|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 Likes: 280
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 Likes: 280 |
Quote:
DC, Lynch has had three 1000-yard seasons. Hillis had one, and he was worn down at the end of that season.
Which in no way disproves what I said.. Hillis had one year which was as good as any year Lynch has ever had. I'm not using that to prove he deserves Lynch money, just using it to refute your point that he needs to prove to anybody that he can play.
And how do you know that Hillis wore down at the end of 2010? Because he didn't rack up yards against the Ravens and Steelers? Comparing Hillis in 2010 to Lynch in 2011 where he had his best year.. as of the midway point of the season, Hillis was averaging 6 more touches a game than Lynch.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,817 Likes: 515
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,817 Likes: 515 |
Plus, if I'm not mistaken, he played with broken ribs those games, didn't he? Now, some may take that to mean he was "worn down".......I'd say 2 things to them: 1 - He PLAYED with broken ribs., and, 2: Broken ribs are not the result of being worn down. Broken ribs happen from 1 hit. On day 1, or on day 100 - 1 wrong hit, ribs can break.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,350 Likes: 448
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,350 Likes: 448 |
Quote:
Quote:
Lions use franchise tag on Cliff Avril.
And there goes another guy that I wanted.........
This happens every year  I get my hopes up on some FA's and they always seem to get franchise tagged.
The Lions said all along that they were going to franchise him, so I don't know why it would be a shock.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Lions use franchise tag on Cliff Avril.
And there goes another guy that I wanted.........
This happens every year I get my hopes up on some FA's and they always seem to get franchise tagged.
The Lions said all along that they were going to franchise him, so I don't know why it would be a shock.
Oh I know, but it doesn't change me from hoping that they don't
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,802 Likes: 158
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,802 Likes: 158 |
Quote:
Whether Lynch signed with the Seahawks or someone else, he absolutely was going to sign or get tagged, so Hillis was always going to be in the same pecking order.
I think the point is, with Lynch signed, there is one less option out there for teams to go after. because of that, Hillis may end up being able to get more than what we would have offered yesterday...
Supply and demand.. that's really all it is.., Supply was diminshed by one guy,, demand is still there.
Having said that, I don't think the Browns are going to budge from what the want to pay the guy. the number is the number...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,887
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,887 |
One could say demand went down as well seeing that there is one less team needing a RB.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
link As these WRs get tagged, the value of the WRs in the draft should increase (rightfully so or not).
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
eh, kinda. It means those teams don't need to replace those guys.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 Likes: 280
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 Likes: 280 |
Quote:
Having said that, I don't think the Browns are going to budge from what the want to pay the guy. the number is the number...
I would bet you that you could have asked most GMs a month ago which FAs they thought would actually hit the market and which would not and what the approximately price for each would be and they would have been 90% right.. I don't see any RB or WR signings as being big shockers in moving the market one way or the other...
The only big unknown in FA is Peyton Manning (and to a lesser extent Matt Flynn).. now THAT will have a ripple effect to a bunch of teams when those dominoes start to fall.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
Which in no way disproves what I said.. Hillis had one year which was as good as any year Lynch has ever had. I'm not using that to prove he deserves Lynch money, just using it to refute your point that he needs to prove to anybody that he can play.
Ok, but you're splitting hairs here. If I use the word "consistently" or add the term "reliability" to the mix, then we're talking exactly what I mean.
But I'd imagine you knew that already.  
Quote:
And how do you know that Hillis wore down at the end of 2010?
Beyond some reports and the eye-ball test? I don't
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Quote:
And how do you know that Hillis wore down at the end of 2010?
Quote:
Beyond some reports and the eye-ball test? I don't
You've said that before and I've said this to you before as well, for some reason you choose to completely discount his injury at the end of 2010. Now I don't want to go all stat boy on ya with a visor, a pocket protector and a calculator in one hand with an indelible pencil in the other, but his attempts in the last three games of 2010 were 14, 12 and 6. To make that appear even worse it was against the bengals, Rats and Steelers respectively. The three previous games he had two hundred yard performances where he averaged over 5 yards per carry.
I am unanimous in thinking that you let his lack of production vs. our divisional rivals influence your opinion in thinking he "wore down" at the end of 2010.
IIRC he got a rib injury early in the bengals game, which resulted in the low number of carries, and then early in the Rats game Ed Reed blew him up with a shot directly in the ribs. He had 6 carries the next game.
