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Most surprising player 9 games in IMO would have to be Craig Robertson.
Undrafted player who came out of nowhere. He has had a knack of being around the football this year. I think he has some decent upside and should only get better as he's only 24 years old.
He's not the fastest LB but I think he is pretty intelligent and football savy.
Before the year started he wasn't exactly a guy that was projected to start.
But injuries to Gocong and Fujita have opened a door for him.
He's no worse than either of those 2 who I felt were over rated anyhow.
Robertson has really held his own this year.
Most disapointing player has to be Jordan Cameron.
Talk about a guy that was hyped all training camp like he was gonna be
another Graham or Gronkowski.
12 catches for 140 yards.
for a offense that has issues in the red zone, his disappearing act isn't helping.
his best catch all year was in the preseason.
He is a liability in the running game. He fails to drive LB's backwards or at least stand them up.
He has failed to step his game up.
Not one of one Heckerts better picks
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For me the most surprising player to date has been Billy Winn. I remember seeing him in college and didn't think much of it when we drafted him late ... but he has some serious ability. He is versatile enough to play along the DLine and his explosion is pretty apparent. I would venture that our FO and coaches are even surprised by his performance to date.
The most disappointing is difficult (mainly because I think they're all disappointing with a 2-7 record). But I would probably say Greg Little to this point. I was hoping he would break out for us this year, but truth be told, Josh Gordon has surpassed him.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Quote:
Talk about a guy that was hyped all training camp like he was gonna be
another Graham or Gronkowski.
Oh please show me ONE instance of someone saying this.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Surprising:
Josh Gordon. I thought he was a real turd of a pick. Didn't play football in 2011. Was a knucklehead. And we spent a second round pick on him.
He has been our best wide receiver, I didn't think he was going to contribute at all. 417 yards on 19 catches is insane. I look forward to seeing what he can do in the future.
(Honorable Mention to Billy Winn)
Disappointing:
Eric Hagg. Coming out of training camp he was one of our most hyped guys. I was hoping he could be at least a league average safety. He played terribly and now can't even get on the field.
(Honorable mention to Greg Little)
And for fun...
Player who is doing exactly what I expected:
Phil Dawson. Makes every field goal no matter the situation.
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there was all kinds of chatter that Cameron was going to be that "athletic freak" who would cause "match up" problems down the field game in,game out.
so basically it was stated in a different way.
but the thinking was because Cameron has similar build and dimensions
and he had a basketball background it was such a tremdemous pick by Heckert
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You always get blasted for making these comparisons because odds are it doesn't work out this way... but Antonio Gates only had 24 catches for less than 400 yards his first year, then had a better second year and he had Drew Brees throwing him the ball.... (Granted not quite the Drew Brees we know today)...
So while he might be disappointing this year, there could still be hope...
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
there was all kinds of chatter that Cameron was going to be that "athletic freak" who would cause "match up" problems down the field
There was all kinds of chatter that Cameron could be that "athletic freak" who might cause "match up" problems down the field.
Quote:
but the thinking was because Cameron has similar build and dimensions
and he had a basketball background it was such a tremdemous pick by Heckert
I think you posted this mid-thought, because what I posted above makes no sense.
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yeah you are right. But in this day and age when rookie QBs are coming in and producing right away,I think the same is for WRs/TEs
I was listening to Anthony Becht yesterday and he said coaches/GMs are expecting their young guys to contribute right away and if you are a veteran player you are always on thin ice.
but 12 catches from Cameron is inexcuseable. especially from a offense is throwing more than was expected.
he should have a couple TDs by now.
but he didn't start at USC for a reason.
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Quote:
but 12 catches from Cameron is inexcuseable.
He should just go on the field and catch balls even if he's not in the game.
Quote:
but he didn't start at USC for a reason.
Huh?
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Heckerts picks have been either really good or really lame.
but Cameron is one of those picks that was a serious reach.
He didn't merit a 4th RD pick.
He didn't start at USC cause basically he wasn't very good.
He's raw.
Doesn't it bother you that Cameron can't be a 3 down TE?
Billy Winn has been a excellent find.
But the Browns 2011 Draft Class and 2010 Class aren't exactly tearin it up.
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Billy Winn is my surprise pick...
Hagg is the most disappointing..
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I'll go a little more under the radar since my picks of Winn and Hagg have been mentioned...
Biggest disappointment is by far Owen Marecic...im disappointed that hes on the roster, that he plays, and that he plays so terribly when hes in the game...He stinks.
under the radar disappointment though has to be MoMass...the man just cant stay healthy
Biggest surprise...Shaun Lauvao. I thought he was one of the worst OLers in the NFL and he has actually been a strong point throughout this season. He's been pretty good.
