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if you remember, this was the story on how the entire teacher base at a school was fired due to poor performance and union greed. Quote:
Central Falls, Rhode Island (CNN) -- Superintendent Frances Gallo combed the classrooms of embattled Central Falls High School. Teachers and students were gone for the day. Gallo was hunting for a particular item: an effigy of President Obama.
She hoped the rumor of its existence wasn't true.
Gallo had fired all the high school teachers just a month earlier, igniting an educational maelstrom in Rhode Island's smallest and poorest community while winning praise from the president.
The teachers union lampooned her; hate mail flooded her inbox. For weeks, she'd prayed every morning for the soul of the man who wrote: "I wish cancer on your children and their children and that you live long enough to see them die."
It was one thing to take barbs from opponents -- another thing altogether if the division was infecting classrooms. Teachers assured the superintendent that the school battle wasn't seeping into lesson plans. So, when CNN asked her about the rumor of the effigy, Gallo took it upon herself to get to the bottom of it.
She entered the school in the dark of night Monday. She started her room-to-room sweep on the first floor. The first was clean, then the next and the next.
Yet newspaper headlines about the controversy, Gallo says, were plastered nearly everywhere. What are the teachers doing? she thought.
Most were local papers with banner headlines: "Teachers fired." Others highlighted Obama's support of Gallo, an endorsement that turned an already tense situation into a firestorm.
In this Democratic stronghold, teachers wondered: How could the president they supported turn his back on them? Some peeled Obama bumper stickers off their cars.
Gallo knew Obama's endorsement would create further uproar. She just didn't know how bad it would get.
She continued making her way through the school, clearing the first two floors. She was disheartened by the newspaper postings but relieved she hadn't found the offensive item.
One floor to go.
She climbed the steps and entered a classroom.
There it was.
"You couldn't miss it."
An Obama doll, about a foot tall, hung by its feet from the white board; the doll held a sign that said, "Fire Central Falls teachers," she says.
Recounting her discovery later, Gallo broke down in tears. A flood of emotions poured out, the raw toll of all that has transpired in recent weeks.
When she confronted the teacher responsible, she says he responded that it was "a joke to him."
The teachers, she says, have "no idea the harm they're doing." She thought of Obama's words: Students get only one shot at an education.
"I've tried to explain this over and over again: The children here are very disturbed by the actions of their teachers, and they're torn apart because they also love them."
It's lonely being a voice for change.
'Miracles Happen Everyday'
Central Falls is a town of more than 18,000 people -- most of them Hispanic immigrants -- living within 1.5 square miles. "Ripley's Believe It Or Not" once dubbed the town, about 10 minutes from Providence, the most densely populated in the nation.
The school is an ornate brick building with decorative columns. A housing project backs up to the campus. A marquee outside the school reads: "Daily reflection on your efforts and outcomes will improve both."
Just a few blocks away, Gallo works from a modest building that looks as if it were once a home. A wall in the superintendent's office is decorated with Central Falls High T-shirts. "Don't talk trash ... recycle it," one says.
Above her door is a sign: "Miracles Happen Everyday." It keeps her grounded, she says, reminding her that "my kids are going to learn."
Gallo arrived in Central Falls in 2007, knowing a tough job loomed ahead. The school had already been designated one of the lowest-performing in Rhode Island.
"I have never once looked away from a challenge or put children second," she says.
The school has been failing for the last seven years. Its graduation rate stands around 48 percent. Math proficiency is a paltry 7 percent. Reading scores have improved by 21 percentage points in the last two years, but still lag far behind with 55 percent able to read at grade level, according to school officials.
Like the town's population, most of the 800 students at Central Falls are Hispanic. For many, English is a second language. Teachers say the population is so transient, the statistics are skewed: Dozens of students enroll as freshmen but move before their senior year. Those students get counted in the low graduation rate.
It's a difficult environment in which to teach, teachers say, and they do their best. Gallo says union contracts, or "scar tissue," are so thick and dense that instituting reform is difficult.
Gallo says she didn't want to take the drastic measure of firing all 93 teachers, support staff and administrators. Yet her decision to do so instantly made her one of the boldest school administrators in the nation -- loathed and loved, reviled and applauded.
"I never anticipated this. Never," Gallo says.
On the wall behind her desk is a framed quotation: "Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, 'I will try again tomorrow.' "
How the fight brewed
Maybe it's her grandma looks -- gray hair, rimmed glasses, soft-spoken voice. Whatever the reason, it seems the teachers union underestimated this superintendent.
A lifelong Rhode Islander, Gallo began her career in education 38 years ago, first as a teacher before moving into school administration as a principal in 1984.
On tough days, she wears an eagle broach. A child at her first school gave it to her as a reminder that "eagles fly high and soar on the thermals."
