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Do you actually watch the games or just read about them? That's a serious question.
I have watched every game. DA looked average at best against Cincy and we should have scored 35 points.. even with the drops he looked awful against Buffalo.. the defense and the special teams looked great in both games...
yebat' Putin
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We BARELY won a game.  Not to take anything away from a W, but if not for that muffed punt by Roscoe, that game may have gone on to and through OT to end in a tie the way both teams were playing. It really was a game that came down to who made the biggest mistake. Luckily it was them.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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We BARELY won a game.
Not to take anything away from a W, but if not for that muffed punt by Roscoe, that game may have gone on to and through OT to end in a tie the way both teams were playing. It really was a game that came down to who made the biggest mistake. Luckily it was them.
Don Criqui has the most hilarious quote when the game was in the 3rd Quarter - "Tied at 3. Do you think this game is going to Overtime?"
I bet that was one of those days where he reconsidered his occupation. Seriously.
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*In Baker we trust*
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Your response is a perfect example of the focus being in the wrong place. You and so many others are so anti-DA that you are failing to see the point. It doesn't matter what DA's stats were, doesn't matter that he's still showing some of the same deficiencies he's always shown ... he's the better choice at QB, and the team is behind him.
But keep talking about his failed scoring opportunities or his 2/17 or his interceptions or whatever it is you are doing in an attempt to pump up BQ ... and the argument that he needs more time. Since BQ's play was so bad, that argument DOES NOT trump the fact that DA gives us the best chance to win and that's what the goal of the team is ... to win. Consequently, that's why DA's starting.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I'll throw my perspective out to you and Rishuz.. "D.A. brought that spark," said Jackson. "He can make every throw on that field. It's good knowing as a defensive player if you get your offense more than enough opportunities, they'll move the ball and create points."
Now..does the D need a spark from the QB or should they be creating their own spark?
The issue I have is that not whether he felt that the offense was on the field longer(which certainly helps a D) ..thats fine..but keep that to yo self  ..because he's a part of the D that can't get off the field on 3rd down consistantly against better offenses..and that had nothing to do with who's QB'ing..
His words are exposing a partiality to a particular QB and alienating the other one..the D doesn't need to be voicing who they prefer..it's no better than Edwards chirping about having to dive and lay out for balls(dissing DA) WHEN HE himself can't even catch one in the mitts.. 
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I think Brady cooked his goose with the Edwards shoes.
It's entirely possible. Young men can sometimes do foolish things without a thought as to the consequences.
At least Brady wore Braylon's shoes at practice... too bad Braylon couldn't seem to keep them on his own feet. Maybe if he had, last year's performance wouldn't have been so dreadful...
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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It doesn't matter what DA's stats were, doesn't matter that he's still showing some of the same deficiencies he's always shown
Doesn't matter? Seriously? I'm thinking that 2 for the game for less than 30 yards matters greatly.
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he's the better choice at QB, and the team is behind him.
Saying he's the better choice at QB right now is like saying getting run over by a car is better than getting run over by a pick up. That's how bad it is at QB for the Browns. One QB was benched for being innefective yet the other isn't. I don't care what their names are either. This type of inconsistency from a coaching staff doesn't do much for a team's confidence in them.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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He just went 2/17 for 23 yards two days ago.
2 of 17
This is a good example of why stats can be deceiving... I say there were 4 drops others say there was as many as 9. (I don't know if the other 5 were really drops or uncatchable.. Just not sure) So, the stats if they catch the ones I am SURE of are 6 of 17 and most likely a TD with the one that Royal Dropped.. Still not stellar by any means. Just saying.,, stats don't tell the whole story..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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" I think this is one of those situations where you just have to trust the decision makers ... the guys that see these guys everyday."
Wish I could.. Those decision makers are what us got us here....
Wrong. We didn't get "here" 5 games ago when the current coach/GM put a product on the field. The people that got us here have names like Phil Savage, Romeo Crennel, Policy, Clark, Palmer, etc. You can't even really blame Randy Learner for getting us here because he didn't own the team in '99, which was when this hole began to be dug.
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Just my $0.02 .....
