|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758
Dawg Talker
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758 |
Quote:
Daman...honestly, I'm a little surprised at you...thinking it's ok to bust unions and balance state budgets on the backs of the working class while the wealthiest keep on keeping on.
Mac,
And you think Democrats aren't trying to balance the budget on the backs of the working class? Look at California. That is their only plan. It's called raise taxes and fees until the $26 billion deficit disappears. There is no cuts and the cuts that Brown is making is just shifting money around from one place to another. In other words, we still have the deficit and wants to keep our current tax rates, even though they expire in July to "balance" the budget and even though we still have a deficit with those tax hikes.
Last edited by ~TuX~; 02/24/11 07:11 PM.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758 |
Mac, you can keep on bringing up Walker's salary which even if he forgoes it it will be nothing but a empty gesture. It's only 0.006% of their deficit. You are simply trying to shift the issue to demonize the person who want to be responisble.
Sorry, but the public sector needs cuts to occur. This means less benefits, lower wages and layoffs.
We've seen millions of people in the private sector get laid off and yet these public sector workers(at least in California) have yet to suffer that. And they keep complaining that THEY have it worse than the private sector. Seriously, it's time for them to grow up and realize the situation and problems at hand.
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
From the previous thread Quote:
Mac wrote:
Have you heard Gov. Walker say he would take a cut, along with the other state workers?
No I haven't, but at least he is there EARNING his pay. Unlike the Democratic contingent.
The public-sector employees work for us. The only CBA they should pursue is the legislative process that everyone else who wants something from the public needs to go through, the public.
From what I rad on the subject of Walkers requested cuts, that the public workers will still be paying less for their benefits those in the private sector.
I'll have to look into it more, but I don't think he is asking them to take a pay cut, but to eliminate their bargaining for more than inflation raises and additional benefits.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,821
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,821 |
Tux...sorry about starting a duplicate thread...I was looking for the same title I used on the first thread...my mistake..thanks refs for deleting the thread...sorry.
Madison police chief asks Walker to explain 'troubling' statements
February 24, 2011
Madison Police Chief Noble Wray Thursday asked Gov. Scott Walker to explain his "troubling" and "unsettling" statements captured in a secretly recorded phone conversation that he "thought about" planting troublemakers among the thousands of peaceful demonstrators at the Capitol.
The protests, heading into their 11th day, are aimed at a bill Walker proposed to strip most bargaining rights from state and local unionized employees in Wisconsin.
"I spent a good deal of time overnight thinking about Governor Walker's response, during his news conference yesterday (Wednesday), to the suggestion that his administration 'thought about' planting troublemakers among those who are peacefully protesting his bill," Wray said in a statement issued this morning." I would like to hear more of an explanation from Governor Walker as to what exactly was being considered, and to what degree it was discussed by his cabinet members.
"I find it very unsettling and troubling that anyone would consider creating safety risks for our citizens and law enforcement officers. Our department works hard dialoging with those who are exercising their First Amendment right, those from both sides of the issue, to make sure we are doing everything we can to ensure they can demonstrate safely.
"I am concerned that anyone would try to undermine these relationships. I have a responsibility to the community, and to the men and women of this department — who are working long hours protecting and serving this community — to find out more about what was being considered by state leaders."
Walker spokesman Cullen Werwie pointed to Walker's statements at the Wednesday press conference.
"People have brought up all sorts of different options," Walker said." As you saw if you've listened to the tape, we shot that down."
Walker added that it was his "biggest fear" that opposing protesters would clash last Saturday. But in the phone call with what Walker thought was a campaign supporter, the governor did not mention public safety but said such a tactic could backfire on his effort to pass his budget-repair bill.
web page
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,821
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,821 |
WISCONSIN SENATOR CALLS FOR WALKER TO RESIGN
Governor Scott Walker
Wisconsin State Capitol
Dear Governor Walker,
I am informed that a tape recording has been released in which you apparently held an extensive discussion with someone you believed to be your campaign supporter, David Koch. The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel states that the caller was actually a reporter, pretending to be David Koch, and it has posted a transcript of the recording. It appears that you admit the call occurred, and have not contested the authenticity of transcript.
David Koch is the billionaire businessman who reportedly contributed thousands to your campaign and who the media claims is a key source of funding for shadowy political groups that spend hundreds of thousands of dollars attacking your political adversaries in
our state.
At a historic moment in our State’s history, brought on by your refusal to compromise with elected officials regarding the elimination of worker’s rights, you still refuse to talk with Democratic legislators. However, you apparently have no problem taking a phone call from “Mr. Koch” and to:
• Discuss your strategy to lay off public workers to seek partisan advantage to pass your agenda;
• Discuss your plan to lure Democratic legislators to the Capitol on the pretext of negotiation, but then state that you would never actually negotiate;
• Discuss your plan to use the pretext of negotiation to get a quorum for legislative fiscal action that Republicans so far have not been able to do;
• Discuss that you considered the “planting” of paid troublemakers into the
peaceful protests at our Capitol; and to
• Give your enthusiastic acceptance to an offer from “Koch” to fly you out on a
vacation to show you a “good time” once you “crush these bastards.” Your
response was “That would be outstanding…” Given that Koch’s businesses could reap vast rewards with the ‘no bid’ sale of the Wisconsin’s power plants that you propose in your budget repair bill, this response is severely troubling.