Under the radar surprise to me is Buster Skrine...has shown me he is better than Dimitri Patterson, and really Sheldon Brown has been quite good as well.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Most Surprising:
I'd have to say that its a tie between Robertson and Winn. Robertson looks like he could be quality backup LB who isn't gonna hurt you if he has to start for a few games and Winn while his numbers may not show it has probably been one of our best if not the best DLmen, i really like his hustle.
Most Disappointing:
For me it has been Sheard. While he hasn't played bad, i just expected after what he did last year that he would really grab the bull by the horns and be one of the top DE's in the league.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Most surprising player 9 games in IMO would have to be Craig Robertson.
Undrafted player who came out of nowhere. He has had a knack of being around the football this year. I think he has some decent upside and should only get better as he's only 24 years old.
He's not the fastest LB but I think he is pretty intelligent and football savy.
Before the year started he wasn't exactly a guy that was projected to start.
But injuries to Gocong and Fujita have opened a door for him.
He's no worse than either of those 2 who I felt were over rated anyhow.
Robertson has really held his own this year.
Most disapointing player has to be Jordan Cameron.
Talk about a guy that was hyped all training camp like he was gonna be
another Graham or Gronkowski.
12 catches for 140 yards.
for a offense that has issues in the red zone, his disappearing act isn't helping.
his best catch all year was in the preseason.
He is a liability in the running game. He fails to drive LB's backwards or at least stand them up.
He has failed to step his game up.
Not one of one Heckerts better picks
Winn surprised me,, Maricic disappointed., I thought he'd come on in his second year.. no such luck
As for Cameron Jordan, how many times did he get thrown too? You say his stats are 12 catches for 140 yards.... That's 11.6 yards per catch. If he was only targeted 12 times, I'd say that's damn fine. if he was targeted 40 times, you'd have to ask why he's still on the team.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Most surprising:
Hate going with the crowd, but there's no way it isn't Winn. This guy has been so solid that with Rubin/Taylor healthy the coaching staff is going to give him snaps at DE to keep him on the field.
Early in the season, it might have been Robertson. Hoping JMJ comes on strong to finish the year too.
Most disappointing:
Early in the season, it was, without a doubt, Greg Little. We all hoped he would be our WR1 this season and he still might end up there, but the first few weeks were painful. He's progressed since then and hopefully he continues to improve.
For the season on the whole, it's got to be Richardson's health, Weeden's 4th quarters, Little's hands, interior OL run-blocking, DL pass rush, secondary depth (that was tested and failed the test)
#gmstrong
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I think Sheldon has to go down as a surprise player. He's played very well so far this season, and we were noticeably hurt with him off the field.
Very disappointed (again) in Mo-mass, especially after all the hype about how good he looked in TC.
Other surprises: Winn, Fort, Bademosi, Gordon.
Other disappointments: Hagg, Usama Young, Marecic, Benjamin (somewhat, though not entirely unexpected.)
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Jordan Cameron has been targeted 26 times. now by comparison Chris Ogbonnya has been targeted 28 times. if a RB is being targeting more than a 6'5 TE,then their is some issues. Josh Cooper has been targeted 12 times even in limited action.
if you break it down on a per game basis Cooper has been targeted more than Cameron.
is Weeden not seeing the whole field?
is Cameron failing to get seperation to get open?
all I know is that 12 catches and no TDs does not help a offense that is having issues putting the ball in the end zone and especially the red zone.
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Jacoby Jones has 15 catches and is the next best thing we missed on according to you  Oh, he has ONE TD...that must be the difference, you won....I have no argument left Guess the grass is still greener huh?
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Quote:
Jordan Cameron has been targeted 26 times. now by comparison Chris Ogbonnya has been targeted 28 times. if a RB is being targeting more than a 6'5 TE,then their is some issues. Josh Cooper has been targeted 12 times even in limited action.
if you break it down on a per game basis Cooper has been targeted more than Cameron.
is Weeden not seeing the whole field?
is Cameron failing to get seperation to get open?
all I know is that 12 catches and no TDs does not help a offense that is having issues putting the ball in the end zone and especially the red zone.
Whatever,, he's still not remotely the most disappointing player this year.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I never said he was the best thing the Browns passed on in FA. But he would have been a upgrade at WR for the Browns. But he has a better catch % then most of the Browns WR's.
