DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Ready for $4.00 - $5.00/Gallon Gasoline?

and they used to put more than 2 things in a bag... now I buy 25 things and I have 18 bags.

So ..... bread and fresh fruit at the bottom and canned good on top isn't right?

I actually had a kid start to do that the other day. I had to stop him from putting cans in a bag on top of a loaf of bread.

We switched to the reusable bags, and that seems to help, along with my unloading of the cart boxed and heavy goods first, fragile softer goods last, so hopefully they bag in the order they scan.

The plastic bags were horrible for any style of packing.

I load everything in the buggy the way I want it bagged (heavy stuff in the front or on the bottom of the buggy, all cleaning products together, all frozen and refrigerated stuff together, all products I don't want smashed together chips, bread, buns, eggs) I also put the bags in the buggy myself so the goofs don't screw things up there either.

It is progress....for the company.

They have you paying for a service or product, and have you doing part of the work for free.

J/C

Thought this was a little interesting:
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Did we learn anything from last years speculation bubble when oil reached $114 a barrel based on the fear that the Arab Spring would disrupt oil supplies? I just read an article that blames Iran and China for our current increase in gas prices. Maybe the media should take a little of the blame.

The other night on the national news it was a big story how Iran had cut off oil to England and France. The story also disussed how high gas prices have gone up and how high they might go. They didn't bother telling the national audience that the embargo slated to start on July 1st was going to do the same thing anyway. Nor did they bother to tell us that England only imported 1% and France 3% of there oil from Iran and that their two major oil companies BP (NYSE: BP) in England and Total (NYSE: TOT) in France already stopped importing from them! This latest speculation bubble is based on all the saber rattling being done about disrupting the oil flow in the Gulf if Iran's nuclear sites are bombed.

There is no shortage of oil. There is no disruption in supply. This is an election year where the incumbent president wants to get re-elected badly. The only way Israel can bomb anything in Iran is if they have access to the United States refueling air tankers. Now tell me do you think that before an election when every 25 cent increase in gasoline sucks out 35 billion dollars out of discretionary spending that anything is going to happen before the election?

It is simple. Do your investment research and when everyone is running around screaming the sky is falling select an oil drilling company like Seadrill (NYSE: SDRL) trading near its 52 week high with a p/e of 10 that has the capabilities to drill at deeper ocean depths than it's competitors. Or maybe an oil service company like Halliburton (NYSE: HAL) that is trading at $38 off its 52 week high of $57 with a p/e of about 12 with growth increase expected from its international operations. So instead of complaining about the rising cost of oil invest in companies that will help your wealth grow.

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That guy needs a spell check desperately.

Also, one of the main reasons that gasoline is so expensive is because we lack refinery capacity, so we wind up importing refined product vs. crude. We have plenty of oil here at home, especially when combined with oil from Canada and Mexico.

Actually, I think that we should just annex Mexico anyway. What would be the difference? The border is wide open anyway, and this was we would be able to get their resources, and tax their citizens. lol

J/C

Oil is something I've researched extensively since the spike in '08. Chalk it up to general curiosity, but it didn't seem logical that oil companies were "levying a tax" for any type of gain.

My conclusion has become this: the main reasons we are where we are with gas prices are twofold. Inflation and supply/demand.

Dollars are backed by nothing...which hopefully we all know. However oil is priced in dollars on a world market...if the fed starts pumping out a buncha money...QE anyone? If "inflation" numbers dont include energy it makes it seem like we're paying more. The nominal price goes up quick, but the real price goes up in check with my next point...

Demand has skyrocketed in SE Asia (mostly China), while supplies remain flat. Unless we produce all 16 million barrels we consume ourselves, we're stuck competing for the same pool. Total liquid supply has stayed within 85-90mbpd since 2005...yet real demand has increased. Prices rise to force demand to stay in line with supply.

The other option we have with supply/demand is obviously to increase supply. Somewhat feasible...probably to ~95mbpd...deep water is expensive, tarsands are slow, tight oil is capital intense, and also not as fast as the conventional fields of the past 100 years. Those fields are declining at roughly 2-3% a year. So regardless of how much we drill, the price would go up some. We have oceans of oil, it's the cost of production that matters. I could drill a hole into the Utica 7000 feet under my feet and get some oil out, but it's not worth what it'd cost me to get it...yet.