Governor Walker, this tape would make Richard Nixon blush. If the recording and the items discussed by you are indeed your plans, you have no business being in public office in our State, and should resign.
Sincerely,
Tim Carpenter
State Senator
web page
State Senator
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758 |
Quote:
From the previous thread
Quote:
Mac wrote:
Have you heard Gov. Walker say he would take a cut, along with the other state workers?
The odd thing I see about Public Sector unions is that they influence those who give them benefits and raises from the taxpayer's dime.
I you want to be for the middle working class out there, you'd look to reduce that influence. It pits Public Unions and politicians against the taxpayers.
For those who are completely against them banning collective bargaining, would you agree with a compromise that reduces the amount of influence these unions have on politicians?
No I haven't, but at least he is there EARNING his pay. Unlike the Democratic contingent.
The public-sector employees work for us. The only CBA they should pursue is the legislative process that everyone else who wants something from the public needs to go through, the public.
From what I rad on the subject of Walkers requested cuts, that the public workers will still be paying less for their benefits those in the private sector.
I'll have to look into it more, but I don't think he is asking them to take a pay cut, but to eliminate their bargaining for more than inflation raises and additional benefits.
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758 |
Quote:
Tux...sorry about starting a duplicate thread...I was looking for the same title I used on the first thread..
I just used a more neutral title.
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,790
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,790 |
Quote:
WISCONSIN SENATOR CALLS FOR WALKER TO RESIGN
Governor Scott Walker
Wisconsin State Capitol
Dear Governor Walker,
I am informed that a tape recording has been released in which you apparently held an extensive discussion with someone you believed to be your campaign supporter, David Koch. The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel states that the caller was actually a reporter, pretending to be David Koch, and it has posted a transcript of the recording. It appears that you admit the call occurred, and have not contested the authenticity of transcript.
David Koch is the billionaire businessman who reportedly contributed thousands to your campaign and who the media claims is a key source of funding for shadowy political groups that spend hundreds of thousands of dollars attacking your political adversaries in
our state.
At a historic moment in our State’s history, brought on by your refusal to compromise with elected officials regarding the elimination of worker’s rights, you still refuse to talk with Democratic legislators. However, you apparently have no problem taking a phone call from “Mr. Koch” and to:
• Discuss your strategy to lay off public workers to seek partisan advantage to pass your agenda;
• Discuss your plan to lure Democratic legislators to the Capitol on the pretext of negotiation, but then state that you would never actually negotiate;
• Discuss your plan to use the pretext of negotiation to get a quorum for legislative fiscal action that Republicans so far have not been able to do;
• Discuss that you considered the “planting” of paid troublemakers into the
peaceful protests at our Capitol; and to
• Give your enthusiastic acceptance to an offer from “Koch” to fly you out on a
vacation to show you a “good time” once you “crush these bastards.” Your
response was “That would be outstanding…” Given that Koch’s businesses could reap vast rewards with the ‘no bid’ sale of the Wisconsin’s power plants that you propose in your budget repair bill, this response is severely troubling.
Governor Walker, this tape would make Richard Nixon blush. If the recording and the items discussed by you are indeed your plans, you have no business being in public office in our State, and should resign.