She's been wearing it a lot lately.
The raw-knuckled fight playing out here intensified in January when Rhode Island became the first state seeking an injection of federal funds to transform low-performing schools.
Rhode Island's education commissioner identified six schools, including Central Falls High, as the worst in the state. The troubled schools stood to gain $12.4 million -- including a one-time payment of $10.5 million from federal stimulus funds. The state decides how to allocate the funds.
The deadline to apply was February 22. Administrators scrambled. To qualify for the money under strict federal guidelines, the schools had four options:
• Close altogether
• Restart as a charter school or under a new management organization
• Undergo a "transformation" model in which the principal is replaced and all aspects of the school's performance are evaluated
• Take a more drastic "turnaround" approach, in which all staff are fired with the possibility that up to 50 percent can be rehired.
In Central Falls, Gallo ruled out the first two choices. She initially sought the transformation model, and the union agreed in principle.
Gallo laid out her tools of transformation: Teachers would work a longer school day of seven hours and tutor students weekly for one hour outside school time. They would have lunch with students often, meet for 90 minutes every week to discuss education and set aside two weeks during summer break for paid professional development.
For some of the extra work, Gallo would pay $30 an hour from the federal grant. The teachers union pushed for more: $90 an hour.
Talks broke down. Gallo turned to the nuclear option.
"Central Falls is a test case for the rest of the United States. I don't think anyone was prepared for this kind of fallout," said Marcia Reback, president of the Rhode Island Federation of Teachers.
She puts the blame solely on the "take it or leave it" attitude of the superintendent. She says that the union was never allowed to offer any alternatives to transform the school and that teachers want school programs revamped.
Before the union knew it, the superintendent recommended the firing of all teachers. The recommendation was affirmed 5-2 by the school board. By February 23, termination notices had gone out.
"I felt I had no choice," Gallo says. "And I continue to believe that is the right decision."
The firings go into effect in June. No more than 50 percent of the current staff can be rehired. Teachers will learn their fate in late May.
Anxiety and supercharged tensions ripple through this small town. How could they not? Educators' livelihoods are at stake.
The union is seeking a return to the bargaining table. Reback suggested the only way for Obama to save face is to help bring all parties together in a mediated settlement.
Even as the president applauded Central Falls' reform, he conceded that firing teachers is the least preferred measure. "Replacing school staff should only be done as a last resort," he said at an education event on March 1.
"But if a school continues to fail its students year after year, if it doesn't show signs of improvement, then there's got to be a sense of accountability," Obama said. "And that's what happened in Rhode Island."
Says Reback: "The president was badly briefed."
The Warrior students
Students continue to attend class in this heated environment. Reback says that a toxic atmosphere doesn't exist -- that the teachers are professionals who stick to their lesson plans.
The union chief also has received hate mail. Reback says her favorite was plain and simple: "You suck."
About 70 graduates recently descended on the campus. They blasted Obama for supporting the superintendent and heaped praise on their teachers for influencing their lives.
Away from the scene, current students described an emotionally charged atmosphere. They care deeply about their teachers and don't understand why everyone was fired. Some teachers, they say, have blamed the students in class by asking why the teens didn't study more. Other teachers have moved forward, saying the whole thing is above their heads, according to students.
"I think it's the teachers' fault and the students' fault. It's the teachers' fault for giving up on us, but it's also the students' fault for not trying," said one student, whom CNN is not naming because of the possibility of retribution. "A teacher can't make a student study."
The students are aware that their school has become a national pariah, and they don't like it. Their mascot is the Warrior, a symbol for those braving the chaos.
They also want to help shape the new school. They say their input has been neglected in the fracas. It's an idea Gallo welcomes.
Gallo has played all the roles in her life: student, teacher, principal and parent. Her three children have grown up to be teachers themselves. One faces an uncertain job future in Massachusetts, where a similar battle is under way.
Years ago, when her two sons played football, Gallo couldn't bear the insults hurled by the crowd at the players. So she joined the officiating crew. Her job was to help move the first down chains. It was a way to escape the nastiness in the stands and serve a positive role while watching her team move toward its goal.
Now, she's the target of the nasty comments. The pressure to succeed has grown exponentially since she decided to fire staff.
"It's been an amazing life since that moment," she says.
The game has changed. She's front and center. Will she be able to move the chains forward?
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/03/17/rhode.island.school.reform/index.html?hpt=C1
i understand this board is very pro-teacher, some people have significant others who are teachers, others are very active in their kids' education but what really jumps out is the overall greed that the union took on when having a school that was so performing so poorly, in particular, wanting $90 an hour for "going the extra mile" when they already offered $30.
one comment that jumps out, if true,:
Quote:
I have worked as a Rhode Island public school teacher for almost 16 years. The work is hard, summer breaks have been reduced to two and one half months, and I only make $88,000 per year. Next year I turn 48 so I will be eligible to retire....and I assure you I will.
