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Article.

Suit: School spied on students via webcams
Cameras allegedly caught students and families in compromising situations

PHILADELPHIA - A suburban Philadelphia school district used school-issued laptop webcams to spy on students at home, potentially catching them and their families in compromising situations, a family claims in a federal lawsuit.

Lower Merion School District officials can activate the webcams without students' knowledge or permission, the suit said. Plaintiffs Michael and Holly Robbins suspect the cameras captured students and family members as they undressed and in other embarrassing situations, according to the suit.

Tom Halperin, a 15-year-old sophomore from Wynnewood, said students are "pretty disgusted" and have started putting masking tape over their computer webcams and microphones. He noted that his class recently read "1984," the George Orwell classic that coined the term "Big Brother."

"This is just bogus," Halperin said. "I just think it's really despicable that they have the ability to just watch me all the time."

The accusations amount to potentially illegal electronic wiretapping, said Witold J. Walczak, legal director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Pennsylvania, which is not involved in the case.

"School officials cannot, any more than police, enter into the home either electronically or physically without an invitation or a warrant," Walczak said.

The school district could not immediately confirm whether it has the ability to activate the webcams remotely, a spokesman said.

"We can categorically state that we are and have always been committed to protecting the privacy of our students," said the spokesman, Doug Young.

The affluent district prides itself on its technology initiatives, which include giving laptops to each of the approximately 2,300 students at its two high schools.

"It is no accident that we arrived ahead of the curve; in Lower Merion, our responsibility is to lead," Superintendent Christopher W. McGinley wrote on the district Web site. McGinley did not immediately return a message left Thursday by The Associated Press.

The Robbinses said they learned of the alleged webcam images when Lindy Matsko, an assistant principal at Harriton High School, told their son that school officials thought he had engaged in improper behavior at home. The behavior was not specified in the suit.

"(Matsko) cited as evidence a photograph from the webcam embedded in minor plaintiff's personal laptop issued by the school district," the suit states.

Matsko later confirmed to Michael Robbins that the school had the ability to activate the webcams remotely, according to the suit, which was filed Tuesday and which seeks class-action status.

Neither the Robbinses nor their lawyer, Mark S. Haltzman, returned messages left Thursday by The Associated Press.

In 2001, the U.S. Supreme Court reaffirmed the privacy of the home in a case that said police could not permeate a home with infrared lights to see if a suspect was using heat lamps to grow marijuana. Technology or no, Supreme Court precedents "draw a firm line at the entrance to the house," Justice Antonin Scalia wrote.

"This isn't just them spying on the kids, this is them intruding on the parents' home. Who knows what they are seeing?" Walczak said. "The courts for 80 years have said there's no greater sanctuary than a person's own home."

Halperin said, "School ends at the end of the school property, so they shouldn't really be in our business at home."


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I'm pretty disgusted by this and the fact the school thinks this is perfectly ok. If this happened to my kids I would be furious. I really dislike people being so quick to sue over seemingly the smallest of things, but in this case I hope the families take the school to the cleaners for this. I hope the school gets those illegal wiretapping charges, and on top of it I'd like to see a child pornography charge tacked on for video taping minors while they were undressing in their bedrooms. I'm usually the last person to get up in arms and I usually think people who do are a little but this has me pretty mad.


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This is just unbelievable. I am absolutely disgusted.

And if a school can do this, do people honestly think that it would be a problem for the government?

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I'm waiting for the facts to decide which side I'm disgusted with.
Perhaps what was observed was that the boy was using a stolen lap-top?
If so, perhaps instead of the parents wringing the kid's neck they called in the ACLU?
It should be interesting to follow.

From letter sent to parents from school district:

Upon a report of a suspected lost, stolen or missing laptop, the feature would be activated by the District's security and technology departments. The security feature's capabilities were limited to taking a still image of the operator and the operator's screen. This feature was only used for the narrow purpose of locating a lost, stolen or missing laptop. The District never activated the security feature for any other purpose or in any other manner whatsoever.

http://www.lmsd.org/sections/news/default.php?m=0&t=today&p=lmsd_anno&id=1138

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So, in other words, it's the school's version of Lojack.