Sincerely,
Tim Carpenter
State Senator
web page
State Senator
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,790
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,790 |
j/c
Does anyone have reliable information ( that excludes Mac) on what is in Ohio Bill 5? I have heard a bunch of stuff from teachers. Some of it is outdated and some is plain wrong. I tried to read the bill but it would take me forever.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,136 |
I posted an excellent rundown in the other thread.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,136 |
Quote:
WISCONSIN SENATOR CALLS FOR WALKER TO RESIGN
....but no one heard him from the depths of that cave he's hiding in. 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,790
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,790 |
Thanks, I'll try and find it,
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,790
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,790 |
From jfanet... Here's a the best explanation I could find of what SB5 actually consists of. It sure doesn't seem like it's going to send anyone to the poorhouse. http://hispanicohio.northcoastnow.com/2011/02/23/sb-5-the-collective-bargaining-basics/Marcus Atkinson Hispanicohio.com editor Much has been reported about SB 5, the bill that would essentially break up unions and not allow them to bargain collectively. Hispanicohio.com has decided to simply give the facts, and let you, the reader come to your own conclusions. The following information was provided by the Ohio Legislative Service Commission, a non partisan body. Those if favor of the bill says it would help balance the power of public employers and employees, and in turn assist in balancing Ohio’s projected $8 billion dollar budget. Opponents suggest SB 5 is an attack on the middle class, damaging the way of life for thousands of Ohioan’s who will have trouble paying their mortgage and bills if SB 5 is passed. Senate Bill 5 would: State employees and employees of state institutions of higher education Abolishes the collective bargaining rights of employees of the state, of any agency, authority, commission, or board of the state, and of any state institution of higher education. prohibits the state, agencies, authorities, commissions, and boards of the state, and a state institution of higher education from collectively bargaining with its employees. Abolishes the Office of Collective Bargaining. Rights of public employees Removes continuation, modification, or deletion of an existing collective bargaining agreement from the subject of collective bargaining. removes a provision granting specific authority to public school employees to collectively bargain for health care benefits . authorizes public employees to refuse any representation by an exclusive representative or an employee organization. School districts, educational service centers, community schools, and STEM schools Prohibits a public employer that is a school district, educational service center, community school, or STEM school from entering into a collective bargaining agreement that does specified things, such as establishing a maximum number of students who may be assigned to a classroom or teacher. Requires collective bargaining agreements between such an education-related public employer and public employees to comply with all applicable state or local laws or ordinances regarding wages, hours, and terms and conditions of employment, unless the conflicting provision establishes benefits that are less than provided in the law or ordinance. requires the parties to consider, during negotiations, the financial status of the public employer at the time period surrounding the negotiations for purposes of determining the ability of the employer to pay for any agreed terms. Prohibits the parties from basing the ability of the employer to pay for terms of the agreement on potential future increases in the employer’s income that would only be possible by the employer obtaining funding from an outside source, including the passage of a levy or a bond issue. Dispute resolution procedures, strikes, and unfair labor practices Revises collective bargaining dispute resolution procedures. requires the employer and the State Employment Relations Board to post in a conspicuous location on the web site maintained by the board and the employer the terms of the last collective bargaining agreements offered by the employer and the exclusive representative at specific times. Revises the factors that a person or group administering an alternate dispute resolution procedure must take into account. If either party rejects a fact finding panel’s recommendations, permits the public employer to implement, in whole or in part, any of those recommendations that have been approved by the appropriate legislative authority. Removes the mandatory final offer settlement conciliation procedure for public employees who do not have the right to strike. Requires a public employer to report certain information about compensation paid to public employees under a collective bargaining agreement. Specifies that expressions of views, opinions, and arguments are not unfair labor practices, and cannot be used as evidence of such, without a threat. Repeals the provision requiring the Public Employee Collective Bargaining Law to be liberally construed. Allows public employers to set aside any provision in an existing collective bargaining agreement in the event of a fiscal emergency. Public employee pay Requires merit-based pay for most public employees, including teachers and nonteaching school employees and board and commission members, and makes other, related changes. Generally eliminates statutory salary schedules and steps. Public employee benefits Abolishes the School Employees Health Care Board, the School Employees Health Care Fund, and the Public Schools Health Care Advisory Committee, and allows the board of education of any school district to govern employee health care benefits in the same way as the governing board of any public institution of higher education. Limits public employer contributions toward health insurance premiums to 80%. Requires boards of education to adopt policies to provide leave with pay for school employees and abolishes statutorily provided leave for those employees. Abolishes continuing contracts for teachers, except for those continuing contracts in existence prior to the effective date of the bill. Prohibits a public employer from paying employee contributions to certain retirement systems. -------------------- A government that robs Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Governor Walker, this tape would make Richard Nixon blush. If the recording and the items discussed by you are indeed your plans, you have no business being in public office in our State, and should resign.
Sincerely,
Tim Carpenter
State Senator
Senator Carpenter, when asked to do the job you are paid to do, which is to debate, fight, whatever, but ultimately to vote.. you ran and hid. If that is indeed your parties plan to address all issues which you disagree with, then you and your entire party should be the first ones out the door...
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 798
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 798 |
Quote:
For those who are completely against them banning collective bargaining, would you agree with a compromise that reduces the amount of influence these unions have on politicians?
I would. First off, let me say that I don't see the collective bargaining issue as inextricably linked to the budget crises in states. For example, NJ and Maryland have gotten their fiscal houses in order without limiting bargaining. They asked for concessions from public employees and got them; they also had to do some layoffs.
The changes I could foresee for collective bargaining could be to limit bargaining to strictly wages, health care, and pensions.
There was an interesting piece in Time about other provisions in CBAs that are having detrimental effects on the quality of services provided (using teachers' unions as the example). Things like last in-first out, overprotection of seniority, strict limiting of evaluation, and overprotection of incompetent employees. I would be willing to listen to limiting the ability of collective bargaining for these kinds of provisions. I think it would positively impact the bang for the buck we get from public services.
http://econblues2011.tumblr.com/post/3485223208/time-magazine-5-new-rules-for-teachers-check-it
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,122
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,122 |
One of the awol democrats was on the phone with fox news today and said he is doing his job that he was elected to do.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,423
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,423 |
Dear Mr. Carpenter,
You are currently in violation of Wisconsin law. This means, in case you didn't understand the previous statement because of "legaleeze" or the use of too many big words, that you have broken the law, and are still breaking the law every day you play cops and robbers and "hide out" in another state.
