DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Ryan has high hopes for Browns' D

*L* .. ya .. hopefully it ends up a severe understatement .. i can't see how it won't .. but u never know ..

I wasn't very clear by what i said ... i meant that TALENT allows coaches to do certain things .... last year we did not have the TALENT to implement the schemes Ryan is talking about and the schemes that most on here are whining about ....

so i was only reffering to coaching in that regard ... not the total picture ...

better ...

No doubt the talent level "increase" should allow for coaches to be better at coaching,....needed that (them both) for a long time now,....

My theory is the improved offense should allow for better defensive play,....I really believe that was a locker room issue before, that Mangini will have nipped in the bud, where RC had no control,...but that's just crystal ball on my part.

Go Browns.

I agree with everything U just said .... and your dead nts right we have needed more talent and better coaching both for a long ass time ... the entire Policy/Davis regime was a TOTAL WASTE OF TIME ... it actually set us back .. I am not sure how it could have been worse ..

and the rift between Opie and RAC really really hurt in alot of areas (sumptin i was COMPLETELY BLIND TO) .. but i will give them credit for one thing .. they left us in PRETTY GOOD SHAPE ... did they miss .. ABSOLUTELY .. but they sure as hell left us with a DECENT FOUNDATION in talent level ..

when they came in I was thinking 3 or 4 years to turn us around ... these guys ... we don't need turning around .. IMO were ready to contend for the playoffs today ... TALENT WISE ..

I believe we are about 95.99872 % in agreement .. and were just discussing not really disagreeing on the other 4.11238% ...

I am looking forward to this year more than any since our return ... way more than the seasons following when we made the playoffs under bOtch and came close under RAC ..

95.99872 %

Is that all,...

Finally! Thankee sweet Gawd! Football may appear at the Pound on the Pond at last. I want pressure and turnovers and sacks, oh my! THIS DC is gonna bring some cutthroat calls if he is like his old man. You didn't rest much against elder Ryan. Go after people. And I read they are teaching Wimbley a SECOND move, which may help, possibly more. This squat and watch, read and react crap we have endured is every bit as solid and daunting as the preventless defense. I want sumpin new that bloody some noses around the league. We need it. If defense is rumbling, getting turnovers, getting off the field, the O will catch fire too. Cut em loose!

Cleveland Browns defensive coordinator Rob Ryan talks to the press
by Courtesy Cleveland Browns
Thursday June 18, 2009, 7:48 AM

Here is a transcript of defensive coordinator Rob Ryan's meeting with the press on Wednesday:


Tracy Boulian | The Plain Dealer

(On his 3-4 defense compared to Romeo Crennel's 3-4 defense) - "To be honest with you, I'm not here to farm anyone else's land. I'm not sure how things were done here in the past. I know our vision, myself, Eric (Mangini) and the rest of the defensive staff. We want to be multiple and we want to have multiple players who can play different spots and cause confusion. That's where we want to get to. Right now, the first thing is to be able to line up and play with good technique. That's where we are starting. That's what we tried to emphasize in the OTAs and the minicamp. I was impressed with how hard the guys were working and picking things up. As soon as you get a grasp of your basic concepts, the sooner you can be multiple and be more effective." (Translation: We're going to bring the heat more and disguise formations better.)

(On if you plan to play man-to-man coverage like his defense in Oakland) - "I like our corners here with Cleveland. In Oakland it was our style of play. It was how the team was drafted, to play with a middle-field safety. Our team is built a little different way, but I still have good confidence in those guys. I've been really impressed in Eric Wright and the way that he has worked and his talent." (Translation: "Al Davis made me run Man Cover 1...I get to show my real scheme here.")

(On what he has to do to get more out of the pass rush) - "With pressuring the quarterback, obviously 17 is a low number. Again, I wasn't in the huddles and broke those guys. I'm not sure exactly what their problems were, but I know with today's game and this league you get a lot of max protect in our conference and a lot of quick, three-step passing. Maybe the numbers aren't going to be so high. I'm sure we will do better, but it's a work in progress." (Translation: We won't rush 3 on 3rd and long all the time.)

