DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cleveland needs big ideas to reinvent itself

I thought this was somewhat interesting and could make for good conversations

Cleveland needs big ideas to reinvent itself
by Phillip Morris/Plain Dealer Columnist

In case you missed the report: Cleveland went into default at midnight, threatening 20 percent of city workers with layoffs, including 875 police officers and approximately 400 firefighters. Garbage was to be collected twice monthly.

The head of the Cleveland Patrolman Association predicted that crime would spiral out of control. And the fire union chief warned that his men were "militant." A grim mayor acknowledged that Cleveland would suffer greatly. But he said punishing cuts were are unavoidable.

The year was 1978. The mayor was Dennis Kucinich.

He was a strange but tough West Side politician who inherited the fallout from Ralph Perk's spendthrift ways and was engaged in war with Cleveland's banks. He was also in a bruising battle to keep ownership of the city's electric company.

Kucinich won a few battles -- the power company wasn't sold -- but lost the war. After default, he left office and spent years in the wilderness before reinventing himself as a congressman and perennial presidential candidate.

Cleveland is still wandering the wilderness. It has yet to reinvent.

Historians looking to chart the municipal implosion of our once powerful city will point to the defection of heavy manufacturing, court-ordered school desegregation and race riots as the accelerants of decline.

But the seminal event that sent Cleveland's decline into warp speed was default. This city never fully recovered from the stigma of being the first to default since the Depression.

It seems fair to ask what lessons we have learned about governing ourselves as we continue our descent.

The rest of nation suffers the effect of the recent global recession. Can we teach them anything? What have we taken from our decades-old "recession" that can translate into municipal reinvention?

Nothing. And why is that? We stare at the ground instead of the heavens. We're a city of shadowboxers.

Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson announced this week a plan to change the city's drug laws. Next year, people arrested with crack pipes and syringes will be charged with misdemeanors.

He's shadowboxing.

His idea is to steer drug users into treatment and to align Cleveland's drug laws with those of other Ohio cities. The idea is to unshackle addicts from the anti-employment stigma of felonious convictions.

The move is not without merit. A teeming drug and crime subculture has its hands around the city's neck. Jackson's often-stated passion is reserved for, "the least of these."

In the meantime, Cleveland continues to hemorrhage jobs and population. The city gasps for life.

Why is our mayor shadowboxing?

The same goes for the Cleveland City Council and the Cuyahoga County commissioners. Why is Jackson hugging crackheads while we watch Cleveland burn?

Where is the big idea, like Akron Mayor Don Plusquellic's proposal to lease the city sewer system to create a $200 million scholarship fund for city kids? Voters rejected the plan in November, but Plusquellic got people talking. He's a mayor full of big ideas. Maybe his next one will take hold.

If Cleveland has a chance to again thrive, we need a new class of heavyweight fighters, like Plusquellic. The shadowboxers evidence no ability to get us up off the canvas.

as someone that was sort of forced to leave Cleveland to find a good-paying job, here's my take:

Cleveland has some good ideas that they need to pursue.

A. With Obama in office, going hard after "green energy" companies to pursue for the area will be key. They will be getting gov't $$$ and that means even more jobs than they would have been able to generate without such assitance.

B. With the Cleveland Clinic gaining more and more national respect, go after the Biomedical companies. Get them to relocate or open new offices in the area. Become a national center for the biomed field.

Those are two things I have read a lot about lately with Cleveland but seen little progress on. They are good ideas, but worth nothing if they aren't executed properly.

I'm with you on the green energy part, but Cleveland has been going after Biotech companies for years as far as I know.

I'm kind of a radical thinker myself in how to change Cleveland, but something HAS GOT to be done. First and foremost, I'm sick of all the bureaucratic feet dragging that goes on in the city. The schools are crap, the city is dirty, and downtown becomes a ghost town except for the warehouse district and East 4th.

Personally, and I know many will vehemently disagree, but I think that we should get rid of Burke Lake Front Airport and start constructing nice high-rise condominiums along the lakefront (A la Chicago). It would be a nice place to live with easy access to downtown and it could really help revitalize the near east side.

Secondly, we need to figure out a way to allow grass-root midsize companies to grow...especially if they are on the path to going public.

