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Mort just said before the Monday night game that WKYC in Cleveland is reporting that Kokinis has officially been fired.
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Many fans didn't bother asking why all of our free agents were former Jets and virtually all of our dealings were with the Jets
Kinda made me wonder if he was compensating the Jets for something . . . . or helping them unload people . . . kinda like a favor. . .
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Many fans didn't bother asking why all of our free agents were former Jets and virtually all of our dealings were with the Jets
Muni, that's been brought up constantly here... all the time.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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The only one I can even think of that is relatively close is when the Dolphins fired Cam Cameron after his first season was over
I'm a Fins fan and have been a silent lurker on this board for quite some time (due to Django telling me that this was a good place to read some quality Browns stuff) - and that's exactly what I was reminded of when I read the news. It's Mueller and Cameron Reloaded.
Actually, I've just told Django that if I was Lerner, I'm on the phone with Bill Parcells this minute. Not because I'm a Miami fan or a Parcells fanboy but because a guy like Parcells is exactly what this team needs. I look at the Browns, I see a team lacking a blueprint. I don't see size, I don't see speed. I don't see the fundamental athletic ability to compete in the NFL. Mangini and Kokinis, like Cam Cameron and Randy Mueller, compromised size and speed for players that fit the bill in terms of character and scheme. The Browns, however, may well be the slowest team in the NFL today and boy does it show.
This is not meant as a "haha, we're better than you" post. Quite the contrary. I do know the pain of going through this mess. I just think this whole roster needs a Parcells style rebuilding. It needs to get bigger, faster and more athletic and I don't think Mangini is the guy to make it happen.
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I'm glad it has. - I brought it up last offseason and was chastised for it. - Just like I was chastised on draft day for noting how disgusted I was.
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I like this move. Kokinis was nothing, and that is more than apparent now. Mangini is running the whole show. IMO Lerner didn't want to fire Mangini in the middle of the season. If he did it would not help the team now. If Kokinis was really fired, that makes me think that Lerner is tired of the way things are being done. This "consultant" could be the new GM or president. Hiring them now is smart. It will give them the rest of the season to evaluate the process Mangini is running. IMO it also lets Mangini know that his time as top dog is over. He will have to answer to a GM, which is what should have been set up in the first place. If a new GM or president is hired, they will be in charge of the team, not Mangini. Thus if they see fit to fire Mangini at the end of the year they will  Many wanted Lerner to prove to the fans that he cares, I see this as his first move.
#gmstrong
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Kokopuffs didnt know BE was a Jet until he saw it on the news lol
Just heard that on NFL Network. How disfunctional is this team when your GM doesn't know your number one WR has been traded until seeing it on ESPN?
If this is the case there's something reeaaallly wrong here!
That's nauseating.
What in the hell is going on?
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I wonder what Eotab will have say about this
he was big on kokinis and mangini from the start
maybe diam will show up
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Well, this is a start. I'd still like to see Daboll gone before the end of the bye.
I thought that comment about him not knowing about Braylon was a joke as well. Ridiculous.
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MARTYBALL!!!! 
Heard the same thing on NFL Network, that kok didn't know of the trade until he saw it on the news, which is very bad communication. One of my biggest beefs with mangini. He doesn't have to go into detail on what we are doing, or who we will draft or sign, but give more than a general bs of what a football player should be. We (or most on here  ) know what a football player should be and as loyal fans we know what we want. We don't always agree but we do know more about the game than given credit by mangini.
As to 'Martyball', please no. He is/was a helluva coach, but he couldn't draft players any worse than if he had a blind busdriver picking names out of a hat. So unless he is going to be the coach, and only the coach then OK, but not as GM, I don't trust his 'mad dog in meat market' picks.
Statistics are like a bikini; what they show is interesting, but what they hide is vital.
Drive for show (1st round), Putt for dough (rest of draft).
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Seriously, Kokinis didn't know about the Braylon trade?!
What the hell?!
If there was any doubt, Mangini needs to be fired now for basically acting like the dictator of Cleveland.
I hate Eric Mangini.
you had a good run Hank.
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Kokinis escorted out of building in Cleveland  that's a start
Last edited by moxdawg; 11/02/09 09:38 PM.
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
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Kokopuffs didnt know BE was a Jet until he saw it on the news lol
Just heard that on NFL Network. How disfunctional is this team when your GM doesn't know your number one WR has been traded until seeing it on ESPN?
If this is the case there's something reeaaallly wrong here!