So when you cite "some reports" and the "eye-ball test" I'm thinking that "some reports" were from talking heads who don't really watch the Browns but instead look at the stats and come to conclusions. Regarding the "eye-ball test" I'm thinking your eye-balls were red and blurry from sucking salt off the back of your hand while drinking tequila and watching college football all day the day before.
Furthermore, there was that promiscuous woman you don't like to talk about. Don't make me out on that one.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Getting injured is part of wearing down. 
If he's worn out due to fatigue, injury, whatever, he's going to have his production reduced. That's what happens to big, bruising backs, and why they don't last long in the league, but that's swerving away from the point.
He got dinged, he got hurt, he got worn down. *shrug* I see no distinction between the two. Quote:
So when you cite "some reports" and the "eye-ball test" I'm thinking that "some reports" were from talking heads who don't really watch the Browns but instead look at the stats and come to conclusions. Regarding the "eye-ball test" I'm thinking your eye-balls were red and blurry from sucking salt off the back of your hand while drinking tequila and watching college football all day the day before.
I hate tequila. Blecht!
You never knew me. *sniffle* 
Keep in mind what you're now saying. All the reports are wrong because they don't actually watch or pay attention to the Browns, yet someone who does watch all the games and pays attention can't prove he wore down. 
But if you need a local guy to say the words, here's Steve Doerschuk:
Quote:
Hillis was a beast both as a power runner and a receiver when healthy last year. At other times, he played hurt but was much less effective. He wore down late in the season, averaging 3.2 yards per carry or less in four of his last six games, and delivering only 41 of his 477 receiving yards in the final four games.
Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/20...n#ixzz1oM0HzZNa
Do a Google search on Hillis wearing down. There's just too much smoke to say there can't be a fire.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,149 Likes: 833
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,149 Likes: 833 |
No, injured is NOT wearing down.
Wearing down is the legs and body just not being able to maintain the endurance over the long haul... like a rookie hitting "the wall".
Injured is injured.
Totally NOT the same thing.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,089
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,089 |
j/c
I'm sure this has been discussed earlier in the thread but whats the consensus on going after Cortland Finnegan in free agency? Given that Sheldon Brown CANNOT play CB anymore and Dmitri Patterson is probably not a consistent enough performer, Haden and Finnegan would be a great set of starters and would keep Patterson in the slot and as primary backup.
Last edited by CanadaDawg; 03/06/12 12:52 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Well if we have 1 position to spend big bucks on I'd rather go after a #1 WR or DE before I look at CB...simply because we have Haden who is better than Little or Sheard at their position...I'd rather look for a no2 CB in the draft with 1 of our 5 Top 100 picks
My FA wish list looks like this:
WR:
1. Colston
2. Colston
3. Colston
He really is the only no1 option for us...other "no2-speed" possibilities: Garcon, Morgan, Royal, Doucet
Don't want: Lloyd, Manningham...both overrated imho
RB:
1. Tolbert
2. Bush
3. Grant
4. R.Brown
5. Graham
Other targets: CB/FS Marshall, CB T.Jennings, FS R.Nelson, CB T.Porter, S J.Sanders, CB Trufant, DE Bierman, DT Laws, DE W.Gilberry, DE Tollefson
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Finnegan was really good 2-3 seasons ago. His play has dropped off the last couple of seasons and he got burned really badly throughout whole games at times (he did talk Andre Johnson into getting himself kicked out though)
I really like his tackling ability and feistiness out of a DB (though he can cross the line), but I think he is going to command a salary respective to his play in the past and not his true value now.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590 |
Not sure if this has been hit on or not over the recent past (I have been on the move and out of town on and off over the last few weeks) ... what is the specifics concerning Mike Wallace?
If we were to sign him to an offer sheet that front loads his contract then one of two things happens.
First, we don't get him ... BUT in the process we would drive up his price for Pittsburgh and they would have to cut some more players (or at least scramble to restructure contracts) in the process.
Second ... we WOULD get him. I want to know if we would be forced to give up the 4th or could we do the 22nd? Because IFFF Mike Wallace is as good as people think he is, we could get a very young but proven Wideout. I wouldn't like to give up a first round pick to Pittsburgh, but I WOULD like to know we not only got a real playmaker who is better prepared from the day that we get him than any receiver in this draft is ... we also take away one of their top weapons.
