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Just considering the thought that LeBron may leave...
what could the Cavs do to remain a championship contender?
My thought...
Cavs wishlist should immediately become.
1. DWade...your PG right now is a very very good backup. Mo Williams is a great off the bench scorer, and DWade becomes your immediate star. AND, you get a great PG that has pedigree, a ring, and he is a game changer that you'll need if LeBron leaves. so...Cleveland gets a gamechanger and a solid PG that they havent had.
2. Josh Howard, Michael Redd, Peja Stojakavic, Matt Barnes, Richard Jefferson, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, or Will Bynum (restricted)...point is...find a 3-man to make things happen. Howard and Redd would be the best choices, as would Matt Barnes...
This way, Cleveland gets the game changer point guard that it hasnt had, and it replaces the 3 man that LeBron is...not of course with the best talent, but with comparable talent. in a replacement sense.
What do you think Cleveland should do if LeBron leaves...basically...what is your plan B?
"It has to start somewhere
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What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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i'd rather not worry about this until the Cavs playoffs are over. we will have plenty of time to pull our hair out then.
just know that there's virtually no way of getting Wade to Cleveland (not like he'd want to anyway) and Josh Howard has been terrible (and Redd and Stojakovic haven't been great either).
I personally think planB is going to be a complete rebuild with our young assets and sell off our contracts to either championship contenders or other teams looking to save $$$ (getting back young players with long contracts in return and draft picks).
it won't be pretty for a couple years, but if you aren't close to a championship in the NBA, the likeliest way to get better, is to get really bad first.
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If LBJ is gone you have to stockpile young developing players and draft picks. Expensive FA will not get it done in the long term.
I think he stays if the fans can keep themselves from running him out of town.
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.
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Quote:
What do you think Cleveland should do if LeBron leaves...basically...what is your plan B?
Suck for a couple of years until the next Lebron comes out of college.
Dwade isn't going to ditch Miami and bypass Chicago to come here if Lebron couldn't win with what we have. Besides we don't have the cap room to sign anybody at a max deal. We are in serious trouble if Lebron leaves. Gilbert and Ferry sort of went "all-in" hoping to win a Championship this year ... if it's not enough to convince Lebron to stay, we'll be stuck holding the bill.
I believe with Z, Lebron and Shaq coming off the books, we'd still only have around $10 million to sign someone. (Probably less if the cap goes down) We aren't bringing in much of anybody with that much. Our core list of guys using most of our cap would be Mo, West, Gibson, Varejao and Jamison. We also have no first round draft pick this year. About the only thing we could do is work out some sort of sign and trade with Shaq, but I don't really think there will be many takers since most people cleared out their cap space for THIS off-season.
Which pretty much leaves us with what I said above ... suck for a few years until we can get another star player. 
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i think lbj is gonna stay, win or lose. no way does he leave his hometown like this. he knows the implications of what could happen to the organization. to businesses downtown.
but what i am worried about, is after this season, if shaq goes which i believe he does, and z retires, or even if he comes back, you are left with no 7 footer in the frontcourt. and guess what folks? the magic aren't going anywhere. they are going to be around for a while. and with dwight howard there, it seems like they can plug in just about anyone and make it work. they made turkoglu work who now looks horrible. they are making freaking vince carter work.
which is why i find the chicago thing pretty hilarious. derek rose? great player. joakim noah? not bad.
but if you insert lbj on that team, they get demolished by orlando in a series.
that roster is still horrible. i think it's pretty hilarious all the talk of chicago. i don't buy it.
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If Lebron DOES stay ... I think it's critical that we work sign and trades with Shaq and Z's contracts to get people who want out of other cities. I mean, could we convince Bosh to come here if Lebron was here? Toronto would either have the option of getting a draft pick/Hickson/Shaq expiring and sending Bosh to Cleveland ... or just watch him walk for free elsewhere. We could do the same thing with Z, and he would likely retire anyway. Maybe Atlanta would be willing to do something similar for Joe Johnson? Joe for draft pick/Gibson/Z expiring? That would still leave us without a massive immovable force upfront ... but quite a bit stronger elsewhere.
They key of course is Lebron ... if he goes, we pretty much lose all reason for a free agent to come here.
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I'm among the few that doesn't think he's going anywhere..
There really isn't a big reason to move.
No team can pay him more than the Cavs and because he's really a worldwide marketing machine recognized even in some third world countries, the endorsement deals aren't going to be significantly better elsewhere.