Used in this manner I see no reason to be upset about this.


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That may very well be the case, however, when you consider that many a pervert work in schools it opens a Pandora's Box to potential abuse.

Add the fact that they are giving the laptops to students, and it's a student they are talking about, I am skeptical of the theft idea proposed by Reckon.

I am a little leery of OnStar as well. How do I know it's off and someone isn't listening in on a private conversation . . . or my incredibly bad singing voice?

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I am a little leery of OnStar as well. How do I know it's off and someone isn't listening in on a private conversation . . . or my incredibly bad singing voice?




LOL, I've often wondered about this as well.


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I am a little leery of OnStar as well. How do I know it's off and someone isn't listening in on a private conversation . . . or my incredibly bad singing voice?




Is that who I'm hearing when onStar has me on hold?


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Haha! Up next on American OnStar Idol....GMdawg!


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Haha! Up next on American OnStar Idol....GMdawg!




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Wow.. not sure about this one. On one hand I suppose the school has the right to track the whereabouts of it's property if the technology is available... on the other hand it seems like it would be pretty easy to abuse if somebody was so inclined.


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rule #1: when using non-person computers/laptops, keep them powered down when not in use.
rule #2: always inspect assigned devices for tracking hardware/software.
rule #3: read the usage policies that come with such devices.
rule #4: quit being pansies, and go buy your own damn laptops.


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What a bunch of BS, if it happened to me I'd be fuming mad


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it will be interesting if this went down as the article says, I think the school may be in some big trouble...

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What a bunch of BS, if it happened to me I'd be fuming mad




So, if you had stolen the laptop, you would be upset if they used this to track you down and get their property back?


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Them retrieving their property isn't the issue at all, they absolutely have the right to track their laptop down if it gets stolen. They can put a tracking device on there that doesn't have the ability to spy on students. Whether it was the intended use of this security feature or not, it still allowed them to do so if they chose to do so. With how many stories that have been out lately of school officials having sex with students, do you REALLY want them to have this ability? Do you want to give some sick ... the ability to watch a teenage girl undress to get in the shower without them knowing because it can also allow them to retrieve the laptop if it gets stolen? Seriously?

I am just assuming that the students didn't know about this "feature" because the article said that once the students found out about it, they started putting tape over the cameras so they couldn't be watched. Seems like a logical conclusion to come to.

Being intruded on like that in the name of security, in my opinion, is going too far and is not ok. The supreme court agrees with me:

Quote:

Technology or no, Supreme Court precedents "draw a firm line at the entrance to the house," Justice Antonin Scalia wrote.




The school is in deep crap no matter what the justification for doing this was. And rightfully so.


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I guess well see.. stay tuned, I'm sure we haven't heard the last of this...


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I am skeptical of the theft idea proposed by Reckon.




Your skeptism proves valid, as it concerned drugs. Here is text of video story from CBS, the link also provides the accompanying video. I am now ready to jump on the bandwagon of disgust against the school district.

(CBS) Blake Robbins never imagined the computer he got from school could peer into his personal life.

"I thought there was no way they could do this in my home," Blake said.

His parents, Holly and Michael Robbins, filed a federal lawsuit against his suburban Philadelphia school district, claiming administrators spied on him using a remote-controlled webcam on his school-issued laptop, reports CBS News correspondent Michelle Miller.

"I don't feel that school has the right to put cameras inside the kids' home, inside their bedrooms and spy on children," Holly said.

The suit claims a Harriton High School official enabled the device, concerned the sophomore was "engaged in improper behavior in his home." An assistant principal later confronted the student, citing a photograph taken by the webcam as evidence.

She thought I was selling drugs which is completely false," Blake said.

The camera is right here. And the lens is able to pick up a wide angle shot of anything directly in front of it. One of these Apple Computers is provided to every high school student in the Lower Merion School District, 2,300 in all.

The school says the feature is only used to locate a lost, stolen or missing laptop, and that they used the feature 42 times to recover 28 laptops over 14 months.

But the family insists they never reported the laptop as missing.

Other families are concerned.

"I just received an e-mail from my daughter who is very upset saying, 'Mom, I have that laptop open all the time in my bedroom even when I'm changing,'" one worried mother said.

