DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Amazingly Powerful Video of Friendly Fire Mix-up

Firstly let me say that this link goes into the video of the US warplanes firing on a British convoy in the Iraq war.

**** The video lasts about 15 minutes and does have alot of bad language so if you are going to be offended by the use of the 'F' word then please do not view this****

At the recent inquest I understand that the US government refused permission for the court to view this footage as it would compromise security - the case has been adjourned. Somehow the British Press have gotten hold of it!?

http://www.thesun.co.uk/ I am not an expert at posting links but this takes you to the mainpage click on the story and then click again on the Headline 'God Damit we're in Jail Dude'

yeah because they were out looking to slay themselves some brits that day

Friendly fire is unfortunate but it does happen .I feel for the man and his family and also the pilots who have to live with the knowledge that they are responsible for killing a friendly.

Link didn't work for me so here is some more of the story


U.S. friendly fire video leaked to media By PAISLEY DODDS, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 28 minutes ago



LONDON - A leaked video in which an American pilot is heard saying "we're in jail, dude," after U.S. troops killed a British soldier during a friendly fire incident in Iraq was released by The Sun newspaper Tuesday. Lance Cpl. Matty Hull died when troops fired on his convoy in the southern Iraqi city of Basra on March 28, 2003.

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A coroner investigating Hull's death had demanded the video be released and presented as evidence in the inquest but U.S. authorities refused. The leak means that the material is now in the public domain, his office said Tuesday, suggesting it may be shown when the inquest resumes Feb. 16.

U.S. military officials conducted their own investigation but the findings have not been made public.

British officials also had asked their U.S. counterparts to release the material to the family but had been rebuffed.

"The main thing to stress is that we have always had a very clear view that what matters is the information should be available to the family and — whilst the Americans cannot be legally obliged to help — they should do so, bearing in mind they are our allies," said Constitutional Affairs Secretary Harriet Harman, who has had several meetings with officials in the U.S. Embassy.

The Pentagon declined comment Tuesday, but the deputy chief of mission at the U.S. Embassy in London, David Johnson, told the British Broadcasting Corp. it would consider de-classifying the video if the military determined it would not put forces at risk.

The defense ministry said it was unable to persuade the U.S. to declassify the footage — a recording British authorities initially claimed did not exist.

The Ministry of Defense said in a statement Tuesday it had not tried to deceive Hull's family. It said the army's Board of Inquiry used a copy of the video in its investigation of the incident, but it was U.S. government property and it was not authorized to release it.

The pilot can be heard in the cockpit trying to establish whether targets on the ground are coalition forces or insurgents.

One man asserts that orange panels on the vehicles could mean they are coalition forces — most are equipped with bright markers to prevent such incidents.

Another man is heard saying the orange markers look like rockets.

"I think killing these damn rocket launchers, it would be great," a man on the recording is heard saying.

Two U.S. A-10 jets allegedly opened fire on Hull's tank, which was part of five-vehicle convoy engaged in combat outside of Basra. Four other soldiers were injured, including the convoy's leader, Capt. Alexander MacEwen.

The convoy — three British Scorpion tanks and two engineering vehicles — had come to a halt at the edge of a shantytown near the southern Iraqi city of Basra. The soldiers were being approached by a crowd of civilians carrying a white flag when they were attacked.

The transcript printed in The Sun records the alleged exchange between the pilots after they realize what has happened.

Pilot 1: "I'm going to be sick."

Pilot 2: "Ah f---."

Pilot 1: "Did you hear?"

Pilot 2: "Yeah, this sucks."

Pilot 1: "We're in jail, dude."

The other pilot then weeps, according to the transcript.

"There has never been any intention to deliberately deceive or mislead Lance Corporal Horse Hull's family," the defense statement said.

The ministry said when army told the family the findings of its investigation, "we did inform them that some classified material had been withheld, but we did not specify its exact nature."

The coroner investigating Hull's death has adjourned the inquest until Feb. 16.

A U.S. Air Force official conducted its own investigation into the incident in 2003, but the results of that investigation were not publicly released, said Lt. Tony Vincelli, spokesman for the Boise, Idaho-based 190th Fighter Squadron, where the A-10 jets are based.

The investigation did not result in a court-martial. Vincelli did not identify the pilots involved.

It is unclear whether the video will be shown at the inquest.

"It is in the public domain, there's no dispute of that is there? It's all over the television," said Geoff Webb, a coroner's court official.

I heard about this on the radio this morning. I am always sad at the loss of life, but war sucks and this happens sometimes. Their excitement was during the heat of battle and this paper makes it seem like they almost knew it was British forces down there. I wonder how many British pilots say/said similar things when attacking insurgents or taliban? They did mess up though and didn't verify both on the radio and with their own eyes at the targets. In a war with unmatched air superiority this deff shouldn't have happened. But it was an error during war and the 2 guys after realizing what had just happened saying they were going to jail were thinking about themselves first. I am sure after what occured sunk in they felt terrible at killing friendlies.
According to what I have heard the US military was deciding to make this declassified when it was leaked. I do think they need to be diciplined for sure for this. If the information in this article is true they seem hell bent on attacking when all the information and directions weren't followed.

I seem to remember in Desert Storm a few incidents similar to this and all of them involved A-10's as well. I wonder if this is just b/c A-10's give most of the close air support, or something with the planes themselves? Also I think the A-10 is flown now mostly by National Guard and Reserve pilots. Maybe in-experience is the main factor?

