Nothing new, but thought this was worthy of it's own thread. Also thought there were some interesting points that I didn't see have been touched on before. Such as the percent of snaps played by Rogers last year.
Also there's a short video interview with Mangini for those of you who want to see it.
Chris Mortensen stops by Browns training camp and talks to Eric Mangini about the latest in the starting QB battle between Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn
BEREA, Ohio -- Details, details, details. Cleveland Browns coach Eric Mangini is a master of getting down to the details of pro football.
On Sunday, he turned the Brown and White Scrimmage into a simulated Sunday at Cleveland Stadium. How detailed was Mangini's game plan? He had NFL officials count off TV timeouts. He had replay challenges, pregame officials meetings and postgame news conferences.
AFC North blog ESPN.com's James Walker writes about all things AFC North in his division blog.
• Blog network: NFL Nation
Educated in the Bill Parcells-Bill Belichick coaching tree, Mangini has gathered teaching tools for years, and continues to fine-tune what he teaches his players and what he does for schemes. The Browns are Mangini's team now. Owner Randy Lerner is letting Mangini run the Browns his way. Players are schooled in technique and how those techniques fit within particular plays.
Coming off a 4-12 season, the Browns obviously have a lot to work on. Derek Anderson said the radio receiver in his helmet wasn't working Sunday, so he had to work with hand signals. Anderson said Brady Quinn, who was quarterbacking the White team, schooled White defenders on those hand signals, which made it harder for Anderson to work a drive filled with short passes. Details, details, details.
1. Who will be the QB? The Quinn-Anderson starting quarterback battle is too close to call, and Mangini insists the job is wide open, even though most people figure Quinn is the favorite. Quinn opened the scrimmage by hitting Lance Leggett on a 51-yard touchdown pass after he drew in deep coverage with a perfect play-action fake. Anderson showed some improvement on his short and intermediate throws, a problem that has nagged him over the past two years. Because Anderson has such a strong arm, he tends to throw fastballs in the short and intermediate range that are hard to catch. Once those problems were noted, Anderson started to hesitate before making the throw. Now, he's not hesitating, and that has improved his efficiency. Anderson made one fatal mistake Sunday by throwing into double coverage at the goal line; linebacker D'Qwell Jackson intercepted his throw. After the game, Quinn tried to dismiss thoughts that he's making a big effort to throw deep. Anderson is the long-ball specialist on the Browns, but Quinn can complete deep throws when he executes play-action fakes. Years of weightlifting have made Quinn one of the most "ripped'' quarterbacks in the league. His forearms are masses of swelling muscles, and his upper body looks more like a linebacker's. Surprisingly, Quinn said he spent more time running than lifting during the offseason, which allowed him to enter camp at 230 pounds, eight pounds lighter than last year.
2. The Browns will run: Because Mangini is a coach who believes in details, you get the feeling the Browns will be more of a running team at the start of the season. Mangini believes in learning the basics before trying to do the tricky things. For example, he won't let his defensive linemen do more than play their gap responsibilities until they show they've mastered the technique. He wants his offensive linemen heavier, which hints that the plan is to run the ball more. That works. Jamal Lewis looks trim at 240 pounds, and he's motivated to have a good season. He's happy Mangini kept fullback Lawrence Vickers and plans to keep the fullback on the field to help with the run. Lewis does his best work when he runs behind a fullback. At age 29 with 10 years in the league, this is an important season for Lewis. The Browns lost powerful guard Rex Hadnot for several weeks because of a knee sprain, but they still have Eric Steinbach and enough veterans to have a quality group of starting blockers.
3. Edwards is fired up: Braylon Edwards is excited about the 2009 season. He should be. He's in the last season of his contract, and he just watched fellow wide receivers Roddy White and Greg Jennings get contracts worth slightly less than $9 million a year. But football is a team game, and there are some serious concerns about the Browns' receiving corps. One of the most noticeable problems Sunday and throughout camp has been dropped passes. Edwards had a horrible time with dropped passes last season, but the rest of the receiving corps has to show it can catch the ball as well. Mike Furrey could help. He's a solid slot receiver. The Browns have two promising draft choices -- Mohamed Massaquoi and Brian Robiskie. Massaquoi caught three passes Sunday and seems to be a little ahead of Robiskie. If the rookies aren't ready to start, the Browns could try David Patten at the flanker spot. Furrey works better out of the slot, but the Browns have to find a flanker who can take some double coverage away from Edwards. What encourages Edwards is that the current coaching staff should do a better job with game adjustments on offense. Edwards felt the Browns didn't make adjustments on offense as games progressed last season.