Because of the fact that you are actively breaking the law each day that you pursue this childish and illegal activity, you should be arrested, prosecuted, and removed from office.
Tou then say that you want someone else to quit because they ..... said mean things? Oh Boo Hoo.
Go do your job and quit acting like a 3 year old or resign and let someone else do the job you are currently (as soon as you show up to pick up your paycheck) being paid to do. Playing hide and go seek is not working for your constituents. I understand that it may be fun for you and your ilk, but it is a child's game, and generally regarded as such by the vast majority of adults in this country.
Grow up, grow a set, and get yourself to work and fight for what you supposedly believe in instead of continuing to take part in activities, and encouraging activities by others, that are illegal under the Wisconsin Constitution.
Sincerely,
YTownBrownsFan.
PS: If you want to talk about fraud investigations, perhaps you should start with the mass produced doctors' excuses being handed out at your "rally". Perhaps you should look into the illegal strikes going on. These are clear and absolute cases of illegal activities. I know that you will never look for these to be investigated though ....... because those are your supporters.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,654
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,654 |
I have been pondering this subject for the past couple days and thing that the media is missing the point.
I feel that the position of eliminating collective bargaining is the first step as part of a greater strategy to eliminate pensions from the state retirement system.
Unions and state workers have fought tooth and nail to retain pensions, while the private sector moved away from them to defined benefits (401K's) a long time ago.
Pensions are a good deal, a great deal in many cases, There are examples where employees can retire at or near their ending salary by the time that they are 55. Add heath care, and a person is pretty much set. It is no secret that pension and healthcare benefits are two items that state workers have retained through giving up on salary increases.
State and cities have not funded pensions appropriately and now have to play catch up. Without change, there is the possibility that states will begin to default on their pension obligations as it consumes more of the revenue available. Defaulting on this obligation would be very ugly from a state perspective.
It does not make much sense to be paying people who are not working a full salary. Moving to a defined benefit package (401K) will address these costs which are growing at an exponential rate.
So we can discuss all we want about the perceived motivations and politically motivated strategies, but the consequences of not having a union would make this change a foregone conclusion.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,790
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,790 |
Pensions are the biggest problem imo. From what I can figure out Ohio's unions are not as strong as the ones in Wisconsin. From what I have been told the teachers in my district do pay into their pension plan and pay for part of their health care. The thing is that isn't enough. in 2014 the are changing the retirement benefits. In order for a teacher to get the full pension benefit they must work 35 years. Also, their full pension is going to be a lot less. Even with these changes that are going to go into effect it still isn't enough. I don't think the states can afford to continue with these pension plans. What didn't help is the teachers pension plan took a huge lost on a bad investment...That Kasich had them invest in.
I looked over the Bill as it stands now and I can't support it. The good thing is it is still being developed so it can be improved. Some of the things I like...
No strikes ... I personally can't stand when teachers strike. Only bad things come from it. As far as the rest of the state unions I do not want to see them strike either.
Changes in the pension plans. It is a must for Ohio to stay solvent. Personally I would like to see the whole system scrapped and have them do what the rest of America does.
Allowing state workers to bargain over wages. This was just changed earlier this week.
Things I dislike..
Taking out stepped raises for teachers and going to some kind of merit based pay. I can write forever about how merit pay will not work. Now there are negatives to the stepped pay scale.One negative is the stepped pay scale has made it very difficult for school districts to hire more qualified teachers. They will not hire a teacher who already has a masters because the districts can't afford them. Another problem the way it is here we have many teachers making over $60,000 a year. I know of one who is over $70,000.
I have no idea how many years it takes with a masters degree to hit the $60,000 mark. The man over $70,000 has been teaching for 49 years. I think caps should be put in place to limit top pay, making it more affordable. Starting teachers pay is acceptable to me since there is a stepped scale. If you remove the stepped scale and have teachers pay more for health care, pensions and still have to pay for continuing education you are going to lose qualified teachers for the simple fact that they really won't be able to afford to.
I am assuming that any merit based system will have much lower raises. If districts started teachers out higher that might balance things out.
Another issue I have is they have yet to come up with a mechanism to handle contract negotiations. Striking is no longer an option and the state does not want binding arbitration because they almost always lose.
The biggest problem I have is the way they are taking most items out of collective bargaining. If they were to write some guidelines into the bill stating how much and when they can change what state employees pay I might be okay with it. As of right now I can't see how it is fair.
I do have a wife who teaches. I am also a conservative. I have given this a lot of thought so I didn't have a knee jerk reaction to the bill. I think what is fair is somewhere in the middle.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,136 |
"Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations ... The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for ... officials ... to bind the employer ... The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives ..." FDR
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,821
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,821 |
Balancing the budget in Wisconsin is not difficult...
....cut the wages and benefits of Scottie Walker, who makes one of the higher wages for any governor in the entire USA...
