm.
This is partially true. Arm strength is the single most-overrated attribute in QBs. None of the best QBs in the NFL have it at this point (Rodgers, Brady, Peyton, Brees, etc.), while a lot of mediocre ones have it.
The idea that a strong arm is necessary to run the Air Coryell is also false. Kurt Warner, Trent Green, and Philip Rivers all support this. What really matters in terms of a QB's arm in a vertical system is downfield accuracy, not how far the QB can sling it.
So yeah, I wouldn't count on Weeden being the starter because of his superior arm strength. That link that's been posted many times about his success in the shotgun does suggest that he's a much better fit for Norv and Chud's Air Coryell system rather than the WCO, though. And I think most would agree that Weeden has more upside in general than Colt (Colt's been painfully mediocre for years here, versus Weeden being mediocre for one year). This is why I think Weeden's the starter this upcoming season.
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Did you really mean to include Rodgers in that list of QBs for lacking arm strength? He has to have one of the stronger arms in the NFL in my opinion with uncanny accuracy to boot.
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Just a general reply to a few comments made
I think Rivers is probably done for. His arm was dead last year. The guy had a pretty good arm until last year but he couldnt throw a 15 yard curl without lofting it for a jump ball.
His arm strength looks like it's declining because our offensive line is the second-worst in the league behind Arizona's. He can't step into his throws half the time, and his footwork has become a mess because he's been constantly pressured and now plays scared.
Just to prove my point about him not being "done for", consider who the Chargers have been starting at left tackle for the past two years — the years that have allegedly started his decline. We have Jared Gaither, Marcus McNeill, Mike Harris, and Kevin Haslam. Alongside these guys we've had the same line for the past two years — Green, Hardwick, Vasquez, and Clary (btw, these guys are all terrible other than Vasquez, who's now gone anyways).
Jared Gaither is a beast. Y'all might know him from when he was on the Ravens. He was a fantastic starting left tackle there, but he rarely played due to his horrible work ethic (which Gaither alleged was to due a "back injury" that doesn't show up on x-ray) and tendency to be a locker room cancer. This led by him being released and replaced by Bryant McKinnie at left tackle. After McNeill suffered his career-ending injury against the Raiders (which was kind of a blessing in disguise because McNeill sucked at this point in this career due to the spinal stenosis), the Chargers signed Gaither off waivers. Following his signing, Rivers turns back into an elite QB.
Due to the strength of his 2011 season, the Chargers resign Gaither. He plays the first five games of the season before the mysterious "back injury" strikes again. Mike Harris, a rookie UDFA who started at RIGHT tackle at UCLA, takes over the starting job. Rivers starts to suck again.
Just to prove my point, here's the stats for Rivers with Gaither in the 10 games he played with him:
2,664 yards, 67.7% completion percentage, 8.05 YPA, 99.3 quarterback rating, 7-3 record for the Chargers
And here's the stats for Rivers with Harris, Haslam, and McNeill (who I repeat, was significantly below-average at this point in his career) in the 22 games games he played with them:
5,566 yards, 61.7% completion percentage, 7.15 YPA, 83.4 quarterback rating, 8-14 record for the Chargers
...
And this is just with an upgrade at left tackle.
Anyhow, Rivers isn't "done for". His stats with a good left tackle versus horrible ones (Mike Harris is literally the worst-rated player in the HISTORY of the website, profootballfocus.com , due to his 2012 performance), suggests that he's the same QB he used to be as long as he has an average offensive line.
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Did you really mean to include Rodgers in that list of QBs for lacking arm strength? He has to have one of the stronger arms in the NFL in my opinion with uncanny accuracy to boot.
Rodgers has slightly above-average arm strength at best.
He can throw the ball pretty hard (with incredible accuracy), but he can't throw the ball 70 yards down the field like Cutler, Stafford, Big Ben, Vick, Freeman, Campbell, Flacco, and Palmer can. He can throw a more accurate deep ball than any those guys though, which is all that really matters.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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Phillip Rivers has a noodle arm and wouldn't last in Cleveland
Russel Wilson is a smurf and wouldn't last in Cleveland
Tom Brady is old and wouldn't last in Cleveland
Breese is too old and too short and wouldn't last in Cleveland
The fans would tear all of these QB's apart
lol, this is a terrible posting.