Thirdly, and I have no idea how the hell to do this, but we need to really really really fix up our schools and PREVENT the brain drain. The city is getting dumber and that's why they keep electing mayors like Jackson, Campbell, and White.

And why shouldn't someone like Jackson or any of the democrats be complacent. I don't even mean this to be political (if it were the other way around, I would say the same thing), but that side of the coin has kept the city with its face buried in the sand for years. The problem is that there is no legitimate threat from the other side which breeds complacency. Hell, Detroit has the same thing going on. You can even be a criminal up there and be elected mayor.

But that's JMHO. I really really want to see Cleveland become a better place.

I agree....Cleveland has been after drug/bio companies for a long time as the CC has had a world reputation for a long time.

Face it, they aren't moving there.

I am not as sold on the green as some other are. However..one area the city could make an impact is wind generated energy.

I would call T.Boone Picken to come up to Cleveland. Why couldn't Cleveland embark on a plan to construct an array of windmills out in the lake??....500 of the things as big or bigger than the one at the science center. How many days a year is the wind not blowing in Cleveland?? Not many.

Become the city to attract the companies that build the things...be the world leader.

Rather than burn coal to generate the heat to power your city power company, use those to generate the heat to heat Lake Erie water to steam the power company.

Clevelands problem is lack of tax money. They don't generate enough to support what is there and have to overtax the few who live there to keep it going.

If heavy industry is a thing of the past, which it looks like it is, Cleveland is going to have to do something or risk being a ghost town....which isn't impossible. There have been many great cities in the history of the world that no longer exist.

What we may be seeing is a true change of eras...the slow decline of a great civilization...now I am talking beyond the scope of just Cleveland.....but that is for another day.

Wind Power & Lake Erie are a natural combination and one in which we DEFINITELY should be exploiting & investing ourselves.... I don't know if there is the space for 500 of them, but after leaving the shipping lanes open and such, we should easily be able to squeeze 100 in without getting into ridiculously deep water (those things DO need plenty of space between them). Putting them on the skyscrapers as well would be a nice idea, too.... get those things up into the higher winds.

That would be a GREAT way to attract the Green businesses as well as reduce the city's energy costs (once the project is built, that is).


There are only two ways to revitalize Cleveland, however.

The first is to bring in more/new industries such as Medical Mart, the Green companies, etc... to build the business tax base. The problem here is convincing businesses to come here rather than San Diego or Virginia Beach or Chicago.

The second is to build the "life" of downtown by getting people living down there so that there is activity and spending 8am-6pm, Mon-Fri, other than the W.6th Bar District. The problem here is a Catch-22. Getting small businesses to open down there for the people when there are no people, and then getting people down there when there isn't much in the way of daily shopping. Add in that the city is dirty and not entirely safe down there at night once you get away from W.6th... and it's a tough sell for most people outside of the younger, single folks. Married couples and families will still move to the 'burbs (which takes two incomes out of the city), if for nothing else than Cleveland's school systems are the definition of Suck.

These are ALL issues that have been in the news as far as the city trying to change things, but there haven't been many results. Medical Mart is a joke that will never happen.... we're like 3 years into the project and there is not even a site selected nor a blueprint for a building... yet we've been paying taxes toward it. The new Euclid Corridor project might improve things a little bit, but I'm not going to hold my breath on that one. The Flats' revitalization project will help some, but it's a year or two off, at best... they're still clearing ground down there.

I understand on the numbers....I just used 500 in a effort to convey the scale of the operation...I don't know what number would work...just make it the max number.

I also agree you have to get people living in the city...the city doesn't generate much in taxes anyway....set up tax free zones or something along those lines. As people move in, the demand for markets and services will be there....people have to shop for real priced food rather than the expensive stuff in the few half assed markets now in place. The will need dry-cleaners, drug stores,....you name it.

Really cheap electricity for city residents...there are lot's of things you can do.....but at the beginning, the city needs to be bold and take a risk....that or continue to lose 5,000 people and jobs a year.

Wind power and lake Erie Thanks for getting on the ball with that one George

People call Chicago the windy city when Cleveland is just as windy as Chicago when it comes to average wind speed.

http://www.met.utah.edu/jhorel/html/wx/climate/windavg.html

The issue has always been getting people to come downtown, and stay downtown. Im tired of beating my head against a wall We have a tremendous resource in Lake Erie and we do little to nothing to compliment it.