(On if he equates sacks to success on defense) - "That's a great question. Obviously, growing up around the Chicago Bears, who set all the records for sacks, that's a great style of play that is great for fans. The biggest thing is being able to get off the field. What pressure does do, with the sacks, and great pressure on the quarterbacks, it causes people to turn the ball over. To me, that's the most important thing; getting turnovers and obviously keeping points off the scoreboard." (Translation: Yes sacks = success)

(On his thoughts on Brodney Pool, Kamerion Wimbley and D'Qwell Jackson) - "First thing is all three of those guys have been very impressive in the meeting rooms. They are all working very hard. We've got a massive playbook, obviously, and those three young men have done a great job of grasping it. Last year, Kamerion was focused more on the right side. We're playing him all over, at right, left, and also in a buck, which moves around. He's had a lot of roles and we look forward to increasing his role. I think with Brodney, free safety in our scheme is a very difficult position to play. I think he has done a good job; he made several plays in the OTAs. I was impressed with him. You mentioned D'Qwell Jackson; I am really impressed with him. I think the sky is the limit for that young man's future. I think he is outstanding. We haven't had any pads on, but I have seen enough film, and I'm not studying the scheme that was on the tape, but I watched that young man run around, run to the football and lead the league in tackles. A blind man could see his talent."

(On Jackson's size) - "Obviously we all want 6-4, 250, but nowadays in college - and that's where we get these players from - most people are kind of sizing down. The linebackers are playing defensive end, the safeties are playing linebacker, so the sizes of these guys are getting a little bit smaller. He's got a lot of speed and a ton of talent and I'm really looking forward to working with him. I believe any scheme is going to feature a young man like that."

(On Kamerion Wimbley and if he can return to his form from his rookie season) - "I think the young man has great ability to rush the passer. With the numbers, again numbers say a lot of things and a lot of times they don't paint the right picture. I think the guy has great talent. He is a hard worker and he does what the coaches ask him to do. We've asked him to concentrate on pushing the pocket and using more bull rush and speed rushing. Hell, the guy does it everyday. You see him working on the things you tell him and I believe he is only going to get better with great coaching. I think that is what he has in Bryan Cox and Matt Eberflus, the two guys that are working with him, who are two of the top coaches in football. I really think he is going to have a tremendous year for us." (Translation: We won't just line him up as a DE to take on a LT...he'll come from various spots and while he may not be beastly, his sack numbers will improve)

(On if he has the players to stop the run) - "That's a tough question to answer right at this moment because we haven't seen the men with pads on and I like to evaluate guys when I see them at full speed and full tempo. I know stopping the run; sometimes you can be great at it, sometimes not. What you have to be is well-coordinated in whatever scheme you're playing and do a good job of that. I know in Oakland the last three years, if you want to look at stats, we weren't very successful there either at stopping the run. My whole life I've stopped the run and you can also look that up. We'll get it done here. There is fine talent here and everybody has been working hard. Their attitude has been great. They've taken to Eric and all his leadership, and it's only going to make us a great football team. We'll make sure we get that done." (Translation: "Hell if I know, we'll see when the pads come on.")

(On his father as an influence in his life) - "Obviously it was tremendous. He likes to say that me and my brother saw was Super Bowls. He's probably right. Apparently he has been to six of them. Maybe it's contagious. Bottom line is it is a great life, especially for boys growing up. You idolize your father and we wanted to be like him. The difference is that we were interested in the strategy of the game more than playing. We played football but we weren't Tarzan by any stretch. We always enjoyed the strategy of it, the X's and O's. We wanted to know more and it's just something, for whatever reason, we got into. My older brother is a lawyer; he used to be a journalist. I don't know how he got into that profession."

(On why he is not running the 46 defense) - "We do. You'll see that on Sundays."

(On if it will be used as a base defense) - "No. Really, the 46 was designed as a nickel defense. It wasn't really the base of my father either. It just started stopping everything so it became a base. We definitely run some 46 defense. Eric is a huge fan of the 46. That's something he has always said, 'Hey, let's get this in, let's go' In fact, in New England, we worked together a lot and he was so smart. You would be tired after working two-a-days and you are ready to go to bed, and he would be like, 'No, put those tapes on for an hour and let's watch it.' He is the one who eventually got it into New England and we had so much success with it there. It's something that is definitely going to be a part of this package." (Translation: "If Rex ran it, I'm running it.")