I am sick and tired of trying to stuff a young QB into a bad offense and hope for great production ......
Let's do it right this time and build the offense ..... then insert a young QB. (If none of the 3 guys we currently have are deemed to be the answer)
As much as I hate the Ravens and Steelers .... they did it right. They created a situation where a young QB could succeed without having to do it all by himself.
I don't care if we trade away every QB we currently have on the roster as long as we build a team that can run the ball ... and play defense. If we do that, then a QB will have a greater chance to succeed.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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He just went 2/17 for 23 yards two days ago.
2 of 17
This is a good example of why stats can be deceiving... I say there were 4 drops others say there was as many as 9. (I don't know if the other 5 were really drops or uncatchable.. Just not sure) So, the stats if they catch the ones I am SURE of are 6 of 17 and most likely a TD with the one that Royal Dropped.. Still not stellar by any means. Just saying.,, stats don't tell the whole story..
It's kind of funny. I've seen about a half dozen stories in the national media about the Browns/Bills game where *all* of them talk about how DA didn't get any help and that there were at least 8 drops that were *totally* catchable passes.
So what that says to me is that the people who are unbiased and saw the game for what it was realize that Anderson should *easily* have been 10 for 17 and that Cleveland is woefully lacking in receivers that can catch a damn ball. ...meanwhile, if you come here or some other Browns boards, it's just Quinn fanatics and/or DA haters crying about how it's all his fault.
I think I'll believe the people who don't have a vested interest in rooting for their favorite male model and can write or say something without being chest deep in bias.
The Cleveland Browns: The only team who puts a picture of a hat on their hats.
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I am not really a DA fan, but I am not a DA hater either. I agree with your post Revenge. Your post is exactly what your point was. Unbiased assessment.
I did read somewhere that the team is averaging more rushing yards under DA because they have to be wary of the long pass. I don't have the stats in front of me, but if you were playing our team, would you be more worried about DA or BQ? Would you stack 8 in the box and tempt DA to go long?
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...meanwhile, if you come here or some other Browns boards, it's just Quinn fanatics and/or DA haters crying about how it's all his fault.
I'm neither a DA Hater or a Quinn humper,, I could care less who the starter is..I just wanna win. they could bring back the ghost of Otto Graham and if we win, I'm good to go...
As for my 4 drops,, I've had this same discussion on other threads.. I haven't rewatched the game and maybe if I did, I'd see 7,8 or 9 drops.. dunno.. when it's happening it happens quickly so sometimes I just miss it. Also, I can't say that I saw every single pass attempt either.. ya know,, Beer and bathroom breaks do happen....
So, when I say 4 it's because those are the ones I'm completly positive were drops...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Unbiased assessment.
I did read somewhere that the team is averaging more rushing yards under DA because they have to be wary of the long pass.
i wouldnt be worried about anything in the browns offense-but not because of either QB-i would focus on the playcalling. Daboll kind of sucks. I dont play in the NFL, but i can tell you every play in advance. What kind of OC is that?
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I'll throw my perspective out to you and Rishuz..
"D.A. brought that spark," said Jackson. "He can make every throw on that field. It's good knowing as a defensive player if you get your offense more than enough opportunities, they'll move the ball and create points."
Now..does the D need a spark from the QB or should they be creating their own spark?
The issue I have is that not whether he felt that the offense was on the field longer(which certainly helps a D) ..thats fine..but keep that to yo self ..because he's a part of the D that can't get off the field on 3rd down consistantly against better offenses..and that had nothing to do with who's QB'ing..
His words are exposing a partiality to a particular QB and alienating the other one..the D doesn't need to be voicing who they prefer..it's no better than Edwards chirping about having to dive and lay out for balls(dissing DA) WHEN HE himself can't even catch one in the mitts..
While I agree it would be nicer to have a D that you know can get those 3 and outs, I understand Jackson's point. The D probably "feels" better knowing the offense might have a better chance of actually sustaining a drive, rather than go 3 and out itself all the time,....that he voiced this in the locker room -- or wherever -- is a slight concern, I agree with you there.