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Legend
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Here's my opinion on the whole teachers thing ... even though some will care, and others will villify me for having such an opinion ......
However ... while I agree that parents must be involved in the education process ..... teachers get paid to teach children. They are paid to educate.
If they fail to do so, then they have not done their jobs. Why continue to employ people who are not doing what they were hired to do?
It's harsh ... and there may be extenuating circumstances ..... but there are in other jobs as well. People are paid to accomplish a task or goal ..... and failing to do so can lead to losing one's job. I see no reason why teaching should somehow be treated differently.
Further, I think that testing should be mandatory and continuing. People complain about teachers "teaching to the test" ..... but if we don't test a child's knowledge, how do we know whether or not he is learning what he is supposed to have been taught? How do we know if the educators are doing their jobs? Teaching to the test? Life if the ultimate test, and when kids get out into the real world without being able to read instructions, without being able to construct a coherent sentence, who cannot do the simplest of math problems, and so on .... then whose problem is it? Life is the test, and the intermediate tests along the way demonstrate whether or not the children are actually being taught what they need to know to become functioning members of society. Failing this, they are likely to become a drain on society instead.
Tenure should also be abolished. Teachers should be expected to be effective, and not guaranteed employment simply because they have been around for a while.
I just think that it's time we expect more out of our schools. Teachers should be paid for high performance, but that pay should come with effectiveness standards. (Just like every other job) I can't go to work and lose money for my employer month after month and expect to remain employed. I cannot have sales decline and expect continued employment and raises. It doesn't work that way in the real world, and far too often it seems like the real world should have no place in education.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
If they fail to do so, then they have not done their jobs. Why continue to employ people who are not doing what they were hired to do?
It's harsh ... and there may be extenuating circumstances
I don't find it harsh at all.. in any other walk of life, sales, engineering, medicine, whatever.. if you don't do your job, if you fail to achieve the minimum goals set forth, you get fired..
That's what happens..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
The work is hard, summer breaks have been reduced to two and one half months, and I only make $88,000 per year
 The horror !
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don't worry, i'm fully with you on that. further, you'd be surprised that i speak with friends who work/worked for Teach For America about this very topic and they agree. it's ideal that parents know something and encourage studying but it is up to the students to know more. you'll never meet a parent who wants their child to fail. the teacher needs to work at it, and like the anonymous student says, shouldn't give up on them.
i think the greater details that jump out is that the firing of the teachers was not a first choice. there were 4 and it was ultimately the last and only because the union became unreasonable on what they asked for in the preferred option. when the scores are as bad as they were in this story, the teachers were not doing their jobs.
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As I see it, there are three major problems with teaching in America:
Problems:
1.) There is little or no incentive for teachers to go above and beyond - many due because they love their jobs, but there is no way to reward these teachers, or to eliminate those who aim to do the bare minimum
2.) Teachers are locked into particular positions - It's almost impossible for teachers with more than a few years of experience to get a job at a new location. This is due to the fact that the union has locked in experienced based pay scales, and most schools don't want to pay for more expensive teachers.
3.) Teaching pay is not competitive with other fields available to college graduates, and thus the profession does not attract the best/brightest, but instead those who want easy/stable employment.
Here's my plan for reforming teaching as an institution:
1.) Eliminate tenure - teacher's no longer have any long term goals (i.e. research interest, long term student mentoring) which justify it. In the university system, it's very rare for a professor to obtain tenure before the age of 40 (and after about 20 years of continuous monitoring of their productivity)....teachers tend to get tenure by the age of about 28.
2.) Increase starting pay, and decrease experienced based pay - The starting pay for teachers should be around $45k, to make it competitive with other starting jobs for college graduates. But older teacher does not mean better teacher, so automatic pay increases should be more mild, maybe up to $65k at the top rung.
3.) Increase performance based pay - This can be based on administrative reviews, test scores, and at higher levels, student reviews - and should constitute about 20% of a teacher's pay, above the base salaries listed above - allowing high performing teachers to quickly make all the money that they do today, and possibly more.
4.) Make retirement pay constant - Based on a 30 years of work, you gain 3.33% of your retirement plan after every year that you work. Which you can then collect either after 30 years, or after you turn 60.
Goals
The goals of the plan are twofold:
1.) Allow districts to fire or decrease the pay of poorly performing teachers, while properly funding the teachers that go above and beyond
2.) Make firing not destructive to the teacher's career - allow teacher mobility after being fired, as well as allow teachers to find positions that match their talent and skill.