(On if his father will attend training camp) - "Yes, he is going to be here right when training camp starts. He is a Cleveland Browns fan."

(On why he is not a New York Jets fan) - "I don't know, maybe he likes them, too."

(On Oakland not being ranked high defensively) - "We were. We were third and we were first in pass defense three years ago."

(On how you get your defense to rank in the Top 10 with a new team after not ranking there the past couple of year with your old team) - "Well, it's a team game. In Oakland, we had a rough time. Not just on defense, I can assure you. We had some issues there and I'm not going to point fingers at anybody. My record speaks for itself. You would like to be in the top three every year. We got there once, and I believe we were dead last in offense. We know how to coach some football. Things come up during the year and sometimes the ball bounces your way and sometimes it doesn't. I know one thing, what we're going to have here in Cleveland is an attacking defense, it's going to be an exciting defense, and we are going to play great football." (Translation: Al Davis is senile and doesn't have a clue how to defend the modern day offenses.)

(On the defensive line overall) - "I've been real excited with the guys out there practicing. Shaun Rogers is a tremendous specimen. He is so athletic for such a big man. That is a rare thing. I've been around the best in football. I've been around Warren Sapp, and in college I coached Jamal Williams and Kevin Williams, a couple of decent All-Pro defensive tackles. I think I'm pretty familiar of what a good one looks like and Shaun Rogers is tremendous. He is absolutely tremendous. Any system that he plays in, he is going to be dominant. It's fun to see him move around and do some things. We've got a couple good looking guys that weren't practicing, and it's hard to evaluate them because they are running up that hill and things; Corey Williams and Robaire Smith are a couple of good looking guys. The rest of them have been working real hard."

(On Corey Williams) - "It's hard to evaluate. I'd like to answer your question but I really can't at this time. I don't know the young man enough to say how he is going to do. I know our 3-4 looks a little different than if you just line it up on paper. The guys who were two-gap and straight up on the offensive tackles, well we are a little bit wider. That might be a little different look. I'd like to tell you more about Corey Williams but I don't want to tell a lie."

(On how you work with players with different personalities) - "I don't know how different they are, they probably think I'm different. I think it's just something where you just have to be yourself. I've had success coaching in college, pro, wherever I've been. For whatever reason, my guys play hard and they don't quit. I can count the number of games where I thought we didn't do well and felt like we quit on one hand in all my years of coaching. We are going to fight like hell, just like the people in Cleveland would want us to, and we are going to be great."

(On if Pool, Jackson and Wimbley are better than he expected) - "I'm so excited about being here, first of all. Being matched up with Eric, that's exciting to me. You get out and you see some talent, it's like, 'This is going to be great.' With good players I usually do pretty well. We have some fine players here and I'm really looking forward to watching these guys grow as professionals and also grow as a unit and turn this thing around. I know that is why we are all here. If everything was rosy we wouldn't be here. I'm looking forward to the challenge; I'm working with some great people, guys that I admire. I'm looking forward to doing a great job."

(On the difference in Coach Mangini from New England to now) - "I'm not going to say he is bigger because I might be, too. Here is the type of guy Eric is. When we were in New England together, we always said we were masterminds trying to come up with stuff to help us win, and we did. We did a lot. His leadership is phenomenal and people don't realize. He could make me work out every single day and somebody already ripped me in the papers, I appreciate it. I'm not exactly a box of chocolates, but he had me looking like a box of chocolates. We worked out 162 straight days, and he made me do it because I fought every single day to try and get out of it. He can motivate you into doing things you don't want to do. He can motivate you like, 'Put that 46 on, teach it to me.' He's a grinder that way. He brings the best out of me and he'll bring the best out of every player on that team. That is what is so exciting to be around him. He hasn't changed a bit. In my opinion, I think he is the same guy. He is so relentless that he makes you win. I think he had probably more to do with us having success in New England than probably anybody except Tom Brady. I mean I'll give him his due. But really, he is that good of a coach." (Translation: "If Mangini fails I'll be amazed."