Also, those better offenses you pointed out, should be tougher for the D to stop since they're 'better.' But are they really better against the rest of the league too, or just against the Browns,...?? I don't know, other than to state that both of these Browns' units are not very good at all.
There was indeed a shining of light in the Cinncinati game until the OT began, then the O went south. This lent itself to the D eventually going south, as in ability to hang,...not making excuses for either, just a theory where the offense can always get revved up because they have the ball, while the defense finally tires from having to protect (not to ignore playing terribly coached schemes), specifically referring to allowing CrazyLegs Carson to scramble for a first. The offense had five chances to get a measley field goal after the defense did it's job.
There are a lot of different reasons the team is bad. Though perhaps ill-timed, I'm kind of glad to hear what a player is actually thinking.
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Your response is a perfect example of the focus being in the wrong place.
No, calling a sub-average QB a sub-average QB is where my focus is...
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You and so many others are so anti-DA that you are failing to see the point.
No, I see the point. the point is that DA has been given 3 chances now to solidify himself as the starter, the first two times he had it taken away from him (by Charlie Frye and Brady Quinn no less), the third time has been less than stellar so far... who will take his job next time, Ratliff? that is the point.
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It doesn't matter what DA's stats were, doesn't matter that he's still showing some of the same deficiencies he's always shown ... he's the better choice at QB, and the team is behind him.
If you are one of those who thinks that DA is a temporary solution to the problem then maybe we aren't that far apart.. if you are one that thinks DA is the long term solution and just needs more time, then we are in serious disagreement.
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But keep talking about his failed scoring opportunities or his 2/17 or his interceptions or whatever it is you are doing in an attempt to pump up BQ ...
I'm not trying to pump up Brady Quinn.. more like I'm trying to drag DA down to BQs level so far... Brady Quinn has done NOTHING to pump up.. and neither has DA. the stats prove it, everything proves it... the only thing DA has presumably done is fire up the defense.. and if that's the best thing you can say about your QB, then you are in trouble.
yebat' Putin
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DA got into verbal fights/quarrel with couple of players on the field in different situation, Jerome Harrison and BE I guess. But this dose not make him bad leader at least in my eyes. Same way I don’t tag BQ bad leader because he got into fight with AH inside locker room
You got a link for that?
Other than yelling at Vickers on the field, I haven't heard of any disagreements with DA.
My point in bringing up Brady's altercation is that it says something about his character doesn't it?
I mean S. Smith isn't going to haul off and whack him for no reason---there obviously were words beforehand. What kind of QB, team leader, puts himself in that position. Getting into it with a back-up DT. Say what you want about S. Smith---but he hasn't ever punched any other QB he was teamed with---at least not to my knowledge.
So if Brady has the kind of attitude that leads to him getting hit in the face---what does that say about his likeability in the locker room? To me it shows that he has some character flaws---and makes me wonder what kind of guy he is.
How many other QB's in the league put themselves into a situation where they are getting punched by a back-up DT. It was a stupid move on Brady's part and it brings into question what kind of presence he has in the locker room.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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I think that DA has all the tools and can be at least servicable for the next couple years.
Personally, I think that I give him the reins the next few years with Mangini and Daboll. Give him the chance with a stable foundation and an improving team.
But then again, I thought that we should have kept him as starter all last year and into this year, all the while with RAC and Chud. Let him grow with the team and the offense.
Hopefully mangini will go with this. Keep DA and Daboll and let them grow with the offense. Build the team, improve the right side of the line, get a running back, some receivers and a TE---and focus on iproving the defense.
With all that stability we will see if DA can grow with the team. If he can't--then we draft a QB with all the pieces in place.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Adios. That's what I say. Get more picks Mangini!!!
We will own next year's draft! Very Bellichik like. Which we should expect.
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You gotta link for any of that ? You have no idea what was or wasn't said between these two--BOTH of whom are supposed to be professionals.
If Quinn really is that way, how do you purport to know his character so well ?
Think about it.
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Common sense says that words were said.
NO ONE just hauls off and punches a guy out of the blue.
And his public persona has been frequently referenced by some posters on here.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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It was a stupid move on Brady's part and it brings into question what kind of presence he has in the locker room.