Rules 2 and 4 limit the incentives for schools to fire teachers for strictly pay reasons - they have very little to gain by subbing in a less experienced teacher. Rules 1 and 3 help districts to obtain better talent for the money they are spending.
This plan acts to increase competition, which will help bring the teacher market back into equilibrium, and create better teachers in the field overall
~Lyuokdea
Last edited by Lyuokdea; 03/18/10 08:05 PM.
~Lyuokdea
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none of you have absolutely any idea what. happens in a classroom. teachers are expected to turn complete idiots into brain surgeons. Expected to motivate the completely unmotivated. Expected to discipline the completely undisciplined. and not given the means to do any of the above,. If you all think it's so easy to do, then you should do it 
Last edited by Line Judge; 03/18/10 08:12 PM.
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That is a fantastic plan that would solve many of the problems....but I guarantee the teachers' unions will have on part of it. That teacher with the 88k salary that's ready to retire because her summer vacation was cut to 10 weeks (I don't believe she's counting in the Christmas and Spring breaks) is a perfect example of what the unions have created. (I am not anti-union, just anti-bad union).
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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l there is no accountability for parents and students in your "plan' whatsoever.
Why is that?
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Quote:
Quote:
If they fail to do so, then they have not done their jobs. Why continue to employ people who are not doing what they were hired to do?
It's harsh ... and there may be extenuating circumstances
I don't find it harsh at all.. in any other walk of life, sales, engineering, medicine, whatever.. if you don't do your job, if you fail to achieve the minimum goals set forth, you get fired..
That's what happens..
if a doctor's patient dies b/c he eats fried food and smokes, then the Dr. should be fired,right?
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Quote:
l there is no accountability for parents and students in your "plan' whatsoever.
Why is that?
Because it was a plan about teacher hirings/salaries???
Quote:
As I see it, there are three major problems with teaching in America:
note the word 'teaching" rather than "education" or "learning"
~Lyuokdea
Last edited by Lyuokdea; 03/18/10 08:27 PM.
~Lyuokdea
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Quote:
That is a fantastic plan that would solve many of the problems....but I guarantee the teachers' unions will have on part of it. That teacher with the 88k salary that's ready to retire because her summer vacation was cut to 10 weeks (I don't believe she's counting in the Christmas and Spring breaks) is a perfect example of what the unions have created. (I am not anti-union, just anti-bad union).
probably .... but it's not like there's nothing in there for the teachers either - overall the pay should stay about constant, and it greatly improves the flexibility of teachers to move from district to district
~Lyuokdea
~Lyuokdea
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Quote:
teachers are expected to turn complete idiots into brain surgeons.
I agree....you can't teach someone that is incapable of learning.
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Expected to motivate the completely unmotivated.
Why not? I've had teachers that motivated me, and I've had teachers that just went through the motions. They should have the skill determination to motivate their students.
I'm too far removed to know what options for discipline are available these days. I do know that my cousin teaches in an inner city middle school and has resources available to deal with problem children. I do know that getting parents involved is damn near impossible for her in most cases.
If these teachers think it's so hopeless, maybe they should find another profession rather than just show up for a paycheck.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
none of you have absolutely any idea what. happens in a classroom.
teachers are expected to turn complete idiots into brain surgeons.
Expected to motivate the completely unmotivated.
Expected to discipline the completely undisciplined.
and not given the means to do any of the above,.
If you all think it's so easy to do, then you should do it
OK, so what is your solution to situations where students do not learn enough to pass really basic proficiency tests?
What do you feel we should do in school districts where 50%+ of students fail and drop out of school?
How does accountability on the teachers' part play into this equation?
Or, should we ust abandon entire inner city areas, deeming them unfit and incapable of learning, and creating a self fulfilling prophesy where entire regions are lost forever?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I have come to the conclusion a good portion of the kids are stupid and come from stupid parents.
Try teaching a rock to do anything but sit there.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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All Pro
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Stupid people are outbreeding the smart ones (IMO  ) That's for sure. but generally it's economic and social issues that are affecting the worst schools. I don't think it's b/c the teachers were bad or unmotivated. I think that the Superintendent should fire herself as well to be "fair" about the whole thing. See how she likes it.
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i won't pretend to know but at the same time, some of my best friends are or have worked for teach for america. they've done by far the most difficult teaching in the most difficult areas and in talking to them, about this very subject, they all blamed the teachers. to simplify the stance, no parent wants their kids to fail but when there isn't the structure at home, it's up the teacher to help them learn. it's not up to the teacher to decide if someone is stupid because anyone can learn. it's a matter of reaching them. when i hear of how hostile the environment they work in at the beginning is, and how hard they have to work every night, and then to hear how much progress is made by the end of a semester or year, in some of the most ignorant, rural areas of america, where kids in high school barely could do simple math and end up learning calculus, i know it can be done. some people aren't meant to be teachers and it sounds like some of those teachers were enjoying the free ride.
no one said it was easy. this is by far a very difficult issue in the states. we should help the educators.
for this example, though, i do blame the teachers. to say their numbers justified what they asked for is beyond appalling.
