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Quote:
Not saying anything against Meyer at all,, But I think I want an experienced NFL Coach leading this team...
We have an experienced head coach leading this team right now ... right into the friggin' ground.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
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Not saying anything against Meyer at all,, But I think I want an experienced NFL Coach leading this team...
We have an experienced head coach leading this team right now ... right into the friggin' ground.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This.
That said, I wonder if Chris Polian and Kyle Shanahan could work together. I think that duo has tons of potential.
Last edited by Ammo; 11/08/09 01:21 PM.
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You're right that Wolf hasn't done anything for several years. But I don't think him being 71 is a positive or negative. Bill Parcells is 68.
I would be worried about a head coach being that old. But the president wouldn't have to work as long of hours.
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Holmgren is a no brainer, he'll get a compitent HC in here....and since he's the former boss of so many potential HC's out there, this organization will actually work as a team.
I'd be very happy with Holmgren as the president/a few personel people/Gruden.
I would still be shocked if Holmgren takes the gig.
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Holmgren pres wolf gm Mooch HC i could live with that
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Lerner has no plans right now to do away with his head coach, Eric Mangini.
Until the new person in power suggests he do so. 
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Quote:
We have an experienced head coach leading this team right now ... right into the friggin' ground.
yeah, and we've had a college coach run it into the ground also,, what's your point.. I want an experienced NFL Coach... That's all I'm saying...
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Lerner has no plans right now to do away with his head coach, Eric Mangini.
Until the new person in power suggests he do so.
Thats what Im hoping for. Unless Mangini sits down with Holgreen to share his vision and Holgreen agrees with it and gives him a year.
Id be down with Holmgreen. Since someone already stated the Parcells comparison I would agree with the similarities. Miami was having dysfucntion when saban left after one year, they brought in Cam Cameron the the next, then brought in Parcells. Holmgreen and Parcells both had continued and consistant success. Homgreen knows what type of college players that can come in and succeed at the next level. If Mangini plays Holmgreens players because they didnt do good on one of his quizes is something I would be worried about but Mangini would lose that power struggle. Lerner lets too many power struggles happen. With Savage and whoever that guy was that resigned. Then Savage and Crennel and now Mangini and Kokinis. Does lerner allow this to happen. Does he like employees that stab each other in the back and come running to him and say " hey boss, guess what so and so said about you"? " Im doing this and they wont listen to me and thats whats best for the team. Not paying Quinn to lose anyway is whats best for the team in the long run. Kokinis dont know this because he was never in my shoes and never coached before. I know more than him because I worked under Belicheck and this is how he does it" Its not like Mangini doesnt have a history of being a tattle tale to get his way. Id rather people gain success with respect, hard work and lead by example, not stabbing people in the back to get your way. Not saying Mangini dont work hard, but I think he would throw anyone under the bus to do whats best for him and him only. He has done it in NY and Cleveland. I wouldnt doubt if he did it in Cleveland his first time around and in New England. "Hey coach, so and so said they didnt want to put ice in the Gatoraid so I did it for him even though its his responsibility and I knew that the players needed ice."
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I can't see Holmgren coming here and keeping Mangini around. What do the two have in common as far as philososphy?? I see nothing. Mangini is a defensive guy that runs the 3-4. Every Holmgren team ran the 4-3. Holmgren is a West Coast guy, something Mangini knows little about, even though he tries to immitate it. Then you get into the personalities?? I just don't see it.
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Reach out to him with a fistful of cash!!!
You're paying doofuses right now whom you picked, stop the insanity here and now. Holmgrens chances of working out are good.
Get it done and fade away Randy.
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Legend
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I haven't seen anyone mention this...
Everyone is talking about what Holmgren would bring to our offense.
But what about our defense? In Green Bay and Seattle Holmgren ran a 4-3 defense. All of the other guys mentioned have also always ran a 4-3.
I know some will be happy if we switch to a 4-3. Our personnel right now supports defense.
With a 4-3:
DE's: Wimbley, Hall, Bowens, Veikune, Trusnik
DT's: Rogers, Williams, Smith, Rubin
OLB's: Maiava, Jackson.
MLB: Barton
What do you guys think?