(On his safeties) - "I mean, right now they are working hard and studying. I know it sounds like the same standard answer, but that's all you can evaluate right now. Are guys in position to make plays, are they working hard. When you look out in the crowd do they have their eyes wide open and not shut like some people have in the past. These are guys who are going to get better and they are going to grow in the system. Abe Elam has been in this system before, but I don't know if he was a marquee guy so it's his time to step up and do some things and I think he will."

(On his brother Rex Ryan being outspoken and if it's part of the Ryan family tradition) - "I can't really get into it too much. I know he is going to do a great job as head coach. He has worked all his life to do it. I know he is going to lead his way and they'll do great. If you look at the job he's done as an assistant coach, he might be the best assistant coach in football. His record speaks for itself. He has been tremendously successful as an assistant coach and I'm sure he will be as a head coach. I know he will be. "

(On how many days in a row he has worked out now) - "That would be zero. We are waiting for training camp. Eric thinks of everything. He has had green berets come in and that guy ripped me following the article in front of the team. We had another guy who might be here but you just can't see him. He is one of those ninja guys; he came in and talked to us about losing weight. Whatever it takes, I'll lose 100 pounds if it means we will win a Super Bowl. I'll be out there jogging. I've got some work to do."

(On the impact of bringing in former Jets players) - "I don't care if we get them from Amsterdam as long as they can play and these guys can. The great thing about them is that they are familiar with our system. That's a huge plus because we'll test these guys, not only physically, but mentally. It gives a huge jump on things when you get guys who are familiar with the system. Also, they are high character tough guys, guys that everybody in Strongsville and Columbia Station, where I live, are going to be proud of. Guys that are going to give them an honest days work and hopefully knock the teeth out of somebody. I think that is what everyone of them has. They have that toughness, that genuine toughness, and they are smart. It's great to have guys like that on your team, especially on defense."

Well, hell....

It all sounds good. It all sounds new.......

No- waitaminnit... it all sounds eerily familiar to offseason articles I've read for the past 10 years.

Tellyawhat...

I'll get excited in September, when I see Peterson held to 53 yards rushing, the entire Vikings O limited to 270 total yards and 10 (or fewer) points.
I'll get excited when I see a 4-sack game, and a Defense that looks like it could scare and contain ANY professional O out there.
I'll get excited when I see a disguised blitz that actually results in a turnover or 12+-yard loss of field position.
I'll get excited when I see a D that shows something other than a flatlined ECG reading.

THAT'S when I'll get excited.

Until then, it's all just words on a computer screen....

Not sure if this was posted but although most of the quotes and reporting was accurate. I've always found it more interesting to view the Presser and look at the demeanor and presentation to put my 2 n 2 together.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/multimedia/mediaplayer.php?id=5994&ftype=article&fid=9638

needless to say I was very impressed...I've been impressed and in much anticipation of our new defense from the get go. Yes, Homer I am but deep down I'm truly excited about seeing a dominant defense.

Sure there is a fear of giving up home runs with an aggressive Defense. But I still say we got good enough CBs to go one on one. I really was happy at the gushing Ryan did over EWright - I knew we got him at a steal 2 years ago (ty Savage ) he'll be key in the aggressive Defense.

Discipline and pressure...you get that combination I don't care if its Run D or Pass D its a wicked, wicked combo. And we do have the talent base to pull it off.

Our DL is so under rated Also if I heard correctly Ryan is going to have our DE's playing 4 or 5 technique...this would free up the OLBs to create havoc.

Some dawgs might fear the Home run with aggressive D but in fact if you lack Discipline (execution) within any Defense passive or aggressive you will get burned!

As stated before last season we had the 2nd most INTs of the entire NFL!!! That is big time but when you go look at our Passive Defense and total lack of Pressure that stat is incredible. Now I don't know if we will have double or triple the sacks of 08 (17) but I can assure you we will have Pressure and force the QB to get rid of the ball quickly....Our young DBs are going to have a field day out there. Get ready for a nickname for the group?

Against the run...again discipline and the addition of Barton is tremendous as our young talented LBs will be pointed in the right direction and they can eliminate a lot of the thinking which causes hesitation and they can get back to simply playing football. Young and Good?