And, the management and ownership of the Cavs have demonstrated time and again that they have one goal,, surround LBJ with talent and win a Championship.
All the other teams can demonstrate is talk...
I'm just not convinced that he's going anywhere.
I was watching All Bets are Off yesterday for a few moments.. I can't believe the stuff that some of those fans were saying...
Gheesh.. Things like, LBJ wants to leave so he's just laying down and not working? Holy smokes, the guy had a bad game.. it happens..
#GMSTRONG
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If he leaves, start planning to move the franchise. Seriously, NBA would be dead in this town. If we can resign a hometown guy when we have a team that contends every year....this franchise has no chance in the future.
Hey, maybe we can steal an NHL team if the Cavs move. I like hockey better.
With all that being said, I still think it's 60% for him staying (even after last game). Maybe it drops to 50% if we end up losing this series. He said one of his goals was to win a championship for Cleveland and wouldn't rest until that was done. But who knows...CC said he wanted to stay here and could have signed the Tribe reasonable offer but went onto NY to somehow cure his postseason issues.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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depends on how the NBA let us shape up Shaq and Z's contracts.
I think Colangelo would let Bosh walk before he paid JJ Hickson $18mil next year. I know, I know. He wouldn't be paying him that. He'd be paying Shaq or Z's expiring deal that $$$ and work a buyout and get Hickson as his player. But, from the end perspective, he pays all that $$$ for Hickson (the only guy expected to play).
Now, if the NBA let's us do a deal where Shaq or Z sign to a non-guaranteed contract for $18mil (where maybe $3mil is guaranteed to get them to do it), then sure, we could do that. But, I don't think Stern will approve such shenanigans.
So, if we want Bosh, I think we need to giveup a set of players like Hickson, AV, and Delonte. That's quite a bit, but I think it will be needed if we expect to get him (possibly Colangelo will let us send them Jamison instead of AV, which I would much, much prefer).
#gmstrong
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Quote:
I think Colangelo would let Bosh walk before he paid JJ Hickson $18mil next year.
Why would he do that? It's just one year, he would also get some draft picks on top of that ... and he would likely play Shaq anyway. Even Hickson for 18 mil one year, and much less for years after is a LOT better than getting nothing for Bosh.
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Quote:
depends on how the NBA let us shape up Shaq and Z's contracts.
I think Colangelo would let Bosh walk before he paid JJ Hickson $18mil next year. I know, I know. He wouldn't be paying him that. He'd be paying Shaq or Z's expiring deal that $$$ and work a buyout and get Hickson as his player. But, from the end perspective, he pays all that $$$ for Hickson (the only guy expected to play).
Now, if the NBA let's us do a deal where Shaq or Z sign to a non-guaranteed contract for $18mil (where maybe $3mil is guaranteed to get them to do it), then sure, we could do that. But, I don't think Stern will approve such shenanigans.
So, if we want Bosh, I think we need to giveup a set of players like Hickson, AV, and Delonte. That's quite a bit, but I think it will be needed if we expect to get him (possibly Colangelo will let us send them Jamison instead of AV, which I would much, much prefer).
if the cavs lose this series, and lebron tells the cavs that he's staying. i think nobody is untradable. the only guy you can argue is andy, because of his relationship with lebron, because of what he brings, because of his unselfishness to be willing to come off the bench and because he's a young guy right in the same age group as lebron.
everybody else will be considered a trading tool.
if the cavs win the championship, you can argue that situation is almost the same. the fact that we will have no 7 footer scares me. the lakers, magic, and celtics all have size.
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Quote:
Quote:
I think Colangelo would let Bosh walk before he paid JJ Hickson $18mil next year.
Why would he do that? It's just one year, he would also get some draft picks on top of that ... and he would likely play Shaq anyway. Even Hickson for 18 mil one year, and much less for years after is a LOT better than getting nothing for Bosh.
only if he can unload Turkoglu as well. then, I think he'd be more accepting of taking a one-time hit.
otherwise, Toronto gets stuck in mediocre territory fighting for the 6-8 seeds (if that) every year but not quite being terrible enough to get a great draft pick.
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I'm among the few that doesn't think he's going anywhere..
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I'm just not convinced that he's going anywhere.
..