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Way back when, about around the first Gulf War, Bush was gearing up for Clinton, Perot was talking about people putting him on the ballot . . . there was an article that talked about how Capitalism beat Communism but Honda beat Buick. The top selling t-shirt in Japan at the time stated on the front, #1. In America, the top selling t-shirt was a Bart Simpson "Born Loser." (P.J. O'Rourke was the writer if I am not mistaken)
We have a culture that rewards stupidity. It's cool to be dumb.
As for the plight of teachers, I sympathize, but get over it. You have a job and being asked to do a little more for what they get paid is not unreasonable.
If you really want to start reforming education, cut out the summer breaks. Go year round like all the other countries.
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got news for the teachers ...
IF your 7th grade student can't read well... blame your 1st-6th grade co workers.
here is another thing... I have a job that if I don't produce I get let go. I could never be late once never be disrepectful or do anything out of line.However if I don't bring in the company money... I'm gone.
I think everyone should be on that same policy. There should be no job security in America with anything. I think it should be easier to fire people rather than more difficult.
Stop slacking and figure out a way to do your job. The rest of us non union workers have to.
ps I hate a teacher who complains about how hard they work. guess what... I work 8- 5 spend time with my son and do more work till i pass out at home too. However, I never get a vacation. So kma about those 13-14 weeks or almost 1/3 of the year on vacation a year. I get 5 days.
stop teaching myson the woe is me attitude... Life sucks- get a helmet.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Quote:
IF your 7th grade student can't read well... blame your 1st-6th grade co workers.
sort of... if your child is in the 7th grade and can't read and you want to blame somebody..... look in the mirror.
Just like with everything else in America it is NOT the state responsibility to educate your child, the way it is set up the state has the responsibility to provide the opportunity for your child to get an education... they have no responsibility to make them take it.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Quote:
IF your 7th grade student can't read well... blame your 1st-6th grade co workers.
sort of... if your child is in the 7th grade and can't read and you want to blame somebody..... look in the mirror.
I think he was speaking from the teachers point of view wondering why the 7th grader can't read. 
Quote:
Stop slacking and figure out a way to do your job. The rest of us non union workers have to.
I was watching Ultimate Factories last night on TV, they did on at Lamborghini, Porsche and the 2010 Camaro factories.
At the Lam and Porsche factories, the people always were busy doing something, in the Camaro factory there were always shots of guys standing there with a wrench in hand waiting, or one particular scene where the stamped door pieces are coming out of the die, and there is 6 guys standing there to take these things off the belt and put them on a cart and not one of them is doing a damn thing. Ahh, American Unions at their best.
Last edited by FloridaFan; 03/19/10 08:39 AM.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
Quote:
IF your 7th grade student can't read well... blame your 1st-6th grade co workers.
sort of... if your child is in the 7th grade and can't read and you want to blame somebody..... look in the mirror.
Just like with everything else in America it is NOT the state responsibility to educate your child, the way it is set up the state has the responsibility to provide the opportunity for your child to get an education... they have no responsibility to make them take it.
Assuming that's true, then why do we have to send our kids to school at all, and pay the associated property taxes ?  
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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IF your 7th grade student can't read well... blame your 1st-6th grade co workers.
sort of... if your child is in the 7th grade and can't read and you want to blame somebody..... look in the mirror.
Just like with everything else in America it is NOT the state responsibility to educate your child, the way it is set up the state has the responsibility to provide the opportunity for your child to get an education... they have no responsibility to make them take it.
really? why the heck do I pay all these salaries and high taxes? They should do away with public schools if the schools cannot prepare my son for life. It is absolutely the school and teachers fault.
side note*** I do spend time with my son reading and spelling every single night I have him.****
If I pay for a private school is it the private's schools responsibility to teach and educate the child?
What about if a contractor that I hire doesn't install my windows properly... should I loook in the mirror or make them fix it?
what about my doctor? if he doesn't install a stint properly should I look in the mirror?
What about the roads the cities provide? do I blame myself because there is a pothole or do i call and say hey... fix this.
It is very much the teachers responsibilty to make sure every child is educated.