11 of his catches 15 catches has gone for 1st downs. he has 6 catches of 20 yds or more. and this is playing behind Boldin and Smith.
so when Jones makes a catch it actually means something.
and BTW,he's out playing Josh Cribbs this year.
hey Django hows that fierce tandem of Rucker/Parker working out this year?
wow Heckert did a great job of putting a 2-7 team together.
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Quote:
I never said he was the best thing the Browns passed on in FA. But he would have been a upgrade at WR for the Browns. But he has a better catch % then most of the Browns WR's.
11 of his catches 15 catches has gone for 1st downs. he has 6 catches of 20 yds or more. and this is playing behind Boldin and Smith.
so when Jones makes a catch it actually means something.
and BTW,he's out playing Josh Cribbs this year.
hey Django hows that fierce tandem of Rucker/Parker working out this year?
wow Heckert did a great job of putting a 2-7 team together.
Actually, Rucker and Parker I think have been doing a pretty good job for a couple of guys that weren't expected to play as much as they are. With Rubin and Taylor out, I thought they did a pretty decent job.. What's your problem with them?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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How's Mario Williams doing in Buffalo? or Ray Edwards in Atlanta? You should team up with Toad and get beat up together in that laughable triumvirate thread, lol ..and how about you do one of those threads BEFORE the season? Like, "what the great KendallStorm would have done"...cherry picking FA and draft picks that panned out is pretty lame, you know? 
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Just because a guy is doing something with another team does not mean that he would do anything here.
Jones is playing behind Smith and Boldin ..... but how many times is he the 3rd receiver, with those 2 guys drawing coverage?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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my issue with them is that the RDE spot a position of impact on a football team.
right up there with QB,LT,DT #1CB and WR.
but Heckert goes to the bargin bin for a position that you need gold at.
all I heard from the pro Heckert crowd was much improved the Browns would be
vs the run with the addition of Rucker and how Parker was gonna be a upgrade in the pass rush dept.
guess what,the Browns are still sorry vs the run ranked 27th in the NFL.
4 sacks between 2 players isn't good no matter how you slice it.
the Browns have a whopping 10 sacks from their d-line.
thats not good in a 4-3 defense.
if you have to blitz your LBers and DB's,that means your D-line can't create enough pressure on the QB.
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Most surprising: Josh Gordon - I'd put Winn here except that I really liked Winn coming out. If we took him where we took Hughes, I'd have been OK with it. However, I expected absolutely nothing from Gordon this year. He hadn't played football in forever and was raw as heck to begin with. The fact that he's our big playmaker now is remarkable.
Most disappointing: Mohamad Massaquoi - He was finally healthy and looked like he was going to anchor our weak WR corps. Instead, he gets dinged up over and over and then gets felled by a hamstring injury to the point where he may not even be on the roster next year. I was counting on him to step up and instead he stepped back.
We're... we're good?
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Most surprising: Brandon Weeden. I thought he'd have more games similar to the Eagles debacle than he has. I wasn't big on him in the draft. When we made the choice I became a fan but a skeptical one for sure. He's exceeded my expectations.
Most disappointing: Sheard. I know Taylor and Rubin have been injured but come on man. 2 sacks? I see the pressure he applies. He's often making the QB move in the pocket but elite pass rushers figure out a way to be a half step faster. Hopefully he gains that half step in the second half of the season.
Third category...
They are what I thought they were: Mo Mass. Made of glass.
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Most Surprising on Defense is Sheldon Brown, on offense would be Gordon I never imagined Gordon would make any real impact this year.
I was one of i think 3 sheldon brown fans and even I thought his career was over and yet he has been quiet frankly the best #2 corner in the league this year.
Most disappointing defensively Hagg, on offense Mo. I dont think Hagg could handle the pressure and Mo once again, just cant stay on the field. It was expected but it is still disappointing.
Winn isn't a surprise (major surprise he dropped to the 6th), I had as a late first early 2nd round grade. Thought he had JJ Watt potential ( got ripped pretty bad for that comment) lol Thing is with Winn, he is the one that has been drawing all the attention with Rubin and Taylor out of the lineup and he has still been productive and disruptive.
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Quote:
Most Surprising on Defense is Sheldon Brown, on offense would be Gordon I never imagined Gordon would make any real impact this year.
I was one of i think 3 sheldon brown fans and even I thought his career was over and yet he has been quiet frankly the best #2 corner in the league this year.
Say what?
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Quote:
cherry picking FA and draft picks that panned out is pretty lame, you know?
...And yet that's exactly...EXACTLY...what you "kept waiting" for me to do, as you noted time after time after time ad-nauseum.