4. Familiarity breeds success: Mangini made sure he brought in players who knew his defense. The acquisition of defensive end Kenyon Coleman was interesting because the Browns traded a second-round choice a year ago to acquire end Corey Williams. Williams is running the second team this summer; Coleman is starting. Eric Barton and David Bowens were brought over from the Jets to beef up the linebacker corps. Abram Elam will start at safety. That's four probable starters from the Jets who know Mangini's system. Cornerback Hank Poteat and defensive lineman C.J. Mosley will be key backups coming from the Jets. Even though former coach Romeo Crennel taught the Browns the Belichick system, Mangini has added his own variations. These six acquisitions should speed up the adjustment.
5. Less may be more: Rookie center Alex Mack should have a tough time in practices going against nose tackle Shaun Rogers. That was quite noticeable during Sunday's scrimmage. Mack was drafted to anchor the offensive line in the same manner Nick Mangold did for Mangini in New York. Rogers abused him Sunday, which shouldn't be a surprise, because Rogers is basically unblockable. There were times last season that Rogers was triple-teamed and still got into the backfield. It still amazes me that Rogers was so dominant at nose tackle last season but the Browns surrendered 151 yards a game on the ground. One of the problems apparently was that Rogers was playing too much. He played 82 percent of the snaps, leaving him vulnerable to wearing down later in the game. Jets nose tackle Kris Jenkins played 55 percent of the snaps last season and was equally dominating. Expect a slight cut in the number of plays for Rogers so he can provide better production later in games.
I see Mangini building the team like BB did in '91...I use this comparison because I feel it's somewhat valid.
In '91 BB came here and made changes right away. He got 5 OL and stuck with them through thick and thin even though the running game was still not good. He drafted E-Rock immediately to solidify the defense, as well as getting 300-pounders (a rarity at the time). He wanted to have a big, fast defensive line that could get to the QB without compromising pass defense via blitzing.
On O, he used Hoard as a pass-catching RB with size--Think of a physical Jamal with Jerome's hands--to compensate for lack of options at WR, just like now. Back then Slaughter, Brennan and the other WRs were either old or slow. Ozzie had retired in '90.
BB's team improved significantly, even if it wasn't seen right away--6-10 but a good defense instead of 3-13 and the worst defense ever.
Today, we bring in vets--at the time there was no FA, only Plan B and the draft. Everyone complains about Vardell, but at the time BB was trying to build a run-first team with size and strength, unlike the aging Browns teams under Bud and Marty...those teams were fast-ish and smart but age killed them.
Mangini's trying to rebuild the team in a hurry, like BB, but luckily he has more options 18 years later. He has a set of decent RBs. He has a stud NT, something that BB and RAC never had--MDP was good but more of a 4-3 DT/DE and not a true NT.
Quote: Massaquoi caught three passes Sunday and seems to be a little ahead of Robiskie.
That seem to run counter to what just about everyone else here is posting about camp. I'm guessing MoMass just had a better "game" but I'll watch for this vs. GB.
Quote:
Rogers was playing too much. He played 82 percent of the snaps, leaving him vulnerable to wearing down later in the game. Jets nose tackle Kris Jenkins played 55 percent of the snaps last season and was equally dominating.
Wow. When you then factor in how bad our offense was and that meant more time on the field for our defense....the difference grows.
This could be a big reason that Rubin is getting so much time right now.
I hate James Walker but I agree that Rogers was too worn down at the END of the most pivotal games last year......seeing him on the sidelines in the 4th quarter makes me rage.