This is really simple stuff...I think most of y'all get that. I'm fairly confident it's not some big oil/government conspiracy. I do think the government screws us all by not including food or energy in their inflation stats...I mean really what do we all need the most? If we could point to a 9-12% inflation rate while talking to the boss about a raise, it makes our bargaining position stronger than if they can say it's only 3-5%.

JMHramblings...hope I made sense, and didn't insult anyone lol It really is simple once you take an objective look at it.

I understand why they don't include energy in the inflation rate. you basically would be double-counting it in inflation since energy increases cause the inflation in other areas (inflating inflation as it be)

i don't know why food costs are not counted other than trying to deflate inflation figures. there may be a reason though.

It SHOULD be double counted. Think about it. It costs me more to fill up at $3.79/gallon than $1.79 plus it makes everything else go up. It IS a double hit when energy costs go up, and should be counted accordingly.

Agreed. It's an inflationary multiplier. It absolutely should be factored in.

Yeah but ......

We'll see what oil and gas prices do now that the dollar is rallying, and gold prices are dropping a bit. (like $70 off in the past week if I heard correctly)

If this video is exactly true, then we're in really deep doo doo ...... because gas was $1.75/gallon or so when Obama took office, and gold was around $925/ounce then. Today it's around $1700, less than double, yet gas prices are more than double the prices we saw then. That would mean that the value if our currency is devaluing more rapidly ..... wouldn't it?

I do agree that monetary policy is also to blame though, and have said that we should stop printing money out of thin air. That really is what deficit spending is ..... it's borrowing ... but it's also just printing money out of nothing to meet the new bills when they come due. The US government doesn't have to sell bonds, for example, at a 1-1 ratio against new debt before they can spend that money. Every "new" dollar added to the supply devalues every other dollar, and lessens its value against other currencies.

One big thing that irritates the crap out of me is that the federal government maintains empty office buildings for no other purpose than to keep people employed guarding, cleaning, and maintaining them. The US government owns and/or manages something like 900,000 buildings/properties in the US, and almost 10% of them are either not used, or are under-used. That's ridiculous. Sell them off for pennies on the dollar, stop having to take care of them, and start allowing local government the ability to collect taxes on them.

Anyway .... we're screwed, and I'm glad I don;t have kids who I will be dumping this mess on.

Keystone Oil Pipeline Seen Raising Gas Prices in Midwest: Energy

By Bradley Olson - Feb 29, 2012 7:00 PM ET
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TransCanada Corp. (TRP)’s Keystone XL oil pipeline, a project backers including Republican Presidential candidate Rick Santorum say will create cheaper U.S. gasoline, instead risks raising prices as much as 20 cents a gallon in the Midwest, Great Plains and Rocky Mountains.

The line would create a new way to carry Canadian imports outside the Midwest and reduce an oil surplus that’s depressing prices in the central U.S. Spot gasoline was 55 cents cheaper in Chicago than in New York on June 1, the second-highest ever. Nationwide, retail gasoline set its highest February average at $3.55 a gallon, data compiled by Bloomberg show.


Trans-Alaska Pipeline carries crude oil from Prudoe Bay on Arctic Ocean south to port of Valdez on Gulf of Alaska. If constructed, TransCanada Corp.’s Keystone XL oil pipeline would move oil from landlocked Alberta to the Texas Gulf Coast. Photographer: Thomas Kitchin & Victoria Hurst


Philip Verleger, principal of PK Verleger LLC. said “the Canadian plan was to use their market power to raise prices in the United States and get more money from consumers.” Photographer: Melissa Golden/Bloomberg
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The purpose of the $7.6 billion Keystone is to move 830,000 barrels of oil a day from landlocked Alberta to the Texas Gulf Coast, obtaining new customers and a higher price for heavy Canadian crude, Canadian regulators said in a 2010 report. The oil sold for $23.38 less per barrel in 2011 compared with heavy grades of Mexican crude, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

“The Canadian plan was to use their market power to raise prices in the United States (UNG) and get more money from consumers,” Philip Verleger, founder of Colorado-based energy consulting firm PK Verleger LLC, said in an interview. Prices may gain 10 to 20 cents in central states, he said.

Producers including Exxon Mobil Corp. (XOM), Suncor Energy Inc. (SU) and Cenovus Energy Inc. (CVE) may reap as much as $4 billion more in annual revenue if prices rise as expected following the construction of the 1,661-mile (2,673-kilometer) Keystone XL conduit, the 2010 report says.