DQ top of the list we got a true winner and totally underappreciated here by many dawgs this kid turned the corner last year and because we went 4-12 it went unnoticed.

Wimbley, will be set loose this kid has been placed back on his heels since his rookie year and it has retarded him. Sort of a Thoroughbred Race Horse - made to be a trotter and not allowed to run! Ryan will set him loose I doubt if we'll see him in 40 technique where the LT didn't have to move to block him...he'll be all over the place.

Hall, the kid has tremendous raw skills again he is leaving the realm of playing on his heels in read and react. He will be put in a position to take advantage of his great athletic skills and Attack.

Tonga Kid...DV, again loads of talent and very coachable, he will compete with Hall and maybe even Wimbley in a Rotation.

Of course sitting in the wings is also Bowden who recorded 5 sacks in a limited performance last season with the Jets...of course that would have led our team in sacks.

LB once thought of a big time weakness especially after losing McG and AD two starters...I think will be a great strength...Why? Cause we are going to ATTACK and we got the excellent athletic talent to do so with great success!

JMHO...I've been waiting "FOREVER" as a Browns fan for an exciting ATTACK DEFENSE...as in Forever! I can't remember the browns having a defense that wasn't Bend but never Break by design!

Mangini and Ryan have been waiting and planning for this day a long time coming! Where they can run Their D and are totally on the same page in its design, game plan and execution!!!

Man am I excited

I will admit I have been sooo envious of the defense that we have seen in our own division. The Ravens and Steelers come out and make people fear them and thats what I want for Cleveland.

I think Savage built this team to get after people. He was drafting for the Ravens version of the 3-4 and not the pats version. That was really unfair to RAC but it may make the perfect fit for Rob Ryan to turn this thing around in a hurry.

I cant say I like what I am hearing because I love what I am hearing and its weird cause I wanted no part of a Mangini regime.

I didn't either, but let's give him a chance. He'll either make the most of it or not.

Quote:

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Want him or not, it's who we got. I think we're going to know real quick how good of a choice he is.

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He is the Browns Head coach, so I will back him.....Until be totally p.....me off, than off with his head....

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Yeah but I actually TRUST this coaching staff to get it right with Kam.

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Ammo,

I hope you're right, but personally I think if Kam was a player he would have found a way to make some plays regardless of the scheme or coaching staff. Other than his rookie flash, I only seem to remember plays he didn't make, like failing to bring down Big Ben one-on-one resulting in a critical conversion and ultimately another loss to the Squeelers. The scheme is nothing more than a starting point...once the play develops the player must identify and react...Kam hasn't shown me he can do that yet.

Again, I love the aggressive stance they are decsribing, but will wait to see how it unfolds with the players we have.

NFL Insider: Mangini, Rob Ryan want the Cleveland Browns' defense to have a '46' look

Plain Dealer, June 20, 2009
by Tony Grossi

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- In the 1990s, Bill Parcells once told me that Buddy Ryan was the most influential coach in football.
"His defense changed everything," Parcells said during a visit when Bill Belichick, his protege, first took over as Browns coach.

Ryan's "46" defense of the Chicago Bears bludgeoned foes in the 1980s with relentless pressure on running and passing downs. Ryan's defense might have been the most dominant the NFL has ever seen.

The 46 name came from the jersey number of hard-hitting safety Doug Plank, who lined up close to the line of scrimmage and played with the reckless abandon Ryan sought from the entire unit. Plank was the so-called eighth man in the (tackle) box. On any given down it was possible that all eight players -- four linemen, three linebackers and Plank -- would rush the passer or the ball-carrier.

The 46 is synonymous with the Ryan coaching name. And now, Rob Ryan, Eric Mangini's defensive coordinator, will try to incorporate a version of the 46 with the Browns.


It won't be the Browns' base defense, but Ryan is putting it into the overall package.

"Really, the 46 was designed as a nickel defense," Ryan said. "It wasn't really the base of my father, either. It just started stopping everything so it became a base."

Without getting too technical, the 46 attempts to confuse and swallow quarterbacks with its eight-man front. It features four down linemen, three linebackers and a safety close to the line of scrimmage. The two outside linebackers may overload the same side.

