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#442407 12/05/09 01:17 PM
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I'm definitely no expert, but it seems like two regimes of the Browns have tried Cribbs at WR with limited success. He's 215 lbs, not huge for a RB, but I think on par with LT. I feel he has great vision and knows just when to turn on his burst to exploit creases; that's why he's such a dangerous KR. Plus, his WR experience seems like it would help him be a dangerous receiver out of the backfield. Anyone have any thoughts/insight on the subject?

tjs7 #442408 12/05/09 01:27 PM
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at this point in the season its worth a look, its not like our other options are standouts.....I would use the rest of the season to evaluate and try players at various positions


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tjs7 #442409 12/05/09 01:36 PM
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This has been mentioned before. But,we''ll review. Cribbs has an upright running style that would probably get him injured. He would not make it through the year, IMHO.

tjs7 #442410 12/05/09 01:45 PM
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Give Harrison the damn ball already and lets see if he can carry the load for five games. What in Gods name do we have to lose at this point?

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Sorry if this is a repeat; I've only been on the board for a few days. Thanks for the review though.

tjs7 #442412 12/05/09 02:58 PM
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I'll add this:

Being a QB in college the transition to WR seems more obvious because he should understand the routes and responsibilities of a WR. So that would seem his more natural position if not at QB.

On the other hand, being such a good return man it makes one wonder if he's make a good RB too. If there's a problem there, other than his upright style which plenty of good running back through history have had, is that he's never been a RB. Unlike never having been a WR but having the same knowledge of routes and responsibilities because of being a QB, he has had no experience of any kind that he could bring to the table when being considered a RB. Blitz pickups and a natural understanding of how to quickly identify running lanes and holes have never been part of his skill set.

WR seems to be the more natural transition but that is difficult even given his offensive experience.

Josh is a QB who lacks the ability to play QB at the NFL level. What he is at this level is a stand out special teams player at both coverage and returns. His athletic skills and fearlessness of making contact are a natural fit for those jobs.

He seems like a guy who can do everything but he can't. Possibly, if you took away all of his special teams responsibilities in a few years maybe he could become a good WR. But how do you give up his special teams play when he's one of the best in the league at it?

If they awarded big contracts for heart, he would be the highest paid player in the league.


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tjs7 #442413 12/05/09 03:20 PM
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I know you haven't been around long based on your number of posts, so it's understandable that you may not be aware this has been an often discussed topic.

As a gadget guy who can run a wildcat, catch a screen, etc etc, Cribbs can do some things.

As a conventional player, he isn't a good fit for anything but return man.

As a receiver he isn't polished enough to run good routes and separate from coverages.

As a QB, well, that's self-explanatory.

As a RB, he takes way too many hard shots, and knowing how to avoid big hits is an art NFL RB's instinctually possess.

As a DB...........well, the talk said they'd try him there, but he hasn't been able to do it. The team has proven they are willing to play anyone out there, as Furrey has made the transition to nickle, but Cribbs likely didn't have it to make the transition.

Cribbs is often viewed as a guy who can be tried at any position because of his success at returning kicks, but that's mostly a desperation consideration.

Josh has his role. Being a full-time anything besides a return-man isn't something he's capable of.


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ddubia #442414 12/05/09 04:45 PM
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Quote:

Unlike never having been a WR but having the same knowledge of routes and responsibilities because of being a QB, he has had no experience of any kind that he could bring to the table when being considered a RB. Blitz pickups and a natural understanding of how to quickly identify running lanes and holes have never been part of his skill set.





That's pretty much how I see it. The idea of NFLers making drastic position switches is fun to discuss, but highly unrealistic.
Furrey had done it with some success I admit but it'd be easier for a WR to be a DB (or vice-versa) than for someone to suddenly become an NFL back.


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OverToad #442415 12/05/09 05:55 PM
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I could be wrong, but I always thought that Cribbs had that instinctual ability to avoid big hits. It has to be harder to avoid big hits as a returner than as a conventional RB. As far as being an upright runner, wasn't that the knock on AP? I would like to see if he could do it.