Why would you think he's not leaving? If he was staying why would'nt he come out and say so? Why leave the city and fans hanging for 3 years. Seems to me you put alot of faith in a kid that walks around Cleveland in a Yankees hat.I hope he does leave. I would rather watch Jhonny hit into a double play than any more of that crap. Basketball will be dead here and we can move on to important stuff like the Browns.
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Basketball will be dead here
I'm sure I will have to repeat this over the next couple months, but....
if the Tribe could survive 1959-1993 in Cleveland
if the Cavs could survive the Fratello, Wittman, Lucas, and Silas years
then, basketball could and would survive in Cleveland without LeBron James. it would not THRIVE as it does today, but it would most definitely survive.
(note: Browns not included because they will seemingly always be #1 in this town and that's not a fair comparison)
#gmstrong
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I think Bosh is the most overrated, I think Cleveland needs to find an elite guy that has a ring, or has threatened at least. Bosh hasnt won a series...think McGrady.
Look in the draft for your big guy (like a Daniel Orton or DeMarcus Cousins...
let Hickson become more of a star (he can hes young and super talented) and have a starting 5 of like a...
DWade (or other young PG, Ray Felton is available) West, Josh Howard, Jamison, AV...find a scoring big man that can take the pressure off of, or replace AV and youve a talented squad.
Mo Williams off the bench, maybe make a sign and trade of someone who is a decent scorer, like Stojakavic used to be and things will be great...maybe like Eddie House
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Steve, I really like your football posts, but I cannot disagree more with you so far in this thread on hoops. Quote:
I think Bosh is the most overrated, I think Cleveland needs to find an elite guy that has a ring, or has threatened at least. Bosh hasnt won a series...think McGrady.
He has been 'The Guy' for a team in Toronto. He shouldn't be 'The Guy' that's just not him. He's more of a Pau Gasol who was much more like McGrady than him to this point of his career and that worked out nicely for LA. Bosh doesn't really deserve the 'max' but it's what would be needed to convince him to come here and he is a legit 2nd star. If you have LeBron with him, that's why you do it.
Without LeBron, I agree that there's no need for him (he won't be winning you anything and keeping you from getting someone who could). He also wouldn't agree to come here without LeBron, so moot point.
Quote:
Look in the draft for your big guy (like a Daniel Orton or DeMarcus Cousins...
we won't draft high enough to get a superstar big man. really good big men are really hard to come by, that's why there's such a fuss over Bosh (and Gasol when LA 'stole' him).
unless we bottom out, which your strategy doesn't do.
Quote:
let Hickson become more of a star (he can hes young and super talented) and have a starting 5 of like a...
DWade (or other young PG, Ray Felton is available) West, Josh Howard, Jamison, AV...find a scoring big man that can take the pressure off of, or replace AV and youve a talented squad.
Mo Williams off the bench, maybe make a sign and trade of someone who is a decent scorer, like Stojakavic used to be and things will be great...maybe like Eddie House
all nice in theory, but Dwayne Wade ain't walking through that door especially if LeBron leaves (Miami would have to play ball with us to get him here and they have no motivation to do so. they can let him walk and trust they can entice another star to go to South Beach next offseason or this one with Bosh/JoeJohnson. They have cap room unlike us).
Josh Howard is terrible. His game has fallen as much as anyones the past couple years. I liked him when he first came into the league. no more.
Jamison/AV would get torn to shreds by Dwight Howard. Orlando isn't going anywhere, so we must have them in our plans to compete.
plus, to get Felton, Howard, and any other new player...we need to trade for them (well, maybe we can get Felton with our small cap room). so, we're giving up players to do that.
Bottom Line:
Felton/West/Howard/Jamison/AV - this lineup with Mo, Hickson and such on the bench might be good enough to get up to the 6th seed. maybe if things fall right. but, it's better long-term strategy to get rid of the higher priced vets, bottom out while the youngsters are learning and add high draft picks to the mix to become a championship contender down the road.
Presti in OKC is doing it the right way. Portland tried to but got unlucky with injury riddled players. That's the blueprint.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
Basketball will be dead here
I'm sure I will have to repeat this over the next couple months, but....
if the Tribe could survive 1959-1993 in Cleveland
if the Cavs could survive the Fratello, Wittman, Lucas, and Silas years
then, basketball could and would survive in Cleveland without LeBron James. it would not THRIVE as it does today, but it would most definitely survive.
