Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,758
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,758
Well, on cleveland.com it's not a message board like here per say, but the comment section below a story. I post on there sometimes and found this very interesting. There are actually 2 stories with one getting direct comments from Cuyahoga County Common Pleas Judge Shirley Strickland Saffold and her daughter. That article is here
*****************************************************************************
Plain Dealer sparks ethical debate by unmasking anonymous Cleveland.com poster
By Henry J. Gomez, The Plain Dealer

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- By unmasking an anonymous poster at its companion Web site, The Plain Dealer finds itself in an ethical quandary, stirring a debate that balances the public's need to know against the privacy concerns of online participants.

On one side are experts who believe the newspaper has violated a trust by exploring and revealing information about a critic. On the other are those, including Plain Dealer Editor Susan Goldberg, who believe that information is too important not to see the light of day.

Until this week, "lawmiss" was known only as one of thousands who, often known only by nicknames, share views on news blogs and stories reported at cleveland.com.

But after investigating a comment directed at the relative of a Plain Dealer reporter, editors learned that lawmiss had the same e-mail address as Cuyahoga County Common Pleas Judge Shirley Strickland Saffold. A closer look revealed that the user had offered opinions on three of Saffold's cases, including the capital murder trial of accused serial killer Anthony Sowell.

When confronted with the newspaper's findings Wednesday, the judge denied responsibility for the posts. Her daughter, Sydney Saffold, came forward later to accept responsibility for posting "quite a few, more than five" of more than 80 lawmiss comments.

Goldberg, who has written about the pros and cons of anonymous comments, said the issues raised by lawmiss' comments outweigh any breach of trust that comes from exposing the poster.


Goldberg noted that comments made were not about "trifling" matters. The posts related directly to two death-penalty cases involving Saffold as judge -- Sowell's and the 2008 murder trial of former Cleveland firefighter Terrance Hough Jr. -- as well as a recent vehicular homicide case.

"You can argue we should not have uncovered lawmiss' identity," Goldberg said in an interview, "and maybe we shouldn't have. But once we did, I don't know how you can pretend you don't know that information. How can you put that genie back in the bottle?

"What if it ever came to light that someone using the e-mail of a sitting judge made comments on a public Web site about cases she was hearing, and we did not disclose it? These are capital crimes and life-and-death issues for these defendants. I think not to disclose this would be a violation of our mission and damaging to our credibility as a news organization."

Goldberg said she learned of Saffold's connection to the cleveland.com posts Monday and, after consulting with other editors and the company's lawyers, decided to reveal the judge's ties.

The newspaper traced the identity of lawmiss after someone using that moniker left a comment about the mental state of a relative of reporter Jim Ewinger. The comment was removed for violating cleveland.com's community rules, which do not allow personal attacks.

Users are required to register with a valid e-mail address before posting at cleveland.com. Upon learning of the Ewinger issue Monday, an online editor looked up lawmiss' e-mail address, which like all others, is accessible through software used to post stories to the Web site.

Monitoring e-mail addresses is not a common practice, Goldberg said. But the information has been accessed before by online editors, who have banned people for violating the community rules or the site's user agreement. Both were written by Advance Internet, a separate entity run by The Plain Dealer's parent company.

How the newspaper obtained the information troubles Bob Steele, a journalism ethicist with the Poynter Institute and DePauw University. Steele questioned whether editors were justified in exploring lawmiss' identity as there was "no immediate, profound danger to someone" and "no clear suspicion of judicial misconduct" at the time the investigation began.

"It does raise the question of the wisdom and fairness of the newspaper using the registration system of the Web site for reporting purposes," Steele said in a telephone interview.

The newspaper's decisions could have a chilling effect on conversation at cleveland.com, said Rebecca Jeschke of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, an online privacy rights group.

"I would think twice before participating in a message board where I had to give my e-mail address knowing that management could access it at any time," Jeschke said. "It seems appropriate in this case, but ... it's hard not to imagine scenarios where it's abused."

John Hassell, vice president of content at Advance Internet, said company officials are taking steps to block reporters and editors from seeing e-mail addresses in the future.

"We take privacy very seriously and believe our users should feel confident that private information shared with us will not be made public," said Hassell in a statement.

Other news organizations already hide such information from their editorial staff, said Steve Yelvington, a strategist for Morris Digital Works, the online division of Morris Communications. The company runs 13 daily newspapers in Florida, Georgia, Texas and other states.

"We are careful to firewall our business records from our journalists," Yelvington said.

In The Plain Dealer's case, "there's a legitimate question about what your user community expects of you," he added. "There's potential for people to feel their trust has been violated."