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Matters not to me. Holmgrens team were hard nosed, cold weather teams in GB. He fits here nicely.
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Holmgren .. if he came here .. would be the team President. He wouldn't be implementing his preferred offense/defense. That's not the role of a President. That's the role of a GM and/or Head Coach.
What he would do is hire a competent GM .... and a compatable Head Coach .... (and don't discount Mangini being that guy) and working to establish an environment that can win. He would be the moderator/tie breaker in the event that there is a disagreement between the 2 sides of football operations.
The role of the Presdient is not to design plays .... it is to design a system that wins.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Holmgren .. if he came here .. would be the team President. He wouldn't be implementing his preferred offense/defense. That's not the role of a President. That's the role of a GM and/or Head Coach.
What he would do is hire a competent GM .... and a compatable Head Coach .... (and don't discount Mangini being that guy) and working to establish an environment that can win. He would be the moderator/tie breaker in the event that there is a disagreement between the 2 sides of football operations.
The role of the Presdient is not to design plays .... it is to design a system that wins.
He might not be the coach or Gm, but he's definitely going to get guys that share his vision. When Parcells hired Sporano, and the GM, he had a previous working relationship with both.
Last time I looked the dolphins still run the 3-4, a mark of Bill Parcells.
Holmgren will hire guys that will share his vision on and off the field. I don't think Mangini is that guy.
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
We have an experienced head coach leading this team right now ... right into the friggin' ground.
yeah, and we've had a college coach run it into the ground also,, what's your point.. I want an experienced NFL Coach... That's all I'm saying...
My point is I don't understand why you would take that stance. We've seen just about every combination fail here. After that evidence, don't know why you have to have an experienced head coach.
Hey, to each their own.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I'd at least like a coach NOT picked by Randy Lerner!!!! 
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Holmgren wouldnt be just hiring a gm and coach. It is installing a core football philosophy. This keeps the GM finding players that fit the philosophy and scheme. You have coaches coming up that share your philosophy and use a similar playbook with their own tweaks.
Say your headcoach moves on to another job where he has more control. Its no big deal because you can promote to fill the void. If the Pres decides to retire, you have the HC and GM ready to take another step up the later and keep what was started going.
Its longterm success.
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Wolf is 71 hasnt done anything in football in like 7 or 8 years. Accorsi doesnt want it. McKay isnt going anywhere.
Holmgreen is the right fit.
I mentioned this in the other thread (probably should have gone here instead).
Wolf will be 72 next year, and has shown repeatedly he wants nothing to do with a full-time gig. He's simply too old to do the job right.
Holmgren would be my guy because of his affinity towards the WCO, an offense I've pined for year after year. He knows his stuff, and doesn't put up with anything.
On a side note, none of the people listed have any ties that would connect to Mangini. He'll get the rest of the year because firing him now does nothing for the team, but after that, he's a dead-man walking........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
My point is I don't understand why you would take that stance.
The good news is, you don't have to understand it.. It's what I would prefer because I think that's the better answer.. that's why... any questons?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I was bored this morning and did some research. I wrote this and figured I would post it here as well...
Holmgren has been involved in every facet of team building and coaching which is a huge positive. Holmgren started as Executive vice president/GM and head coach in Seattle in 1998. He was stripped of his VP and GM duties before the 2003 year started.
The Seahawks records during this time frame he was both a VP, GM and head coach
1998 (8-8) 1999 (9-7) 2000 (6-10) 2001 (9-7) 2002 (7-9) 5 seasons serving in this capacity with three seasons of .500 or better
After Holmgren was stripped of these duties VP and GM and was just a head coach
2003 (10-6) 2004 (9-7) 2005 (13-3) 2006 (9-7) 2007 (10-6) 2008 (4-12) 6 seasons as HC only with 5 winning seasons
The question is, was Holmgren's front office abilities diminished by also being the head coach during 1998-2002? Was his head coaching abilities diminished by being a GM? These things are hard to divorce and speculaate.
During his GM years he did draft quality players such as Ahman Green (1998) Shaun Alexander (2000) Darrell Jackson (2000)
Steve Hutchinson (2001) Ken Lucas (2001) and Rocky Bernard (2002). However he did have many draft blunders. The 1999 draft was a complete bust highlighted by the drafting of first round pick Lamar King.