I think the teachers are lazy and taking the easy way out and saying... well, it's the parents fault.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
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I think the teachers are lazy and taking the easy way out and saying... well, it's the parents fault.
you can't completely blame either side. it is just important to acknowledge there are two sides to it though.
my sister worked as a teacher for Cleveland Public Schools as a HS Biology teacher for 5 years.
she was so burnt out by spending all of her free time tutoring kids and having them not show up to those sessions when they were actually making progress and having parents not care when she tried to contact them, et cetera that she quit teaching entirely.
i am sure just as many people can provide examples of a parent doing what they can but being undercut by a lazy or incompetent teacher.
the fact of the matter is that it is the teachers responsibility to provide the child with the tools and material for learning and to some extent the motivation for it (the really good ones can inspire). but, it is the parent's responsibility to provide most of the motivation and the understanding how the importance of learning.
if you are missing either side, then it makes the other's job almost impossible.
(this message was brought to you by no_logo_required's search for a better educational system)
#gmstrong
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Well said.
And to those using the I'd be fired if I didn't do my job argument...what if you were the only person out of 23 that cared at your job? I would think it would make it difficult to be good at it.
#gmstrong
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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People who say that any teacher who has kids that aren't learning isn't doing their job and needs to be fired are ignorant. They obviously haven't stepped foot into a public school classroom lately; you can't get some rope and tie kids to a chair and tape their eyelids open until they learn. For a lot of kids out there that is what it would take. As far as this particular situation is concerned, especially after more info comes out, it looks like the teachers were mostly lazy and incompetent. You can't lump all teachers who have kids who are failing into the same category though. You can't measure results the same way you would do a plumber or a mechanic or even my job in a lab for example. The plumber isn't dealing with pipes who don't show up to the bath tub, the mechanic doesn't have cars who refuse to open the hood no matter how many times he presses the hood release (well unless he is working on one of my work beaters  ). My samples aren't talking back to me when I try to test them and I surely don't have the threat of their angry parent raising a stink that gets me in trouble if I try to discipline it or get it to stop disrupting my other samples. You CANNOT compare teaching to other occupations cut and dry like that. Thats just beyond stupid and out of touch with the reality of the situation they are in.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,428 |
Not to be rude .... but is a teacher who cannot get children to listen and learn doing his/her job?
I'm not trying to be ignorant here ... but teachers are paid to teach. If they do not teach .. for whatever reason .. are they doing the job they were hired to do?
If we do not expect results from our teachers, then how do you judge which teachers are effective teachers, and which ones are just showing up and going through the motions? Besides results, what other criteria can you use?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Feb 2007
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1st String
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1st String
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 402 |
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Not to be rude .... but is a teacher who cannot get children to listen and learn doing his/her job?
I'm not trying to be ignorant here ... but teachers are paid to teach. If they do not teach .. for whatever reason .. are they doing the job they were hired to do?
If we do not expect results from our teachers, then how do you judge which teachers are effective teachers, and which ones are just showing up and going through the motions? Besides results, what other criteria can you use?
I am a teacher. If a student is not learning it cannot be completely put on the teacher. I teach math, there is a lot of homework to make sure the students are keeping up with the information. If the homework is not completed, the students grade falls. The parent comes in and complains that I am doing a poor job.
How do I force the kid to complete the homework?
I can cut class short and give the students class time to complete the work. The problem with that is there are certain standards a teacher must keep to and if all the information is not gone over the teacher gets in trouble.
I could assign less homework and hope the students retain the information well enough to continue to build their knowledge base.
It is not as easy of a fix as many think it is.
I can say that the school I teach at is passing the standardized tests at 87%...but I guess I still suck at teaching because 13% can't seem to get it right
I know this school is concerning because of the drastically low numbers...but for anyone to say that the pay scale being low and people wanting summers off and job security as being the reason someone becomes a teacher, the best and brightest are not becoming teachers is very offensive to me (not directed at you YTown). I work well past the 7 - 3 schedule. I try to give the students the best education I can possibly give them. This school was obviously run by some very ignorant administrators and someone finally did something about it.
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All Pro
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All Pro
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Great post. 
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Great post PA. Teaching is, no doubt, a very difficult job, especially with so many not caring about their schoolwork. Keep up the good work bud.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Not to be rude .... but is a teacher who cannot get children to listen and learn doing his/her job?
There are some kids who just do not want to be at school and refuse to cooperate with any of the teachers or staff under any circumstance. There's always kids like that in every class, at least in the general classes. The Honors and AP classes - at my school at least and I am assuming elsewhere as well - had kids that actually wanted to be there and learn. There is a huge correlation between a teachers effectiveness and the kid wanting to be there. There is also a correlation between a teachers ineffectiveness and the kid not wanting to learn anything.
Yeah, there are bad teachers out there just as everyone knows someone at their job who they can't figure out how they are still employed, but most of the problem with kids not learning is from parenting - or lack there of. Even kids who weren't born with much smarts will succeed in school as long as they care about being there and trying. And that comes from home.