Those are concerns Goldberg said she shares. In a May 2009 column that appeared in the newspaper, she encouraged "freewheeling conversation" on blogs and stories at cleveland.com. She also wrote that she was not in favor of requiring posters to use their real names because she feared that, given the culture of the Internet, doing so would stifle online conversation.

Some people agree with Goldberg's decision.

"Ordinarily, if you encourage anonymity, it should remain that way," said Lewis Katz, a Case Western Reserve University law professor. "But if a person is abusing the process, and the person's identity is available, I don't see why [the newspaper] should not identify the person."

The Saffold connection made the identity even more relevant to the public, Katz added.

"I think it is part of the people's right to know," he said, echoing Goldberg. "It raises the possibilities of improper comments by [Judge Saffold] or someone affiliated with her certainly using her e-mail address making these comments. And I think that reflects on the judge."

Though he disagrees with the newspaper's methods in discovering lawmiss' identity, Steele, the journalism ethics expert, said he also understands the reason for reporting it.

"Should The Plain Dealer be shining light on this? I say yes," Steele said. "I don't think The Plain Dealer could walk away from the puzzle with so many pieces turned face up right now."
Source
I thought this was very interesting.


Our honor defend, we will fight to the end, for OHIO! GO BUCKS!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,154
Likes: 838
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,154
Likes: 838
Saffol was wrong (well, her daughter was), but so is the PD - big time. Actually, the only thing I see that Saffold really did wrong was to bother registering over there.


If you have an issue like that, you get the facts. You do NOT breach privacy and then try to figure it out.
You certainly do not dig for identity, and mere reporters should not have access to any of that information.

The Plain Dealer is flat out wrong for having looked it up, they are doubly wrong for publishing the info, and while I'm happy they told on themselves in that posting, they are mega-wrong for distributing the info yet again - especially after the fact that they learned that there was no wrong doing aside from violation of some community rules - but, Saffold made comments against a journalist and their family, so they're going to make noisy hell about it.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349
Hey welcome back Lee,good to see you,how are the babys? I forget,you have two now,or is it three?


KING


You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,485
Likes: 957
B
Legend
Offline
Legend
B
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,485
Likes: 957
Quote:

Hey welcome back Lee,good to see you,how are the babys? I forget,you have two now,or is it three?


KING





He's been gone so long, it might be 4!


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong




[Linked Image]
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 895
Likes: 51
L
All Pro
Offline
All Pro
L
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 895
Likes: 51
Odd that I just read an article that the PD posted saying one of it's writers has a warrant out for his arrest for protecting his sources. Sounds like the PD is playing it both ways...shame shame.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,749
Likes: 305
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,749
Likes: 305
Quote:

Odd that I just read an article that the PD posted saying one of it's writers has a warrant out for his arrest for protecting his sources. Sounds like the PD is playing it both ways...shame shame.




Exactly. They refuse to real information they receive from unnamed sources but they have no qualms revealing the identity of someone who posts on their website anonymously. I do realize that there is a difference but it still looks like they are more worried about protecting their own.


#gmstrong
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465
L
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
L
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465
Lets see if the PD is ready to start giving up sources.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,827
Likes: 158
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,827
Likes: 158
Quote:

Odd that I just read an article that the PD posted saying one of it's writers has a warrant out for his arrest for protecting his sources. Sounds like the PD is playing it both ways...shame shame.




That a dang shame. sounds like they want it both ways.. DOn't want to give up sources but are willing to out posters to thier website...

Ya know, I think this is sour grapes over that reporter......


#GMSTRONG

“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan

"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,263
Likes: 342
L
Legend
Offline
Legend
L
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,263
Likes: 342
If they do they're credibility is dead. I'd be shocked.

I've always had strong feelings against legit news sites letting people post anonymously, especially in cases where inflammatory/possibly libelous comments are allowed.
But news sites want internet traffic and figure this is a way to generate and maintain it.

A letter to the editor, which can (and should be) verified is one thing, but letting a poster slag someone else in anonimity is not something I approve of (in the case of a legit news org. - this MB is obviously different).


[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]

gmstrong

-----------------

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 62
M
Rookie
Offline
Rookie
M
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 62
to make it more interesting...the judge who issued that warrant is none other than the judge whose identity was released by the PD

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,154
Likes: 838
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,154
Likes: 838
lol! Sounds like we've got ourselves a small town peeing match.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,827
Likes: 158
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,827
Likes: 158
LOL Go over to the article on cleveland.com and read the responses from folks,, another thing you will see is several PD Staffers trying their best to justify thier position, it's almost too funny..