I would also like to think that even though they are trying to return to the run game we could definitely help to cripple their offense by stealing away their top wideout.
Wallace? Would be gone.
Mendenhall? We all know what happens with RBs coming off of significant ACL tears.
Miller? Aging.
Ward? Cut (but could still resign).
Does Pittsburgh really want to head into the season with their top WR's being Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders? I don't know. Do they really want to have their top RB's be a guy who's never carried the load by himself (the most carries he had in a game was 19 vs. us ... and he's only hit double digit carries 3 times in his pro career).
I know it's not like Pittsburgh wouldn't use the pick to address their offense and add talent anyways ... but I also think that it should be an avenue that we look into. My thoughts are that if Mike Wallace is better than anything we can get at the receiver position at pick 22 then we offer that to them. He's more "ready" to add to an offense and it would work if we could draft Griffin while holding onto the #22 ... OR if we went in another direction and added talent at the other positions as well.
Besides ... in my mind:
Mike Wallace + Greg Little + Phil Taylor + Owen Marecic + 4th Rounder > Julio Jones + 3rd Rounder.
If it comes down to the 4th overall however ... I would hate to see Pittsburgh use that to bolster their team by adding Claiborne to sure up the secondary, adding Kalil to protect Roeth, or even adding Blackmon and watching him turn into a stud. Plus ... it would be our Luck that Griffin falls to 4 and they auction that pick off for a ton of other players ...
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643 |
He'll be a Steeler next season.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
Wallace is a speedster, no doubt about that. But part of his success in Pittsburgh is that Big Ben has the arm to launch it and just let Wallace run under it. Do we have a QB that can do that?
I will say that I don't know what the rules are on us giving up one of our first rounders to another team for a free agent. And, since the Steelers put a first round tender on him and a team like us comes along with 2 first rounders, who gets to pick which first rounder it is?
The Steelers aren't going to give up Wallace to a division rival without getting something big in return, and I'm sure we'd hate to get a good WR but give up the opportunity to get other quality players, too.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
I'm hoping that NE or SF signs Mike Wallace to a big front-loaded deal and only gives Pitt back their late 1st rounder.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,350 Likes: 448
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,350 Likes: 448 |
Five little-known free agents I like, and five well-known ones I don't - NFL - CBSSports.com News, Rumors, Scores, Stats, Fantasy Advice http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/17607...own-ones-i-dontNow that the franchise tags have been settled, and we know who will be on the NFL free-agent market, I thought I would take a look at some players flying under the radar and some who should make the buyer beware. Most of the buyer-beware players are names you might recognize, but also players who should come with a caution tag. Some are older, some are slowing, and some just aren't as good as their reputations. As for the little-known players, these are guys who have flashed at times and might even be bargains for some. For others, it's their time. Let free agency begin. Little-known players I really like 1. Seahawks defensive tackle Red Bryant -- I will break him down on tape for a Thursday column here at CBSSports.com, but I really like this kid. He plays hard. He's an anchor in the 3-4 and can also play inside in a 4-3. Oh, and he's only 27. 2. Eagles defensive tackle Derek Landri -- This undersized player was a big surprise for the Eagles last season. Signed as a low-level free agent, he was one of their better pickups. He plays with a lot of effort and his quickness is a plus. Might not be the right fit for every team, but he is a player who will help in the defensive rotation. 3. Bengals safety Reggie Nelson -- He was considered a bust in Jacksonville as a first-round pick. Part of that was because he didn't put the work in to be a good player. He's changed. He's matured. And he has become a better player. In a league where range matters, Nelson has it. He isn't a great tackler, but he has improved there as well. With safety being a weak position in the draft, Nelson should get a lot of attention. 4. Jaguars safety Dwight Lowery -- Here's another young safety that should get a lot of play. The Jaguars want him back, but at what price? Lowery came over in a trade last year from the Jets and clearly outplayed any of the Jets safeties. He has range and he will tackle. This former corner has made a nice transition to the back end. 5. Bengals defensive tackle Pat Sims -- He is a load at 335 pounds and has shown flashes of being a quality player at times. Injuries have slowed him some. But he's only 26 years old and power players like him are hard to find. He has 23 starts in four seasons. Players I would be cautious about 1. Falcons defensive end John Abraham -- He had 9½ sacks last season, but how many did he get in division games? One, and that's playing in all six. That's disturbing. So is his age. He'll be 34 in May, and he has battled some injury issues over the years. For the right money, he makes sense. But for a big deal, I would caution the team that is considering it. 2. Packers quarterback Matt Flynn -- I like him. I do. I just think that the idea he is a franchise passer is going to be propped up because teams are so desperate to get a franchise quarterback. In the right system, he will work. But I never think he's going to be a top-10 quarterback. For the right price, it's OK. But I doubt the price is right. 