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ESPN reports that several teams have contacted Weiss stating that he would be welcome at the offensive coordinator position. I wonder if the Browns are one of those teams? Daboll is clearly not cutting it. It looks (at least to me) that Mangini will be here next year. So does anyone think we'll make a run at Weiss? Does anybody think it would be a good idea?
Personally, if we keep Mangini, I think it would be a great pick up at OC.
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Personally I don't think Mangini will be here. But if the new regime keeps Quinn then I think it would be an excellent idea to hire Wiess. He knows exactly what Quinn can and cannot do and will always put him in the best position to succeed.
If Mangini stays I doubt very much he'd want Wiess here. I believe the reason he brought in Daboll is because with Daboll being a first-time OC that gives Mangini a lot of input and overrides regarding the offense. He wouldn't dare do that with someone as experienced as Wiess. It would take some of the decision making and control away from Mangini and I believe he covets that too much to relinquish that. After all, he has a plan.
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Tenn...it will be up to the football Czar, so until Lerner fills that position, everything else is on hold.
The Browns could be in a great position to have a shot at hiring the cream of the crop to fill out a new coaching staff, IF Lerner gets the Czar position filled as soon as he can.
As for Weis...I would not be surprised if he had a job waiting for him with the Patriots.
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It will be up to the head coach, not the Czar, to hire his own coordinators.
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IMO, guys like Weis don't work for guys like Mangini ... more like the other way around.
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Great point dub. I never even thought about Quinn and Weiss. I also think everyone else is right about THE MAN not wanting anybody who might even remotely have any type of authority over anything.
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Who is Charlie Wiess?
I know I've been endorsing Charlie Weis for awhile now.
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Personally I don't think Mangini will be here. But if the new regime keeps Quinn then I think it would be an excellent idea to hire Wiess. He knows exactly what Quinn can and cannot do and will always put him in the best position to succeed.
I was thinking the same thing dub....
There are alot of things to factor into the equation, the new Czar, etc, but I wonder how Weis and Mangini got along in New England. Weiss could be a real good fit here, but Mangini is still blowin Daboll, uh I mean Dabolls horn, uh, that doesn't sound good either way does it? 
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Quote:
Personally, if we keep Mangini, I think it would be a great pick up at OC.
According to an interview posted on here with Mangini,, He thinks Daboll will be a great OC... So, that kinda says that if Mangini stays, Daboll may as well...
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Who is Charlie Wiess?
I know I've been endorsing Charlie Weis for awhile now.
It's the same guy when referred to by us people who don't know how to spell his name, are too lazy to look it up or PM you for the correct spelling. 
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Quote:
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Personally, if we keep Mangini, I think it would be a great pick up at OC.
According to an interview posted on here with Mangini,, He thinks Daboll will be a great OC... So, that kinda says that if Mangini stays, Daboll may as well...
Yeah, that sounds about right...
you had a good run Hank.
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He would fill the Tri-fecta!
Sealy - Special Teams Coach
Ryan - Defensive Coordinator
hmmmm
Weiss - Offensive Coordinator
Probably a move the power guy would make if their name was PARCELLS 
I doubt it if his name is Holmgren.
I think one of the attractive things for Weiss would be to coach his QB BQ...
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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Quote:
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Personally, if we keep Mangini, I think it would be a great pick up at OC.
According to an interview posted on here with Mangini,, He thinks Daboll will be a great OC... So, that kinda says that if Mangini stays, Daboll may as well...
What is he going to say?
"You know, I really screwed that one up. I know he's still with us and everything, but boy does he suck! I can't wait to get rid of him the minute we play our last game. He interviewed well, sounded like he had some good ideas, but jeez, he's just absolutely terrible.
I can't believe I picked a guy like that. My bad, guys. I'll try to do better the next time. Let's hope it works!"
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"According to an interview posted on here with Mangini,, He thinks Daboll will be a great OC ... So, that kinda says that if Mangini stays, Daboll may as well"
Aha...but did he say WHERE he'll be a great OC? If that is quote is real I find it odd that he didn't state...HERE IN CLEVELAND...or just the addition of the word "HERE" Great OC Here... 
JMHSay what 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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Quote:
Who is Charlie Wiess?
I know I've been endorsing Charlie Weis for awhile now.
OH WHATEVER!!!!
