DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum College Basketball!

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(no player was caught or accused of any wrong-doing

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Same with Cal. He's never been caught or accused of any wrong doing

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I love your enthusiasm for Kentucky basketball, but to say that John Calipari has never been caught or accused of any wrong doing is like saying that Pete Rose didn't know he wasn't allowed to bet on baseball.

Your wink at the end of that post denotes that you understand the reach of a statement that was.

I currently attend an A-10 school and work with a team in the conference. I know many, many UMass fans. Tell them he's never been accused or caught of any wrong doing.

Tell Memphis' Final Four team that.

Look, you can argue that even though the wins were vacated, he never personally got in trouble. But that doesn't even matter. He left BOTH programs in HORRENDOUS shape. You're lucky that Kentucky probably will be his last stop, or you'd go from supreme optimism to profound disgust in a matter of a few years.

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What a monumental choke job by Clemson... this thing should be over. and Wisconsin looks good but it's early.

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The UMASS situation, was nothing more than Cal looking the other way while a booster handed Camby money. It happens everywhere, with every coach, and you're foolish if you don't think so. But, he was wrong. They got caught. Not much more to it than that.

The Memphis situation is complete BS to me. I think Memphis should win their appeal and not be forced to vacate anything.

Is a coach supposed to go with the kid to take his SAT? Is he supposed to fly to the kids hometown and make sure it's really him?

Rose was cleared to play by the NCAA Clearing House! Unless they can prove that Memphis and/or Cal told Rose to get someone else to take his SAT, I don't see how Memphis did anything wrong.

The only way the NCAA is EVER going to keep problems like this from coming up is to have set locations for these kids to go take their SAT's. They need to have it set up, with NCAA officials.

They can do it like they do the NCAA Tournament. Have a West, East, Midwest, and South region. Fly all these kids who are going to play a sport in college to one of these destinations, monitored by NCAA officials.

That's the ONLY way you can keep things like that from happening. And you certaintely should not be able to hold a school accountable for something like Rose did, when he was CLEARED TO PLAY by the NCAA Clearing House.

That whole situation makes the NCAA look bad, IMO.

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i have never understood boosters giving players $$$....

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I will NEVER buy the argument that there's a single clean program, at least in Division 1 basketball. Never.

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And the reason that it's always the small schools getting caught is because they don't have the compliance departments that the bigger schools have. Which is why I'm not worried about Cal at UK.

Sandy Bell is the best in the country at her job. And by that, I don't mean that she makes sure we're always in compliance, I mean that she makes sure everyone thinks we're in compliance. If you look it up, she's widely regarded as the best in the business.

As long as she's in charge, I'm comfortable with anyone we hire.

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Ummmm ... the reason its the small schools getting caught is because they don't have the financial resources to deal with an NCAA punishment like a bigger school has.

Look at Ohio State after Jim O'Brien. Didn't take them long to recover and get back to the top ranks of college basketball, did it? Their situation was WORSE than ours. But we're seven years and just reaching the end of our recovery period.

What a weak argument. It has nothing to do with the compliance officer, or how strong of a compliance department each school has.

How could Sandy Bell make people THINK Kentucky is always in compliance? Are you seriously that ignorant to think the NCAA just asks Bell how everything is doing, or asks her for a detailed report, and then they are fine with it?

They have people that go well within the program, far past what a compliance officer could provide to them. Sandy Bell means nothing when the NCAA looks at Kentucky football or basketball. Absolutely nothing. I promise you.

You need to trust me on this, because, as I stated earlier, I work for a Division-I basketball program. If you honestly believe the success or failure of making the NCAA believe everything is alright is based on the compliance department, you need to seriously re-evaluate the way you're looking at the situation. The NCAA could care less about the compliance dept. They go straight to the program, straight to the coaches, players and boosters themselves. They don't put ANY stock in what a compliance officer may say, unless the officer comes out and admits that the school is doing something wrong.

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I don't care who you work for, honestly. You'll never convince me any program is clean. Period.

And if compliance officers don't mean anything, why do schools even have them?

Sandy Bell knows what she's doing to keep certain things hidden, and you know that as well as I do.

But, I bet your school is the one clean program in the country

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Yes, that's exactly what I said. My program is the one clean program in the country. Good job on the excellent reading there, topdawg.

And who said compliance officers didn't mean anything? I simply said that they aren't the sole reason that larger programs get away with things,and smaller programs always get caught. You know the real reason is financial resources, as do I. Compliance officers exist to alert athletic directors when coaches are out of line. Then the program can take the necessary steps to either stop that. In many athletic departments, this isn't an issue. They still break the rules, and don't really care about it.

I'm not going to sit here and argue with you about your position that there isn't a single clean college basketball program out of the over 300 in the nation. That's your opinion, but I'm just telling you that you're dead wrong, for the reasons that I stated above. Obviously, you didn't argue with any of those reasons, because you know that I'm right.

I have far more connections in college basketball than you do. That's not to brag, or be grandiose, but it's to prove that I intimately know the game. I work in it. I see it day in and day out. I hear many stories about many programs, from very credible people. So I know there are a number of clean programs ... whether or not you want to believe that is something I could seriously care less about. I'm just trying to tell you the way it really is, compared to the way you think it is. That's all.

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It took us six years to recover, and we are one of the most storied college basketball programs in history,

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I can't believe I didn't pick up on this the first time I read your post.

You don't really believe this do you?

5 tournament appearances, and 1 Final Four.

That puts you in the same class as schools like....

Drake, George Mason, Santa Clara, Witchita State, Wyoming.

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I have far more connections in college basketball than you do.

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It took us six years to recover, and we are one of the most storied college basketball programs in history,

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I can't believe I didn't pick up on this the first time I read your post.