You have NO IDEA what happened and how everything went down.. NO IDEA.. yet because Smith has never punched anybody before,he's vindicated. Has Quinn ever been in an altercation with a teammate before? You got any Irish sources that say Quinn was a problem?
Remember the timeframe.. Dec 2008, we were winding down a really bad season, Smith had been accused just a couple games before of "quitting" on the field.. .lots of things were going on...
yebat' Putin
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Irregardless it was an altercation between Smith and Quinn and Quinn got hit.
Who else got punched in the face?
What other QB in the league got in an altercation with a back-up DT?
You can try to downplay it all you want, but it still happened and the fact that it happened brings up questions about Quinns presence in the locker room.
Like it or not---thats how I see it.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Irregardless it was an altercation between Smith and Quinn and Quinn got hit.
Who else got punched in the face?
What other QB in the league got in an altercation with a back-up DT?
You can try to downplay it all you want, but it still happened and the fact that it happened brings up questions about Quinns presence in the locker room.
Like it or not---thats how I see it.
So true, but that's not how you KNOW it.
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I don't see how this doesn't bring about some serious questions about Quinns influence in the locker room!?!?
Unbelievable.
IMO, you don't get punched in the FACE for no reason.
And what kind of "leader" gets himself in this situation?
How does the team respond to the principles in this altercation?
Tons of questions and they all pertain to Quinns character and how his teammates perceive him.
Smith is pretty much a non-issue on the other hand cuz he is gone.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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I don't see how this doesn't bring about some serious questions about Quinns influence in the locker room!?!?
Unbelievable.
IMO, you don't get punched in the FACE for no reason.
And what kind of "leader" gets himself in this situation?
How does the team respond to the principles in this altercation?
Tons of questions and they all pertain to Quinns character and how his teammates perceive him.
Smith is pretty much a non-issue on the other hand cuz he is gone.
Finally getting the idea ?
Quinn is going to be gone one way or the other anyway.
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I would think the altercation speaks more about Smith than Quinn.
You are assuming Quinn had it coming to him and if he was the de facto leader of this team it would never have happened as it never happened to Tom Brady, or Tony Romo or whomever . . .
I took it last year to mean that the inmates were running the asylum. No control, no discipline, no accountability.
As for trading Quinn, who would want him now? Rams? Carolina? Would they want someone that bad now, when for what they cough up they can have someone next year?
I would think if a team made a move for him, they would do so cause they felt that they could win now, right now, with Quinn. I don't see that.
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Dump them both for whatever we can get before the 20th. Have the Great Browns Garage Sale. Get some picks for next year, sign Garcia for the rest of the season and move on.
Neither one is worth a flip and never going to lead us to the playoffs.
Time to end this debacle..
#GMSTRONG
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i don't think there is enough to the punching to say anything about the character of either player, other than smith threw the punch.
that said, i will point out that, in the nfl, everything is ultimately revealed. in the end, all the details come out, like the steve smith punch in carolina. that said...nothing was leaked about this one. that's even after shaun smith was released. if smith deserved all the blame, you can sure as hell bet the details would've come out by now. that's my opinion.
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Is that a vote for seeing Ratliff ? Because that's about where I'm at,... 
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Tyler....you're making assumptions on assumptions. Logically you're in a box of your own creation.
I could assign whatever I wanted to the situation and then expound on it. Too bad none is based in reality.
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If you are one of those who thinks that DA is a temporary solution to the problem then maybe we aren't that far apart.. if you are one that thinks DA is the long term solution and just needs more time, then we are in serious disagreement.
I don't know enough to say DA won't get it. If I were betting on it, I'd bet he was a temporary solution. I don't believe we've reached the point where we can say for certain although I would agree that point is not far off. I'd like to see what he could do the rest of this year. No more cancers on the team. Good OL. Decent running game. An improved defense. It seems like things are getting some stability. I'd like to see what he could do under those conditions. If I don't see any improvement throughout the rest of the year ... adios ... I'd have no problem with that whatsoever.