— Rivers would regain his all-pro status behind the Cleveland offensive line.
— Chud would use the read-option with Wilson (which he tried to force on Cam Newton during his second year, which is a big reason why he declined slightly), and Wilson would be fine.
— Brady would result in automatically winning the AFCN.
— I actually don't think Brees would do very well here...he's a very good QB, but Sean Payton has almost made him a system QB with NO's excellent offensive line and 3-step drop WCO. Going to a vertical system like Norv and Chud's just wouldn't work because it would accentuate his weaknesses and mask his strengths.
I believe 'dogg was making a statement about the fans, not about the QB's...
Yeah, I see that now. My apologies, 'dogg.
I don't really understand why Browns fans would be upset about landing a good QB, though. Do you guys hate winning?
all good...
thanks toad for pointing that out
fans would be upset because we have been losing for so long that something to happen that good would mean that there is something really wrong with that person and they are not a good QB anymore.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Did you really mean to include Rodgers in that list of QBs for lacking arm strength? He has to have one of the stronger arms in the NFL in my opinion with uncanny accuracy to boot.
Rodgers has slightly above-average arm strength at best.
.
idk... I think Rodgers might have top 4-5 in terms of arm strength.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Did you really mean to include Rodgers in that list of QBs for lacking arm strength? He has to have one of the stronger arms in the NFL in my opinion with uncanny accuracy to boot.
Rodgers has slightly above-average arm strength at best.
.
idk... I think Rodgers might have top 4-5 in terms of arm strength.
I think there's 8-10 QBs who have started fairly recently in the NFL who have better arm strength.
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Just guessing Ytown...but Stats are tough to utilize as the deal breaker.
Shotgun stats for Weeden - When did we utilize Shotgun??? 2 minute drill at the end of the Half...4th quarter when we were down by a lot...Spread offense with Nickel D n probably some soft Defenses protecting the long pass n letting time consuming underneath passes sometimes giving up TDs but eating up the clock when we were down by more than 2 scores???
That could be. I don't remember all of the snaps taken from under Center compared to those taken from the shotgun. It does seem as though Weeden was more comfortable from the shotgun though. He had been a shotgun QB practically his entire life ..... and had to learn to play under Center almost exclusively. While other teams adjusted their schemes to fit their new QBs, we adjusted our QB to fit scheme. That's the real point of the original article.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yeah hard to tell...as I think you know I go by what I see a lot...when I don't have an opportunity to see I rely on stats n other variables available.
Goes with college prospects to what happens in the NFL n my Browns missed one game live on TV since 2001 (but had it DVR'd).
What stuck in my mind was being disappointed with Weeden (all be it early on but it might be a case of FIRST IMPRESSION?)
Eagle game time is clicking n Eagles just took the lead. OK we go to spread offense n Shotgun...I'm thinking all right Gunslinger DO YOUR THING...You are finally in your comfort zone...Bang Zoom I think the first pass was an INT...end of game.
So early on I had an impression of where is this Comfort Zone of Weeden out of Shotgun...obviously from the stats it looks like he turned some of that around. But his first few occasions left me with a Sour Taste - just explaining my lack of buying into the Shotgun thing 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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on Rivers, I agree. He'd be considered a top8 QB if he was traded to Cleveland (yes, please).
San Diego let his OL age, leave (outside of Vasquez they were bad), while simultaneously letting his weapons age, leave (Sproles, Vincent Jackson, etc.).
despite that, his QBrating was still almost 90 the past couple of seasons.
#gmstrong
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From PFT Brandon Weeden looks like Browns’ starter by default Posted by Michael David Smith on April 1, 2013, 6:28 AM EDT When the Browns hired Mike Lombardi as general manager and Rob Chudzinski as head coach, there was a lot of talk that they weren’t enamored with the starting quarterback they inherited, Brandon Weeden. But as the Browns open their offseason workouts, Weeden looks like the No. 1 quarterback by default. The Cleveland Plain Dealer reports that Weeden will take most of the snaps with the first offense this offseason, and the assumption is he will be the Week One starter. Lombardi, Chudzinski and the rest of the Browns’ decision makers reportedly don’t think any of the quarterbacks in this year’s draft is worthy of their No. 6 overall pick, and so it appears that they won’t take a quarterback in the first round of the draft. After spending a first-round pick on Weeden last year, the Browns aren’t likely to spend a first-round pick on another quarterback this year. As for the other three quarterbacks on the roster, only Jason Campbell would seem to have any chance of beating Weeden out in a quarterback competition, as Colt McCoy doesn’t appear to have any future with the team and Thaddeus Lewis has never been better than third on a depth chart. Campbell took backup money from the Browns and will apparently be the backup to Weeden. At least, Campbell will be the backup to Weeden at first. If Weeden struggles, Campbell is there to take the No. 1 job. But at the moment, the No. 1 job is Weeden’s.