Many privacy advocates say this may be a first.

"This is one of the most egregious privacy violations I've ever heard of," said Marc Rotenberg, the director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center. "People reasonably wouldn't have even thought of the possibility that the school districts intended to view their children remotely and surreptitiously."

School officials say they've now disabled the feature. But with reports of the FBI opening an investigation into possible wiretap violations, it is now the school district who has to worry about scrutiny.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/19/eveningnews/main6224726.shtml?source=related_story

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Being the small government conservative free market capitalist that I am, I wish to chime in on a few things and expand on my earlier post.

I have a few questions:

1. Were the laptops the "property" of the school and "lent or rented" to the students.
2. did the students or the parents have to sign a waiver and agree to a TOS or AUP?

If the answers to question #1 and question #2 are correct then the court should throw this case out for the following reasons:

A: The laptops are property of the school. They DO NOT belong to the parents or the student. As far as I know, As long an an individual american pays his taxes, a person can do whatever he/she wants with property they own as long as they are upfront about it in a legit way.

B: If the parents and students DID NOT read the AUP or TOS consenting to monitoring for maintenance and administrative purposes(I have yet to see a AUP, TOS or Disclaimer that doesn't have this wording in it) then that is the parents and students fault.

There should be ZERO expectation of privacy when using a public network, a wifi hot spot, or a computer or notebook that is the property of someone else and DOESN'T belong to the person who is using it.

If they wanted privacy, then buy their own notebook/lpatop/personal computer...nothing is stopping them....if they don't agree to the terms, there are options.

A lawsuit like this if won will just be utter stupidity and will cause a total diaster for AUP, TOS, and risk Management practices by small businesses and coporations world wide.

I mean whats next? It will be illegal for a company to monitor their employees internet surfing habits on company time on company owned computers and connections?

give me a break

this is a very slippery slope folks..


its garbage like this that hurts small business

is it any wonder companies set up shop overseas for petes sake!

its because of draconian ideas like this

people should be allowed to do whatever they want with property they own.

if the school wants to take these notebooks out and break them on the sidewalk, it should be their right...its their property for crying out loud.

only in America do we have neighbors and people who try to tell others what they can and can't do with their own property.....

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The High School has no business trying to police what kids do off school premises. Especially what kids do at their homes. That is their business and their parents business.

Schools don't need to try to be the vice squad. That is up to law enforcement---not assistant principals.


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is it any wonder companies set up shop overseas for petes sake!

its because of draconian ideas like this




Horse puckey. Companies moved overseas because W gave them tax breaks so they could afford to move overseas. Haven't you read anything by mac? W's tax cuts gave companies JUST enough to move.

Companies moving overseas has nothing to do with anything else - just ask mac.

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So you'd be perfectly ok with it if I loaned you something you needed for your home that I had an extra of, and then I used it to record you or your family whenever I deemed it a good idea that I do so without you or their knowledge? Thats all ok because its mine and I can do whatever I want with it?


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:::Raising the BS flag:::

My cable company owns my dvr...if it had a camera inside, would it be okay for them to take pictures of my living room or bedroom whenever they please?

I seriously doubt the school's agreement mentioned taking pictures and recording audio just because they felt like it.


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Thanks Reckon for the link. I was suspicious about it being stolen WITHOUT knowledge that many were and have been recovered using this snooping.

That being said, HOWEVER . . .

Quote:

There should be ZERO expectation of privacy when using a public network, a wifi hot spot, or a computer or notebook that is the property of someone else and DOESN'T belong to the person who is using it.




I agree in spirit with your mindset, I disagree that one isn't afforded some degree of privacy even if in public or using corporate/government/school equipment. For example, at work, I can reasonably expect that the company can/will monitor my internet browsing and as such I restrict what sites I visit to basic news and dawgtalkers and little little else.

I can even understand that they can/will intercept any and all emails and as such I am very cautious on what I write. You also never know who will forward it onwards.

I know they have cameras covering the parking lot and in several spots inside, like entrances, storage yard, break room, and trailers yard. I expect them to monitor those activity in those areas. I would not expect them in the restrooms or underneath peoples' desks.