...lil Scottie makes a whopping $137,092 per year and probably closer to $150k when we add wages and benefits.
...surely a state in such dire economic straights as Wisconsin is, cannot afford to pay Walker that kind of money for no more than he does.
But here is an even better idea that I GUARENTEE will work..
...CUT THE WAGES AND BENEFITS of every state worker, from Walker down to janitor by a percentage (say 10%) necessary to balance Wisconsin's budget.
...This is new concept to some who are RW Tea Party types...IT IS CALLED SHARED SACRIFICE !!!!!!
It's kind of like being on a "team" or a being a "member of the military"...EVERYONE sacrifices for the good of the unit.
In Wisconsin's case, every state worker from the highest paid (Governor) to the lowest paid state worker...they all sacrifice to put the state's budget back in balance.
Not hard to do...an easy fix...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,563
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,563 |
I think something like that will happen.
First you have to take care of the bloat, and teacher salaries, step pay etc account for a good portion of the bloat.
The guy working the streets making 25K with 2 weeks vacation is in a different situation then are teachers making 50K with 3 months vacation a year.
To be honest, I don't have a real problem with unions, but not for those working the public sector who's source of funding is supported 100% with taxpayer money.
In the private sector a union and it's workers can demand a raise. The private company can give the raise and raise prices, give the raise and cut some line item on the P&L, or move operations elsewhere.
Public sector can't do that without cutting services or raising taxes since the option to move isn't available. And face it, the moving option is in many cases the only bargaining position a company has. Sometimes they can't pass on a price increase and there aren't any meaningful cuts that can be made elsewhere.
What are they going to do....say schools are closed and every chlid is now to be home schooled??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
Quote:
Balancing the budget in Wisconsin is not difficult...
....cut the wages and benefits of Scottie Walker, who makes one of the higher wages for any governor in the entire USA...
...lil Scottie makes a whopping $137,092 per year and probably closer to $150k when we add wages and benefits.
And but a mere 1/10000 of 1% of the states financial obligations.
Quote:
...surely a state in such dire economic straights as Wisconsin is, cannot afford to pay Walker that kind of money for no more than he does.
And state senators are making 174,000, and the federal budget is just as bad as Wisconsins. And half of them aren't even showing up for work.
Quote:
But here is an even better idea that I GUARENTEE will work..
...CUT THE WAGES AND BENEFITS of every state worker, from Walker down to janitor by a percentage (say 10%) necessary to balance Wisconsin's budget.
...This is new concept to some who are RW Tea Party types...IT IS CALLED SHARED SACRIFICE !!!!!!
It's kind of like being on a "team" or a being a "member of the military"...EVERYONE sacrifices for the good of the unit.
In Wisconsin's case, every state worker from the highest paid (Governor) to the lowest paid state worker...they all sacrifice to put the state's budget back in balance.
Not hard to do...an easy fix...
He isn't asking them to take a pay cut, he is asking them to pay more for their own benefits, like the rest of working America. Some may see that as a cut since it means less take home pay at the end of the week, but if they don't like it, they are more than welcome to look elsewhere for work. Of course they won't because they know how easy and good they have it.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,964
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,964 |
Let's see, a flat, across-the-board 10% decrease. Why, that would unfairly benefit those with too much money! We can't do that!
What we should do, is take the top 10%, and reduce them by 30%. Then take the next 30% and reduce them 20%. Then take the next 40% and reduce them by 10%. The bottom 20% should have an Increase of 10%. Then you need to go out and find an additional 10% who do not work at all and are totally outside the system and give them 10% of average salary.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Pensions are a good deal, a great deal in many cases, There are examples where employees can retire at or near their ending salary by the time that they are 55. Add heath care, and a person is pretty much set.
Pensions are a good deal if you are the person that gets to work for 30 years and get paid for 60 years... if you are the state or the paying entity then they suck really bad.
Quote:
It is no secret that pension and healthcare benefits are two items that state workers have retained through giving up on salary increases.
Unless they are making about half of what a private sector person is making, it's a bad deal for the state.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758 |
Quote:
....cut the wages and benefits of Scottie Walker, who makes one of the higher wages for any governor in the entire USA...
You might want to rethink that line saying he's one of the higher wages of any governor.
Salaries in 2007
California* $206K
New York $179K
Michigan $177k
NJ*: $175K
Virginia: $175k
Penn. $164k
Illinois: $155k
Wash: $150K
Conn: $150k
Maryland: $150k
Ohio: $144k
Vermont: $143k
Nevada: $141k
Mass: $140k
Oklahoma: $140k
Kentucky: $137k
Wisconsin $134k
* elected to forgo salaries.
Average salary is $124k
[Source]
When I find more up to date figures, I will post them.
Last edited by ~TuX~; 02/25/11 04:20 PM.
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
tux, this doesn't compare but here you go... web page But by comparison... Bret Bielema, Wisconsin's football coach, who is also a state employee, got a raise to $2.5 million per year just a couple weeks ago. and the offensive coordinator also got a raise so now he makes just over $500,000...