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Is anyone else wondering how this reporter knows what Lombardi is thinking? I mean, they have kept him from being out front so how do they know what he's thinking?
Just one of those odd things.
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Grossi has always hated Lombardi with a passion that far exceeds that of anyone on this board.
That being said, he is generally fairly well connected to both the team, and the NFL at large.
Most reporters have sources inside the team they cover. If they don't, they won't be covering the team for long ...... especially as we get quicker and quicker information and "scoops" via the internet and 24 hr TV and radio.
Same thing for Mary Kay Cabot. She is well connected as well. People dislike her for some reason. She reported what the other media reported as far as Kelly and lawyers .... and him planning on working out a deal ...... but I don't know that she was the first to report that "news".
She was also one the the first, if not the first, to report that Lombardi was at the top of the Browns wish list for GM, and that he would probably get the job ..... even before they interviewed anyone for the job.
Sje was right.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Not sure if it has anything to do with Lombardi's thinking moreso Joe Banner's comments on the radio. He said Weeden will start training camp as the #1 starter. I think that leads many to believe he'll get most of the first team reps, no?
Banner also said QB is not the focus at #6.
It's more about what Banner is saying than Lombardi or anyone else for that matter that reporters are going from.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 04/01/13 11:33 AM.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Quote:
Grossi has always hated Lombardi with a passion that far exceeds that of anyone on this board.
That being said, he is generally fairly well connected to both the team, and the NFL at large.
Most reporters have sources inside the team they cover. If they don't, they won't be covering the team for long ...... especially as we get quicker and quicker information and "scoops" via the internet and 24 hr TV and radio.
Same thing for Mary Kay Cabot. She is well connected as well. People dislike her for some reason. She reported what the other media reported as far as Kelly and lawyers .... and him planning on working out a deal ...... but I don't know that she was the first to report that "news".
She was also one the the first, if not the first, to report that Lombardi was at the top of the Browns wish list for GM, and that he would probably get the job ..... even before they interviewed anyone for the job.
Sje was right.
Read the article, it wasn't written by Grossi. But yeah, I know that reporters have sources inside teams the cover, but according to Banner, he's keeping Lombardi out of the public eye because he's such a "lightning rod".
So I thought, hey, if you can't talk to him, then how do you know what he thinks?
Just sayin..
#GMSTRONG
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Because there are other people inside the organization who do know what Lombardi is thinking, and one or more of them might be a source for Grossi, Cabot, or other reporters.
My problem with Grossi is that his reports tend to have wishful thinking in them. He reported on Bill Cower, starting out that he wanted him for the next head coach at the time ....but then that aspect disappeared, and it just became "here he comes". Same thing this year with Mallett. I think that much of his reports are wishful thinking .... and then other reporters pick up on his reports, and we get a full fledged rumor. What starts with "Tony Grossi reports that according to team sources the Browns are interested in trading for Ryan Mallett", and eventually the "according to ..... " part is dropped, and the rumor is reported as fact.
It happens with every reporter. If a rumor is allwoed t linger long enough it becomes treated as fact.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Because there are other people inside the organization who do know what Lombardi is thinking, and one or more of them might be a source for Grossi, Cabot, or other reporters.
My problem with Grossi is that his reports tend to have wishful thinking in them. He reported on Bill Cower, starting out that he wanted him for the next head coach at the time ....but then that aspect disappeared, and it just became "here he comes". Same thing this year with Mallett. I think that much of his reports are wishful thinking .... and then other reporters pick up on his reports, and we get a full fledged rumor. What starts with "Tony Grossi reports that according to team sources the Browns are interested in trading for Ryan Mallett", and eventually the "according to ..... " part is dropped, and the rumor is reported as fact.