That's nauseating.
What in the hell is going on?
Can anybody else not help but laugh at this crap anymore? I've gone so far beyond the edge of insanity because of this team. 
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Reports are that Kokinis asked out as soon as the Brown and Orange scrimmage. He was that miserable.
What a nightmare...what a ... nightmare.
you had a good run Hank.
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Reports are that Kokinis asked out as soon as the Brown and Orange scrimmage. He was that miserable.
Wow, that's unbelievable.
Did Mangini simply discard Kokinis's opinion and lead Kok to believe he was a GM in name only? What the hell is wrong with this team???? 
gmstrong -----------------
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Reports are that Kokinis asked out as soon as the Brown and Orange scrimmage. He was that miserable.
Wow, that's unbelievable.
Did Mangini simply discard Kokinis's opinion and lead Kok to believe he was a GM in name only? What the hell is wrong with this team????
The simple answer is that Mangini used Kok as a puppet.
Literally, I don't think Kokinis signed one FA or drafted one player.
you had a good run Hank.
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I'm actually not getting all the hate...
This was an excellent step in the right direction. It looks like Lerner is owning up to a mistake early as opposed to letting another horrible coach GM combo set us back. He understands he needs to bring in a football guy, and as bad as this year is I'm glad it happened if it showed Lerner he isn't capable of making football decisions.
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I think a few valid things need to be thrown out into the open here:
First, if you've spent any time watching or reading Mangini's press conferences, you know that every decision was his. Every one. Because when discussing such decisions, Mangini used the phrase " I" much more than "we."
Secondly, as I've posted several times since last night, I thought it was very odd that Lerner called out Kokinis in his conference with reporters after the game. This led me to believe that he either was unhappy with Kokinis' role with the team, or he wanted him to take up an even bigger role. Now we know the former is true.
I don't think Kokinis was a buffer between Mangini and Lerner. Mangini raves all the time about how he talks to Randy "every day." But if that were true, why did Lerner say that he "hasn't been told a thing" about why DA continues to start?
This situation just took a giant leap into some crazy territory. None of what anyone is saying is adding up......
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Can we get that guy who managed the Rockies into the postseason? That guy was an excellent mid-season replacement!
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/GmuEd.gif) "One man's Bum is another man's Hobo" - Waterdawg
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I'm actually not getting all the hate...
This was an excellent step in the right direction. It looks like Lerner is owning up to a mistake early as opposed to letting another horrible coach GM combo set us back. He understands he needs to bring in a football guy, and as bad as this year is I'm glad it happened if it showed Lerner he isn't capable of making football decisions.
I'm happy that Lerner had the balls to fire a GM 8 games into the season.
I'm really pissed at how Mangini basically maneuvered his way into complete power while lying to the fans and the owner.
I don't see anyway that Lerner can trust Mangini to coach this team.
you had a good run Hank.
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I hope Lerner cleans it out from top to bottom. I pray right now he's on the phone, opening the checkbook to guys like Parcells or Cowher, anyone with a clue.
gmstrong -----------------
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There are alot of quality football guys out there right now; but will any of them want to come to this mess right now.
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There are alot of quality football guys out there right now; but will any of them want to come to this mess right now.
Haha of course....if the price is right. And by right I mean extraordinarily generous.
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Reports are that Kokinis asked out as soon as the Brown and Orange scrimmage. He was that miserable.
Two things:
1) IF this is true it would explain his lack of participation....if you want to get fired do nothing. Yet, he could of quit too, no? The money was too easy?
2) IF this is true, then most certainly this entire debacle is on Mangini!
I will be shocked if Mangini gets another year. Hell, he has already stated that he is sticking with Daboll! 
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Mary Kay Cabot just said this in a story on the PD site (not sure I believe it to be the truth): Quote:
Kokinis, who had final say on the 53-man roster, had 18 years' NFL experience, including 13 with the Ravens.
gmstrong -----------------
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I wonder now if Mangini will have the final or only say on whether Daboll stays or goes or who starts at qb and on and on.
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Reports are that Kokinis asked out as soon as the Brown and Orange scrimmage. He was that miserable.
Two things:
1) IF this is true it would explain his lack of participation....if you want to get fired do nothing. Yet, he could of quit too, no? The money was too easy?
2) IF this is true, then most certainly this entire debacle is on Mangini!
I will be shocked if Mangini gets another year. Hell, he has already stated that he is sticking with Daboll!