During his time as a GM, Holmgren did show great insight in not wanting to pay Joey Galloway and instead traded him to Dallas in 2000, for 1st round selections in 2000 and 2001. Seattle used those picks on Shaun Alexander and Koren Robinson.
Holmgren was also able to secure his franchise quarterback early on in his tenure when he traded Seattle's first round selection (#10 overall) and a third round selection for Green Bay's first round selection(#17overall) and Matt Hasselbeck.
However not every trade Holmgren made was a good one. In 2001, Seattle traded Ahman Green and a fifth round pick to Green Bay for Fred Vinson and a sixth round pick.
What does all this mean? Holmgren is an interesting candidate for the Browns front office. He has the experience and knowledge of what is needed from a head coach for success, as he has won Super Bowls. However those Super Bowls were in Green Bay with Ron Wolf in charge of the roster.
Holmgren has experience being a general manager. However his time as a general manager was a mixed bag. He made quality moves such as aquiring Hasselbeck, but he did make big blunders such as trading away Ahman Green and wasting first round picks (Lamar King, Koren Robinson, Jerramy Stevens).
Lerner will have to determine if the positives outweight the negatives and compare Holmgren's credentials next to the other candidates. One of Holmgren's biggest positives is his age as he is only 61, whereas other candidates mentioned (Ernie Accorsi and Ron Wolf) are much older.
Would Holmgren even want to come to the Browns? Current Seahawks GM Tim Ruskell is in the final year of his contract. There are talks that Holmgren would go back to Seattle and replace Ruskell. Lerner would have to make Holmgren a more attractive offer.
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I still don't understand. Why again?
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Informative stuff. Much better than the finger-pointing going on with posters these days.
It would be nice to know the link where you pulled the info, though.  It looks like something off of Wiki.
Quote:
The question is, was Holmgren's front office abilities diminished by also being the head coach during 1998-2002? Was his head coaching abilities diminished by being a GM? These things are hard to divorce and speculaate.
It was widely believed he was simply spread too thin. To what extent really doesn't matter since the end result of separation was ultimately success.
Extending your examples, it's worthwhile to view how his draft picks ultimately ended up playing once he was simply a coach.
Successful picks included Todd Weiner, Floyd Womack, Maurice Morris, Heath Evans, and Rocky Bernard.
There's also no denying the blunders in Jerramy Stevens and Koren Robinson.
Something else to consider is that the Seahawks didn't have a winning season in the 7 full seasons before he got there.
Such things as cap management would be worth examining as well as offensive and defensive rankings during that time. While that would reflect more of his coaching ability than his GM duties, those duties do have to play a role.
Bottom line: Is Holmgren an historical homerun as a VP? Nope. Did he help turn around a franchise? Yup. Does he know how to produce a winner? Looks that way.
He doesn't have the track record of Accorsi or Wolfe, but he's probably more available.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Looking through the Packers Chronology and combining that with Davy's research, I came up with some interesting stuff - Holmgren was coach of the Packers from 1992 until he resigned to become VP/GM of Seattle in 1999. - Ron Wolf deserves a lot of this credit, but in 1992 and 1993, respectively, the Packers acquired Favre and Reggie White. - The Packers had a winning record EVERY year under Holmgren - 9-7, 9-7, 9-7, 11-5, 13-3, 13-3, 11-5. - Reached the Super Bowl twice (winning in 97, losing in 98) - Reached the playoffs a franchise record 6 consecutive years. When you look at Holmgren's record in both GB and Seattle, they were always balanced football teams - good defense and offense. Disciplined. Good QBs and running games. Knowing how to play in bad weather. Sign me up. Lerner - do it. Bring in the football mind and get out of the way. Holmgren has to be option 1. Floyd Reese is a distant #2.
Go Browns!!
RIP RK
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He's just such a good, morally upright Christian boy. He has to automatically be a good quarterback at the NFL level then, huh?  I like "leadership, intangibles, and strong character" as much as the next guy but in your logic please feel free at ANY moment to see how he would manage to run a pro-style offense and independently look at his passing ability and come to the rational conclusion that this guy isn't going to be a good NFL quarterback.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
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I'm strongly against Reese. His history with the cap is exceptionally poor, and he was the mastermind behind saddling the Titans with Vince Young.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Well the rest of the brain trust wanted Matt Leinart....lol...so one could say that was a wash. I agree with you though.............Holmgren really is the best choice by far imo.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Quote:
He's just such a good, morally upright Christian boy. He has to automatically be a good quarterback at the NFL level then, huh?