The same thing happenned to Pat Tillman........................

Army Spun Tale Around Ill-Fated Mission

By Steve Coll
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, December 6, 2004; Page A01

Second in a two-part series.

Just days after Pat Tillman died from friendly fire on a desolate ridge in southeastern Afghanistan, the U.S. Army Special Operations Command released a brief account of his last moments.

The April 30, 2004, statement awarded Tillman a posthumous Silver Star for combat valor and described how a section of his Ranger platoon came under attack.

Sen. John McCain said he would have liked to have known about officers' suspicions before he spoke publicly about Pat Tillman's death.

_____The Official Story_____

• U.S. Army officials waited for weeks before informing Pat Tillman's family that he was accidentally killed by fellow Army rangers.

"He ordered his team to dismount and then maneuvered the Rangers up a hill near the enemy's location," the release said. "As they crested the hill, Tillman directed his team into firing positions and personally provided suppressive fire. . . . Tillman's voice was heard issuing commands to take the fight to the enemy forces."

It was a stirring tale and fitting eulogy for the Army's most famous volunteer in the war on terrorism, a charismatic former pro football star whose reticence, courage and handsome beret-draped face captured for many Americans the best aspects of the country's post-Sept. 11 character.

It was also a distorted and incomplete narrative, according to dozens of internal Army documents obtained by The Washington Post that describe Tillman's death by fratricide after a chain of botched communications, a misguided order to divide his platoon over the objection of its leader and undisciplined firing by fellow Rangers.

The Army's public release made no mention of friendly fire, even though at the time it was issued, investigators in Afghanistan had already taken at least 14 sworn statements from Tillman's platoon members that made clear the true causes of his death. The statements included a searing account from the Ranger nearest Tillman during the firefight, who quoted him as shouting "Cease fire! Friendlies!" with his last breaths.

Army records show Tillman fought bravely during his final battle. He followed orders, never wavered and at one stage proposed discarding his heavy body armor, apparently because he wanted to charge a distant ridge occupied by the enemy, an idea his immediate superior rejected, witness statements show.

But the Army's published account not only withheld all evidence of fratricide, but also exaggerated Tillman's role and stripped his actions of their context. Tillman was not one of the senior commanders on the scene -- he directed only himself, one other Ranger and an Afghan militiaman, under supervision from others. And witness statements in the Army's files at the time of the news release describe Tillman's voice ringing out on the battlefield mainly in a desperate effort, joined by other Rangers on his ridge, to warn comrades to stop shooting at their own men.

The Army's April 30 news release was just one episode in a broader Army effort to manage the uncomfortable facts of Pat Tillman's death, according to internal records and interviews.

During several weeks of memorials and commemorations that followed Tillman's death, commanders at his 75th Ranger Regiment and their superiors hid the truth about friendly fire from Tillman's brother Kevin, who had fought with Pat in the same platoon, but was not involved in the firing incident and did not know the cause of his brother's death. Commanders also withheld the facts from Tillman's widow, his parents, national politicians and the public, according to records and interviews with sources involved in the case.

On May 3, Ranger and Army officers joined hundreds of mourners at a public ceremony in San Jose, where Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), Denver Broncos quarterback Jake Plummer and Maria Shriver took the podium to remember Tillman. The visiting officers gave no hint of the evidence investigators had collected in Afghanistan.

In a telephone interview, McCain said: "I think it would have been helpful to have at least their suspicions known" before he spoke publicly about Tillman's death. Even more, he said, "the family deserved some kind of heads-up that there would be questions."

McCain said yesterday that questions raised by Mary Tillman, Pat's mother, about how the Army handled the case led him to meet twice earlier this fall with Army officers and former acting Army secretary Les Brownlee to seek answers. About a month ago, McCain said, Brownlee told him that the Pentagon would reopen its investigation. McCain said that he was not certain about the scope of the new investigation but that he believed it is continuing. A Pentagon official confirmed that an investigation is underway, but Army spokesmen declined to comment further.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37679-2004Dec5.html

There's three more pages to the article if you care to read it.

I just watched the video, you don't see a whole lot but you get to hear the communication between the two A-10s and what seems to be some sort of ground command. The A-10 that the video is shown from, its pilot seems to reluctant to fire on the vehicles at first but the other pilot thinks they are enemy vehicles and the ground command(?) says there are no friendlies in that area. Eventually the 2nd pilot says the vehicles look to be rocket launchers so pilot 1 checks again with ground command and again he is told there are no friendlies in the area, both pilots then strafe the vehicles twice, then ground command informs them that there are friendlies in the area and to abort. Pilot 1 then asks for info on damages and they are told 1 killed and 1 wounded. You then hear the pilots cussing at themselves and later on one crying as they head back to base.

Seems to me that ground command is at much to blame in this as the pilots.

If you can, watch the video.

Very sad.

Stuff like this happens in war. You can expect these things to happen and you can expect the military to try and keep it quiet. Nothing new in this at all. Unfortunate is the only way to describe it.

You're 100% correct. All wars have friendly fire and collateral damage casualties. It's just a fact of war. Some deny it,some trivialze it and some try to cover it up. But every war has its share of it.

War is a very serious thing. Not something to be entered into half cocked with accusations and suspicians,but with fact based reasoning and on a "needs" basis.