(note: Browns not included because they will seemingly always be #1 in this town and that's not a fair comparison)
When Lebron leaves it will no longer be fashionable to the Yuppies in Cleveland to attend the games. Just like the Indians. When they quit winning. I was at a Indians game during our record setting attendence and heard one Yup say to another that the foul poles were Radio antenas. My point is, once they pull out and regular fans don't feel like dropping two hundred bucks to see a game the place will be deserted.
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j/c
"What can the Cav's do if Lebron leaves?". Answer: Take a page out of the Browns playbook - Punt.
IF he leaves it will set the Cav's back quite a bit. Almost "hometown" hero takes off for greener pastures? What do we have left? Bunch of role players - some of who are way past their prime. Who's going to want to come here to play?
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Nobody is going to want to. I think Excl is on the right track. The only way to get back in the game if he leaves is to tank everything for a year or two and hope you land the next LeBron, Carmello, Durant, whoever... You aren't going to attact that kind of star power via FA, you are going to have to draft it and start from scratch building around it..
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Nobody is going to want to. I think Excl is on the right track. The only way to get back in the game if he leaves is to tank everything for a year or two and hope you land the next LeBron, Carmello, Durant, whoever... You aren't going to attact that kind of star power via FA, you are going to have to draft it and start from scratch building around it..
and my advice would be, if you land that guy, stay down for a little bit more.
durant got westbrook. the cavs screwed themselves by just missing the playoffs and get horrible lottery chances in years 1 and 2 of the lbj era.
stay down.
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
Quote:
Nobody is going to want to. I think Excl is on the right track. The only way to get back in the game if he leaves is to tank everything for a year or two and hope you land the next LeBron, Carmello, Durant, whoever... You aren't going to attact that kind of star power via FA, you are going to have to draft it and start from scratch building around it..
and my advice would be, if you land that guy, stay down for a little bit more.
durant got westbrook. the cavs screwed themselves by just missing the playoffs and get horrible lottery chances in years 1 and 2 of the lbj era.
stay down.
Bingo
I heart winning
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Quote:
Quote:
Nobody is going to want to. I think Excl is on the right track. The only way to get back in the game if he leaves is to tank everything for a year or two and hope you land the next LeBron, Carmello, Durant, whoever... You aren't going to attact that kind of star power via FA, you are going to have to draft it and start from scratch building around it..
and my advice would be, if you land that guy, stay down for a little bit more.
durant got westbrook. the cavs screwed themselves by just missing the playoffs and get horrible lottery chances in years 1 and 2 of the lbj era.
stay down.
Like if the Cavs could have stayed bad enough to secure the top pick in the '04 draft they could have added Dwight Howard to the LeBron pick from the year before? 
yebat' Putin
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Whatever it is, it won't matter.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Nobody is going to want to. I think Excl is on the right track. The only way to get back in the game if he leaves is to tank everything for a year or two and hope you land the next LeBron, Carmello, Durant, whoever... You aren't going to attact that kind of star power via FA, you are going to have to draft it and start from scratch building around it..
and my advice would be, if you land that guy, stay down for a little bit more.
durant got westbrook. the cavs screwed themselves by just missing the playoffs and get horrible lottery chances in years 1 and 2 of the lbj era.
stay down.
Like if the Cavs could have stayed bad enough to secure the top pick in the '04 draft they could have added Dwight Howard to the LeBron pick from the year before?
always possible.
look at the bulls, they got the top pick to get derek rose with horrible lottery chances.
although 2005 is the one i wish we had a higher pick er A pick, considering pax dealt it away for worldbeater jiri welsch
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Paxson set the franchise back more than anything. Luke Jackson in 2004, Jeri Welsch in 2005 and the botched the Carlos Boozer situation.
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Paxson set the franchise back more than anything. Luke Jackson in 2004, Jeri Welsch in 2005 and the botched the Carlos Boozer situation.
makes danny ferry even look that better. that guy came to this team with a complete mess on his hands.
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Quote:
Quote:
Paxson set the franchise back more than anything. Luke Jackson in 2004, Jeri Welsch in 2005 and the botched the Carlos Boozer situation.
makes danny ferry even look that better. that guy came to this team with a complete mess on his hands.
and yet, half the media outlets are decrying what a horrible GM Ferry is on top of everything else. that part amuses me though.
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Play harder than they did last game. They looked hoorid. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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One thing is for certain, I wont be losing any sleep over it.