Restaurants, bars, a casino

If it were up to me I would tear up Burke Front Lake airport and start there. It boggles the mind why we dont do more

Quote:

---

If it were up to me I would tear up Burke Front Lake airport and start there. It boggles the mind why we dont do more

---

$$$$$$$$$$$$$ budgets are stripped thin, Federal money is becoming less & less, and only goes so far, the rest is from Tax payers approving a new Levy (Good luck getting it passed) & from investors who quite frankly dont wanna invest right now and if they do it's mostly down south, where population growth means to them more people to visit thier facility, it's hard to get people to invest in a place where population in decreasing every year, to an investor that means less & less people visiting his place meaning less & less $$$$$ every year.

Good find.

The average car in 1919 might have been 40hp...efforts to improve that worked.

Why not seek ways to improve the output of todays average wind turbine??

I am no engineer or expert in physics, but I don't believe it can't be improved.

I am sure at one point the top engineers of the day said you couldn't build a building over X feet, or flying could never be attained.

on a side note we have recently made strides in photovoltaics (solar panels)

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/11/12/solar.coating/index.html

"The coating boost sunlight-absorption rates from 67.4 to 96.21 percent"

Quote:

---

The issue has always been getting people to come downtown, and stay downtown. Im tired of beating my head against a wall We have a tremendous resource in Lake Erie and we do little to nothing to compliment it.

Restaurants, bars, a casino

---

Those areas are nice, but before resturants & bars, small corner stores, small locally ownes buisness the area first needs to build it's intrastructural job base. Small buisness dont or cant survive with bigger ones around them, resturants wont survive without local people coming there, and local people without jobs wont come, good paying strong jobs are the key, What built cleveland up before, Steel mills, boating industry, I dont know enough about Cleveland industrial history but I can bet it was good paying jobs, when people have money they look to spend and this brings in the small buisness owners, more jobs, more people, more survive jobs, plumbers, electritions, barbars, nurces, and it all starts around a sound strong job core which has left Cleveland / Detroit ect. automakers Steel plants were this for years, they leave others follow. Casinos would be nice & this will bring in out of staters, but we really need jobs, to bring & keep local people coming.

Local people are the cornerstone of your buisness, outsiders are added profit every month. you cant count on them but ya sure appricate them.

I am not in favor of tearing anything up...who knows how a city airport will help somewhere down the road.

When I was a kid, a electric train ran down Clifton Blvd from downtown out to Rocky River until they finally ripped it out in the early 60's...before that, it ran out to Avon Lake....I had friends who lived on "Electric", which at one time was the right of way for the electric train system.....you can still find concrete pillars crossing creeks and such.

Today....how would a electric train system from downtown to the far west side play out? Pretty well I think.


Some cool pics and a article below.

http://images.ulib.csuohio.edu/cdm4/resu...ric+Railway+Co.


http://blog.cleveland.com/pdextra/2007/08/quiet_clean_electric_rail_syst.html

Yes, they need to be bold and creative.. it seems to me that every politician keeps promising to save manufacturing jobs, well that is a self-defeating promise.. they may hold onto them a little longer but they are deteriorating, the only question is, at what rate.

In order to attract business you need to make concessions, HUGE concessions.. it's going to cost the city in the short term giving big tax benes to industry but in the end you generate an influx of people that become your tax base...

You can promote gaming and tourism in Cleveland to a point but c'mon, it's Cleveland.. who thinks of Cleveland as a great vacation spot when you can fly to vegas and back or the bahamas and back or Aspen and back for $300? That can only be a secondary part of the story.. the first part is industry without that, nothing else will work.

LOL.....I agree...I love Cleveland, but if the Browns weren't there, I wouldn't visit 5 times a year...to be honest...probably once every 10 years for some HS reunion would fill the need to go home.

I don't know what sort of outfit it is anymore, but at one time Case was known as a top flight technology research center.

Seems that would be a area to promote and put casinos on the back burner for a while.

They now talk about renovating the Flats...again....didn't they do that 25 years ago??