Rogers saw so much time because we couldn't trust anyone else in that spot. Rogers dominated, but we still gave up 150+... Why? Because when Rogers would come out, they would run right up our gut. When he was in, they'd just get 47 guys to block down on him and they'd run to the opposite side of the blocking.
He was and is a one-man wrecking crew... and everyone and their mother knew that if they got him off the field, or got the play going away from him, that they stood a better than 50% chance of success. Get past Rogers' spot and it was going to be a good gain.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
My thoughts on this are the same since the beginning or at least what I felt would transpire, but Mangini is controlling the team in manner that we are not really accustomed too, but as someone mentioned I see some Billy B in how Mangini is working this, it's all about work ethic, and be ready. My thinking is this camp is a positive so far, no matter what transpires, but the expectations will be set. We need this, so some people say camp, and pre-season is meaningless, and to a degree they are right, but this camp for the Browns is setting a new precedent, a new face if you will, and there is some positive, this is still a work n progress, one I think that is right.
Quote: Rogers saw so much time because we couldn't trust anyone else in that spot. Rogers dominated, but we still gave up 150+... Why? Because when Rogers would come out, they would run right up our gut. When he was in, they'd just get 47 guys to block down on him and they'd run to the opposite side of the blocking.
He was and is a one-man wrecking crew... and everyone and their mother knew that if they got him off the field, or got the play going away from him, that they stood a better than 50% chance of success. Get past Rogers' spot and it was going to be a good gain.
Makes me wonder how our run D actually got WORSE with a REAL nose in the game...
That's weird too. But I like depth, and Rubin is depth. Depth is good, all the time. All the time, depth is good.
I think if we have competent DEs we'll be fine. It will also depend if we allow them to one-gap on occasion instead of everyone two-gapping and filling space. In Pgh they let Hampton one-gap sometimes. Josh
Quote: Makes me wonder how our run D actually got WORSE with a REAL nose in the game...
eh, it's all relative.
Even when comparing apples to apples, you're comparing apples from completely different orchards. We got worse in ranking? yardage?
Now, however, did we actually truly get any worse... or were those that we played just better than what we had played? Or, perhaps were the opponents just not playing from behind or trying to keep up with our '07 aerial assault?
The ONLY way you could look soley at previous rankings and directly compare to current rankings and derive anything truly meaningful from it is if everything else remained the same.... and that just never happens.
Apples to apples, but each apple is only relevant within its own orchard.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Pretty simple, Rogers clogged the middle, but our ends and OLBs were as bad at stopping the perimeter runs as they ever were. And as soon as he came out, up the middle they went.
You know every year I have what I think is a pretty pragmatic view of the season to come and I throw out some prediction like 8-8 (last year), 6-10 (the year before) but I'm always hopeful that I'm going to be greatly surprised like we were in '07. Now I recognize that '07 was a bit of a mirage (easy schedule with teams that underestimated us.. until the middle of the season anyway) but I still hope lightning can strike.
But when I search my heart of hearts this year, I don't see it. I'm not all that upset because I think Mangini might just be able to build something worth a darn in a few years but the more I read and look at it the more I think he's not too concerned with this year specifically. That we aren't really as close as some might have you think. This was a pretty decent article I guess but I keep coming away with the notion that this team is just mediocre and nothing is going to change that this year. I really don't see lightening this year.
I do like how firm handed and certain Mangini has been. It's clear to most of us who've seen a few regimes come and go with nary a sense of purpose or decisive direction that we know what it looks like when one actually does. What he's doing actually makes sense to most of us I think. Now I just hope that timing and hearts-&-minds, and the universe just cuts a little freaking slack and allows this season to be something a little better than awful. (Come on 7-9!)
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
You may be right, Ammo, but I think that 10yr has a very valid point. We should expect Mangini to come in and right things. We shouldn't lower our expectations.
But at the same time, we need to be realistic. We can easily see drastic improvement in this team and not see a big jump in our record. We have to remember that Mangini is inheriting a lot of garbage still.
We have a QB question. We have a WR question. We have a RB question. We have a LB question. We have DB questions. We have DL questions. Is there a single one of those units that we truly feel really comfortable about?