As Purp said,, its a peeing contest


#GMSTRONG

“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan

"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,758
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,758
Quote:

Quote:

Hey welcome back Lee,good to see you,how are the babys? I forget,you have two now,or is it three?


KING





He's been gone so long, it might be 4!



Hi guys! I've been reading for a while now b/c I have been on 3rd shift and nobody is ever online when I can post and I sleep usually during the day (except today b/c I had to get my wifes brakes fixed). I am on Facebook all the time and have kept in touch more that way.

And no Peen only 3 kids My wife would shoot me if I shot her again My son Niko is 8 months old now and so adorable. He is so big already it blows my mind. I wish I had some recent pictures to show but I haven't been able to find my camera in some time

And about the article, yes this is the same judge that issued a bench warrant for the PD reporter that released Sowell's psych record which was leaked by another judge. She is also talking about banning the media from covering the trial. The PD has had her in the cross-hairs for a while now.


Our honor defend, we will fight to the end, for OHIO! GO BUCKS!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 895
Likes: 51
L
All Pro
Offline
All Pro
L
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 895
Likes: 51
J/Cing

The PD is looking really bad about now, check out this section of the discussion:

Quote:

Poster says: (From website TOS)
"We take privacy very seriously and believe our users should feel confident that private information shared with us will not be made public."*


*Unless it makes for a good story.




Quote:

PD responds:
From the editors:
(Name redacted), please note that the quote you refer to is from an official of Advance Internet, which has overall responsibility for this Web site. While Advance and The Plain Dealer are ultimately part of the same company, their operations are separate.
John Kroll
Director of Training and Digital Development





Quote:

Second poster responds:

What an extremely chilling statement by Mr. Kroll. In effect, to the uneducated eyes of this humble layperson it reads: "Dear (1st Poster), the terms of service and respect of your privacy are in no way valued by the Plain Dealer. Because this site is run by Advance Internet, and not us we do not have to abide by the statements made by them."




Quote:

From the PD:
From the editors:
No, connect, what the previous comment says is that the specific quote a user referred to came from Advance Internet and not The Plain Dealer. The newspaper's stance on this issue is explained in these stories.
John Kroll
Director of Training and Digital Development





So the PD is putting up a smokescreen saying that the privacy expectation is with Advance Internet and NOT the PD, and the PD was the one who published the information. But apparently thinks nobody will realize that Advance Internet had to violate that privacy to provide the information to the PD for the purpose of publishing.

~These are not the idiots you are looking for. They can go about their business...~

Last edited by LexDawg; 03/26/10 02:49 PM.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
I'm just wondering if the judge ever issued a gag order on those trials she was commenting on?


#GMSTRONG
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,405
I
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
I
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,405
This story is getting more interesting every day...

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/04/cuyahoga_county_judge_shirley.html

CLEVELAND, Ohio --

A Cuyahoga County judge sued The Plain Dealer and affiliated companies Wednesday, claiming that they breached a Web site privacy policy when stories linked an e-mail account used by the judge to a series of online comments related to some of the judge's high-profile cases.

Common Pleas Judge Shirley Strickland Saffold and her daughter, Sydney, seek at least $50 million in damages for what the lawsuit characterizes as a conspiracy to publish confidential information that was used to register a username on cleveland.com, a Web site affiliated with the newspaper.

Both Plain Dealer Editor Susan Goldberg and Saffold's attorney, Brian Spitz, declined to comment on the case Wednesday.

Spitz, in an interview with ABC News, acknowledged for the first time Wednesday the possibility that Saffold posted comments under the moniker "lawmiss," which was set up on cleveland.com through an e-mail account used by the judge. Saffold last month denied leaving any lawmiss comments, and her daughter took responsibility for all of them.

The suit, filed in Cuyahoga County Common Pleas Court, claims that newspaper violated cleveland.com's privacy policy by printing personally identifying information. And the lawsuit claims The Plain Dealer acknowledged that using and publishing registration information breached the users' expectation of privacy.

Cleveland.com's privacy policy was written by Advance Internet, a separate entity affiliated with The Plain Dealer. The privacy policy states, "We may also provide access to our database in order to cooperate with official investigations or legal proceedings, including, for example, in response to subpoenas, search warrants, court orders, or other legal process." The policy goes on to state: "In addition, we reserve the right to use the information we collect about your computer, which may at times be able to identify you, for any lawful business purpose. . ."

The site also reserves "the right to use, transfer, sell, and share aggregated, anonymous data about our users as a group for any business purpose, such as analyzing usage trends and seeking compatible advertisers and partners."

