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A piece from the tail-end of March that I just came across ... bad title, but good read ...

http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011...iberal_alliance

Last Wednesday I spoke at an event at Hofstra University, on the subject of "Barack Obama's Foreign Policy." The other panelists were former DNC chair and 2004 presidential candidate Howard Dean and longtime Republican campaign guru Ed Rollins. The organizers at Hofstra were efficient and friendly, the audience asked good questions, and I thought both Dean and Rollins were gracious and insightful in their comments. All in all, it was a very successful session.

During the Q & A, I talked about the narrowness of foreign policy debate in Washington and the close political kinship between the liberal interventionists of the Democratic Party and the neoconservatives that dominate the GOP. At one point, I said that "liberal interventionists are just ‘kinder, gentler' neocons, and neocons are just liberal interventionists on steroids."

Dean challenged me rather forcefully on this point, declaring that there was simply no similarity whatsoever between a smart and sensible person like U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice and a "crazy guy" like Paul Wolfowitz. (I didn't write down Dean's exact words, but I am certain that he portrayed Wolfowitz in more-or-less those terms). I responded by listing all the similarites between the two schools of thought, and the discussion went on from there.

I mention this anecdote because I wonder what Dean would say now. In case you hadn't noticed, over the weekend President Obama took the nation to war against Libya, largely on the advice of liberal interventionists like Ambassador Rice, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, and NSC aides Samantha Power and Michael McFaul. According to several news reports I've read, he did this despite objections from Secretary of Defense Robert Gates and National Security Advisor Tom Donilon.

The only important intellectual difference between neoconservatives and liberal interventionists is that the former have disdain for international institutions (which they see as constraints on U.S. power), and the latter see them as a useful way to legitimate American dominance. Both groups extol the virtues of democracy, both groups believe that U.S. power -- and especially its military power -- can be a highly effective tool of statecraft. Both groups are deeply alarmed at the prospect that WMD might be in the hands of anybody but the United States and its closest allies, and both groups think it is America's right and responsibility to fix lots of problems all over the world. Both groups consistently over-estimate how easy it will be to do this, however, which is why each has a propensity to get us involved in conflicts where our vital interests are not engaged and that end up costing a lot more than they initially expect.

So if you're baffled by how Mr. "Change You Can Believe In" morphed into Mr. "More of the Same," you shouldn't really be surprised. George Bush left in disgrace and Barack Obama took his place, but he brought with him a group of foreign policy advisors whose basic world views were not that different from the people they were replacing. I'm not saying their attitudes were identical, but the similarities are probably more important than the areas of disagreement. Most of the U.S. foreign policy establishment has become addicted to empire, it seems, and it doesn't really matter which party happens to be occupying Pennsylvania Avenue.

So where does this leave us? For starters, Barack Obama now owns not one but two wars. He inherited a deteriorating situation in Afghanistan, and he chose to escalate instead of withdrawing. Instead of being George Bush's mismanaged blunder, Afghanistan became "Obama's War." And now he's taken on a second, potentially open-ended military commitment, after no public debate, scant consultation with Congress, without a clear articulation of national interest, and in the face of great public skepticism. Talk about going with a gut instinct.

When the Security Council passed Resolution 1973 last week and it was clear we were going to war, I credited the administration with letting Europe and the Arab League take the lead in the operation. My fear back then, however, was that the Europeans and Arab states would not be up to the job and that Uncle Sucker would end up holding the bag. But even there I gave them too much credit, insofar as U.S. forces have been extensively involved from the very start, and the Arab League has already gone wobbly on us. Can anyone really doubt that this affair will be perceived by people around the world as a United States-led operation, no matter what we say about it?

More importantly, despite Obama's declaration that he would not send ground troops into Libya -- a statement made to assuage an overcommitted military, reassure a skeptical public, or both -- what is he going to do if the air assault doesn't work? What if Qaddafi hangs tough, which would hardly be surprising given the dearth of attractive alternatives that he's facing? What if his supporters see this as another case of illegitimate Western interferences, and continue to back him? What if he moves forces back into the cities he controls, blends them in with the local population, and dares us to bomb civilians? Will the United States and its allies continue to pummel Libya until he says uncle? Or will Obama and Sarkozy and Cameron then decide that now it's time for special forces, or even ground troops?

And even if we are successful, what then? As in Saddam Hussein's Iraq, over forty years of Qaddafi's erratic and despotic rule have left Libya in very poor shape despite its oil wealth. Apart from some potentially fractious tribes, the country is almost completely lacking in effective national institutions. If Qaddafi goes we will own the place, and we will probably have to do something substantial to rebuild it lest it turn into an exporter of refugees, a breeding ground for criminals, or the sort of terrorist "safe haven" we're supposedly trying to prevent in Afghanistan.