I like "leadership, intangibles, and strong character" as much as the next guy but in your logic please feel free at ANY moment to see how he would manage to run a pro-style offense and independently look at his passing ability and come to the rational conclusion that this guy isn't going to be a good NFL quarterback.
Every time Timmy Tebow completes a pass, an angel gets its wings.
I've never seen a guy so driven to succeed as him.
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I'm actually sick to my stomach. Too much love, dude. Snap out of it. 
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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I can't argue too hard against that, but he also put together a Super Bowl team and some pretty good defenses.
But, again, I'd sell out for Holmgren.
Go Browns!!
RIP RK
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Quote:
Quote:
He's just such a good, morally upright Christian boy. He has to automatically be a good quarterback at the NFL level then, huh?
I like "leadership, intangibles, and strong character" as much as the next guy but in your logic please feel free at ANY moment to see how he would manage to run a pro-style offense and independently look at his passing ability and come to the rational conclusion that this guy isn't going to be a good NFL quarterback.
Every time Timmy Tebow completes a pass, a puppy dies
fixed it for you
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Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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Quote:
I know some will be happy if we switch to a 4-3. Our personnel right now supports defense.
With a 4-3:
DE's: Wimbley, Hall, Bowens, Veikune, Trusnik
DT's: Rogers, Williams, Smith, Rubin
OLB's: Maiava, Jackson.
MLB: Barton
What do you guys think?
I've been wanting this for awhile. I'm tired of this team trying to run a defense that we obviously stink at! Corey Williams, DQ and Rogers would be monsters in the 4-3. It's easier to scout 4-3 talent. Wasn't the defense actually decent when we ran the 4-3?
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Holmgreen would be nice.. I think he would bring in Romeo Crennel... 
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put me in the 4-3 advocate column as well. Our personnel suits it better and IMO new personnel will be easier to find.
If Holmgren comes here would he support such a move?
Could Ryan adjust?
Would the WCO be implemented?, b/c Our personnel may be more suited to that too....
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Is it really that simple though - converting our line, for example, to a 4-3? Plus getting better production out of them? Seems we run a lot of 4-3 looks anyway, to me, at least.
I dunno.. sighs... we need some LBs.
Any defence works when you have the studs, IMO.
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Quote:
Quote:
My point is I don't understand why you would take that stance.
The good news is, you don't have to understand it..
I have a feeling that's been your objective with most of your posts since you've been here...that is, not having others understand them. I would say mission accomplished.
lamp, I'm not sure we run that many 4-3 looks, but I would like to see us commit to the 4-3. This goes back to a question I asked the board about Rogers awhile back. The response if I recall correctly was pretty much that he's a beast but possibly best suited for the 4-3. Why waste a talent like that? Williams has been a more productive player in that system as well. I think we'd be covered at the tackles. I don't think we have the ends, though. I'd like to hear some board feedback and opinions on if Wimbley could transition back to end and be successful in the pros.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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The main thing it does is it takes the line from playing two gap to one gap. We have guys like Rogers and Williams who have great burst. We have them today lined up directly over their OL counterparts. They need to control the two gaps on either side of the player they're lined up against. They need to read and then react and close down the gap as needed. They also need to keep the C and the Gs off the LBs to allow them to make plays as well. Basically it's wasting our best assets.
In a 43 one gap scheme you'll have Rogers and Williams trying to get in the backfield and disrupt as their main responsibility. They both can do that at a high level.
Add to that DQ is one of the best chase and tackle linebackers in the league. Put him at the WILL and he'll be a star. Today we have him at ILB playing "in the phone booth" and he's simply not big enough or strong enough to play effectively there.
This one move takes us from 32nd in the league to 20th. Today. We then use picks, trades and FA to complete the transition going in to 2010.
Hope that makes it clear.
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Held, see my post above yours. How do you feel about the ends?
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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