|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 129
Practice Squad
|
OP
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 129 |
With Chud coming back I think comparing the talent of these two teams seems like a good way of evaluating our chances of winning.
IMHO
Weeden > Anderson
Richardson = Lewis
Smith < Vickers
Gordon < Edwards
Little < Jurevicius
Watson < Winslow
Thomas = Thomas
Greco < Steinbach
Mack > The 87 centers we had that year
Lauvao > Tucker
Schwartz > Shaffer
I'm just guessing where our D linemen will line up in a 3-4.
Rubin > Roye
Taylor > Washington/Kelley
Winn > Smith
Sheard > Mcginest
D. Jackson 12 > D. Jackson 07
Maiava < Davis
Damontre Moore(Texas A&M) > Wimbly
Haden > Bodden
Ward > Jones
Young = Pool
Skrine < Wright
I know < > = isn't really saying much, but that's about all I could get done during lunch.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 137
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 137 |
I think this team (2013) is definitely more talented/has more upside than that team (2007) for sure, but a few things are sticking out to me in your post.
1. Your DL comparisons are off. Rubin would be the stand in for Washington, and Phil would be compared to Roye.
2. Leigh Bodden was one of my favorite Browns since the return. This doesn't really have anything to do with the thread, but seeing his name reminded me of how much I liked watching him play. I absolutely hated trading him to Detroit for Big Baby. Leigh wasn't the greatest player, but he always played hard.
Proud fan of the Pulaski Academy football strategy.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
Quote:
Weeden > Anderson
Richardson = Lewis
Gordon < Edwards
Little < Jurevicius
Watson < Winslow
You can't fairly compare the '07 roster to the '13 roster until the year is over.
Weeden -vs- Anderson, hard to say. Unless Weeden puts up 29 TD's this year, you can't really compare them, at least at this point.
Braylon was a ball dropper & a head case, Gordon is neither. As of right now, Gordon looks to be a true #1, Edwards is... well, were is Edwards? Maybe he'll be a #3 or #4 Jet reciever, maybe not... who knows? I'll take Gordon in his second year over Braylon in his.
Little is far more athletic than JJ was, but until about game five of last year, less reliable. Little turned his season around, stopped dropping balls and is a beast after the catch. I'd take Little with his upside over JJ on his downside in '13.
We don't know that Watson will be the TE in '13. But I will take someone healthy with upside under Chud's tutelage (whoever that may be) over a severely damaged Winslow who, because of that, could not block.
Again, I'll take Richardson with his upside over JL on his downside. He may explode this year under Norv's system.
The D is better, don't see Skrine as the starter opposite Haden, and I hope Usama is gone.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
You can't fairly compare the '07 roster to the '13 roster until the year is over.
then why have a discussion board? 
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
Quote:
Quote:
You can't fairly compare the '07 roster to the '13 roster until the year is over.
then why have a discussion board?
Damn it, you're right I forgot the only reason to have a board is to hypothetically compare two teams who will never play each other. And I didn't say you couldn't compare them, just that you couldn't "fairly" compare them.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
here's my take:
Weeden = Anderson (only taking into account '07 Anderson)
Richardson < Lewis (until I see him healthy)
Smith < Vickers
Gordon = Edwards (Josh has the talent though I doubt he has "that" year)
Little = Jurevicius (they do different things well)
Watson < Winslow
Thomas > Thomas ('07 JT was a rookie)
Greco < Steinbach
Mack > Fraley (started all 16 games - OC issues were preseason)
Lauvao < Tucker
Schwartz > Shaffer
I moved some of these guys around.
Taylor > Roye
Rubin > Washington/Kelley
Winn = Smith
Sheard = Mcginest (until I see it on the field it's hard to gauge)
D. Jackson 12 = D. Jackson 07 (age actually may be catching up?)
Maiava < Davis (I hope we have a different piece here)
Gocong < Wimbley (until we get someone, go with what we have)
Haden > Bodden
Ward > Jones
Gipson < Pool
Skrine < Wright
Where we need upgrades (no order):
QB
TE
OG
CB2
OLB (possibly both)
FS
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
My first thought was that in some cases it looks like you are comparing them based on production and in other cases you are comparing them based on potential...