A Plain Dealer online editor looked up lawmiss' e-mail address - which was accessible through software used to post stories to the Web site - after lawmiss posted a comment about the mental state of a Plain Dealer reporter's relative.

The newspaper found the link to an e-mail account used by Saffold and others, and reported for the first time March 26 that more than 80 comments had been made on cleveland.com by lawmiss. Among the postings were comments about cases before Saffold. The judge acknowledged in an interview last month that such comments would have been improper if she had made them.

Goldberg said last month that the issues raised by lawmiss' comments outweighed any privacy interests of the poster. Goldberg noted that comments made were not about trifling matters. The posts related directly to two death-penalty cases involving Saffold as judge -- the 2008 murder trial of former Cleveland firefighter Terrance Hough Jr. and the case of Anthony Sowell, accused of killing 11 women.

"What if it ever came to light that someone using the e-mail of a sitting judge made comments on a public Web site about cases she was hearing, and we did not disclose it?" Goldberg said last month. "These are capital crimes and life-and-death issues for these defendants. I think not to disclose this would be a violation of our mission and damaging to our credibility as a news organization."

The day the story was published, Sowell's lawyer requested that Saffold recuse herself from hearing the Sowell case, arguing that the lawmiss comments showed bias. Saffold has not made a decision.

In the lawsuit filed Wednesday, Spitz argues that the newspaper's online editors looked up the lawmiss user registration information as a vendetta, because of the remark left about a reporter's relative.

"Despite encouraging lively debate and opposing opinions, Defendants used tactics to discourage comments that opposed their editorial viewpoint, including, but not limited to selectively removing opinions that were not favorable to Defendants, and allowing personal attacks against their targets to remain," Spitz writes.

Saffold told the newspaper last month that she had nothing to do with the lawmiss comments.County records show that three of the comments were left at the same time as someone using Saffold's court computer was visiting cleveland.com.

ABC News reported in an online article Wednesday that Spitz said Saffold might have used the lawmiss handle to comment on stories unrelated to her cases, including stories on the Cleveland Browns. Spitz said he is still combing through the comments with his client.

He acknowledges in the suit that the judge and her daughter shared the cleveland.com account. But he argues that the AOL e-mail address linked to the account was created by Saffold's former husband, Oscar, for the whole family to use.

The suit claims the newspaper called upon legal experts and the Ohio Supreme Court's disciplinary counsel to inquire about the ethical implications of Saffold's participation on cleveland.com. And the newspaper gathered all of the comments posted by lawmiss for readers to peruse.

The Plain Dealer's stories about lawmiss have been controversial with many cleveland.com commenters, who believed they were anonymous when posting on the Web site. Cleveland.com is affiliated with Advance Internet, which now blocks the newspaper from access to the e-mail addresses of commenters.

Even as the lawsuit criticizes the newspaper for revealing the e-mail address linked to lawmiss, it says it expects the defendants to identify all anonymous commenters who criticized Saffold on cleveland.com. The suit lists those commenters as John Does and says they also are defendants.

Spitz, whose law firm is based in South Euclid, filed at least one similar lawsuit in the past, claiming the breach of an online user privacy policy. In July 2008, he represented an elder-care nurse, who said her life had been destroyed after the proprietor of celebrity gossip Web site perezhilton.com divulged her personal and contact information.

Diane Wargo sued Mario Armando Lavandeira, Jr. in U.S. District Court in Cleveland for $25 million, arguing that Lavandeira posted her full name, email address and the name of her employer, and encouraged readers to harass Wargo for disagreeing with his opinions.

The case was dismissed for lack of jurisdiction.


"My signature line goes here."
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349
I dont think the judge is actually expecting to get $50 mill from the PD,she actually really most likely isnt trying tog et any money,but she is trying to expose the PD for their behaviors.


KING


You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,141
Likes: 263
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,141
Likes: 263
Interesting story, I know Brian Spitz, he is a pretty cool guy.


Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
A
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
A
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
j/c...

Sounds to me like someone thought that online Internet posting is anonymous. Here's a tip...it's not. Someone can always figure out who you are, and its generally not the type of situation where fortune favors the bold.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,125
Likes: 1048
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,125
Likes: 1048
Quote:

I've always had strong feelings against legit news sites letting people post anonymously, especially in cases where inflammatory/possibly libelous comments are allowed.





I totally agree. If you don't have the guts to put your name behind your comments, you shouldn't be making them.....and the media shouldn't be airing them.


And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir

#GMSTRONG
DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum PD Sparks Ethical Debate By Unmasking Anonymous MB Poster

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5