As far as Harrison goes, the man refuses to block. I'm not sure if he could block if he wanted to, but he doesn't want to. Two different coaches haven't played him because of it and I doubt any other coach would either.

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Quote:

s far as Harrison goes, the man refuses to block.





You don't watch the games do you. Or are you one of those who goes off of one play that was beat to death after Ray Lewis was untouched by Mack and had an open shot at the QB. Harrison was out of position to make that block, but he has improved his blitz pick-ups. No he's not a great blocker, but he does try.

This blocking BS is getting tired. The man produces with the ball in his hands, that he has proven. Ever watch Lewis block? Not that great, but he can tap dance very good.

Harrison is wasted talent on a team led by an arrogant jackass.


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E.Ryze19 #442417 12/05/09 08:37 PM
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Harrison's so dangerous that he has a 3.6 YPC, a whole .1 better than Jamal.

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Quote:

It has to be harder to avoid big hits as a returner than as a conventional RB.




It's actually the other way around.

When you're a returner, you're running TOWARDS players who are running towards you. That means less ability by those players to adjust to what you're doing.

Consider how much easier it is for a return man to take one to the house in a situation where he's essentially untouched.

Nah, Chincher, it's much tougher to run as a conventional back than it is returning kicks.


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OverToad #442419 12/06/09 04:23 AM
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Quote:

When you're a returner, you're running TOWARDS players who are running towards you.




So conventional backs don't run towards the defenders who are running towards them? They are either running towards them, or they are running away from them which wouldn't be as big of an impact.

Cribbs has good speed, agility, vision, and average hands for a RB. I say try him there and quit the experiment as a WR.

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It's tough attempting to convey the differences between running out of a conventional formation and returning kicks, but consider this:

How many great kick-returners in the league are receivers and defensive backs?

It would stand to reason that they should have been able to transition to running back as well if the skill-set transitioned to the position.

From what I've seen of Cribbs, he's no clue how to avoid big hits when running behind a conventional offense. As a receiver he's fumbled once this year because he tried to stretch out a meaningless catch and didn't protect the ball. He's also taken some serious shots when running out of the Wildcat because he doesn't know how to protect himself.

Lastly, considering that we're now reduced to a street-level guy and Harrison, whose been deactivated most of the year, one would think that if they believed Cribbs capable of being a full-time running back he'd be in there.

Hell, they've tried him at just about everywhere else. You'd think if they thought it remotely possible he'd be back there.

Cribbs has a role on this team. Just because he's a dynamic kick-returner doesn't mean he has the ability to play every position. Trying to make him into a receiver put him into the hospital a couple of weeks ago. They need to stop screwing around with him so they don't ruin what he does well.


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Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
OverToad #442421 12/06/09 12:48 PM
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Quote:

Trying to make him into a receiver put him into the hospital a couple of weeks ago.




That had nothing to do with Cribbs being in a Receiver, but more of him not paying attention when he was on the field. He clearly put himself into that position which wasn't due from being a WR.

tjs7 #442422 12/06/09 12:55 PM
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Unfortunately you're being schooled by the wrong posters on what is and isn't - what has and what hasn't been discussed.

Pounds... who were you talking about Cribbs or AP?

tjs7...I've been stating this now for two seasons. When will we realize the fact that Cribbs is not a WR.

He's a great 3-Down back... 1 n 2 is potential and better 3rd down RB than what we have used. As I would love to see him with the ball in a 3rd n 8 check down in the flats wide open and get that first down! I've seen him block and hit and I've told all that blocking is a state of mind and Cribbs has that tenacity to do it successfully...also his experience at QB can help in identifying the blitz.

He has an uncanny skill to see a sliver of a hole and explode through it and make the pile always fall forward. He is 215 lbs and pretty durable the head on collisions with two guys running over 30 yards like a train at each other is a little more violent than the collisions of a 300+ guy at the LOS. And regarding the 2nd level Cribbs has a gift to change directions ever so slightly so that he can move that pile forward...which guess what? means he is avoiding the head on hits!!!

I see so much of Marion Barber in him as his potential but I think he has more big play capabilities in him than Barber. Rather than have him come in and the entire Defense points him out cause now if he's lined up in a Wing, QB and most cases WR...there is some special play for him.