You don't really believe this do you?

5 tournament appearances, and 1 Final Four.

That puts you in the same class as schools like....

Drake, George Mason, Santa Clara, Witchita State, Wyoming.

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Hahahaha. With a $1 million operating budget, no it doesn't. With 1,900 undergraduate students competing in the Atlantic-10 Conference, no it doesn't.

When we play in the OLEAN, NY market, competing against schools from the following regions on a yearly basis:

1. New York City
2. Philadelphia (three schools)
3. Charlotte
4. St. Louis
5. Dayton
6. Cincinnati
7. Amherst, Mass.
8. Pittsburgh
9. The entire state of Rhode Island
10. Washington, D.C.

.... no it doesn't.

When we've sent over 10 players to the NBA, including Hall-of-Famer Bob Lanier, no it doesn't.

Oh, and I love how you conveniently left out my statement RIGHT AFTER THE QUOTE, when I said, "especially for a small, private school in a highly competitive conference."

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I have far more connections in college basketball than you do.

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I'm sure you do. But, I do know how things work. Especially at big schools. I have a few connections myself.

Notice I'm not saying every coach pays players or recruits or whatever. But, are you going to sit there and tell me that all of your basketball players go to class, and do the same work, and get graded on the same scale as everyone else?

I don't buy it. Sorry.

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You don't have to keep saying sorry ... like I said earlier, I really care less about what you think. I'm just trying to debunk the awful perception that you keep putting on this board.

So, we've gone to talking about booster money and complying with NCAA rules to players attending class and getting the same grades as regular students. Interesting.

It would be impossible to know how players are graded, and if they are graded differently. And, yes, sometimes players miss class, because, you know, they're on the road playing basketball.

Here's what I'll say again: Our program complies with all of the rules set before us by the NCAA. There ARE other programs that do the same.

That's the bottom line here. We have academic standards, and our players wouldn't be here if they couldn't meet those standards. How they are graded when they get here is impossible to know, as I said.

But our current best player, who is an NBA prospect right now and was A-10 Rookie of the Year last year, holds a 3.7 GPA in a duel-major program between Chemistry and Biology.

Not every college coach is a crook, not every college booster is bad, and not every college player is dumb. Sorry.

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You've done alright for a small school. But come on, "one of the most storied programs in college basketball".

That has nothing to do with your size, or location. You are not one of the most storied programs in college basketball.

Even you have to know that.

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I will NEVER buy the argument that there's a single clean program, at least in Division 1 basketball. Never.

Same goes with football.

The coaches themselves might be good guys. Hell, by all accounts, Cal is a "good guy". That doesn't meant the boosters are good guys.

And I'm sure every coach does tell recruits "Don't accept any gifts". Which probably comes with one of these at the end of the speech

And the reason that it's always the small schools getting caught is because they don't have the compliance departments that the bigger schools have. Which is why I'm not worried about Cal at UK.

Sandy Bell is the best in the country at her job. And by that, I don't mean that she makes sure we're always in compliance, I mean that she makes sure everyone thinks we're in compliance. If you look it up, she's widely regarded as the best in the business.

As long as she's in charge, I'm comfortable with anyone we hire.

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What a glowing endorsement.. you are comfortable with any potential scumbag UK hires to coach basketball because your compliance officer is magnificent at covering things up...

No wonder you are so proud.

I don't buy the "everybody does it" argument.. sorry, I just don't.

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Okay, then it was a simple gramatical error on your part. Had you said "We are one of the most storied small, private schools", instead of "We are one of the most storied programs in college basketball.... Especially for a small, private school", then perhaps I could have agreed with you.

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Fine, I'll maybe agree that small schools like St. Bonaventure might not do it. *Though I still believe the majority do.

But, Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, UNC, Ohio State, Louisville, Villanova, Texas, Michigan State, and yes, even Maryland, do it.

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Most of the smaller programs don't do it

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Most of the smaller programs don't do it

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I still say MOST of the smaller programs do it. At least the ones that compete on a national level.

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Fine, I'll maybe agree that small schools like St. Bonaventure might not do it. *Though I still believe the majority do.

But, Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, UNC, Ohio State, Louisville, Villanova, Texas, Michigan State, and yes, even Maryland, do it.

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i have never understood boosters giving players $$$....

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Really?

Frankly, they deserve it. And then some.

The 'well, they get a free education' argument doesn't fly with me...yes, it is a rather big favor...but depending the school...how big of a favor? $100,000? $300,000?

Depending on the school...those players are generating so much more revenue than that...especially the blue chips.

A devastating injury or a flop in the NBA have high percentages...get paid.

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I'm simply saying they are all guilty of major NCAA violations.

Whether it's leaving a gymbag of money with a recruit, or it's players who don't have to attend class, etc.

Watch the movie Blue Chips. I bet that movie is real close to what actually happens at big time schools.

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I'm simply saying they are all guilty of major NCAA violations.

Whether it's leaving a gymbag of money with a recruit, or it's players who don't have to attend class, etc.

Watch the movie Blue Chips. I bet that movie is real close to what actually happens at big time schools.

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I prefer 'He Got Game'

but you also are including the small schools that compete on the national level....do you really think schools like Butler (who take players noone else thinks are good enough) or Portland (just beat UCLA) or St. Mary's do this?

I mean...it's hard to single out schools...because I would guarantee there are bad eggs at every level....but to say 'most' do it...even at the smaller schools....that's the tough sell.

also, if teams like Iowa and Washington State and Nebraska are doing this....they really need to find better boosters

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I think you missed the point of my post.....I said I don't understand why boosters give $$ to their own players because when they are caught it hurts their own program.

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That's kind of like 'why did the guy rob the bank?' ... I don't think they intend to get caught.