For example, Little is far more athletic than JJ and if he can improve his route running and catch the ball like he did the second half of the year, he could pose a much bigger threat...
I wouldn't say Weeden is already better than DA, though he does have the potential to be a lot better..
Joe Thomas in year 7 should be better than Joe Thomas the rookie, even though he was pretty darn good as a rookie.
Knowing what we know, Gordon has the potential to be a lot better than Edwards... unless you think that by year 7 of his career, Gordon will have been with 5 teams and still struggling to find a home... now will he have the 2013 year that Edwards had in '07? That is yet to be seen...
Same with Sheard.. the guy has never played the position you have him at but you have him as better than a 2 time pro-bowl guy who was on 2 super bowl winning teams.. yes McG was slower and at the end of his career but it's a big assumption to say Sheard will be better at the position.
And while I enjoy these exercises and hypotheticals.. that was Chud's offense, this is Norv's offense.. so while Chud will have his fingerprints on it, Norv will be the guy calling the shots...
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,831
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,831 |
Quote:
Thomas = Thomas
In name only. If you don't think JT has improved since his rookie year, I don't know what to tell ya.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419 |
Edwards in 2007 was a marvelous deep threat, and a game breaker. He had 1289 yards and an incredible 16 TDs. If we are comparing 2007 (only) to 2013 ......
Until proved otherwise, Edwards of 2013 is better than anyone we have on the roster.
Jurevicius caught 50 passes for 614 yards and 3 TD.
Last year, Greg Little caught 53 for 647 yards and 4 TD. Gordon caught 50 for 805 and 5 TD. Either guy is superior at this point in his career than Jurevicius was in his final year ... even though he had a very good final year.
Lewis ran for 1304 yards, with 9 TD, and caught 30 passes for 289 and 2 TD.
Richardson, as a rookie, ran for 950 yards and 11 TD. He also caught 51 passes for 367 yards and 1 TD.
Given that Richardson was hurt all year last season, I'll go with him having the better year.
Watson vs Winslow is no contest. Winslow all day long.
I think that our current OL will wind up being better than the 2007 version.
Weeden vs DA is a hard one to pick. DA had the best year ever for a Browns QB as far as TD passes. Can Weeden improve upon the team record? I don't know. No one thought that DA could do that ..... and we did play a very weak schedule in 2007. Our opponents' records were a combined 110-156. (If I counted right) We played some terrible teams in 2007. That being said, Weeden needs to produce this year. Can he do a 29+ TD season? I don't know. Can he do a 20-24 TD season? I think that's possible. If he can overcome the INT, and limit those to the 12 range, then a 20-24 TD/12-13 INT season would be successful.
I think that our defense, overall, can be better than the 2007 group. We gave up 382 points in 2007. That was the 2nd most since the Butch Davis days forward. (2001-2012) We have a ton of question marks on this team. I think that the DL will be better than in 2007. I think that the secondary will be better, overall, than 2007. The LB corps worries me, and much depends on whether or not Sheard can make the transition from 4-3 DE to strong pass rushing 3-4 OLB. If he can, we'll be worlds ahead. If not, then we could be in big trouble.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
See now, you're comparing the '07 stats to '12.  Just what I warned against with my first sentence. 
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,984
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,984 |
Quote:
With Chud coming back I think comparing the talent of these two teams seems like a good way of evaluating our chances of winning.
IMHO
Weeden > Anderson
Richardson = Lewis
Smith < Vickers
Gordon < Edwards
Little < Jurevicius
Watson < Winslow
Thomas = Thomas
Greco < Steinbach
Mack > The 87 centers we had that year
Lauvao > Tucker
Schwartz > Shaffer
I'm just guessing where our D linemen will line up in a 3-4.
Rubin > Roye
Taylor > Washington/Kelley
Winn > Smith
Sheard > Mcginest
D. Jackson 12 > D. Jackson 07
Maiava < Davis
Damontre Moore(Texas A&M) > Wimbly
Haden > Bodden
Ward > Jones
Young = Pool
Skrine < Wright
I know < > = isn't really saying much, but that's about all I could get done during lunch.
Wow never thought about it. The talent you show looks pretty equal to me with a possible upside with Weeden and more youth on D
Joe Thomas #73
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419 |
Quote:
See now, you're comparing the '07 stats to '12. Just what I warned against with my first sentence.