So I see the pattern here: If posters don't give you names of players or if they do, it's lame both ways.
Way to have your cake and eat it too.
So which is it? Are people lame if they don't answer your question or are they lame if they do?
I see. It's both. How convenient for you.
Quote:
Ytown:
Just because a guy is doing something with another team does not mean that he would do anything here.
So causality DOES play a role in the Universe, and DOES factor in to any given discussion about what a player would or would not do in any other given situation.
Don't say that too loudly, Ytown. People around here don't get such a profound and complex idea.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Kendall Storm reminds me of the Medic in my unit who was trying to convince me that Steven Ridley is the best back in the NFL.
He also happens to be a Pats fan.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Yeah, Wynn is the biggest positive surprise. He's shown more motor than any defensive lineman not named Sheard, though that effort hasn't always equated to production.
Most disappointing? Dawson. I've seen way too much of him this year.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Quote:
cherry picking FA and draft picks that panned out is pretty lame, you know?
...And yet that's exactly...EXACTLY...what you "kept waiting" for me to do, as you noted time after time after time ad-nauseum.
So I see the pattern here: If posters don't give you names of players or if they do, it's lame both ways.
Way to have your cake and eat it too.
So which is it? Are people lame if they don't answer your question or are they lame if they do?
I see. It's both. How convenient for you.
Umm, no?
Kendall keeps throwing names out that PANNED OUT...AFTER THE FACT that is, to make things worse....what I want both of you to do once is to put your nuts to the table and tell us what you would have done the moment IT HAPPENS and before anyone knows how they'll perform. Give me all those names when they are FAs or are still on the draft board....I and some other posters are doing exactly that.
Stating the road is wet AFTER it rained was, is and will always remain incredibly LAME
All we know from you Toad to upgrade our QB situation is you would have tried to sign Campbell and not drafted any QB we could have gotten...you're on record saying you would have entered the season with Colt 
But I'll give you credit for that, at least you stuck your neck out on the QB issue....Kendall otoh just whines after the fact
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Most surprising...Weeden. I officially like him. I did not officially like him when we drafted him.
Most disappointing...Joe Haden. You cost your team big time. There are a bunch of teams that are frauds in the AFC this year. We could have been playing meaningful games in December. Idiot.
By the way ... in the Ravens game you got worked. Shut your pie hole.
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Most surprising: Schwartz, Gordon, Winn and Weeden....in that order. 4 rooks that have exceeded my already high expectation level. Some of them are already playing at or near NFL AVG for their position, which for any rook is a major accomplishment
Most disappointing: Haden and TRich...we're talking 2 top 10 picks here, so the bar is set high for those two guys and that's why I'm disappointed. I believe both players are among our best talent, if not the 2 most talented, but they aren't consistently playing up to it yet
Haden missed 4 games due to stupidity and then gets fooled on the most important 3rd&10 of the season vs the Ravens last week
TRich....for not adjusting to the league, thinking his talent is too good to be coached up. He's a BIG reason why we can't convert 3rd and short situations, make no mistake about that
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TRich....for not adjusting to the league, thinking his talent is too good to be coached up. He's a BIG reason why we can't convert 3rd and short situations, make no mistake about that
I'm in the group that thinks Shurmur is a BIG reason why we can't convert on 3rd and short situations...just sayin'! lol.
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TRich....for not adjusting to the league, thinking his talent is too good to be coached up.
I'm curious to see some evidence that leads you to believe he's refusing to take any coaching. Everything I've ever read has stated he's a model person and player.
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He's a BIG reason why we can't convert 3rd and short situations, make no mistake about that
He's barely a factor.
The BIG factor is the line's inability to get any push when the defense isn't spread out.
That factor is a primary reason why the coaching staff throws in far more short-yardage situations.
I believe you've also stated that it's becoming clear to you that the staff doesn't trust Richardson, to which I would say: prove it.
If the staff doesn't trust a running back's ability on short-yardage situations, what is the fix? Do they abandon the running game all-together? Never. What they've always done is to put in a different back and give him the ball.
The Lions used to pull Barry Sanders because he wasn't a good short-yardage back.
The Redskins used to pull smallish Earnest Byner for the much bigger Gerald Riggs.
The Bucs used to sit Warrick Dunn for Mike Alstott.
As recently as this past off-season the Niners, who ranked dead-last in the NFL on 3rd and 1 situations, decided to sign Brandon Jacobs to solve that problem (which was idiotic since the world outside of San Fran knows Jacobs is a big wussie for a guy his size on short-yardage situations)
So on and so forth.