It happens with every reporter. If a rumor is allwoed t linger long enough it becomes treated as fact.
Key to that is that it's "becomes treated as fact" but it doesn't make it fact.. that was my point..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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A lot of mental notes on probably 4 threads regarding QB n Weeden.
1. Very few rookies shine - I personally don't know what kind of QB Weeden will be for us with any certainty. Without a doubt he struggled last year but most of his mistakes was not mechanics - I saw a lot of confusing moments during the games - I also saw a QB who did not believe in his system. Very little comfort zones achieved.
2. New guys, new system, new life for Weeden. Its rather simple he will have a year to n his skill potential is worth the ONE more year...if younger it could be more than one but lets face it. 30 n things are still confusing n he still cannot show any comfort zone...then its not the system but HIM.
3. This reporter stating Chud Lombardi are settling n giving some off the wall reasons.
Lombardi cause when the Browns drafted him he stated the Browns were making a desperate move. Well as much as I like Weeden I in after thought - Lombardi was correct I to think it was a move out of desperation. Weeden wasn't a piece of the puzzle actually he fits the current puzzle better than last years. But what does that have to do with what Lombardi thinks of Weeden in this system.
Chud has not shown any lack of confidence in what Weeden can do here. I don't know where he gets that from . If it was as this Bozo states...we would be bringing in several QBs to compete. Instead we brought a guy in more to help Weeden succeed than compete. But if we were this desperate we would have offering the a lot for Alex Smith or at least be in the mix to get him.
4. We could be doing a big time Smoke n Mirror thing and we want Geno Smith or Barckley. But more than likely looking for the QBs to drop n possibly Manuel, Bray, Scott, Glennon - dropping in the 3rd...sit n learn unless a very unusual Russell Wilson thing happens again.
I think its the later. So we are confident enough in what wee see in Weeden to put the ball in his hands with a Veteran there for a just in case situation.
The other notion I see being talked about. Our FO or HC/Staff are not playing to Win a Championship next year so we will not do this or do that.
True we are making Long Term moves more than Short Term but I think that is baloney - out side of an expansion team - No Coach or FO is counting on us playing Mediocre.
That is just sad fan thinking from our history. They go into this doing everything they can to win This year. So starting Weeden has nothing to do with Next year or the year after...he starts they think he is the best chance to win this year.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Legend
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Legend
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I didn't know where to put this: Quote:
Now that the Raiders have reeled in Matt Flynn and soon will unload Carson Palmer, the question becomes where will Palmer go?
Many think it will be with the Cardinals, for a mid-round pick and a reduced contract.
Per Adam Schefter of ESPN, those who know Palmer believe he wanted to land in Tampa, as the backup (and potential replacement) for Josh Freeman. “Doesn’t look that way now,” Schefter observes.
But Palmer still holds the cards. If he refuses to reduce his base salary from $13 million, he’ll eventually get cut, because no one will trade for him. Then, Palmer can sign with whoever he wants to sign with.
Of course, Palmer possibly is tapping the brakes because he realizes that, eventually, he’ll be criticized heavily for forcing his way out of two cities in less than two years. But if he chooses to put the pedal to the metal, he could still be wearing pewter, if the Bucs want him.
Regardless, Palmer will play for a new team in 2013. Whether it’s the Buccaneers or the Cardinals, his team will be facing a very stiff challenge in its division.
Link
There have been multiple reports that the Buccaneers are trying to get another QB to compete/push Josh Freeman. I don't understand that at all. Freeman will be 25 for the entire 2013 season and is pretty good. I would probably give up the 6th pick for him.
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Hell, I'd give up more than that for Freeman. He is tailor made for Chud's offense. He's a talented kid, and I would love to have him in Cleveland.
I cannot imagine the Bucs dumping him for Palmer though. That would be idiotic on their part.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't think they'll trade him, but they are interested in Palmer and were interested in Mallett (before they found out the price was too high). It seems weird that they are interested in guys that are not backups, but guys that should be competing for starting jobs. Quote:
Hell, I'd give up more than that for Freeman.
Same here. The Bears gave up two first round picks (and more) for Cutler. I would give up the same for Freeman if he was available.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
Same here. The Bears gave up two first round picks (and more) for Cutler. I would give up the same for Freeman if he was available.