It's tough to run and pass against. But it does leave the cornerbacks vulnerable because they have only one deep safety to help. 49ers coach Bill Walsh schooled everyone on beating the 46 by spreading receivers across the field and delivering short passes.

Now every team uses forms of the spread offense, and that's why the 46 dried up. Until the Ryans -- Rob and his twin brother, Rex -- ascended as defensive coordinators, only Tennessesse's Jeff Fisher, who played for Buddy Ryan, used it on occasion.

But when Ryan and Mangini spent time "masterminding" schemes for Belichick in New England at the start of this decade, Mangini forced Ryan to show him videotapes of the Bears 46. Mangini wanted to learn everything about the devious scheme.

"Eric is a huge fan of the 46," Ryan said. "In New England, you'd be tired after working two-a-days and you're ready to go to bed and he would be like, 'No, put those tapes on for an hour and let's watch it.' He is the one who eventually got it into New England.

"We had so much success with it there. It's something that is definitely going to be a part of this package."

Ryan promises he will oversee "an attacking defense, an exciting defense, and we are going to play great football."

With Rob and Rex embarking on new phases of their careers -- Rex succeeded Mangini as Jets head coach -- this could be the year the 46 makes a comeback. After all, the twin brothers are 46 years old this year, at least until Dec. 13.

More Ryan: Rob said his father expects to visit the Browns for the start of training camp. Buddy Ryan, who had a record of 55-58-1 as head coach of the Eagles and Cardinals, is enjoying retirement in Kentucky. He is 75. ... Rob Ryan heaped effusive praise on Mangini. "He is so relentless that he makes you win," he said. "I think he had probably more to do with us having success in New England than probably anybody except Tom Brady. I mean, I'll give him his due. But really, he is that good of a coach." Belichick surely will clip and save that one. The Browns won't play the Patriots until 2010 -- unless they meet this season in a playoff game.
Brownie bits: The Browns have not yet finalized their training camp schedule. So far they are confirming only that the first team practice open to fans will be Aug. 1 and their traditional Family Day team scrimmage at Cleveland Browns Stadium will be Aug. 9. ... Former Browns quarterback Bernie Kosar will return as analyst on Browns preseason games on WKYC Channel 3. ... Former Browns receiver and Cleveland native Steve Sanders was picked by New York in the inaugural United Football League draft this week.

Quick outs: Belichick canceled his team's final minicamp practice last week. That was a tipoff that Mangini would follow suit, and he sure did. ... Nobody is expecting the Bengals to be better except the Bengals. Perhaps because he's healthy again, quarterback Carson Palmer is bubbling with optimism. "In my seven years here, this has been as good as it's been," he said at the team's minicamp this week. ... If Denver receiver Brandon Marshall ends up in Baltimore, the Ravens would join Pittsburgh, New England, Indianapolis and San Diego in the upper tier of the AFC. ... Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger shot 81 at Bethpage Black, site of the U.S. Open, in the made-for-TV U.S. Open Challenge. Michael Jordan, playing in the same group, shot 86. ... Other notables drafted by the UFL: Canton native and former Ohio State star Mike Doss (Orlando), former Browns tight end Keith Heinrich (Orlando), Ohio State linebacker Anthony Schlegel (Orlando). The four-team league plans to play on Thursday and Friday evenings this fall.

On the '46' ....the Bears also had the advantage of what amounted to 11 All-stars playing it.

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On the '46' ....the Bears also had the advantage of what amounted to 11 All-stars playing it.

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I was wondering who would point that out .. I could care less what the scheme is .. its all about TALENT ... and the more talent U have the more aggresive u can be ...

Ryan wants to be aggresive now .. we'll see what happens when the real bullets start flying .. if he has the talent he will be aggresive ..

being aggresive with our D last year would have been suicide .. ya I know .. it was bad enough so what's the difference .. well it could have actually been alot worse ..

luckily for us this year Ryan has the injured guys back the kids have another year of experience and he has a few new toys to play with ... so we should be able to be more aggresive .. how much more aggresive depends on how good these guys can fill the roles ....

