DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum pass rush question...

im watchin some College football tonight...go NCST, anyway.

What im noticing when their blitzes are effective are two things...one theyre overloading one side and there arent enough blockers to stop everyone there...and the other...and this is one that im wondering if its why we dont have marked success rushing the passer is that tonight NCST's DLers are collecting one and two blockers which is freeing up the blitzers.


I havent paid enough attention to notice...but have our blitzes in the past been awful because our DLers arent collecting blockers freeing up our LBs?

We talk about how many times we see our blitzers run right into blockers...is that why? and if so...how can we adjust/counter/improve this? And please dont say get better DLers...thats obvious, but is there a technique that we can employ thatll do it? Or...when our DLers are getting single blockers shouldnt they be breaking through?

Our pass rush wasn't too bad from what I saw, I have seen much worse from this team in past years. I think Rob is just trying to get a feel of what works best with this group of players LB's we have and will develop blitz packages that work with certain personel, he's one of the more aggressive DC's in the league when it comes to blitzing, i'm sure if he had it his way he would blitz on every down. What I want to see more than anything are guys bull rushing the OL knocking them over and getting the sack, thats demoralizing for an offense.

Simply put, in a 3-4 you have 3 DL trying to occupy 5 OL. Now add in a TE or RB left in to chip or help block....

The 3-4 is most useful against stopping the run and will at times be exploited by the pass moreso than a 4-3 D. There should be more jamming of the wideouts at the line than what we have seen...and if you noticed last week there was a lot of shifting around by our DL and LBers prior to the play, in an attempt to disguise which direction the blitz was coming from. This works good if you have the talent, but again we do not have the LBers to effectively run good 3-4 schemes.

The DL as well.....you have to have linemen capable of filling 2 gaps to allow the LBers to bring it from the outside and contain in the middle.....and you need a Secondary that you can trust.

The problem is we run the "read & react" 3-4 like NE. It's a 2 gap system where the DL are head up on the C & T's and responsible for the gap on either side. This is supposed to occupy the OL and let the LBs attack the line. the problem is, we don't attack the line. our LBs are, IMHO, too slow to run a 2-gap 3-4.

I feel we'd be MUCH better off with the personnel we have to run a 1-gap 3-4, where we can offset the DL, attack the gap (S. Rodgers strength) and shoot our big slower LBs into the opposite gap left by the OL having to honor the DL push.

this would be set up by a 5-2 look, pre-snap, where we could have the LBs loop behind a slanting line, or just run the "run blitz" against the OL gaps. This gives pressure up the middle, and inhibits a run game from getting steam.

hmmm...

that does make sense...i actually feel like we saw a lot of that last week...especially since we were more effective that way. i remember seeing the 5-2 looking setup.

I do think we did a great job last week, i was more looking at the preseason and previous years as the basis of my question.


I guess a follow up question to you ham...looking at last week, did it look more like a Rob Ryan Raiders 3-4 or a Mangini NE 3-4?

My guess is that we will situationally switch between them all.

We've shown all sorts of 3-4 looks, 4-3 looks, we've done the 5-2 and even a 1-5 that I can recall.... we mix it up all the time.
Our "base" may be that read-react 3-4, but that by no means dictates that is what we're doing on every snap.

It looked to me like were were using a "little" more of the R&R 3-4 than the 1-gap. We did give some varied looks at the line, but the key is to offset the nose tackle to "underload" the line. I saw, and may have missed a bunch, mostly head-on from the NT on the C.

I'll try to watch a little closer this week.

Overall I don't think we were bad on the pressures, but I'd like to see some more of the "Ryan's Raiders" flavor of the 3-4.

Make them squish the tackles to the inside to prevent the blitz coming in the A & B gaps, and you automatically open the edges for a safety/CB blitz

That, as they say, is the strength of the 3-4 base, you can morph it all whichways.

That being said, the key (once again IMHO) is the intent of the looks you give. I.E. you're giving all these looks with the intent of bringing a blitz from somewhere, but where? Pittsburgh does this well.

I feel for a team to be effective in the 3-4 (Pats excepted) you must be committed to the blitz, whether to run stuff or to pressure the QB. When you do commit, you can the add wrinkles such as dropping a DE into coverage while 2 LBs blitz the T where he previously had lined up.

Add in the ability to offset the NT and you can really create confusion on the OL. Blown blocking schemes are the 12th man in your D.

For all of the love given to Rob Ryan, it should be remembered that the 2008 Cleveland Browns defense was better in almost every statistical category than the 2008 Oakland Raiders defense.

IMHO, It remains to be seen whether or not he can become an elite coordinator.

Elite, I don't need.

Solid, consistent, above-average. All those work for me just fine.

I havent paid enough attention to notice...but have our blitzes in the past been awful because our DLers arent collecting blockers freeing up our LBs?


Thats a small tiny part..the larger part that I see is the Browns haven't have a pass rush specialist since Jamir..these guys just head straight into a blocker ,and they lack pass rush moves..now it appears that the youngster Benard has some skills..

I know about stats but we are currently in a four-way tie at second in sacks and tied with the Jets for Passes Defensed, according to NFL.com. I didn't see a stat for hurries, which I did not think we got a lot of. I thought I was seeing tighter coverage, no more 5 yard cushions. I am hoping our improved secondary will allow for a more aggressive, attacking front 7. We need that monster LB.

Attack, can you answer is there some reason that our blitzers do not appear to be making any attempt to avoid blockers? It looks, to me at least, like they are trying to take out the blocker rather than the QB? Are they just that bad? Or just that slow that the blockers can easily maintain angle?

My guess is that part of it is technique as you do not want to immediately run to one side of a blocker because all that will do is give the blocker a direction to send you, opening the ground to the other side for the play.... so you go at the blocker and read the play as you're going in, then you try to shed the blocker to one side while filling what's left.

If you can't shed them, then you're hosed, or hoping to make an ankle tackle as the play goes past you.

Right...

but just on that thought...look at most teams blitzes...the guy that they blitz seems to usually be coming through a wide open hole in their OL blocking...why dont we ever get that?

I mean we did better against TB with it...but generally that doesnt happen. is taht a part of the read and react 3-4? what is the reasoning for that?