I've seen all this first hand and its the reason I changed my mind about being a teacher. I wouldn't make it very long before I punched some kids parent in the eye for being a worthless piece of crap who taught their kid to be just as worthless as they are.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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I remember having a teacher that made us sing the alma mater everyday at the beginning of class. After that we would delve into American History-----then we would pause to do the cotton pickin' song.
He had made up a dance that we all had to do as we sang along with Creedence Clearwater Revivals song called Cotton fields. He had it on vinyl and played it everyday and we did the dance and sang along.
He also loved "Free Bird" and often Cranked that and he would literally go crazy singing and dancing along with the song. His face would get beet red as he got all fired up dancing to skynyrd.
His name was Grover Cleveland Vaught and he was arguably the coolest teacher ever!!!!!
I had another teacher who used to administer tests and he would do stuff like draw a face on a paper plate and where it like a mask-----he would then point out that the plate did NOT have holes cut out for eyes-----he would then ask: When I put this mask on----what am I going to be able to see? And what kind of opportunities is that going to give you kids?
Basically he was letting us cheat----but not overtly telling us we could cheat.
He would do stuff like that a lot.
I had a sociology professor at Ohio State who let us take all our exams in groups. We asked if there was a size limit to how big the groups could be and he said no----so we then just formed one huge group and took the exams as a class. That class cost money too----that was so weak. i was paying for that BS class and it was a total waste of my time. Everyone got an A and I came away from it thinking that Sociology is a bunch of crap----it is totally a pseudoscience. It really aggravated me that that would be part of my curriculum and I had to pay for my time there---probably cost me over $500 and basically, I just got charged for 3 credits.
Thats part of college that I always thought was stupid---and that is all the meaningless classes that they force down your throat. You pay good money for a letter grade and yet you pull very little away from the course. Sure, it may help you in a game of trivial pursuit one day----but other than that----nada.
I tend to believe that our educational system is screwing up this country too. Every primary and high school acrossed the nation is pushing all the kids to go to college. GO to college, go to college.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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I have come to the conclusion a good portion of the kids are stupid and come from stupid parents.
Try teaching a rock to do anything but sit there.
ding,ding ,ding.......
we have a winner.
It's all about IQ which is inheritable for the most part.
Remember. Half of the students in public school are BELOW AVERAGE INTELLIGENCE.
The public schools are required to educate everyone including those that are unable to function at even the basic level.
I get the impression that the students and parents at that school are just plain dumb. You can't fix stupid.
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ding, ding ding.....
we have another winner.
Not everyone has the necessary intelligence to go to college. Only about 20% of the total population actually graduates from a 4 year college.
Yet the politicians get up on their soap box and declare that we need to have 100% of the students performing at the highest levels of achievement. Really?
Ever know anyone that was really dumb? They should perform at the highest levels of achievement too?
Calculus?
Quantum Physics?
Algebra?
Are you kidding?
even the parents are in denial about their childs ability.
Why can't Johnny read?
Because he is too stoopid, that's why.
About 75% of US students should be on a vocational track after about the 6th grade. Yet they are pushed into an academic track 100% of the time regardless of ability.
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All Pro
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All Pro
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His name was Grover Cleveland Vaught and he was arguably the coolest teacher ever!!!!!
Tyler, I definitely went to the same high school as you. And I had a feeling I knew who you were talking about the minute you started talking about singing. I never was in his class, but he coached me on the basketball team. All around good guy.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Some students, no matter what you do, will not pass a basic proficiency test b/c they do not have the necessary intelligence.
Some students that have the necessary intelligence can not be motivated, no matter what you do, to do the small amount of work necessary to be successful.
I will also say that the number of schools that fit into the inner city school category you mention is very small.
What should be done?
The truth is that there is a high probability that the best that can be done is to reach the students that can be reached at let the others fall behind.They will anyway.
BTW.
There is a strict screening process for teachers,but not students and parents.
Most "incompetent" teachers are weeded out by the first year.
True, there are some teachers that just give up,but they are really few and far
between and can not account for the 50% drop-out rate you mention nor students not passing basic proficiency tests.There just are not that many poor teachers. Most teachers are "average".
The average general education teacher's career is 5 years. The average special education teacher's career lasts 3 years. Alot of it is b/c they do not have the necessary tools to discipline their classrooms and are expected to perform miracles.
The kids do not fear being put into in-school restriction. They don't care about being suspended. " I get to stay home and play my games". And when they do get suspended the parents fight it.
Have you ever been a substitute teacher?
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Mattack,
I teach mentally retarded in high school.