Such a change would erase the cost advantage for refiners such as Marathon Petroleum Corp. (MPC) and HollyFrontier Corp. (HFC), whose Midwest plants profited on cheaper oil supply.

Political Touchstones

The Keystone pipeline has generated a political debate before the U.S. November presidential election.

Republicans including presidential candidates Santorum, Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich have criticized President Barack Obama’s Jan. 18 rejection of Keystone XL after Nebraskans raised concerns about the pipeline polluting their groundwater.

The three candidates and U.S. House Speaker John Boehner have said that approving Keystone, eliminating environmental regulations of hydraulic fracturing, known as fracking, and opening up new areas for drilling would lower the cost of gasoline for American consumers.

Clinton Backs Pipeline

Former President Bill Clinton backed construction of Keystone yesterday in comments at a Washington-area energy conference. As long as the pipeline avoids environmentally sensitive land, “the extra cost of running it is infinitesimal compared to the revenues” the pipeline could produce, he said.

Oil supply concerns have grown as the U.S. and Europe tightened sanctions on Iran, pushing U.S. crude prices for future delivery to $109.77 on Feb. 24, the highest in 9 months, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

TransCanada said Feb. 27 it would reapply for a permit to build Keystone and proceed separately with a $2.3 billion segment of the pipeline that will carry crude from the storage hub at Cushing, Oklahoma, to the Texas coast.

Oil flowing through the Oklahoma-to-Texas segment of the Keystone pipeline would help remove excess supply in the Midwest and bring cheaper crude to refiners on the Gulf Coast, TransCanada Chief Executive Officer Russ Girling said in a telephone interview after the announcement.

“It will help to reduce pressure on gasoline prices,” he said.

Declines Offset Increases

As more crude flows to markets such as the Gulf Coast, prices should decline there and balance out increases seen in other places, Stephen Schork, president of the Schork Group industry consultants in Villanova, Pennsylvania, said in a telephone interview.

“Bringing these barrels to the Gulf would certainly have a dampening impact,” Schork said. “Getting more high quality, cheap oil to the market is the direction we need to go to see lower gasoline prices.”

Keystone XL might lower the average cost of gasoline across the U.S. by up to 4 cents a gallon, Ray Perryman, a consultant hired by TransCanada to assess the economic impact of the project, said in an e-mail.

The net impact of Keystone XL on gasoline prices would be minimal, said Perryman, whose research has been cited by TransCanada to back up claims on potential job growth and market impacts from the pipeline.

Consumers in Colorado and Wyoming currently pay less for gasoline than anywhere in the nation because of the supply glut in the Rocky Mountains caused by stranded Canadian imports and growing oil production from onshore fields. Denver’s average price of $3.13 a gallon today was 43 cents lower, or 12 percent, than Houston’s $3.56 average, according to AAA.

Charging More

Canadian producers will be able to charge more for their oil after Keystone XL is built, boosting revenues by $2 billion to $3.9 billion, Canada’s National Energy (TAQA) Board said in the 2010 report approving of TransCanada’s pipeline plan.

The discount on Canadian crude “should be avoided in the future” if the pipeline were built, according to the report.

Completion of the entire pipeline would raise prices at the pump in the Midwest and Rocky Mountains 10 to 20 cents a gallon, Verleger, the Colorado consultant, said in an e-mail message.

The higher crude prices also would erase the discount enjoyed by cities including Chicago, Cheyenne and Denver, Verleger said.

Gasoline Prices

Retail gasoline in Chicago today averaged $3.91 a gallon, 13 cents lower than the $4.04 New York price and more than double the 6-cent difference between the two cities a year ago, according to AAA. The average gasoline price of $2.99 a gallon in Cheyenne, Wyoming is the same as a year ago and the price in Minneapolis is $3.65, according to AAA data.

Canada exported 66 percent of its total crude production in 2010, almost all of which went to U.S. markets, according to the C.D. Howe Institute, an Ottowa-based think tank. The biggest pipeline systems moving crude southward include Enbridge Inc. (ENB)’s mainline system and TransCanada’s first Keystone line, both of which transport oil to refineries in the Midwest, including in Wisconsin and Illinois.

To contact the reporter on this story: Bradley Olson in Houston at bradleyolson@bloomberg.net

To contact the editor responsible for this story: Susan Warren at susanwarren@bloomberg.net

I think the problem is certainly the money supply.