What I feel about DA is completely independent of what I feel about Quinn. I no longer have the desire to see what he could do, and that has nothing to do with DA. I just don't care for his style of game. I want a QB more in the pre-injury Carson Palmer mold. A guy that can carry us when things aren't ideal. I don't want just a game manager. I want a guy who can make plays. I don't believe Quinn would ever be that guy.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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If you are one of those who thinks that DA is a temporary solution to the problem then maybe we aren't that far apart.. if you are one that thinks DA is the long term solution and just needs more time, then we are in serious disagreement.
I don't know enough to say DA won't get it. If I were betting on it, I'd bet he was a temporary solution. I don't believe we've reached the point where we can say for certain although I would agree that point is not far off. I'd like to see what he could do the rest of this year. No more cancers on the team. Good OL. Decent running game. An improved defense. It seems like things are getting some stability. I'd like to see what he could do under those conditions. If I don't see any improvement throughout the rest of the year ... adios ... I'd have no problem with that whatsoever.
What I feel about DA is completely independent of what I feel about Quinn. I no longer have the desire to see what he could do, and that has nothing to do with DA. I just don't care for his style of game. I want a QB more in the pre-injury Carson Palmer mold. A guy that can carry us when things aren't ideal. I don't want just a game manager. I want a guy who can make plays. I don't believe Quinn would ever be that guy.
My thoughts exactly.
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welcome to the dark side, guys 
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Don't start that. It's bad enough to be lumped in with a group when it's unwarranted ... now we have unsolicited invitations into a group I want no part of. I'm in my own group. I'll try to continue to call it like I see it and base my opinions on that. Right or wrong.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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really? what group would that be? you said everything i've said for a while.
lighten up, man. you can only laugh at this point.
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And what kind of "leader" gets himself in this situation?
The kind of leader that tells someone who doesn't want to be told to do their job, to do their job. Punks don't like to be called out, especially when it's justified. The argument with Brian Cox during camp is pretty good evidence Smith is a punk. All you got on Quinn is he got hit, innocent people get assualted all the time. You may be 100% correct, but have no proof.
Go Irish!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,066
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,066 |
DA has some upside I suspect. But he can be stunningly awful as we have seen. BQ is a case of many bad things that went sour rusting on the shelf. Get something in the next month. We seem willing to commit to anything. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363 |
Quote:
I don't see how this doesn't bring about some serious questions about Quinns influence in the locker room!?!?
Unbelievable.
IMO, you don't get punched in the FACE for no reason.
And what kind of "leader" gets himself in this situation?
How does the team respond to the principles in this altercation?
Tons of questions and they all pertain to Quinns character and how his teammates perceive him.
Smith is pretty much a non-issue on the other hand cuz he is gone.
You evidently have never been around training camp to see Smith in action. The guy is a loud mouth punk who never shuts up. You make it sound as if BQ was taunting him or something. You don't have a clue what happened. It could have been something as simple as Quinn telling him to shut his trap. Smith got cut for running his mouth to a coach. But you can just continue on your far fetched DA loving agenda, but it IMO is making you look foolish. All these "questions" you refer to are coming from this and other boards, fans not players in the locker room. I find that comment to be BS.
I was all for BQ, I hate Anderson's inconsistency. But watching Quinn on the field was ...well, unwatchable. Using the other teams records is BS. He had recievers open, and didn't have the balls to try and make a play. Both defenses loaded up the box purposely to make him throw long, he wouldn't.
Sunday's game was more on the recievers than DA. Most of the drops I saw were for 1st downs and were good throws, and one was clearly looking like a TD. Quinn's stats ought to include how many plays he had on each drive, that would be the tell tale sign the stat lovers need to prove to them he was highly inneffective. He could not convert and move the chains.
That being said, trading Quinn would be a huge mistake at this point. I believe his problem is mental. We've all seen him play effectively, so something is definitely wrong in his head. I also believe that if DA is blowing a chance to win a game, Mangini would pull him. He has no reason not to. They both have issues.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
Unfortunate as it is, I think Mangini is done with Quinn. I'm just wondering how many of these roller-coaster hills we have to ride before DA is done too. At this point, I want to see if Ratliff can do anything.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Quinn being dangled in the NFL
lakes?
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