But that is exactly what this school district is doing. If it was a matter of stolen laptops, crack open the cases and insert a gps tracker.This is snooping into childrens' private lives.

Today, nothing surprises me anymore. I would be willing to wager a small sum that some administrator has illegal snapshots of his/her students.

In this particular case, I believe the TOS is that the school can activate the cameras only if there is an allegation of theft. If the camera was activated for any other reason then you may very well see that it isn't the first time the school did this and someone may see jail time.

We close and lock our house doors for a reason. We expect security and privacy there.

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Quote:

So you'd be perfectly ok with it if I loaned you something you needed for your home that I had an extra of, and then I used it to record you or your family whenever I deemed it a good idea that I do so without you or their knowledge? Thats all ok because its mine and I can do whatever I want with it?




As long as its upfront in the agreement, TOS, AUP, etc that you consent to monitoring to use it...fine...as I said, you have the choice to buy your own.

This is about ownership...the school has a right to monitor the use of property that is theirs that is loaned...im sure some waiver or TOS, etc was agreed to and I have yet to see one that doesn't have some sort of consent to monitoring in it.

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Quote:

:::Raising the BS flag:::

My cable company owns my dvr...if it had a camera inside, would it be okay for them to take pictures of my living room or bedroom whenever they please?

I seriously doubt the school's agreement mentioned taking pictures and recording audio just because they felt like it.




Maybe, Maybe not

however, Time Warner knows:

1. what channel your watching at what time.
2. what firmware is on your dvr-r/cable box
3. if its been tampered with
4. ppv history
5. what stations you watch at what time, viewing trends, what commercials you watch and which ones you don't, etc

your ISP knows:

1. hat web sites you visit.
2. what you download
3. what you watch online
4. what youtube videos you view
5. etc

did you know that?

they know EVERYTHING you do, and you consent to it..they share that information with others...whats the difference?

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did you know that?






Of course. But, they aren't taking pictures or listening to my conversations. Do you not see the difference?


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This is about ownership...the school has a right to monitor the use of property that is theirs that is loaned...im sure some waiver or TOS, etc was agreed to and I have yet to see one that doesn't have some sort of consent to monitoring in it.




They can monitor the LAPTOP all they like, not the children. They don't OWN the kids.

I think this school is in deep doo-doo. They lied about what they use the cams for. They SAID it's to see who's using a missing laptop. What they DID was spy on this kid see if he was involved in drugs.


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Quote:

Quote:



did you know that?






Of course. But, they aren't taking pictures or listening to my conversations. Do you not see the difference?




Yes they are

if you have VOIP they are indeed listening to your phone conversations as required by the Patriot Act...same goes for your cell phone and regular Land line

they are listening to you....I don't understand how people don't get this concept.

there is NO REASONABLE EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY when using equipment, networks, or property that belongs to another....

if these Parents wanted Privacy, they can buy their own computer....I don't understand what is so hard to understand about this...

I can would bet on it they signed a paper agreeing to monitoring...monitoring can be more than just statistics...the school has a right to know:

1. who is using "their computer"
2. what the computer is being used for.

again as I said, if they don't like it, they can go buy their own computer.

this case should be thrown out as frivolous...it infringes on private property rights...of not only individuals but companies as well

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Whether it was the intended use of this security feature or not, it still allowed them to do so if they chose to do so.




Agreed. If I were in this family's shoes, I'd be furious as well. And even though I'm not crazy about our society's love of frivilous litigation, I'd be taking them to court.


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they are listening to you....I don't understand how people don't get this concept.






I'm talking about you and I sitting in the living room having a conversation -- no phones -- actual fact to face chat. I say they should NOT be allowed to listen to that. You say they should.

Guess we need a parent from these schools to provide a copy of their paperwork so we can see exactly what they agreed to. Tracking what the kids do on the computer, sure. But, turning on the camera whenever they feel like it to spy, NO.

If the school suspects my child is up to no good, they should get me involved instead of spying on my family.


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if you have VOIP they are indeed listening to your phone conversations as required by the Patriot Act...same goes for your cell phone and regular Land line

they are listening to you....I don't understand how people don't get this concept.