Perhaps we squeak a few out this year and end up .500. Perhaps we surpass everyone's expectations and do better than that. Perhaps we go 2-14. We really don't know.
But I think it's perfectly legitimate to look at this team right now and think we're not going to be competitive this year when it comes to our record. That's not necessarily a horrible thing. What matters most to me is that we're improving this team. It isn't an overnight thing (although I'd really like if it was). If we can lay true groundwork this season and then just keep improving, I'll be pleased.
Quote: Edwards felt the Browns didn't make adjustments on offense as games progressed last season.
And I felt Edwards dropped too many passes and shouldn't throw stones when he lives in a brick house.
Quote: ... they still have Eric Steinbach and enough veterans to have a quality group of starting blockers.
Do you know who Joe Thomas is?
Quote: Anderson said Brady Quinn, who was quarterbacking the White team, schooled White defenders on those hand signals....
Am I the only person who knew DA was joking, when I first read that the other day? I see they had to put out a joint statement to quell this scandal. LOL.
Quote: But at the same time, we need to be realistic. We can easily see drastic improvement in this team and not see a big jump in our record. We have to remember that Mangini is inheriting a lot of garbage still.
Why do us fans continue to give a pass to new coaches and then a year later ask for they're head? I'm not picking on you since79 but this statement I have read about every coach we have had since the return in 99.
It's high time that we as fans demand improvement and take nothing less. I have heard patience for years, when does that run out? Maybe when we are on our death beds!
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
Quote: The only reason people don't feel excited about this season is because the new coach isn't Bill Cowher.
Mangini was such a let down to most of the Browns fans because of his supposed "failure" in NY and because he's not a Superbowl winning ex-coach.
A complete load of steaming, festering crap, IMO.
Fans aren't excited because it is just yet another freaking year of "rebuilding" and regime change.... I'm freaking tired of it and won't get excited until they actually, FINALLY, show me something to actually get excited about.
It doesn't have a damned thing to do with it not being Cowher. Sorry, that is one of the dumbest things I've read in a while, hell, anyone that thought he was actually coming here is a completely unmitigated Idiot. This has everything to do with not falling for this franchise's same old routine. Call it a Pavlovian Effect or whatever, but we've been here and seen this.... this movie is a re-run until they show otherwise. At this stage, if that makes me a bandwagoner, then so be it... I'm a bandwagoner; and I'm Ok with that because this franchise hasn't shown me a damn thing except smoke and mirrors for 10 rotten, stinking years. They wear the colors of, and pretend to be, the Cleveland Browns, but they've been nothing but an embarrassment to that legacy since they've returned.... and I'm tired of it.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Quote: The only reason people don't feel excited about this season is because the new coach isn't Bill Cowher.
Mangini was such a let down to most of the Browns fans because of his supposed "failure" in NY and because he's not a Superbowl winning ex-coach.
A complete load of steaming, festering crap, IMO.
Fans aren't excited because it is just yet another freaking year of "rebuilding" and regime change.... I'm freaking tired of it and won't get excited until they actually, FINALLY, show me something to actually get excited about.
It doesn't have a damned thing to do with it not being Cowher. Sorry, that is one of the dumbest things I've read in a while, hell, anyone that thought he was actually coming here is a completely unmitigated Idiot. This has everything to do with not falling for this franchise's same old routine. Call it a Pavlovian Effect or whatever, but we've been here and seen this.... this movie is a re-run until they show otherwise. At this stage, if that makes me a bandwagoner, then so be it... I'm a bandwagoner; and I'm Ok with that because this franchise hasn't shown me a damn thing except smoke and mirrors for 10 rotten, stinking years. They wear the colors of, and pretend to be, the Cleveland Browns, but they've been nothing but an embarrassment to that legacy since they've returned.... and I'm tired of it.
AMEN! I don't think I would be a bit more excited if Cowher was here. The Browns have sucked for a very long time and I want to see them not suck. But, they have sucked so long that I'm mostly expecting them to now. It doesn't make us bandwagoners Purp...it makes us realistic. You can only pretend you're a football team so many times before fans stop believing you.