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,267
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,267 |
No way! Make those Janitors pay. The state can't afford their healthcare but the Janitors can.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758 |
Quote:
tux, this doesn't compare but here you go...
web page
But by comparison...
Bret Bielema, Wisconsin's football coach, who is also a state employee, got a raise to $2.5 million per year just a couple weeks ago. and the offensive coordinator also got a raise so now he makes just over $500,000...
Appears Wisc governor got a $3k raise since 2007, but still it's not one of the highest.still a middle of the pack salary.
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,656
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,656 |
Quote:
The guy working the streets making 25K with 2 weeks vacation is in a different situation then are teachers making 50K with 3 months vacation a year.
Did that guy in the streets spend upwards of $50,000 for a college education to better himself and put himself in a position to earn a higher salary?
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,825
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,825 |
Quote:
Quote:
The guy working the streets making 25K with 2 weeks vacation is in a different situation then are teachers making 50K with 3 months vacation a year.
Did that guy in the streets spend upwards of $50,000 for a college education to better himself and put himself in a position to earn a higher salary?
Unfortunately, a lot of them did but can't find work in their field.
Some people are making it sound as if teachers are the only ones with student loans. That's simply not true. Teachers have loans at the same rate as anyone that went to college.
To use the argument "teachers have student loans" as justification for anything is, well, not an argument.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
No way! Make those Janitors pay. The state can't afford their healthcare but the Janitors can.
By "the state" do you mean the middle class tax payers? See, "the state" has no money except what it collects in taxes from the taxpayers... so the janitor can't afford to contribute 15% of his own healthcare but evidently the guy that works at Home Depot can afford to pay it. 
I actually don't disagree with macs thought of cutting pay from top to bottom in the state.. I disagree that that is the only way to balance the budget though, they also need to take a serious look at bloated programs, unnecessary programs, etc..
Do you realize that if every civilian employee for the US federal government would take just a $100 per year pay cut that we could save $180,000,000 a year? Add to that the fact that the current President, the previous president, and everybody in congress for the last 10 years should be working for free... and we could start to make a little dent. 
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
These days? Probably.  At any rate ... this isn't about salary. I think unions always bring up salary, because when comparing strictly salaries, union employees always appear underpaid. But this isn't about just the salaries ... it's the benefits, and more specifically PENSIONS. In every budget crisis, I always hear this word come up. It's about paying people that no longer work there, and this starts to add up over the years. Didn't GM or one of the companies that went into bankruptcy say that a huge portion (like over 50%) of their employee spending was going towards pensions ... people who no longer work there. When you start to throw on all the other benefits they usually get and those "small" salaries they make start to add up quickly.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,821
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,821 |
Quote:
Quote:
....cut the wages and benefits of Scottie Walker, who makes one of the higher wages for any governor in the entire USA...
You might want to rethink that line saying he's one of the higher wages of any governor.
Salaries in 2007
California* $206K
New York $179K
Michigan $177k
NJ*: $175K
Virginia: $175k
Penn. $164k
Illinois: $155k
Wash: $150K
Conn: $150k
Maryland: $150k
Ohio: $144k
Vermont: $143k
Nevada: $141k
Mass: $140k
Oklahoma: $140k
Kentucky: $137k
Wisconsin $134k
* elected to forgo salaries.
Average salary is $124k
[Source]
When I find more up to date figures, I will post them.
Tux...I stand by my statement ...
......"Scottie Walker, who makes one of the higher wages for any governor in the entire USA"...
According to your list, his pay ranks as the 17th highest wage of the 50 governors and your list is a 2007, which means it is outdated. I read somewhere that Walker's 2011 wage is something like $144,500 (est).
He needs to join all state workers and cut his wage and benefits the same percentage necessary to balance Wisconsin's state budget.
SHARED SACRIFICE ...something Republicans seem to be allergic to.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,790
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,790 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
....cut the wages and benefits of Scottie Walker, who makes one of the higher wages for any governor in the entire USA...
You might want to rethink that line saying he's one of the higher wages of any governor.
Salaries in 2007
California* $206K
New York $179K
Michigan $177k
NJ*: $175K
Virginia: $175k
Penn. $164k
Illinois: $155k
Wash: $150K
Conn: $150k
Maryland: $150k
Ohio: $144k
Vermont: $143k
Nevada: $141k
Mass: $140k
Oklahoma: $140k
Kentucky: $137k
Wisconsin $134k
* elected to forgo salaries.
Average salary is $124k
[Source]
When I find more up to date figures, I will post them.
Tux...I stand by my statement ...
......"Scottie Walker, who makes one of the higher wages for any governor in the entire USA"...
According to your list, his pay ranks as the 17th highest wage of the 50 governors and your list is a 2007, which means it is outdated. I read somewhere that Walker's 2011 wage is something like $144,500 (est).