They are willing to learn,but their ability is limited as you well know.I'm willing to accept that.The parents,however, are another story.
Now that their children have reached high school, the parents are starting to see the writing on the wall. Their child will never be "normal". The parents are desperate for their child to read.
I'm their last hope, and I'm damned good at teaching reading.
But the kids just aren't able to understand digraphs, dipthongs etc.
tion = shun
vowel + e = long vowel in the middle
ai = long A
The kind of skills that will get them over the hump to the 3rd grade level and beyond.
And it's my fault.
Never mind the other 6 teachers they had prior were unable to teach them to read at more than a 2nd grade level, if even that.
Never mind some of them can't recognize all the letters of the alphabet at age 17.
I get scapegoated b/c the parents can't accept the fact they conceived a special needs child.
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I have no relatives that are teachers. However, I can't agree with this premise.
Teachers are there primary for "support" if the kids need help they have to ask. Teachers can't read minds. Furthermore, most parents think just because they send their kids to school thats all they have to do.
A teacher can stand in front of the classroom, teach, work out step by step nice and slow 145 algebra problems on the board...explain to each student, answer any question...that doesn't mean 100% of the students are going to understand it or even be interested in it at all.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force that horse to drink. Its the same way with teachers, they can provide the water(teach), but they can't force the kid to drink it. (understand it or be interested in it)
Besides, our education system is so "dumbed down" now a days that in fact its pathetic if a kid can't atleast get a c in school.
when I went to Grade school and high school. Here was our grading scale:
100-96 A
95-90 B
89-80 C
79-71 D
70-0 F
Today a kid can get a C with a grade in the 70's, a B with a grade in the 80's
if that isn't dumbed down, I don't know what is...7 out of 10 kids today couldn't get A in school with the grade scale I had as a kid.
I do know the Local Private Schools in my area still adhere to such a high level of grading standards, The public school system is broken.
you don't "have" to be a Christian to send your kid to a private school, but if you want a high level of education for your child, thats where you would send them.....of course it will cost you more money, but you get what you pay for.
The public school system is a joke really....I know a guy who is half mentally retarded...yes half mentally challenged...the guy spends time in a local workshop for the mentally handicapped because he can't take care of himself and his parents are gone. This guy had a C average in school....if he can get a C average so can these other kids...this guy is mentally handicapped for petes sake...there are no excuses. of course his parents helped him out a lot and effort was put forth...buts its a testament to what can be acheieved
the blame lies with the parents and kids NOT with the teachers.
most of these kids don't want to learn or work because frankly why should they?
they grow up seeing mommy and daddy getting a government check and a health card for the rest of their lives...why should they care about school? we encourage such a system with easy access to it..
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1st String
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1st String
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 402 |
when I went to Grade school and high school. Here was our grading scale:
100-96 A
95-90 B
89-80 C
79-71 D
70-0 F
Today a kid can get a C with a grade in the 70's, a B with a grade in the 80's
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Do you realize that a teacher can change the way he grades today compared to when you were in school. He could make a 96% when you were in school into a 90% by using a different grading scale. I had a teacher that not one person received a grade higher than a 60% (AP Calculus) and I had a 99% average in Calculus. I received a 56% in his class for the year and when I got my report card I received an A. Grade scales are just grade scales.
When I took over the math classes at the school I teach at now, the students averaged around an 83% in those math classes. Now, the students are around an 89%. I could argue that I am a better teacher, but the other teacher could argue he was preparing the students for real life and kept their grades down so they would work harder. The standardized test results were identical from his last year to my first so the students obviously did not benefit from the higher grades. The main thing students need to do to get through school is pass the test. The higher grades just keep the parents out of the classroom.
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Joined: Feb 2007
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1st String
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1st String
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 402 |
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The public school system is a joke really....I know a guy who is half mentally retarded...yes half mentally challenged...the guy spends time in a local workshop for the mentally handicapped because he can't take care of himself and his parents are gone. This guy had a C average in school....if he can get a C average so can these other kids...this guy is mentally handicapped for petes sake...there are no excuses. of course his parents helped him out a lot and effort was put forth...buts its a testament to what can be acheieved
That student is baby fed the entire way through school. He gets to take a special standardized test. Gets one on one help on all tests. When I subbed I was in for Special Ed. A student came and wanted help on a test. If it is multiple choice you give the student two or three of the four or five choices and if he chose the wrong one you have to tell him to "think about it" or "are you positive?" The information is very much watered down so mentally handicapped students get through school. There is a law stating that any mentally handicapped student that stays in school until they are 21 graduates. To keep them in school, give them C's, it gives them confidence. If they received F's their entire education they would not make it to 21 because they would become disruptive because they are failing anyways
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum an update to the teachers being
fired in rhode island
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