DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum AFC North Offseason Report Card (ESPN) (Browns get a D+)

The Browns (?) Screw up a draft (?)

No way,...say it ain't so.

You better check out your history before posting without a link,....

WONDERFUL woohoo Isn't Walker one of the idiots who said we would suck in 2007 and then that we would be great in 2008 The so called experts know less about the Browns than your average fan IMO

lol.

To the topic at hand:

We're not that much better off than we were at the start of FA, on the other hand, we're not that much worse off than we were either. It certainly isn't surprising that we didn't make a big splash in FA, maybe a little disappointing given the needs at certain positions, but not surprising. It's clear big bucks were never going to be spent during the FA period. Let's face it, FA it the time when the most talented players are usually extremely overpaid.

On the plus side we've gained a couple picks for a banged up TE with personality issues, and added useful depth at a position or two. On the negative side, we're still left with gaping holes at C, RG, RT, WR, S, CB, LB, & RB. Aside from the safety position, IMO, these are the same holes we had at the start of FA. We can argue the legitimacy of Jones until the cows come home, but like him or not, his departure left a huge gap.

The problem that has me feeling queasy is that, while of those 8 holes possibly 3 can be filled temporarily, we only have 3 legitimate picks to attempt to fill the other 5 holes. That is where we could have used the help in FA. The D grade is warranted. The + is hyperbole.

On another note, I don't see this season as either a tear down, or rebuild or whatever you want to call it, I see it as more of a reassessment, reevaluation of value, and in that sense, I see it as a good thing. Given the fact that there was a coaching and a GM change this year, the revamping is more excessive than we would have expected had their not been those changes, but nowhere near as extreme as a major overhaul would have been had they come in attempting to change the systems or had the complete lack of talent that RAC and Savage were faced with. But again, the scary part is that we most likely will be left with several gaping holes going into the season.

JMHO

I just have a general question .....

Just how many starters should stay from a 4-12 team?

I mean ... "Oh my God! They're tearing down a rebuilding the team!!!" (Horrified look) Well duh ..... this team SUCKED last year. Of course they're going to rebuild it.

Well,...it's not a rebuild.

It's a retool,...revamp, reassess, remodel, reconstruct,...

And we're not done counting "real" starters that are returning,....someone told me yesterday that because Anderson is a returning starter, amongst 42 others that are still on the roster, that this isn't a rebuild. Good night, now even Rodgers is flapping his gums--by not flapping his arms in the weight room. When you have to change attitudes, you are rebuilding.

Quote:

---

Just how many starters should stay from a 4-12 team?

I mean ... "Oh my God! They're tearing down a rebuilding the team!!!" (Horrified look) Well duh ..... this team SUCKED last year. Of course they're going to rebuild it.

--------------------

---

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Man I was hoping someone would say it before I did. This team sucked last year. IMO we didn't lose anything.

Our safeties sucked so we let one go and brought back the back up that when he was in seemed to be a better fit. Gaping hole? GMAFB

Shaffer was castigated constantly. He sucked as far as most were concerned, yet now he's gone and we're doomed to rebuild. St. Clair might actually be a better fit. Different team and scheme who knows. Womack is an upgrade to Young and Sowells. Gaping hole? GMAFB!

Wright signs with another team. I don't know his numbers, but I'm sure he won't be missed. His blocking was good, but isn't that what a FB is for? Lewis and Harrison are still here and we have Herron as the Wright fill in. Gaping hole? GMAFB!!

Now LB is a little different. Ours sucked right? DQ was the best as the concensus seems to be. Wimbley is still Wimbley. McGinest is 100 years old and is juked out by Rothlisbugger at least twice a year, he's gone as he should be. Oh no we let Andra Davis go! Davis was the gaping hole in the run defense, should have been gone a couple years ago. Hall is a promising young player that showed some talent when forced to start BEFORE HE WAS READY. We now have Barton who is an upgrade to Davis. Bowens is a situational player probably on par with Orr. We still have Bell for what it's worth.
So with that, sure we have holes, but they weren't made by Mangini and Kokinis, that is unless you feel keeping Davis and McGinest were better moves. Holes yes, gaping? Not so much, we basically sit right now about where we were during the season.

WR, ah now this is a bad situation. Love him or hate him, Edwards is a top ten NFL reciever. JJ was old and injured, he had to go for the money he wanted. It is even debateable if he could have even been the player he was. Steptoe had some moments, but he's not a #2. With the experience he got last year, he could help in the slot. Cribbs IMO should not be looked at as a WR. So here, I can agree with a gaping hole.

Now please don't confuse this with me saying the moves made were the right thing or better than any thing else, but basically except for WR and depth at safety and LB, this team has not gotten worse so far in this offseason, but maybe they have actually gotten a little better in a "team" sort of way.

Many are bashing the OL moves, but if St. Clair turns out to be better than Shaffer and Tucker or Womack play better than Hadnot at gaurd, we may actually have gotten stronger than we think.

But as YTB stated, we were 4-12 . We already sucked, Mangini and Kokinis are not the cause of that.

Right now its appears the Browns have the most issues of any AFC North to address.

1. No established starting QB.
2. A aging Jamal Lewis has to be replaced
3. The starting 2009 center will be (insert name)
4. If Stallworth isn't available to play in 2009,who is the #2 WR?
5.Shaun Rogers isn't happy write now.
6. Can Kamerion Wimbley live up to his expectations?
7.Who are the leaders on this football team?
8. Who will rise up and establish themselves as playmakers on defense?
9. Can Mangini and Kokinis relate to a impatient fanbase?
10. Will Braylon Edwards be 100% happy this season?

Quote:

---

I just have a general question .....

Just how many starters should stay from a 4-12 team?

---

Well lets see ....

Brey .... check
Donte ... check .. and if he can't its oviously not football related as we pd his bonus
KW - Bye Bye
Hieden ... check

Thomas .... check ...
Stieny ..... check ...
Fraley .... possibly
Tuck .. check
Shaf ... Bye Bye ..

Lewis ... check ..
BQ ... check ... .

that looks like 8 or 9 out of 11 on O ...

Williams ... check
Rogrs .... check
Smith ,,,, check

Kam .. check ...
DQ .. check
Dra .. SEE YA ...
Willie .. tanks for the memories

Wright .... check
McDonald .. check
Pool ... check
Jones ... BOOO (may as well get him used to Phili .. ... )

looks like 8 out of 11 on D ...

so that 17 out of 22 starters more than likely back ...

YA .. THATS A RE-BUILD ...

looks more like its a CONTIUATION of the BUILDING process that we were in ..

I have no clue what u guys are thinking when u say were re-building .. it blows my mind ... i think its retarded for u to even insuate were re-building ..

WE CAN WIN RIGHT NOW .. wait till after the draft ...

This isn't really that outlandish of a claim for me to make, but I foresee an improvement in the W-L column this year.

I agree...this isn't a re-building year...so far, we have gained a few starters in FA, and definitely added much needed depth to our roster with veterans..and fter the draft I can see adding probably 3 more starters maybe.......HOPEFULLY....