Further proof can be found by looking at the numbers for this season. We're 31st in terms of being able to rush for a 1st down on 3rd and short. Wanna blame that on the RB? Take a look at this stat...
The team that ranks even worse than us, which means 32nd (ie: dead last) in the league? The Vikings.
Yeah, and they have some guy named Adrian Peterson.
Oh but I'm not done yet...
Here's a ranking of the teams which neighbor us in terms of 3rd down rushing percentages in which they gain a 1st down in short-yardage and their running backs:
Rams 33% Steven Jackson
Eagles 35.7% LeSean McCoy
Seahawks 35.9% MarShawn Lynch
Bucs 37% LaGarrett Blount/Doug Martin
With us and the Vikings, all those teams are 24th or lower.
Conversely, teams in the top 10...Jets, Pats, Saints, Colts, Bengals. Do they have RB's that scare anyone?
Hardly.
So here's the question I would pose to you: How many times have the offensive coaches been in short-yardage situations, pulled Richardson, and put in another back then given him the ball?
If anyone can show me where the coaches have pulled Richardson and given the ball to someone else in short-yardage situations I'll listen, because that's the only way to prove that the coaches don't trust him yet still believe they can gain a yard or two by giving the ball to someone else.
No, the line couldn't punch their way through a wet paper sack. They are the BIG reason why we can't do anything in short-yardage situations.
I maintain that the the brain-trust (and I use that term loosely) of Chilly and Shurmur don't trust the offensive line which has lead them to throwing the ball far-too often. I sure don't see any commentators or NFL-evaluators questioning Richardson's desire in those situations.
It should also be worth noting that it's one thing to be disappointed in Richardson, but to not acknowledge that he's not been 100% at any point this season, and in fact shouldn't have played at all at one point, is unfair at best and something far less reputable at worst.
Here's the link to those stats for those that don't believe it: Rankings of teams that gain a 1st down on 3rd and short
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,190 Likes: 310
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,190 Likes: 310 |
Most surprising is Little... I'm surprised he's still on the team....
Most disappointing..Dawson..On the field way too much..Scores most points and the team still loses...wth !!! I just know when he comes on the field it's because they can't get a Touch Down..very disappointing...
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 Likes: 445
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 Likes: 445 |
Most disappointing:
Hagg, Cameron...Where would we be if these guys stepped up? We will never take that leap until some of the guys that aren't expected to contribute emerge.
Haden ... top 10 talent ... makes zero plays when we need them the most. Actually, Haden is BY FAR my most disappointing player and it has ZERO to do with the suspension. When you're drafted #7 overall, you are expected to make plays at the most critical times in games. He ALWAYS gives up plays at the most critical times in games. The Torrey Smith play was a microcosm of his career to this point. What a pathetic, pathetic, pathetic, pathetic play for a #7 overall pick on the most important play of the season for us. My disappointment in Haden knows no limits. When you miss on guys like this, it really, really costs you. He's not a miss yet, but until he starts playing like a #7 overall pick and not a second or third rounder, he will tinker on the bust level for me. He does absolutely zero to help us win games. Games in the NFL are won and lost on 3-5 plays per game. That's when your superstars are supposed to shine. Will someone, anyone, tell me one time in his career when he's made a game changing play?
Surprising:
Winn on D, Bademosi on ST, Schwartz on O ... never expected Schwartz to be this good this early. I'm wondering if JT were to get hurt if he could slide over.
Wasn't surprised at all on Gordon after watching him in camp. It was obvious the guy had talent. Would like to see him put a complete game together. There's something to work with there.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,190 Likes: 310
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,190 Likes: 310 |
Quote:
He does absolutely zero to help us win games
Your describing the entire team.. excluding Dawson
Quote:
That's when your superstars are supposed to shine.
Our superstar is a Field goal kicker that's it...
Let's face it...We can continually discuss what player is contributing or which player isn't... we can all say what plays should of been called instead of the ones that were...what player we should of drafted and the ones we did...
The basic facts are we have stunk since 99....we make excuses for why we shouldn't be..because we could have a better record if we just would of done.....What ?... Maybe Win ?
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 293
2nd String
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2nd String
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 293 |
What kind of crazy world do you live in to actually think Haden is a problem Quote:
Will someone, anyone, tell me one time in his career when he's made a game changing play?
Hard to make "game changing" plays when you're playing on defense for one of the single worst offenses in the league the past few years.
Last edited by LittleGregBig; 11/15/12 12:24 AM.
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