Not to argue, but the scheme was a Catch 22 that allowed some of those guys to become All-stars. It's a triple-mixed bag of marbles --- talent, scheme and coaching. Pour the marbles out of the bag, then it's a crapshoot. Time will tell; I'm just gonna be patient (not one my my virtues,...)

I think all three of these marbles have had some chips repaired though.

Not to argue??? .. u do know who I am don't u .. i argue with people that agree with me ...

I agree .. all 3 definetly play into it .. and theres no doubt that good/great talent with a good/great scheme and coaching is going to produce AWESOME RESULTS for everyone .... no doubt that when those three ingredients are in the bag the marbles are gonna be real real shiny ...

but w/o the talent .. the other two aspects are severly severly handcuffed ... lets put it this way ,,,

TALENT can overcome a flawed scheme and not so solid coaching ..

scheme and coaching can't overcome a lack of talent ...

w/o the talent the coaching is dead in the water no matter what .. all they can do is minimize it as best they can ...

talent on the other hand can overcome some flaws in the other two areas ...

Talent is definetly the horse while coaching and scheme are the cart in this situation ...

I think weer on the same page .. even in the same paragraph and actually in the same sentance ... just like earlier in this thread .. were just discussing weather its tomato or tomata ....

When has it ever been "tomata"....??

*L* .. i thought it sounded stupid ..

tomAto .... tomOto ...

THERE ya go !! (Sometimes I actually "get it,...")

The key to any aggressive attacking style defense is a defensive line that can occupy the pocket.

Now if I am understanding what we are installing correctly then we will often see the the front 3 really bunched shoulder to shoulder and the DE/OLBs lined up about 2 yards wide of the line on each side. This is to drive the pocket and force the play into those designed gaps.

I cant wait to see who emerges on this defensive line to join Rodgers. I expect Rodgers will see time at DE as well as at NT. Moving him around to keep the D from locking down on him to easy.

I know most of the talk about competition is at quarterback and offensive line but the best competition could very well be at DL. Rubin could be a surprise due to his initial pop. He will be competitng with Leonard and Sean Smith.

Williams, Robaire, Mosely, Coleman arent guaranteed anything. I believe Williams will be a better fit than many are predicting if we run a scheme a bit more similar to what Rex ran in Balitmore.

Robaire I hope for the best but expect the worst. 300lb men with achiles injuries do not have a good history.

It is an exciting time if you are a fan of trench warfare. You have 4 starting spots on the offensive line up for competition and they are competing with a hungry bunch of defensive linemen fighting for 2 starting spots and also a roster spot.

"Now if I am understanding what we are installing correctly then we will often see the the front 3 really bunched shoulder to shoulder and the DE/OLBs lined up about 2 yards wide of the line on each side."

Not so sure on that...read a quote or possibly just a stated as fact in an article that Ryan wants his DE's outside the OT's shoulders (5 tech). Forcing help on the overload with OLB...leaving the 3 interior to concern themselves with Rogers but expect the guard to pull outside the OT (I know we did) of course leaving a gaping hole up the middle makes sense to me - of course talking about passing downs and that is when I also expect to see his 46 as again it was designed to be a Nickel Defense the amazing D talent on the Bears made it a force for a Base D...so I expect us to use it as the original concept NICKEL D and if we happen to have the talent can use it more n more on some running plays as well!

JMHO

Winning the game of trench warfare is completely basic to the contest -- both sides of the ball.

I personally want Quinn to win this thing, but better offensive line play will be a big boon to either he or Derek.

And if the 'D' does come through, that's even more time for the 'O' to get better with more snaps. It's a round robin, but if they get it rolling right, the snowball never gets to Hades.

I remember the quote as well and he said that they'll be using 4 and 5.

"they'll be using 4 and 5."

Technique? or DLmen?

Oh and thank you for verifying that I'm not crazy

technique.

and you are crazy. i read your other posts.

And for others that do not know what that means....

(4 tech) the D-Lineman lines up straight up with the nose of the offensive tackle.
(5 tech) the D-Lineman lines up with the offensive tackle's outside shoulder.

talkin'

TERRY'S TALKIN' ABOUT THE BROWNS AND ROB RYAN. . . .