Ah, that's a bit of a dramatic over exaggeration and you know it.

They CAN - under the patriot act - they are not "required".... and even with every person in the current gov't. "listening" they wouldn't have enough people or time.
They glean info from logs and then say "hey, joe seems to be calling syria on a daily basis - maybe we ought to check in on that", (just an example - but you're smart enough to know what I mean).

I guarantee you when my grandma called me yesterday to confirm the time I am supposed to meet her tomorrow - no one but my grandma and I "heard" anything.

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this case should be thrown out as frivolous...it infringes on private property rights...of not only individuals but companies as well




What in the heck is your point? Private property rights doesn't provide carte blanche use of property. What I'm getting from what you write is similar to if you were saying a gun owner has right to use it to hold up a bank. There are more rights involved here than just those of the school.

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Ok michelle that I can agree with

I just think some may misunderstand me

Im looking at the "bigger picture here" then just the school

say you take a company laptop home to do company business

does the company have the right to monitor their laptop that belongs to them?

that is my crux of this argument

the employee doesn't have to take the company laptop home if he chooses not to take it home with him.

I just want to know if the parents signed a waiver agreeing to monitoring due to the laptops belong to the school..if they signed such an agreement, they agreed to it..

I agree kids should not be spied on

I also agree the school shouldn't require kids to install spying software on laptops or computers they own either.

was this the case of a school administrator abusing his post?

should the school be sused because of a ignorant administrator?

or maybe the individual should be sued and fired from the school

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Quote:

Quote:

this case should be thrown out as frivolous...it infringes on private property rights...of not only individuals but companies as well




What in the heck is your point? Private property rights doesn't provide carte blanche use of property. What I'm getting from what you write is similar to if you were saying a gun owner has right to use it to hold up a bank. There are more rights involved here than just those of the school.




that's stretching things quite a bit Reckon

of course a person doesn't have a right to use property in a way in threatens or injures another person or results in the loss of damage of their property.

the crux of my argument is if these people win this lawsuit, it "could" be used as precedent that:

1. companies will not be allowed to monitor their employees even thought their actions are done on company paid connections, company time, and company owned equipment...

this case could have those ramifications, and then risk management and protection of sensitive data will become much more difficult...

wouldn't you like to have the employees of your credit card company monitored on company owned laptops even at home if they have access to your financial and credit card records to ensure the integrity of your accounts and data?

many folks can't see past the ends of their nose, a case like this has long reach ramifications...have to see the forest for the trees thats all i am saying...

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IDK, if you are meeting her at the "white house next to the old bomb factory".

You might want to keep an eye out for black helicopters and men in dark glasses talking to their wrist.

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many folks can't see past the ends of their nose, a case like this has long reach ramifications...have to see the forest for the trees thats all i am saying...




And I think that's exactly how you are being viewed here, refusing to see the ramifications from the opposite end.

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I really think you are missing the point of this particular case. I have not read where the laptop in question was stolen. That being the case . . . then the school has breached it's own contract if and only if they stated that the only time they activate the camera is in cases of stolen property.

Since the laptop in question was not stolen then why did they flip the switch, in breach of TOS, and invade someone's privacy? AND, did they do it before and to whom?

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Legend
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Quote:

IDK, if you are meeting her at the "white house next to the old bomb factory".

You might want to keep an eye out for black helicopters and men in dark glasses talking to their wrist.




You work for the gov't.? How'd YOU know what we talked about?

Actually, a month or so ago grandma moved into a nursing home.......so they are having a "new resident" party for her and others that are new. If the gov't. wants to know about that - they could've listened to the phone call, according to what I think I know about the patriot act.

Good for them. If anyone shows up, I hope they bring a gift - or cash.

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Mattack Offline OP
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If I take a company laptop home and its being used then does the company have the right to check that it was being used to complete my work rather than watch dumb people bite it on youtube? Sure, most people would say that is reasonable.

Do they have the right to power on the webcam remotely and video tape me at random moments of the day without my knowledge when I'm not using it because they have a suspicion about me? You are the ONLY person who seems to think that is reasonable. Do you have a guess why that is?


"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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