Oh yeah, if Freeman could be had for two firsts- I'd do it in a second.
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Freeman for two first rounders?
No thanks. I'll pass. JMO.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Rookie
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We've listened to FO after FO come in here and proclaim that they're going to "right the ship", they're going to make us contenders. Oh, or how they are going to make football relevant again in NE Ohio. They have a plan. This time it's going to be different, they want to return the Browns to their former glory... and we get to watch them blow it all up, over and over again.
Watching the Browns is just not very enjoyable. It's a nerve-wrecking experience week-in and week-out. Regardless of the ineptitude of the opponent the Browns won't put them away. They let them hang in the game until they find a way to lose it, except when we accidentally win every once in a while. A lot of people on this board and all over the place say, "winning is all that matters". Well, to that I say that you're full of it. If winning was all that mattered to you then you wouldn't be here rooting for the Browns. If winning was the only thing you were interested in and all that you cared about then you would be a fan of a team that is constantly in the Playoff Picture. Or maybe, you would go off the deep end completely and you would be like the other countles Ohioansns who went rouge and became "Steeler Fans".
Maybe it's that we've become accustomed to losing so much that we have come to expect it. In the very least we have come to accept it, to prepare for it. We are always rebuilding, always in the "process". We prepare ourselves season after season of having a losing record so that by chance if we made it to .500 we could have something to look forward to- as if to say to our rivals- "Look at us, we broke even, we are not losers anymore"!
Though the years I've come to face the facts that this ship that we are all on just isn't very good; it leaks and needs constant repair. Every plan or "treasure map" turn out to be a wild goose chase for "fool's gold" right to the bottom of the Pacific. The captain either abandons ship or is thrown overboard into shark infested waters. We have a broken compass onboard that will not allow us to escape from the Bermuda Triangle and we've been going in circles for what seems like forever. Every free agent that signed on the dotted-line was some old, weather-beaten veteran looking for that one last voyage before being laid to rest at sea.
Instead of winning it became "progress" or "moral victories". You know, winning is as important to me as you say it is to you, but here's the difference. During my tenure of being a Browns Fan I have started looking for something other than winning, since that is the rare occasion, to place my hope in. I came to understand that in every contest there will be a winner and a loser in every game, and that if we can't win, I at least want us to go down fighting. I expect to see some passion for the game and in some small measure, in the eyes of our players, pain in defeat. We want players that want to be here, that believe that the community is as important as the play on the field, players that embrace the "underdog" mentality and above all, players that play from the heart. I saw those things in players like Vickers, Jurevicius, Josh Cribbs and Colt McCoy. I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong, but I can find no wrong in supporting players with traits and values such as these.
I agree that having big guns or being big in general are both things you can't teach, but playing with passion or heart cannot be taught either. I have a certain code that I will always stand by, and if it comes down to size or heart, I'll always lean towards the latter. Goliath was big, David was not... and we all know how that turned out. So, you can joke or laugh to your hearts content but the biggest joke of all was played on the Cleveland Browns, as we were robbed of a quality individual, a leader on and off the field the field, an excellent role model for our children, a player that gave us 100% and someone that to me, was more important than some meaningless win we probably weren't going to get anyways. God bless you guys and I only hope that they can find more players like Colt McCoy that can attempt to try and fill the vast void that will be left in his absence.
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Legend
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I'm going to do a Phil Savage on you. Go root for Buffalo 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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2nd String
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2nd String
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Quote:
Freeman for two first rounders?
No thanks. I'll pass. JMO.
Yeah, I tend to agree. Freeman's pretty much Jason Campbell five years ago.
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Legend
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Legend
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No way I would pay 2 first rounders for him.
But I always had him n Flacco neck n neck with Skill Set.
Freeman needs some OTs to protect him in Tampa.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
So, you can joke or laugh to your hearts content but the biggest joke of all was played on the Cleveland Browns, as we were robbed of a quality individual, a leader on anField the feild, an excellent role model for our children, a player that gave us 100% and someone that to me, was more important that some meaningless win we probably weren't going to get anyways. God bless you guys and I only hope that they can find more players like Colt McCoy that can attempt to try and fill the vast void that will be left in his absence.
Ladies and gentlemen...Case McCoy has left the building...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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