Yeah, in some ways, I suppose I did. Stats are part of the picture, and when comparing one year against another ...... what do you look at? I tried to stay away from that with the defense, because we are looking at a whole new defense for 2013.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
The thing about '07 that makes it so hard to use as a comparison to anything is that Edwards had his career year.. DA had his career year... KWII had the best year of his career.. Jamal Lewis had one of the best years of his career and definitely the best year in the second half of his career... JoeJ had one of the best years of his career... I don't believe any of them ever had a better year the rest of their career... it's kind of weird and spooky how that happened all at the same time... some kind of synergy I guess...
So in my mind its not about whether Gordon can have a better year this year than Edwards had in '07, it's can Gordon do those things for many years here.. and I could say that about the other positions as well. I don't want '13 to be another one hit wonder year..
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
Quote:
Stats are part of the picture, and when comparing one year against another ...... what do you look at? I tried to stay away from that with the defense, because we are looking at a whole new defense for 2013.
IMHO, this is a much more interesting discussion at the end of next season. 
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,394
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,394 |
Quote:
here's my take:
Weeden = Anderson (only taking into account '07 Anderson)
Richardson < Lewis (until I see him healthy)
Smith < Vickers
Gordon = Edwards (Josh has the talent though I doubt he has "that" year)
Little = Jurevicius (they do different things well)
Watson < Winslow
Thomas > Thomas ('07 JT was a rookie)
Greco < Steinbach
Mack > Fraley (started all 16 games - OC issues were preseason)
Lauvao < Tucker
Schwartz > Shaffer
I moved some of these guys around.
Taylor > Roye
Rubin > Washington/Kelley
Winn = Smith
Sheard = Mcginest (until I see it on the field it's hard to gauge)
D. Jackson 12 = D. Jackson 07 (age actually may be catching up?)
Maiava < Davis (I hope we have a different piece here)
Gocong < Wimbley (until we get someone, go with what we have)
Haden > Bodden
Ward > Jones
Gipson < Pool
Skrine < Wright
Where we need upgrades (no order):
QB
TE
OG
CB2
OLB (possibly both)
FS
I agree with this for the most part. I would also add this:
McKinney < Lauvao < Tucker
Tucker was AMAZING at guard when he filled in halfway through the year. McKinney really wasn't that special at all. I think we really struggled on our runs to the right side until Tucker came in, with the exception of those few - and awesome - plays where we put Thomas as TE on the strongside and Heiden at LT.
Chud definitely knew what he was doing that year.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419 |
Quote:
Quote:
Stats are part of the picture, and when comparing one year against another ...... what do you look at? I tried to stay away from that with the defense, because we are looking at a whole new defense for 2013.
IMHO, this is a much more interesting discussion at the end of next season.
Oh, I don't disagree.
Right now we are trying to project the performance of our players and units, with a new offense and defense coming in.
Plus, we have no idea how injuries can affect the team. Look at the Pats when Bledsoe got hurt back in 2001. People thought that their season was over, but that injury allowed them to find Brady.
Plus, who knows ... maybe we find another Cribbs from the UDFA ranks who will be a major contributor to our team?
There are so many things that can happen ....... and I just hope that some of those weird breaks start going our way.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Even though I'm basing a lot of it on potential, I'd rather have T-Rich than Jamal Lewis (at that point in his career)
Agree with most everything else.
The biggest difference to me is that you can see this whole team as young, and up n coming. The 2007 Browns had some young parts, but also were hitched around some older guys.
The vets on our team are Sheldon Brown (who may not even be back), Ben Watson, and Joe Thomas who is going into his 6th year. Everyone else is very young, and a lot of them still kinda raw.
It seems like Josh Gordon has a better head on his shoulders than Braylon. Maybe not that eye-popping athletic ability that Braylon had, but you don't hear a lot from him, and even on the field, he's not acting like an idiot after every catch. I know he has his baggage but it seems like he was a pretty good teammate last year.
I think Cameron has a ton of potenial, but we just haven't scratched the surface of what he is. Watson is decent as well, but I'd be lying if I said I'd rather have K2 from that year.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum '07 Roster VS '13 Roster
|
|
![[Linked Image from i190.photobucket.com]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z33/booger52/phpGGRdhwAM.jpg)