The answer is somewhere in the middle PPE. I disagree the lack of excitement is due solely to the fanbase being tired of the same old crap. Because, if Cowher really did come to the Browns, the fans would be thrilled right now. You're right, missed expectations of Cowher not coming has nothing to do with the fans' response. On the other hand, Mangini is doing nothing to instill any excitement. Cowher would have...
Another way to look at the intent is that Mangini might not be very good. We've heard comments about training camp not having a "good vibe" (e.g., Peter King, his reputation around here not-withstanding). Today, I heard this comment from Boomer Esiason: "Mangini was miserable here in New York, just like how the Cleveland Browns are finding out right now."
(Sorry, Patriots focused, but the comment is around the 3:50 mark) Esiason Interview
Esiason's remarks might have been on Mangini's coaching style, and not his team's performance, so the Browns might not be a "miserable" team. I still think it is worth noting that Mangini's reputation is still alive and kicking...
I was a fan of Mangini's hiring. I just hope my hopes were not misplaced.
Quote: The only reason people don't feel excited about this season is because the new coach isn't Bill Cowher.
Mangini was such a let down to most of the Browns fans because of his supposed "failure" in NY and because he's not a Superbowl winning ex-coach.
No, I'm not refereing, even subconsciouly, to some disappointment in not having Cowher as a head coach. I was actually in the minority of folks that didn't want Cowher. He's a decent coach mind you but I think Cleveland fans liked the *idea* of him for lots of reasons that weren't really even about his football coaching skills. And I said many times that he wasn't coming here, period. It made ZERO sense for him to at the time. People forget that he had a good chunk of years there with little success.
Quote: Today, I heard this comment from Boomer Esiason: "Mangini was miserable here in New York, just like how the Cleveland Browns are finding out right now."Esiason's remarks might have been on Mangini's coaching style, and not his team's performance, so the Browns might not be a "miserable" team. I still think it is worth noting that Mangini's reputation is still alive and kicking...
I was a fan of Mangini's hiring. I just hope my hopes were not misplaced.
Know this, Esiason is an idiot. ...Now that doesn't matter when speaking about his football knowledge but go back and count how many good or positive things that guy has ever said about Cleveland.
Last edited by Referee6; 08/13/0912:18 PM.
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
Quote: Know this, Esiason is an idiot. ...Now that doesn't matter when speaking about his football knowledge but go back and count how many good or positive things that guy has ever said about Cleveland.
I listen to Esiason's radio show every morning with Craig Carton on WFAN 660 New York and I have to say he seems like a fine guy.
Carton and Esiason always try to do nice things for different foundations, Esiason bought Carton a brand new Camaro. I don't know who you get your information from, but Boomer Esiason out of Long Island New York is very well respected around the tri-state area.
I like his sports talk, and he does a lot for charitable causes around the New York Area. I have nothing bad to say about Boomer.
He's like Long Island's biggest hero (along with Wayne Cherbet), you've gotta love him
Know this, Esiason is an idiot. ...Now that doesn't matter when speaking about his football knowledge but go back and count how many good or positive things that guy has ever said about Cleveland.
It's funny you should bring that up. I don't like Boomer, and a buddy of mine who was listening to the interview said, "He seems to be a likable guy on-air and in interviews." I had to hold my tongue in response. I'm not a fan of him on CBS; yet, he is a key talking head on the NFL. It's hard to avoid hearing him.
I realize that I am referencing Peter King and Boomer Esiason on this topic. These guys are not the most insightful football minds. On the other hand, the Mangini interviews I see make me wonder how much of Mangini's heart is in it.
Take it for what it's worth. I keep reminding myself: Mangini is a smart guy and he has surrounded himself with a lot of smart and capable coaches. He also took the Jets to the playoffs, so he has that going for him.
Just to clarify and refer to PeteyDangerous - I respect Boomer for the work he does with charities. And he knows a helluva lot more than I when it comes to football. But, there are lot of other better analysts in the field. If I had to choose between Jaws and Boomer, I would take Jaws over Boomer, always.