3. 49ers cornerback Carlos Rogers -- He played well early last season, but his play tailed off some as the season wore on. He will be 31 in July, so you wonder how much he has left. I still think he can play at a high level for two or three years, so the contract has to be creative. This isn't an elite corner, but a good one. Paying him elite money could hurt a franchise. 4. Bengals running back Cedric Benson -- In the past two seasons, Benson had per-carry averages of 3.5 yards and 3.9 yards. That's not good enough in a league where explosive plays matter. He also will turn 30 in December. He is more of a grinder for a team looking for a second back. I just don't see explosive ability. And when you watched the Bengals, that always seemed to show up when he was in the game. The run game didn't scare anybody. 5. Falcons middle linebacker Curtis Lofton -- He is a good run player, but he has struggled at times against the pass. This is a passing league. So a team might be spending big for a two-down linebacker. The middle-linebacker value isn't what it once used to be.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590 |
I'm just curious to know the specifics I guess.
If it could be the #22 then I would absolutely love to think about it. Any receiver that we could get at #22 would either have character concerns (like Floyd - even though I love him) OR they wouldn't be perfect (Kendall Wright - speedy but undersized). Regardless ... they aren't as NFL ready as Mike Wallace is on day 1.
Do I want Wallace? No not necessarily ... but we could offer him a deal that would EITHER cost the Steelers a lot just to match it (in which case we drive up the price and lighten their wallet and therefor their roster) in the process. OR ... we find ourselves with an NFL ready receiver ... which is one of the things we need to do. There is probably a lot less risk in Wallace of being a bust than a guy we draft is my guess.
Not saying I want him, but just curious on how it would work.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
we've tried to look it up but there is nothing in the CBA we could find that mentions the need to give them the team's original pick.
but, then why wouldn't a team that knows it is going to frontload a RFA not first trade back in the draft (take that #22 and pickup the Giants 3rd rounder + #32 for it)? I would think that there has to be some provision to guard against such things.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234 |
Quote:
WR:
1. Colston
2. Colston
3. Colston
He really is the only no1 option for us...other "no2-speed" possibilities: Garcon, Morgan, Royal, Doucet
Don't want: Lloyd, Manningham...both overrated imho
There's also Meachem and Laurent Robinson of the Cowboys. Wonder what Heckert thinks of those guys.
Also, there's Josh Morgan of the 49ers. Dude was doing SOLID until breaking his leg like 5 or 6 games into the season . . .
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Laurent Robinson looked great with Tony Romo throwing him the ball and with Dez, Miles, Witten, along with Murry and Felix to occupy the defense.
He didn't look so great the year before with Bradford and the Rams despite them desperately needing a WR to step up that year (sound familiar?)
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
I'm hoping that NE or SF signs Mike Wallace to a big front-loaded deal and only gives Pitt back their late 1st rounder.
I don't see anyone giving up their first rounder for Wallace.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590 |
If a team thinks that he hasn't reached his ceiling ... why not?
What can you do with a first rounder in the 25 - 32 range right now that you couldn't do with Wallace?
He isn't old (25) and could have another decade left of solid play.
He would be a tremendous speed option for a team like New England and while he isn't a true Randy Moss ... you can see what they did when they had someone stretch the field.
New England is ready to win now. Any player they draft will not be as NFL ready as Mike Wallace is right now. You are also getting a guy that you essentially know what you are getting... this isn't a gamble on a college player ... it's a WR who has been to the Pro-Bowl.
Yes you will need to pay him ... but for New England who already has 4 first and second rounders ... this is just one more way to secure talent. I wouldn't be surprised either way if he was or wasn't signed. You can build through the draft for success ... but you can also add to your talent with great players.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 Likes: 87
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 Likes: 87 |
Quote:
Laurent Robinson looked great with Tony Romo throwing him the ball and with Dez, Miles, Witten, along with Murry and Felix to occupy the defense.