He needs to join all state workers and cut his wage and benefits the same percentage necessary to balance Wisconsin's state budget.
SHARED SACRIFICE ...something Republicans seem to be allergic to.
Do you think that if it is outdated, then so are the others?
I would suspect the changes that all state employees would also apply to him since he is a state employee. He is not asking for anyone to decrease pay. he is wanting them to change the way pensions and benefits are paid.
Dropping his salary would only be a symbolic change. I also think it would be smart to do it.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
....cut the wages and benefits of Scottie Walker, who makes one of the higher wages for any governor in the entire USA...
You might want to rethink that line saying he's one of the higher wages of any governor.
Salaries in 2007
California* $206K
New York $179K
Michigan $177k
NJ*: $175K
Virginia: $175k
Penn. $164k
Illinois: $155k
Wash: $150K
Conn: $150k
Maryland: $150k
Ohio: $144k
Vermont: $143k
Nevada: $141k
Mass: $140k
Oklahoma: $140k
Kentucky: $137k
Wisconsin $134k
* elected to forgo salaries.
Average salary is $124k
[Source]
When I find more up to date figures, I will post them.
Tux...I stand by my statement ...
......"Scottie Walker, who makes one of the higher wages for any governor in the entire USA"...
According to your list, his pay ranks as the 17th highest wage of the 50 governors and your list is a 2007, which means it is outdated. I read somewhere that Walker's 2011 wage is something like $144,500 (est).
He needs to join all state workers and cut his wage and benefits the same percentage necessary to balance Wisconsin's state budget.
SHARED SACRIFICE ...something Republicans seem to be allergic to.
Do you think that if it is outdated, then so are the others?
I would suspect the changes that all state employees would also apply to him since he is a state employee. He is not asking for anyone to decrease pay. he is wanting them to change the way pensions and benefits are paid.
Dropping his salary would only be a symbolic change. I also think it would be smart to do it.
it might be a smart thing, but it's only an empty gesture. mac is trying to use it as an argument to make walker look bad.
17th highest paid out of 50 is not one of the highest. it's the higher end of middle of the pack. 25-26 is the exact middle.
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 294
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 294 |
Quote:
According to your list, his pay ranks as the 17th highest wage of the 50 governors and your list is a 2007, which means it is outdated. I read somewhere that Walker's 2011 wage is something like $144,500 (est).
Sounds like Mr. Walker's in the wrong bisiness, remember this guy.
Thanks to DC
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,821
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,821 |
Quote:
Do you think that if it is outdated, then so are the others?
I would suspect the changes that all state employees would also apply to him since he is a state employee. He is not asking for anyone to decrease pay. he is wanting them to change the way pensions and benefits are paid.
Dropping his salary would only be a symbolic change. I also think it would be smart to do it.
pd...the 2007 list referenced is obviously outdated..I tried to find a 2011 list...seems none exists yet.
As I stated, Scottie Walker's 2011 salary is $144,500 (est)...I have not seen an updated 2011 list like Tux posted, of all State Governors so I don't know if Scottie is now in the top 10 highest paid Governors, or not.
Pd...I'm not talking about any "symbolic pay cut"...I'm serious when I say..."CUT THE WAGES AND BENEFITS of every state worker, from Walker down to janitor by a percentage (say 10%) necessary to balance Wisconsin's budget"...
Whatever it takes...
Another idea...if the Gov. Scottie Walker won't do this, the citizens of Wisconsin should see that it becomes a statewide ballot issue to be voted on by the people during the next election.
It should be the law of the land, every state...any state budget short falls will paid for by a shared sacrifice by all state employees, from the Governor down to the lowest paid worker...same percentage of sacrifice by all.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,821
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,821 |
Quote:
Sounds like Mr. Walker's in the wrong bisiness, remember this guy.
Roo...Walker would never work the number of hours this bus driver did...BTW, Walker gets paid the same regardless if he is spending half day golfing, jetting around the country (or ice fishing).
Side note...you do realize Walker has never worked a real job in his entire life? He is a career politician...
That bus driver is going to spend 12 to 16 hours a day driving that bus. Also, why doesn't the state hire another bus driver so they don't have to pay so much overtime?
It is a meaningless talking point that is created by the state because they won't add enough workers to cover the workload. Don't blame the driver for taking advantage of the opportunity..blame the state management in charge of manning.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,821
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,821 |
tux...found it...
Updated info on Scott Walker's pay...along with other elected state officials...looking at their wages, they need to sacrifice too !
SALARIES OF STATE ELECTED OFFICIALS
Effective January 2011
CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
Governor
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$144,423
Lieutenant Governor
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
76,261
Secretary of State . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
68,556
State Treasurer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
68,556
Attorney General
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
140,147
Superintendent of Public Instruction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
120,111
Constitutional officers may not receive a pay raise during their term of office. All officers, except the superintendent of public instruction, begin serving 4-year terms in January 2011. Thus, they will continue to receive the salaries in effect at the time they began their terms until the expiration of their terms in January 2015. If an incumbent resigns, dies, or is removed, the officer assuming the office through appointment or election (or succession, in the case of the lieutenant governor assuming the office of the governor) will receive the salary provided in the compensation plan which is applicable at the time he or she takes office. Except for the superintendent, the salaries of all officers were increased approximately 5.35% from the previous term. The incumbent superintendent will continue to receive the salary in effect at the beginning of his 4-year term until it expires in July 2013.