Geez I hate board nazi's! :mad
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Quote:
Who is Charlie Wiess?
I know I've been endorsing Charlie Weis for awhile now.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Whatever makes us better,...I am all for it.
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It will be up to the head coach, not the Czar, to hire his own coordinators.
dub...you don't know that, do you?
If the football Czar is going to be responsible for setting up this organization, it would be hard to believe that his finger prints will not be on the hiring of the top 3 openings on the football side..the HC, OC and DC.
I can see the HC and Czar agreeing on whom will fill the OC opening, but I doubt that a HC, such as Mangini, would have the power to hire his own OC, such as Daboll, without the approval of the football Czar.
The days of a Browns organization where most of the power is centered around the HC, are gone, once a Czar has been hired.
The point you may have missed was that until a Czar is hired, you are not going to see Charlie Weis hired by the Browns. I was pointing out that the first thing that must be done (hopefully ASAP) is filling the Czar opening.
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Quote:
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It will be up to the head coach, not the Czar, to hire his own coordinators.
dub...you don't know that, do you?
If the football Czar is going to be responsible for setting up this organization, it would be hard to believe that his finger prints will not be on the hiring of the top 3 openings on the football side..the HC, OC and DC.
I can see the HC and Czar agreeing on whom will fill the OC opening, but I doubt that a HC, such as Mangini, would have the power to hire his own OC, such as Daboll, without the approval of the football Czar.
The days of a Browns organization where most of the power is centered around the HC, are gone, once a Czar has been hired.
The point you may have missed was that until a Czar is hired, you are not going to see Charlie Weis hired by the Browns. I was pointing out that the first thing that must be done (hopefully ASAP) is filling the Czar opening.
I'm with dub on this one. It's very, very, very rare that a head coach doesn't get to choose his staff. Think of the czar like an athletic director in college. The AD selects the head coach, who selects his staff.
Now I'm not saying the czar won't have input, but ultimately it will most likely be the HC's decision. And I don't think we're going to attract many coaches if that's not the case.
The czar hires the HC, GM, and personnel people. The HC hires his staff, since he'll be the one working with them day-in and day-out. Again, not that the czar won't have input, but the minute you have him selecting coordinators and even position coaches is the minute you enter Al Davis territory.
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Weis will probably have his pick of a couple of teams as a coordinator .... and his choice might just speak volumes ......
Face it .. if he has a shot at coming here and working with his "future NFL star" .... and turns that down .... it might just demonstrate whether or not he was blowing smoke up everyone's butts about Quinn.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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What if he likes Quinn but thinks Mangini is a knob?
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While an offensive coordinator might want to work for a "nice" head coach ..... he cannot .... and this is an absolute ... he cannot be successful without a good QB.
Mangini has shown confidence in his coordinators. He has not blasted them ... nor taken their play calling abilities from them. He has supported them publicly. Yeah .... I'd hate that if I were an assistant coach and/or coordinator.
I agree with Marty Schottenheimer from a couple of decades ago ..... "Playcalling is overrated". I might add ... "extremely overrated". Players make plays ..... plays don't make players.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I'm just saying that Weis turning down a job with the Browns might have nothing at all to do with his regard, or lack of regard, for Quinn. The guy you have to work for is a lot more important. I don't think that Weis turning down an offer to be OC here, if he would, is necessarily a litmus test on his real opinion of Quinn, which is what I thought you were implying..
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Keep Mangini as HC Weis as OC Bring back Romeo as DC It'll be like our own little Patriots team! Except for the players, those are Jets! 
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All of our hiring will depend on Czar and his background. Holmgreen will go WCO and someone like Mooch or Gruden. Parcells might go to the patriots tree or someone out of his own tree. Like I said until we hire a Czar it doesn't really matter. However,if a team was strongly considering Clausen I would without a doubt hire Weiss to be an OC and draft Clausen.
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Quote:
While an offensive coordinator might want to work for a "nice" head coach ..... he cannot .... and this is an absolute ... he cannot be successful without a good QB.
Mangini has shown confidence in his coordinators. He has not blasted them ... nor taken their play calling abilities from them. He has supported them publicly. Yeah .... I'd hate that if I were an assistant coach and/or coordinator.
I agree with Marty Schottenheimer from a couple of decades ago ..... "Playcalling is overrated". I might add ... "extremely overrated". Players make plays ..... plays don't make players.