I was a Cavs fan before LeBron, I'll still be a Cavs fan after LeBron.
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Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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hmm...let me re-evaluate.
My thought though...is that if LeBron goes...theres still hope to succeed and i think it would come in the face of an elite PG...I recognize also that theres size that will need to be replaced.
for big guys:
Tyson Chandler
Yao
Jermaine O'Neal
Amar'e Stoudamire
Greg Oden (restricted in 2011)
Spencer Hawes (restricted in 2011)
Joel Przybilla
Tim Duncan (Early Termination Option in 2011)
Carlos Boozer
David Lee
looking to make trade offers to acquire Hawes or Oden would be very good pick ups...Tyson Chandler is a good guy to have in a rotation. Chandler and Oden would be a good 2 player rotation. With West, Parker, Moon, and Mo Williams' contract expiring...maybe West and Parker for Oden or West for Hawes.
Another idea would be to make a play for Yao...that being said it would have to be ensured that he would be healthy. and who better to challenge Howard than someone bigger?
But the guy I would truly enjoy if the Cavs picked up would be David Lee...perenially underrated and underappreciated he just puts up just shy of 20 and 10. You put him with a good big man and a good guard and your team becomes incredibly solid.
Looking towards the guards...
Joe Johnson (i wouldnt touch because he is not a playoff player and will require too much money for a player who has no playoff pedigree)
Ray Allen
Tony Allen
Ray Felton
Will Bynum
Kyle Lowry
Steve Blake
Derek Fisher (championship pedigree mixed with veteran leadership)
Carlos Arroyo
DWade
Rafer Alston
Luke Ridnour
Michael Redd (I really like his ability, but his recent injury history is concerning)
John Salmons (a highly underrated player that could lessen the scoring burden of others)
Eddie House
Matt Barnes
Roger Mason
looking at that...Matt Barnes, Ray Allen/Michael Redd, Roger Mason...pick up those 3 and you have a very solid guard lineup.
combine that with say Greg Oden (if you think he can stay healthy, but sign Tyson Chandler as insurance) David Lee, and Amar'e or even Chris Bosh...where you can have an all around solid lineup....Possibly if you can also grab a guy like Derek Fisher who has championship pedigree (like Sam Cassell to the Celtics in 07) you can get to the top and really not fall down.
The reason that i think that if Cleveland looked to make a salary dump and start over would be a terrible idea is that youve got no draft picks this year...I looked and both picks have been given away to Washington and Phoenix.
Use free agency to stay relevant.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 Likes: 2 |
if lebron truly takes off, i also wouldn't be surprised if gilbert goes the route of the pistons, instead of building a superstar, getting 5 solid parts.
i would rather just take my chances with the lottery because if you look at the rest of the playoff field, they have lottery type guys. kobe, howard, amare, etc..
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
Don't even know where to start with that breakdown.  For one ... do you understand how the salary cap and free agency works? We could maybe sign one of the guys you mentioned, and after that, we'd have to pray for sign-and-trades that likely wouldn't happen. Greg Oden, Yao Ming, Michael Redd? Is this like the All-Injury team? There's no way we're getting Bosh or Amar'e without Lebron here and no cap space to give them the max. Tyson Chandler and David Lee aren't getting us past the middle of the road teams, let alone the elite teams. The fact that we have no draft picks this year means nothing ... the idea would be to take a salary dump now ... stink next year, and get a good draft pick the following year ... which is pretty much the best way to get top talent in the NBA.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 Likes: 280
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 Likes: 280 |
I see that as the single biggest problem.. with LeBron here, we might be able to get top talent (great support players) at a slight discount because of the chance to win titles, etc... without LeBron I think we will pay a hefty premium because there is ZERO incentive to come to Cleveland.....
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223 |
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
j/c,...Well, I know for a fact they'll have one less fan.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,086
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,086 |
No LBJ = cheap Cavs tickets once again!
Regardless of the performance in the Celtics series, fans will quickly forget come next season.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704 |
Quote:
No LBJ = cheap Cavs tickets once again!
Regardless of the performance in the Celtics series, fans will quickly forget come next season.
The fans won't be here next year.
Cavs fans, for the most part = Cleveland LeBron's fans.
Once LeBron goes, so will the fans.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
Quote:
Once LeBron goes, so will the fans.
And people will see that Dan Gilbert isn't the anti-Larry Dolan they think he is.
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum what can the Cavs do IF LeBron
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