MEMBERS OF THE 2011-2012 LEGISLATURE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $49,943
The salary for legislators serving in the 2011-12 Legislature is unchanged from the 2009-10 Legislature. The salary for legislators who served in the 2009-10 Legislature increased approximately 5.3% from the 2007-08 session rate ($47,413). The 2007-08 rate was a 4% increase from the 2005-06 session rate ($45,569). Salaries for legislators and constitutional officers had been unchanged from the 2003-04 to the 2005-06 biennium. The Speaker of the Assembly receives an additional stipend, which is currently $25 per month.
Per Diem. Section 13.123 (1), Wisconsin Statutes, and legislative Joint Rule 85 authorize legislators to claim a “per diem” allowance for food and lodging expenses for each day spent in Madison on legislative business, not including Saturdays or Sundays unless the legislator is in Madison on one of those days attending a session of the legislature or a meeting of a standing committee as a member of the committee. Legislators who do not declare a need to establish a temporary residence in Madison may receive half of the per diem rate. Members may also receive reimbursement for actual expenses incurred in attending committee meetings outside of Madison.
2001 Wisconsin Act 16 set the legislative per diem at 90% of the rate established by the U.S. General Services Administration for travel by federal employees to the city of Madison. However, under the Wisconsin Constitution’s (Article IV, Section 8) provision that each house of the legislature may determine the rules of its own proceedings, the organization committee of each house sets the actual maximum per diem rates that may be claimed by members. Despite subsequent adjustments in the federal travel allowance, the rates set by the committees have remained the same since 2001 at $88 ($44 for Dane County area members).
JUDICIAL BRANCH
Supreme Court Chief Justice . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $152,495
Supreme Court Justice . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 144,495
Court of Appeals Judge . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 136,316
Circuit Court Judge . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 128,600
The salaries of all justices and judges are adjusted to the prevailing schedule in the state compensation plan whenever any member of the judicial branch takes office, at which time salaries for all jurists are adjusted to the applicable amounts in the plan. The amounts in the chart are applicable for the period July 5, 2009, through July 2, 2011. However, these amounts are the same as in the previous compensation plan.
District Attorneys. The compensation plan also sets the salaries of district attorneys, who are elected in each prosecutorial district but are paid by the state. The salaries vary depending upon the population of the prosecutorial unit, and currently range from a high of $134,200 in Milwaukee County to a low of $98,147 in prosecutorial units with populations below 35,000. As with constitutional officers, salaries of district attorneys may not be increased during their 4-year terms of office. However, a district attorney who takes office by special election or appointment will receive the applicable rate of pay provided in the compensation plan.
HOW SALARIES ARE DETERMINED
Salary Levels Set by Office of State Employment Relations. Sections 20.923 and 230.12, Wisconsin Statutes, created by Chapter 90, Laws of 1973, and amended by 1983 Wisconsin Act 27 and 2003 Wisconsin Act 33, provide the current procedure for setting salaries of elected state officials.
The process requires the Director of the Office of State Employment Relations (OSER) to submit proposed changes in the compensation plan for elected officials to the legislature’s Joint Committee on Employment Relations. The biennial compensation plan is typically submitted in June of odd-numbered years. If approved by the committee, the plan goes into effect. The committee may modify the director’s proposal if it chooses. These modifications may be disapproved by the governor within 10 calendar days, but a vote of six members of the committee can set aside the governor’s action.
Previously, the administration of the compensation plan was performed by the Wisconsin Department of Employment Relations. 2003 Wisconsin Act 33 abolished the department and attached OSER (formerly named the Office of State Human Resources Management) to the Department of Administration.
Salary May Not Be Increased During Terms of Office. Article IV, Section 26 (2), Wisconsin Constitution, provides that “the compensation of a public officer may not be increased or diminished during the term of office.” Amendments have created two exceptions:
�
An April 1992 constitutional amendment provides that all legislators, including those elected in special elections, will receive the same salary throughout the legislature’s biennial session. This allows holdover senators (those in the middle of a 4-year term) to receive an adjustment when the new legislature is inaugurated, so that their salary matches that of newly elected senators and representatives to the assembly.
�
Since being amended in 1967, the constitution has provided that the salaries of the entire judicial branch will be adjusted to reflect the salary schedule in effect when any new justice or judge takes office.
Source: State of Wisconsin Compensation Plan, 2009-2011, Section B. Available on the Internet at the Web site of the Office of State Employment Relations: http://oser.state.wi.us/.
web page
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum The situation in Wisconsin [Part
2]
|
|