I'd love to have him play RB full time...sure rotate another in there as well. But a threat that every team would be forced to game plan against, opening up other avenues as well.

I to like you, have been waiting for the day that the WR positional position experiment will be over. He has always shown his best on the offense in the duties of a RB.

JMHO and welcome to the board.


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I disagree. I say his lack of experience out there created a situation where he should have known to be able to protect himself better but he didn't.

Furthermore, if we aren't trying this idiotic experiment to transition him to WR to begin with, he isn't out there in the first place.

This team has tried for two regimes now to make him into a reciever.

It's failed.

There was talk they wanted to look at making him into a defensive back.

It failed.

There's continued to be talk that we should try and make him a running back.

It. Will. Fail.

Cribbs is becoming less effective doing what he does best because we're trying these silly desperation moves to try and make him into something he can't be. The best we can get from Cribbs and still be able to get maximum production on special teams is some Wildcat gimmick stuff. That's it.

It all stems from the false belief that he's got abilities that can transition to all these other positions on the field.

Cribbs' career is half-over. It's simply too late to try and teach him instinctual things that he should have been developing in high school.


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Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
OverToad #442424 12/06/09 01:04 PM
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Amen...sometimes I think we're trying to get the guy killed!

OverToad #442425 12/06/09 01:07 PM
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and yet those few opportunities that can be remotely interpreted as RB he has succeeded and very nicely where even the local media was asking from the beginning of the season if RB is his spot. Gee when the Bozo's start getting it right maybe it is what it is...lol

Nothing is a done deal...we both know that. But as for his potential and we wish to utilize him and that potential. RB is the clearest avenue...what kills me is like we fight it. And yet we see successful glimpses after glimpses with the ball in his hands and 9 out of 10 times it has nothing to do with him catching the ball...its all about his RB skills.

JMHO


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eotab #442426 12/06/09 01:18 PM
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ok...here's my take:

I think he is neither a RB or a WR.....we should use him as the Saints use Reggie Bush just to get the ball in his hands. and we should try to let him pass every now and then when he is in the wildcat.

then again, we could just keep him on ST and let him be our Steve Tasker and Mel Gray combined......then go and get Reggie after the Saints cut him this offseason


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eotab #442427 12/06/09 01:21 PM
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Meh, the "local media" have asked if DB was his spot and if WR was his spot.

The media aren't any smarter than we are. They just have more exposure.

As I've said, as a gimmick guy, Cribbs can do some things, but to try and make him into a guy that's going to get 10 carries a game, it's asking for trouble.

I also want to debunk something you and a few others have tried to use as an argument, which is that while Cribbs has an upright running style, so does AP.

The obvious difference is that Peterson knows how to deliver or avoid punishment. Cribbs doesn't, and it's not close.

Furthermore, just because their sizes appear similar doesn't mean they both know how to run with the ball. Instinctually, Cribbs is not now nor has he ever been a running back. Peterson has been since day one.

All we're doing is squabbling over the definition because there are some, and that doesn't necessarily mean the author of this thread, that says Cribbs can be a regular running back. I've seen him take WAY too many shots in limited touches to make me comfortable with that idea.

I'd also like to see him attempt a few blocks on a blitzing 250-pound backer before I say he can be a 3rd down back. That's the very thing that kept guys like Jamel White from being an effective 3rd down back, and why Harrison can't see the field.

Leave Cribbs where he is. A few gadget plays a game won't hurt him, but beyond that? It's asking for trouble.

And Eo............please............No more comparisons suggesting he can be Marion Barber I spit my cornflakes all over the keyboard when I read that one *L*

There's a huge difference between delivering punishment and taking it.


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"we should use him as the Saints use Reggie Bush just to get the ball in his hands."

Lot of good in Cribbs but Exceptional Speed is not one of them...that Bush status thing should be relegated to a Speed Guy...Scat. Although a return man he's one of the few that OUT RUNS his opponents. Cribbs displays that HEART burst and vision for what he does and why I think he can contribute at the RB position.

Toad...spit your cornflakes away...Ignorance is Bliss but not an argument.

as always JMHO and has been for a couple of years now.


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