1. It was fun to hear new defensive coordinator Rob Ryan say: "We want to be multiple [defenses] and we want to have multiple players who can play different spots and cause confusion." That was his reputation as the defensive coordinator in Oakland, and the Browns need some creativity. Playing the bland, passive 3-4 seems to leave the defense on the field forever and does nothing to stop the run.


2. Will Ryan actually do that? The Sporting News rated the top 20 defensive coordinators based on interviews with scouts. They had Ryan at No. 18 with these comments: "He uses a fair amount of formations to keep opponents guessing. Look for a lot of different formations and movement within the Browns' 3-4 scheme, which will look a lot like brother Rex's hybrid scheme made famous in Baltimore. We will see a lot of press coverage by the cornerbacks and be aggressive, mostly using man-to-man. It is a fairly simple defense that relies on the guys up front to apply pressure while the back seven concentrates on coverage."

3. Some people have said it's up to Ryan to revive the career of Kamerion Wimbley. Well, Ryan said they will move the outside linebacker to different spots, not just having him line up directly over the tackle as was the case last season. Former GM Phil Savage begged the coaches to be more creative with Wimbley, who is not a power-rusher. But the Browns didn't see to have any idea of how best to use the speed that helped Wimbley get 11 sacks as a rookie in 2006. In the past two seasons, he dropped to 5.0 sacks, then 4.0. His total tackles are up, but he has not been the pass rusher the Browns need.

John Kuntz/The Plain DealerKamerion Wimbley is going to have to get it together if the defense has any chance at meaningful improvement.
4. Ryan said this about Wimbley: "The young man has great ability to rush the passer. . . . the guy has great talent. . . . he's a hard worker and does what the coaches ask him to do. . . . We've asked him to concentrate on pushing the pocket and using more bull rush and speed rushing. . . . the guy does it every day. I really think he is going to have a tremendous year for us."
5. I have been praising Shaun Rogers for months, and I hoped I wasn't being blinded by watching him each week. But this came from "The League," an excellent blog from the Washington Post: "With apologies to Kris Jenkins, Jay Ratliff, and the Williamses of Minnesota, Rogers gets the nod here because he did so much with so little around him. Frequently doubled (especially as the nose tackle in a 3-4 set, where he was just about impossible to stop), Rogers still managed to make a lot of plays that weren't going to be made if he didn't make them. With a new coaching staff in place, Rogers might have a better shot as a real disrupter as opposed to a target, but no lineman was done fewer favors by the players around him."

6. Ryan on Rogers: "He is a tremendous physical specimen. He is so athletic for a big man. I've been around the best in football. I've been around Warren Sapp in college. . . . I coached Jamal Williams and Kevin Williams, a couple of decent All-Pro defensive tackles. . . . Shaun Rogers is tremendous. Absolutely tremendous. Any system that he plays in, he is going to be dominant."

7. Browns head coach Eric Mangini believes Rogers can be a leader of the defense because the 360-pounder has the intelligence and charisma to inspire teammates while making the proper reads on different plays. While Rogers came to the Browns last summer with the reputation of being moody and fat, he has been in football shape and responsive to coaching in Cleveland. Sometimes, a fresh start is exactly what a player needs.

8. There are real concerns about Corey Williams, who had trouble switching from the 4-3 in Green Bay to the 3-4 with the Browns last season. Ryan said: "It's hard to evaluate. I'd like to answer your question, but I can't at this time. I don't know the young man well enough to say how he's going to do. . . . I'd like to tell you more about Corey Williams, but I don't want to lie."

9. Along with wanting an upgrade at inside linebacker over Andra Davis, the Browns also signed Eric Barton to teach D'Qwell Jackson the nuances of the position. Both played at Maryland. Barton is 31, Jackson is 25. Jackson watched and admired how Barton played in college. They are connecting, and the new defense stresses leadership and "mental toughness" from the inside linebackers.

10. Along with what Ryan does with Wimbley, it will be fascinating to see if he can maximize the raw talent of outside linebacker Alex Hall, who can be the team's best pass rusher. The progress of Wimbley and Hall will say a lot about the chances of the defense making a significant improvement.