Ya this whole debacle certainly outs Mangini as a tyrannical football dictator who has systematically consolidated power within the organization. Definitely changes my opinion of him. I think his time is much more apparently limted in Cleveland than it has been at any period before, especially if some other big name is hired to take over large swaths of franchise operations. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to know with any type of large hire like the kind that we now expect there will be a organization power struggle. And given Mangini's current predicament, hell probably lose and be shown the door.
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thing is, if Kokinis controlled the 53-man roster, why didn't he know BE was being traded? It's one or the other...
gmstrong -----------------
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I have to give to Jammies.
Even though he has embarrassed the whole city he at least has enough conviction to get rid of his mistakes. Mangini will never make it to the end of the season. In fact, I expect he will resign before he lets Randy hire anybody not selected by him. Get ready folks, this season is just getting started.
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thing is, if Kokinis controlled the 53-man roster, why didn't he know BE was being traded? It's one or the other...
I don't believe for one second that Kokinis had final say on the 53 man roster.
you had a good run Hank.
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j/c
Why do the majority of posters giver Lerner a pass?
If all of this is going on behind the scenes, and we just got through TWO situations in which this just happened (one person making all the decisions), then Lerner needs to be held accountable. He is more then just a check signer. He's the CEO....he needs to know what is going on day-to-day, week-to-week with his business and that includes making sure there is a relationship working between the two most important people in the organization.
Now this is the 3rd time in 5 years that this has happened. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, and I don't really care what's going on!....Honestly....this guy is a joke.
And everyone's going to be happy when he announces in the next day or two his next hair brain hire. Yeah, it will be exciting because there is nothing else to look forward to but it is probably going to be the wrong decision. Besides Al Davis, he may be the worst owner in the league. Writing checks is only one part of the equation. People give him way too much credit for that. It's not his money, he got it from daddy when he died. He's also probably making a crap load even when we suck so who cares if he pays $5M here or $10M there....it's pocket change.
People need to start seeing the real problem. Yes, Mangini is an idiot....but there's a bigger idiot owning and running this team. God I pray that he gets lucky and does something good, but I have no confidence....
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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thing is, if Kokinis controlled the 53-man roster, why didn't he know BE was being traded? It's one or the other...
I don't believe for one second that Kokinis had final say on the 53 man roster.
Me neither.
gmstrong -----------------
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Why do the majority of posters giver Lerner a pass?
Because he has the checkbook,....
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Reports are that Kokinis asked out as soon as the Brown and Orange scrimmage. He was that miserable.
Two things:
1) IF this is true it would explain his lack of participation....if you want to get fired do nothing. Yet, he could of quit too, no? The money was too easy?
2) IF this is true, then most certainly this entire debacle is on Mangini!
I will be shocked if Mangini gets another year. Hell, he has already stated that he is sticking with Daboll!
Ya this whole debacle certainly outs Mangini as a tyrannical football dictator who has systematically consolidated power within the organization. Definitely changes my opinion of him. I think his time is much more apparently limted in Cleveland than it has been at any period before, especially if some other big name is hired to take over large swaths of franchise operations. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to know with any type of large hire like the kind that we now expect there will be a organization power struggle. And given Mangini's current predicament, hell probably lose and be shown the door.
Nope, it doesn't. It means the Browns were AWOL were in the front office which is a VERY big deal, with a guy that didn't care.
Remember, it was Accorsi who pushed for BOTH Mangini and Koko. My theory is different. My take is that Mangini had to take more authority than he wanted because of Koko's behavior. I also think it caused some serious confusion and disorganization top to bottom with the team. My guess is Mangini demanded Koko's departure and asked for Accorsi to get his old ass in here to straighten things around. Koko's Mangini's pick? BS. It was Accorsi's because that was who was advising Lerner.
What a mess Randy. I feel bad for Mangini, because he takes the flack for Randy's mistakes.
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So?
Again, what does that mean? He writes horrible checks? Great....wake up people
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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So?
Again, what does that mean? He writes horrible checks? Great....wake up people
So how do you propose you fix the problem that our owner doesn't know how to hire front office people.
It's a problem that has no solution other than to hope Lerner finds the right guy. No point in bitching about something you cannot change.
you had a good run Hank.
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Who do you guys think will replace him? I have heard Ernie Accorsi's name pop up a few times. I wonder if he would be interested.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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Randy Lerner is to Browns GM's what Steinbrenner was to managers.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kokinis escorted out of building
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