Carton and Boomer in the morning? Meh. I listen to them whenever in the area and they sound like the rest. (And I enjoyed listening to Carton when he was on the air in Philly, but I also like Jody Mac, if that gives you an idea of my take). In every market, morning sports talk is just "The View" for men. Sometimes, I get as much sports information from NPR or the guests on Imus.
Quote: The only reason people don't feel excited about this season is because the new coach isn't Bill Cowher.
I was trying to think back on conversations I've had with friends regarding the Browns.. I can't think of one person that honestly felt there was a rats chance of us getting Cowher.
Now,, as far as the media goes,, Grossi was pimping the hell out of Cowher.. he was predicting Cowher to be the coach before we went 10-6 in 07. I remember him saying on thier TV show that he expected RAC to be fired midseason and that the following year, Cowher would be the coach..
Neither of which came true of course.. But that's just Grossi being Grossi I guess.
Other than him, I can't think of anyone that believed, I mean really believed that Cowher would ever come here.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
"Makes me wonder how our run D actually got WORSE with a REAL nose in the game..."
Another argument for that stat thing...our run D actually got better. We put ourselves in more 3rd n 5+ situations then ever before.
We didn't have the best depth and consistent discipline...so the Run D would Break Down and give up the stats.
But it was better.
Some other things. Boomer loved Mangini till Spygate and he told on Bill.
If they hated him so much in NY why so many wanting to come here? And praise from others...Leon Washington and Jenkins to speak of a few.
Even those who didn't really like Mangini didn't really bad mouth him but instead game off handed compliments...as in hating to come to camp and relaying that hate to new FA...then was pleasantly surprised at the NEW CAMP MANGINI in 08...still discipline but fair and even fun.
So where is all this crap coming from Boomer. Except for stuff the media sort of forces out like if they compliment the current coach...the interviewer will always state something like Unlike the Terrible Camps of Mangini past...and the guy will sort of not know how to answer but would smile or chuckle and say sheepishly yeah. Then the writer goes and states how much they hated Mangini...what a bunch of crapola.
You'd think Mangini was Bill O'Reilly and all the sports Media were Cnn and Channel 4 News. Both bottom crud of the earth...lol
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Good post. I get the feeling that Man-Genie is pushing the envelop relentlessly, but in a controlled way. Seems to have a lot of irons in the fore and a bunch in each hand. I feel he is doing a better job of correcting things that were allowed to go on for several years, and has been able to do that successfully and for the better for the most part. Just saying. . . .
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
yeah Prpl dont hold bacl,tell us how you really feel
I think people are forgetting that this team was not as bad as that 4-12 record last year would indicate. How many games did we have a very legitimate chance to win last year? Vey easily we could have won 3 more games than we did,playing a very tough schedule. I am not saying this team is going to the playoffs or anything like that but I dont think it is all the doom and gloom that people are talking about. I think we are a lgeitimate 7-9 playing a weaker schedule this year.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
Quote: The only reason people don't feel excited about this season is because the new coach isn't Bill Cowher.
Mangini was such a let down to most of the Browns fans because of his supposed "failure" in NY and because he's not a Superbowl winning ex-coach.
I assume you came to this opinion because of the amount you listen to sports talk radio. There seems to be a lot of this sentiment on the air. I think Michelle and Purple are right. Last year we were expected to finally turn the corner but instead we stunk up the place. New GM and new coach means yet another year of rebuilding to a lot of the fans.
"You can say what you want and speak your mind," safety Kerry Rhodes said. "I think it's always best if you can do that, because if you don't you can end up holding so much stuff in that at the end of the day it can be combustible. That's how we ended up with the last coach."
...
As for the Jets, the mantra uttered in every corner of their camp is that the relaxed Ryan "treats us like men," with the implication that the rigid Mangini didn't.
Without naming Mangini, specifically, guard Damien Woody said not being afforded that respect "is almost degrading."
"Here I am 31 years old, I've got my own kids, and I'm married, and here's someone that's not that much older than me -- or whatever the case may be -- telling me what I can and can't do," Woody said. "It's so regimented where the game is just not a game anymore. It's not fun. Even when you win it's not fun."