But the real lesson is what it tells us about America's inability to resist the temptation to meddle with military power. Because the United States seems so much stronger than a country like Libya, well-intentioned liberal hawks can easily convince themselves that they can use the mailed fist at low cost and without onerous unintended consequences. When you have a big hammer the whole world looks like a nail; when you have thousand of cruise missiles and smart bombs and lots of B-2s and F-18s, the whole world looks like a target set. The United States doesn't get involved everywhere that despots crack down on rebels (as our limp reaction to the crackdowns in Yemen and Bahrain demonstrate), but lately we always seems to doing this sort of thing somewhere. Even a smart guy like Barack Obama couldn't keep himself from going abroad in search of a monster to destroy.

And even if this little adventure goes better than I expect, it's likely to come back to haunt us later. One reason that the Bush administration could stampede the country to war in Iraq was the apparent ease with which the United States had toppled the Taliban back in 2001. After a string of seeming successes dating back to the 1991 Gulf War, U.S. leaders and the American public had become convinced that the Pentagon had a magic formula for remaking whole countries without breaking a sweat. It took the debacle in Iraq and the Taliban resurgence in Afghanistan to remind us of the limits of military power, and it seems to have taken Obama less than two years on the job to forget that lesson. We may get reminded again in Libya, but if we don't, the neocon/liberal alliance will be emboldened and we'll be more likely to stumble into a quagmire somewhere else.

And who's the big winner here? Back in Beijing, China's leaders must be smiling as they watch Washington walk open-eyed into another potential quagmire.

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Excellent post!


No Emoticons were harmed in this post!


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So given the state of things...how do we put the genie back in the bottle?

Will the US ever get this thing right? When will it end? How? (Iraq, Afghanistan 'Bam's Skating Stand, and Libya.)

Will we ever have a leader going forward from now who can resist flexing military muscle and bombing countries that pose no real threat?

Will the American public ever wake up and elect a president and congress that don't belong to the republican or democratic party? We need to get some real people in these seats; people that actually have some kind of integrity.

IMO--politics anymore is completely devoid of integrity. Everyone there has some agenda, and then they fall prey to party agenda's and cohorts agenda's and so on and so forth.

I think that currently, the system does not work. The only people who get elected are people who will cater to interests...thats it. Cuz without the money--you aren't buying any election....err winning any election...

And these folks that are getting elected---their beliefs and integrity is compromised from the very start---thats how they get in in the first place.

We need to elect a congress full of people without any political affiliations and people who are happy with their lives as they are and therefore, won't allow themselves be bought off by interest groups. Can this happen?


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I don't always agree with you but this is a good article.

I kind of hope they see that Libya was a huge mistake and GTFO as quick as possible (I say the same for Iraq also). Unfortunately, pride won't let that happen.


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Quote:


I don't always agree with you but this is a good article.




Don't mean to pick you out as an example, but a few of us were talking about this the other day - why do we always feel the need to clarify our disagreements or reservations like that?

We ended up talking about it because someone had preceded an expression of appreciation for Bruce Springsteen with "I don't like his politics, but...."

I mean, if someone were to ask me about Bob Marley, I wouldn't say "I don't believe in God, but he made some great tunes."

Just curious ... didn't mean to pick on you, but it's been on my mind. I've had a lot of "I don't agree with you, buts..." over the years around here.

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Quote:

[
Just curious ... didn't mean to pick on you, but it's been on my mind. I've had a lot of "I don't agree with you, buts..." over the years around here.




It's OK, now that I look at it it was a bad way to respond to you. A lot of times I just don't communicate well, I just wanted to complement you on a good article, that's all.


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I think you make a good point. I know I have been doing this at least a bit. There are a few on here that my opinions have butted heads with, and I suppose that when I say this it shows that we can find common ground despite our differences?

Good insight though


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Quote:

Don't mean to pick you out as an example, but a few of us were talking about this the other day - why do we always feel the need to clarify our disagreements or reservations like that?



Because people on MBs are myopic and the next time you post something really stupid I don't want people to make me guilty by association... therefore I have to qualify when I agree with people that I don't ALWAYS agree with them.....

I put a smiley face but deep down, I think that is why most people subconsciously do it.


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Whatever man ... we all know that the only reason you agree with Phil is that he's a radical RW tea-bagger.

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Quote:

Whatever man ... we all know that the only reason you agree with Phil is that he's a radical RW tea-bagger.




I highly doubt he touches this thread with a ten foot pole.

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That's a good article. Almost as good as the article someone posted from American Spectator on the Ruling Class in Washington.


As for the caveats . . . "I don't agree" type thing, you see that everywhere nowadays. Media, message boards, comment sections of the New York Times. I think people do that as a way of distancing themselves from potential criticisms and then do it without hesitation from there on out.

The same goes with people who, for example, criticize Obama for this that and the other thing and people reply back with assertions or accusations against right wingers, as if the person doing the original criticism is a right winger.

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