Ytown...they go hand in hand.
The one drive where Daboll called short passes to Cribbs for 3 consecutive plays made my head explode.
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Quote:
Quote:
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It will be up to the head coach, not the Czar, to hire his own coordinators.
dub...you don't know that, do you?
If the football Czar is going to be responsible for setting up this organization, it would be hard to believe that his finger prints will not be on the hiring of the top 3 openings on the football side..the HC, OC and DC.
I can see the HC and Czar agreeing on whom will fill the OC opening, but I doubt that a HC, such as Mangini, would have the power to hire his own OC, such as Daboll, without the approval of the football Czar.
The days of a Browns organization where most of the power is centered around the HC, are gone, once a Czar has been hired.
The point you may have missed was that until a Czar is hired, you are not going to see Charlie Weis hired by the Browns. I was pointing out that the first thing that must be done (hopefully ASAP) is filling the Czar opening.
I'm with dub on this one. It's very, very, very rare that a head coach doesn't get to choose his staff. Think of the czar like an athletic director in college. The AD selects the head coach, who selects his staff.
Now I'm not saying the czar won't have input, but ultimately it will most likely be the HC's decision. And I don't think we're going to attract many coaches if that's not the case.
The czar hires the HC, GM, and personnel people. The HC hires his staff, since he'll be the one working with them day-in and day-out. Again, not that the czar won't have input, but the minute you have him selecting coordinators and even position coaches is the minute you enter Al Davis territory.
I agree.
If a coach is told who to hire by the GM, then the GM needs to be the coach.
Assistant jobs should be dictated by the coach and nobody else.
End of story.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
It will be up to the head coach, not the Czar, to hire his own coordinators.
dub...you don't know that, do you?
If the football Czar is going to be responsible for setting up this organization, it would be hard to believe that his finger prints will not be on the hiring of the top 3 openings on the football side..the HC, OC and DC.
I can see the HC and Czar agreeing on whom will fill the OC opening, but I doubt that a HC, such as Mangini, would have the power to hire his own OC, such as Daboll, without the approval of the football Czar.
The days of a Browns organization where most of the power is centered around the HC, are gone, once a Czar has been hired.
The point you may have missed was that until a Czar is hired, you are not going to see Charlie Weis hired by the Browns. I was pointing out that the first thing that must be done (hopefully ASAP) is filling the Czar opening.
I'm with dub on this one. It's very, very, very rare that a head coach doesn't get to choose his staff. Think of the czar like an athletic director in college. The AD selects the head coach, who selects his staff.
Now I'm not saying the czar won't have input, but ultimately it will most likely be the HC's decision. And I don't think we're going to attract many coaches if that's not the case.
The czar hires the HC, GM, and personnel people. The HC hires his staff, since he'll be the one working with them day-in and day-out. Again, not that the czar won't have input, but the minute you have him selecting coordinators and even position coaches is the minute you enter Al Davis territory.
How many football Czars are in the NFL at this time?
It may depend on who is the Czar, but even Randy Lerner should have learned that allowing a HC unchecked authority to chose anyone they want to be their OC is a mistake (x2 in Cleveland).
Remember when Crennel chose his OC...how much did that set the Browns back?
So Lerner turns around and gives Mangini unchecked power to chose his OC...how has that worked out for the Browns?
When the Browns have HC from the defensive side of the ball, and they are allowed to chose their own OCs, bad things happen to the Browns offense.
To be fair, the Browns have not defined their Czar position yet. How much power ends up in the hands of the Czar will likely depend on who, the individual is.
If the Browns football Czar is someone...say Mike Holmgren...I could see him fully involved with the HC to fill out the coordinators and coaching positions.
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Quote:
Quote:
While an offensive coordinator might want to work for a "nice" head coach ..... he cannot .... and this is an absolute ... he cannot be successful without a good QB.
Mangini has shown confidence in his coordinators. He has not blasted them ... nor taken their play calling abilities from them. He has supported them publicly. Yeah .... I'd hate that if I were an assistant coach and/or coordinator.
I agree with Marty Schottenheimer from a couple of decades ago ..... "Playcalling is overrated". I might add ... "extremely overrated". Players make plays ..... plays don't make players.
Ytown...they go hand in hand.
The one drive where Daboll called short passes to Cribbs for 3 consecutive plays made my head explode.
And statements like this make my head explode ......