He didn't look so great the year before with Bradford and the Rams despite them desperately needing a WR to step up that year (sound familiar?)
I think Dallas wants to re-sign him, but he really was Romo's best option and that was true even after Miles Austin came back after missing six games.
He was only with Dallas for 14 games with only 6 starts.
Laurent Robinson: 2011 stats;
GP: 14
Catches: 54
Yds: 858
Avg: *15.9
TDs: *11
First Downs: 36
* team leader
He's 26 years old and I think Robinson has a bright future in this League, because he is just now coming to his own.
He has good size and speed and is a smooth crisp route runner.
I think he is still going to be a #3 WR in Dallas and if given the opportunity to start else where who knows.
It will depend on how much Dallas will want to spend on a #3 (they had him for the League minimum last season), but Jones has already stated his desire to keep Robinson in the fold.
I think that he could be a starter here, but he wouldn't be my first choice.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
If a team thinks that he hasn't reached his ceiling ... why not?
What can you do with a first rounder in the 25 - 32 range right now that you couldn't do with Wallace?
You could use your first round pick on someone else and draft a speedy receiver in the 3rd round like Putzburgh did in drafting Wallace.
Quote:
He isn't old (25) and could have another decade left of solid play.
So, he'll sign a 10-year deal with the team acquiring him?
Quote:
He would be a tremendous speed option for a team like New England and while he isn't a true Randy Moss ... you can see what they did when they had someone stretch the field.
How many of the WRs at the combine ran the 40 in 4.45 or lower? There were 10 of them. If you expand it to 4.5 speed, then you can include 4 more into that group. You wouldn't have to give up a 1st round pick for any of them.
Quote:
New England is ready to win now. Any player they draft will not be as NFL ready as Mike Wallace is right now. You are also getting a guy that you essentially know what you are getting... this isn't a gamble on a college player ... it's a WR who has been to the Pro-Bowl.
They'll be as NFL ready as a receiver is ready who can catch a football. And they'll be as NFL ready as Mike Wallace was in his rookie season. Mike Wallace isn't as good in his rookie season as A.J. Green or Julio Jones were as rookies last year.
Let's look at what you're saying. Mike Wallace is worthy of a first round selection, putting him in the same realm as A.J. Green and Julio Jones. I don't think any GM worth their salt would give Putzburgh their first round pick for him. It's laughable.
Quote:
Yes you will need to pay him ... but for New England who already has 4 first and second rounders ... this is just one more way to secure talent. I wouldn't be surprised either way if he was or wasn't signed. You can build through the draft for success ... but you can also add to your talent with great players.
Why would NE do it when they can use that #1 overall pick to select someone like Stephen Hill? Just as fast, taller and with arguably better hands than Mike Wallace and a willingness to lay himself out to make the play! I don't see it happening.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590 |
But by your logic: Quote:
You could use your first round pick on someone else and draft a speedy receiver in the 3rd round like Putzburgh did in drafting Wallace.
You could use your first round pick on another player and draft a QB in the 6th like New England did if it's that easy ...
Quote:
So, he'll sign a 10-year deal with the team acquiring him?
Never said he'd sign a 10 year deal ... but part of "spending" a pick on a player is the fact that they have longevity. If that weren't true then you wouldn't hear about LB's and RB's having a short shelf life and that being a reason why they slip in the draft ...
Quote:
How many of the WRs at the combine ran the 40 in 4.45 or lower? There were 10 of them. If you expand it to 4.5 speed, then you can include 4 more into that group. You wouldn't have to give up a 1st round pick for any of them.
Ok ... then let's be specific and not "ballpark" this. Mike Wallace didn't run a 4.45 ... he ran a 4.33. That's a little bit different.
How many WR's have run a 4.33? (Besides none on our team?) Well ... since 2006 there have been 5 guys ahead of Wallace in the 40 (at the combine).
Jacoby Ford, Yamon Figurs, Heyward-Bey, Jason Hill, Chad Jackson.
Not exactly as easy as you make it out to be to find his caliber of speed.
Quote:
They'll be as NFL ready as a receiver is ready who can catch a football. And they'll be as NFL ready as Mike Wallace was in his rookie season. Mike Wallace isn't as good in his rookie season as A.J. Green or Julio Jones were as rookies last year.