The real problem is there are other problems too, and it all gets muddied. Other countries are using more fuel. Oil costs iirc have went up for finding and getting it. Refineries are old and outdated in some states, and can only process certain types of oil.

From what that video says, we have plenty of oil...so that should drive prices down, instead the oil companies sell it overseas. I can't even argue with that, they have a right to sell their product where they want for a better price.

Then there is this pipeline. The oil is getting sold somewhere...the oil is getting refined somewhere. It should be sent to the closest place which is the US. That would be the best for us, but again, there is plenty of oil. There would be enough gasoline refined too, but the excesses will be sold to the highest bidder negating any real savings.


From what I have read about Austrian economics and what the federal reserve does with money, it delays the cost increases, and confuses the issue. Speculators can be blamed....rich companies...shortages....you name it.

When you look at the price of gold, it was set at 35 dollars an ounce in 1971. Now its approaching 2000 dollars. Its not the supply of gold that has changed, its what is buying it (dollars)

Here is another article that talks about this

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Those empty buildings you mentioned just prove further that the federal government is inefficient. Add to that a printing press, to do whatever they want and you have the problems that we are facing today. Its a big mess.

There is a gas supply issue as well. The last refinery in the US was built 35 years ago. Since then, others closed down (10+ in California) while the demand increased. Now, people don't want more built and some of them are environmental activists that would rather everyone live the way they do and bike/walk everywhere.

Kinda sorta. I don't disagree that some of the refineries are outdated. Read an article the other day that the East coast refineries can only refine certain types of oil. The newer ones in the west can refine more types of oil.

The problem is world-wide demand...check out the following article. We produce more gasoline than we are using. In the past more supply would have caused prices to drop. These companies are finding better prices overseas, thus keeping the price of gasoline high for all of us.

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But I thought High Gas Prices were Obama's fault?

Republican / Tea Party rhetoric... Obama is evil, blah blah blah. Looking at the candidates in the Republican field (as an Independent), I'd say he's going to be the evil emperor for four more years.

Oil/gas is high for one reason... greed.

JC..


No matter how many times we post the chart showing the breakdown of gasoline refinement costs, people still think the president control the costs.

It's supply and demand and investors that determine the cost.

Many point to the record profits of oil companies as proof that their ripping us off, but fail to understand that .03 profit on $1/gal gasoline equates to .12 profit on $4/gal gasoline. They seem to expect that companies work on a fixed profit price versus a markup or margin system. Add that usage is up and you have increased profits.

Reality doesn't fit their argument, so it's easier to blame the President and big oil.

But Fox News has Gas Prices as one of their BULLET POINTS...

So it must be true!

Did you read my whole post ..... written with a touch of sarcasm mixed with irony?

General reply....

Sometimes I wish everyone would take a step back from all the politics. Both parties have good points, and both parties have bad points. As long as everyone keeps arguing then the issue never really gets looked at.

Have republicans done some stupid crap....sure.
Have Democrats done some stupid crap....sure.

Is there more demand for oil and gasoline...yep.
Are some of our refineries out of date....yep.
Does the EPA suck...yes again.


The cold hard facts of the matter are the national debt, the constant deficit spending adding to the debt, and the devaluing of the dollar.




All of those things above cause increases in prices. The endless printing of money to pay for all this ridiculous spending decreases the value of the dollar.

So basically we are getting it from both ends.

Both parties...republican...democrat...bush...obama....they all spent recklessly.

No where....not any one of you could honestly say that you could run your personal finances like the federal government does. Counterfeiting is illegal for us, and thats the only way we could pull it off.

Yet the federal reserve enables this stupid stuff to continue, and we bicker about bush and obama. Maybe it's the sea cows, or Tim Couch's fault too.

At some point 'We the People' need to take a step back, and wake up. Our children, us, and our parents are screwed. How far down does our standard of living have to go?

This isn't a political thing....its a money thing.

How far down does our standard of living have to go? We'll find out........cause it's going down.

Greece will look fantastic compared to us. It's just a matter of how long. 2 years? 5 years?

However, one thing I would NOT do is keep adding new spending.

Doesn't matter to me if you are a family, a state, or a country - the constant deficit spending WILL sink you.

No, global warming is the fault of Al Gore.
The economy is the fault is the Tim Couch.