There is always a checkdown option on each and every play. It is 1 of 3 or 4 options ...... it is almost never the only option in a play call.
In other words ..... a play is called that says that player A will do such, player B will do such, player C will do something else .... and the QB will decide which player to throw the ball to based upon what he sees, and what he believes will work.
The OC does not sit up in the booth and say "throw the ball short to Cribbs on this play". He says "Play package A,B,or C" and sends in a personnel grouping. The QB is expected to look at the defense and decide which play to run from withon the package. He is then expected to read the coverage and determine where to throw the ball. There might is a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and maybe even a 4th progression to go through .... unless the play is simply a quick hit type play. Even those type of plays can be changed based on the defense by the QB to another play in the same package.
At least, this is my understanding of our offense and play calling system based upon interviews with both Mangini and Daboll. If "play calling" is predictable .... it is because the QB is favoring certain plays within a package/personnel grouping.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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On the premise that Weis is let go.
The only problem that I foresee is Mangini going to Lerner wanting to sign Weis, and Lerner not being able to commit until after the President/GM is hired.
I would be reluctant to invest the money into Weis at this time. If I was Weis, I would want to know that I would have a job for more than a few weeks.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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charg...let's be honest...Mangini is likely gone!
The only way Charlie Weis gets hired by the Browns would be if our Czar and new HC agreed to hire him.
Weis in Cleveland is a long shot, folks.
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I can't help but think......................
Weiss rode the coattails of Bellyache and Brady all the way to a huge contract to coach the 'Domers.
He failed.
Since he left, Josh McDaniels rode the coattails of Bellyache and Tom Brady to the Super Bowl and the Donks gig.
So I do have to wonder if Weis is really that good offensively, or if he's fools-gold.
I do think he's a good coordinator, but I think he's probably overrated, just like Crennel, Mangini, and probably a few more of those Bellyache guys.
Would I want him here? No, because it'd probably mean a continuation of Brady Quinn, and I'm ready for a change.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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But the area restaurants would prosper!
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What if we took Clausen??
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Can`t coach a college team to be a winner....another fired coach....reminds me of Mangini...... Can`t the Browns just appeal to a winning coach that wants to come here............
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I have two comments regarding that:
1) It would make sense to reunite Weiss and Clausen
2) I don't care for Clausen, hence I wouldn't want them reunited here
I've had numerous conversations with Deep regarding Clausen. From a physical standpoint, I like him much more than I did Quinn when he was coming out, but from an emotional standpoint, he could be the biggest ... to come out since Leaf.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Quote:
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It will be up to the head coach, not the Czar, to hire his own coordinators.
dub...you don't know that, do you?
If the football Czar is going to be responsible for setting up this organization, it would be hard to believe that his finger prints will not be on the hiring of the top 3 openings on the football side..the HC, OC and DC.
I can see the HC and Czar agreeing on whom will fill the OC opening, but I doubt that a HC, such as Mangini, would have the power to hire his own OC, such as Daboll, without the approval of the football Czar.
The days of a Browns organization where most of the power is centered around the HC, are gone, once a Czar has been hired.
The point you may have missed was that until a Czar is hired, you are not going to see Charlie Weis hired by the Browns. I was pointing out that the first thing that must be done (hopefully ASAP) is filling the Czar opening.
I'm with dub on this one. It's very, very, very rare that a head coach doesn't get to choose his staff. Think of the czar like an athletic director in college. The AD selects the head coach, who selects his staff.
Now I'm not saying the czar won't have input, but ultimately it will most likely be the HC's decision. And I don't think we're going to attract many coaches if that's not the case.
The czar hires the HC, GM, and personnel people. The HC hires his staff, since he'll be the one working with them day-in and day-out. Again, not that the czar won't have input, but the minute you have him selecting coordinators and even position coaches is the minute you enter Al Davis territory.
How many football Czars are in the NFL at this time?
It may depend on who is the Czar, but even Randy Lerner should have learned that allowing a HC unchecked authority to chose anyone they want to be their OC is a mistake (x2 in Cleveland).
Remember when Crennel chose his OC...how much did that set the Browns back?
So Lerner turns around and gives Mangini unchecked power to chose his OC...how has that worked out for the Browns?
When the Browns have HC from the defensive side of the ball, and they are allowed to chose their own OCs, bad things happen to the Browns offense.