Let's look at what you're saying. Mike Wallace is worthy of a first round selection, putting him in the same realm as A.J. Green and Julio Jones. I don't think any GM worth their salt would give Putzburgh their first round pick for him. It's laughable.
So you're saying that rookies are instantly as good as 3 to 4 year vested players? That there's no such thing as WR's making the jump in their 2nd or 3rd year?
And you're also lumping top 5-ish picks (Green and Jones) as the same as the 22nd overall .. where we could get .,.. what? Kendall Wright? Alshon Jeffrey? Michael Floyd? All are raw and have major concerns. What would be laughable is saying you would prefer a rookie who never took an NFL snap to a guy who's already been to the probowl and keeping a straight face.
Quote:
Why would NE do it when they can use that #1 overall pick to select someone like Stephen Hill? Just as fast, taller and with arguably better hands than Mike Wallace and a willingness to lay himself out to make the play! I don't see it happening.
What has Stephen Hill proven in an NFL offense? NOT as fast (ran slower) - "arguably" better hands? The guy who only had over 4 catches in a game once this year? The guy who had one touchdown after Sept. 24th? Yeah he has upside .. but come on. He can't be a game changer against Kansas, Virginia, or Miami. You really think he's as good as a pro-bowler?
See: Dictionary.
Lookup: Hype.
But seriously ... not even the Steelers hit on all of their picks.
Limas Sweed - Dallas Baker - Santonio Holmes? (If he was such a great fit why draft in the first and lose him for a 3rd) - Willie Reid - Fred Gibson - Lee Mays - Plaxico Burress anyone? Danny Farmer - Troy Edwards - Malcolm Johnson .... they spent a TON of picks on receivers and don't always get them right.
Take a great piece of their offense and you kill two birds with one stone.
Tell me I'm wrong and disagree - fine. But to say you would rather have Stephen Hill hands down who two months ago was a late round sleeper at best and then say I'M the laughable one?
Seriously?
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,530 Likes: 7
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,530 Likes: 7 |
Honestly, Wallace is a 1 trick pony deep post receiver. These guys flash for a year or two and disappear as fast as they came into the league.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 716
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 716 |
It is the teams original 1st round pick...so it would be #4
Been talked to death on Steeler sites.
Rumors of NE taking him with their 31....but you will be signing him to that large contract and giving up a first...when you could take a guy like Hills pay him less...and possibly develop him.
HACK
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,089
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,089 |
3200 yards and 24 TDs in 3 seasons? That's a pony I'd love to have.
I disagree. Wallace is legit and I think is actually just hitting his prime.
If we have the opportunity to give up our #22 for him, I do it in half a second. Wallace is an elite WR... Better to have a guy with one good season and two great ones under his belt than someone who you don;t know will make it in the NFL.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 716
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 716 |
Its definitely original pick....the league does not want a situation where lets say the Colts this year trade their #33 pick (1st in 2nd round) and next years #1 to the Giants in exchange for #32...then use sign the TAG
Giants would get #33 and next years #1
Colts would get #1 overall and #32 which they would give up for Wallace
Steelers would get #32.
The original TAG team would receive the least ...and while that does not look like much here.....Imagine if say the Ravens won the Super Bowl this year...and are sitting at 32.....and then trade with the Colts for 33 and a backup punter and a bottle of gatorade.
The Ravens would be giving up nothing....and really getting nothing...but would allow another team to take away from their top rival.
HACK
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
Some guys we maybe showing interest in.
Richard Marshall
David Hawthorne
Marques Colston
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234 |
Quote:
Some guys we maybe showing interest in.
Richard Marshall
David Hawthorne
Marques Colston
As in you hope, or you've heard . . . ?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
Quote:
Quote:
Some guys we maybe showing interest in.
Richard Marshall
David Hawthorne
Marques Colston
As in you hope, or you've heard . . . ?
I have heard. I also heard that they have Martin rated higher than Reiff even saying they would consider him one of the five guys they would take there. From this same place it is believed the Brown's will not consider Blackmon, Richardson or Reiff in that spot. Funny because my friend is a scout for a team picking in the top 10 and his team has Reiff over Martin.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Free Agents Part II
|
|
![[Linked Image from mypsn.eu.playstation.com]](http://mypsn.eu.playstation.com/psn/profile/Letherface.png)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/FL_Dawg/Logo5_1.gif){kind=logo}
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/SteelHack/hackfun.jpg)