-------------------
Yes, I'm still PO we hired this guy...and this article doesn't make me feel better....oh, and to all the cheerleaders...here is your article to my argument
Combine that with what Carey alluded to, Tucker wanting to retire, Rogers incident etc etc...I don't like the tone of this
Guy looks and speaks like a bigoted, arrogant, overconfident XXXX (your choice)...a cheater turned snitch, that's what Mangini WAS and will EVER be in my book...he may just be a result of Bellichick's cheating expertise
In all fairness, I don't think it's fair to compare Mangini to Rex Ryan who has never been a head coach of any NFL team before.
Also, IMHO, the Jets are going to fly out of control this year. The pendulum swung the other way. I feel like Ryan probably has no structure or discipline with what I've seen. The way he talked about that player from Miami was pretty fan-ish and unprofessional.
I guess we'll have to see how he plays out first as the Jets head coach before we compare him to Mangini.
Also, remember, just because the players love the coach does not make him a good head coach, even if he was a great defensive coordinator. Sound familiar?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
"You can say what you want and speak your mind," safety Kerry Rhodes said. "I think it's always best if you can do that, because if you don't you can end up holding so much stuff in that at the end of the day it can be combustible. That's how we ended up with the last coach."
...
As for the Jets, the mantra uttered in every corner of their camp is that the relaxed Ryan "treats us like men," with the implication that the rigid Mangini didn't.
Without naming Mangini, specifically, guard Damien Woody said not being afforded that respect "is almost degrading."
"Here I am 31 years old, I've got my own kids, and I'm married, and here's someone that's not that much older than me -- or whatever the case may be -- telling me what I can and can't do," Woody said. "It's so regimented where the game is just not a game anymore. It's not fun. Even when you win it's not fun."
-------------------
Yes, I'm still PO we hired this guy...and this article doesn't make me feel better....oh, and to all the cheerleaders...here is your article to my argument
Combine that with what Carey alluded to, Tucker wanting to retire, Rogers incident etc etc...I don't like the tone of this
Guy looks and speaks like a bigoted, arrogant, overconfident XXXX (your choice)...a cheater turned snitch, that's what Mangini WAS and will EVER be in my book...he may just be a result of Bellichick's cheating expertise
Ah man, let's not throw the new coach under the bus already.
Quote: Guy looks and speaks like a bigoted, arrogant, overconfident XXXX
I've seen a lot of Mangini pressers since he became our coach, and I never ever thought he was anything like what you describe.
Forget what HCs say....look what they do:
Mangini coached under Bellichick and got promoted from DB coach to DC to HC BECAUSE of the cheating...he KNEW they were cheating but didn't say anything because he obviously profited from it...then he turned around and snitched on his master once he became a HC and his ego was bigger than his belly ....that's as double-faced as it gets
Last year on the Jets epic late season meltdown...you could see Mangini shaking his head in disgust mid-game as if he didn't want to have ANYTHING to do with his players...he looked like an angry and bitching Eric Cartman...and had that loser face on him...for a guy preaching "team" and "character" he sure didn't behave that way himself...as a leader...in a stressful situation
He's so much Butch Davis....I'm really surprised nobody is seeing this
Man does this all sound familiar? I remember when RAC came, all the talk of Butch being mean and not treating them like men. Then RAC proceeded just the way Ryan is in NY. I would wait until I saw the end result before I would praise Ryan. Also remember he is inheriting a better team than RAC did. Also remember that Mangini built that team.
If you were a player and a coach let you do as you pleased you would love it too. Guys like Woody are showing their true colors crying like babies about Mangini being mean. Parcells and Belichek are the same way and I don't see their players whining.
Quote: Here I am 31 years old, I've got my own kids, and I'm married, and here's someone that's not that much older than me -- or whatever the case may be -- telling me what I can and can't do," Woody said
This sums up Woody right here. No respect for Mangini because of his age. No wonder the team faltered with selfish whiners like this in the lockerroom.
No matter what the coaches age is, a player should respect the position. These comments show what a sad state the league is in with some of these over paid crybabies.
Man I wish Diam would lend me that crying baby.......sure fits here.
By the way Django, haven't you seen any of the good remarks from former players? Selective process for the desired effect
(Come on 7-9!)
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