To be fair, the Browns have not defined their Czar position yet. How much power ends up in the hands of the Czar will likely depend on who, the individual is.
If the Browns football Czar is someone...say Mike Holmgren...I could see him fully involved with the HC to fill out the coordinators and coaching positions.
To answer your first question, there are plenty of people in the league that are called "Team President" or "Vice President of Football Operations" that act in the same role as a czar ... meaning that they are in charge of all football operations, including the hiring of a GM and/or Coach.
Just because we're deciding to call it a czar in this particular situation doesn't mean that we are one of the "few" teams with someone in control of the football operations. Most teams have this, few call it a "czar".
So what happens when the czar wants someone as OC who the head coach can't stand? That can't be good for the team, can it?
Just because we've had two lousy selections for OC here doesn't mean we just allow someone else other than the head coach choose the coordinators. Are bad choices a reflection on the head coach? Sure, they are. But there are bad choices all around the league, and, as I said earlier, as soon as you start having someone else choose the coaching staff is the minute you get into Al Davis territory.
Obviously both the czar and the coach should work together. The coach should not choose someone that doesn't run the scheme that the czar has identified he wants to run (and probably selected the head coach for that very reason).
Finally, to your comment about Holmgren - being "involved" and having "final say" are two COMPLETELY different things.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Hall of Famer
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dub...you don't know that, do you?
Yes
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If the football Czar is going to be responsible for setting up this organization, it would be hard to believe that his finger prints will not be on the hiring of the top 3 openings on the football side..the HC, OC and DC.
Of course they will talk about it. That's one of the things that keeps them on the same page.
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I can see the HC and Czar agreeing on whom will fill the OC opening, but I doubt that a HC, such as Mangini, would have the power to hire his own OC, such as Daboll, without the approval of the football Czar.
Of course they will talk about it. But it will be the HC who has final say on that matter.
It's all well and good if you're talking only football so assuming the guy who presumably knows the most about football and the people in the NFL (the Czar) would hand pick those in charge at every high position. But that fails to consider whether or not the HC already knows that guy or has worked with him or has gotten along with him. It fails to consider if he even likes that guy as a person, a personality, a character. It fails to consider if the HC feels he is able to work with him in an "on-the-same-page" situation.
In fact, it fails to consider the HC at all. Raise your hand if you want to be that HC.
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The days of a Browns organization where most of the power is centered around the HC, are gone, once a Czar has been hired.
Most but not all. Of course, they will talk about it. It's not going to be nor should it be for the HC to walk into the Czar's office one morning declairing who he's just hired as the OC or DC with the Czar having no prior knowledge of it. They will talk about it so that they can be on the same page. They will discuss the pros and cons. If either or both of them has worked with the potential hire before they will share notes. They will talk about other people they have in common who may have information and opinions on the candidate whom they can talk to about the job.
There's a million things to consider, But one of them is not that the Czar will hand pick coordinators with whom the HC is forced to work with like it or not. The HC, not the Czar, will pick his assistants. The HC will have final say on that.
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The point you may have missed was that until a Czar is hired, you are not going to see Charlie Weis hired by the Browns. I was pointing out that the first thing that must be done (hopefully ASAP) is filling the Czar opening.
I didn't miss any point of the sort. I never said a word about anyone hiring anyone before this season is over. And since I know, as I assume everyone else does as well, that the Czar will be the first hire. So, of course, common sense, that the first thing that will be done is filling teh Czar opening.
You didn't need to point that out at all.
#gmstrong
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Face it .. if he has a shot at coming here and working with his "future NFL star" .... and turns that down .... it might just demonstrate whether or not he was blowing smoke up everyone's butts about Quinn.
Or that he really like working with Belichick and looks forward to the reunion and winning some more superbowls.
Or he and his family like living there where they'd left so many good friends behind and that could be the deciding factor.
Or he may consider that the Browns have the QB but not the supporting cast to be able to carry out and be successful in his system and would feel it a fail to even attempt it.
Dude's been losing awhile. It wears on a guy. He may opt out for anywhere there is a good chance to put that behind him and win some games.
It doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't really believe Quinn can be a future star. It would simply mean that he doesn't worship at his feet and would give up other great opportunities to further his own career in exchange to work for an organization that is in constant upheaval and peril.
#gmstrong
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What about Charlie Wiess as
o-coordinator???
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