It now looks much the same as I remember it looking in 1965....dump titty bars,homeless people, gangesters, and hookers

Quote:

---

I agree....Cleveland has been after drug/bio companies for a long time as the CC has had a world reputation for a long time.

Face it, they aren't moving there.

---

Actually, we've been fairly successful getting some biotechs to move here from overseas.... Isreal to be exact.. Two have come over in the last 3 years.

It should also be pointed out that CWRU is sprouting biotech startups like some people grow tomatos around here..

They are finding that the Clinic and University Hospital as well as Case are very good magnets for biotech.

There are other things we need to attract as well.. but Biotech is getting better here..

I am sure it is....my point is it is already well established in the research triangle in N.Carolina and out in California.

I doubt Cleveland is going to become a hub for such activity.....but hey....you do what you can, and every bit helps....no doubt the area has enough resources.

The key is being cutting edge and attracting the next wave...and "green" seems to be it, with wind and water being a natural in that area.

I'm all for a green economy around here.. after all, we have been known for years at the "forest city"....

Makes sense for us to push green as an engine for growth... Can you imagine the wind power we could harness off the lake.. whew.. that would be entirely too cool..

My first job as a kid....real job anyway, was at Uncle Bills...I think that became Forest City some years later.....I was the goofy kid they always called to lug something from one part of the store to another, or out to a customers car or truck.

Quote:

---

The key is being cutting edge and attracting the next wave...

---

Yes it is and that is one of the reasons that Cleveland will struggle, the infrastructure is old and the mindset is that of old manufacturing... It's a tough call and there is no easy way out of it that won't involve a lot of risk and up front expenditure.

Question for you DC. You are the one that suggested a while back that my cousin and her fiance move to N. Carolina to get teaching jobs, as they were unable to get full time employment around here (by the way, they went down, planned on 5 days, each had a job the first day. They came back, packed their stuff, and moved)

According to you, and also to them, the need for teachers is huge. To me, that means schools are growing, which means people are moving in - which means jobs are readily available: So, what has N. Carolina done - how have they gotten so many jobs? (my cousin is in the charlotte area).

Or is it just a total lack of qualified teachers to fill a stagnant teaching market?

In my opinion the only real way to improve this city is to make it that people actually want to come here.

The only sure fire way I can think of doing that is to legalize gambling, Slap up some Casinos along the flats and maybe add something like riverboat gambling, maybe even a few dog and horse race tracks.

I'm sure there are many ideas but to me that seems to be the easiest and most logical means to bringing revenue into this city.

Why do so many think gambling is the answer?

Here's a thought: When no one has a job, are they going to gamble? When people are struggling to make the rent/mortgage payment, are they going to gamble? I know, for some, the answer is yes. Those are the people that contribute nothing to society anyway.

Why not reduce taxes, and bring in businesses that will pay a decent wage - so the citizens have expendable income?

Nah, let's just gamble.

Card dealer....now that's a profession to aspire to.....yep...that's it.

Quote:

---

Card dealer....now that's a profession to aspire to.....yep...that's it.

---

we live in a time of lowered expectations, or so it seems

Although my aunt (now retired) worked as a dealer in Vegas,, she made her 50K + a year so while it's not Doctor, Lawyer or Indian Chief, it paid the bills and it was an honest living....

That's great dude....it must run in the family.

Maybe you can become a Ouija Board salesman,.

You and shotty both cite examples of people working in Vegas, and I'm glad the people you cite made that kind of money.

Cleveland isn't Vegas.

Today's economy does not lend itself well to relying on people's discretionary income as a means of supporting a state, OR a city.

Again, cleveland is not a destination city like vegas. Nor will it ever be - not for gambling purposes, anyway. If people can't make the rent, are they going to gamble?

If a casino is built, and no one shows up, do the dealers make $50 g a year?

Better idea? Can't say I have one. But if gambling is such a cure all, with thousands of great paying jobs, why is Detroit in such dire straits? They have casinos, right? Hasn't helped detroit, let alone the state of michigan.

Why not drop taxes on busniesses that locate in Cleveland? Why not offer to build the buildings, or subsidize them, for businesses that agree to provide "x" number of jobs. Bring industry BACK to Cleveland, then worry about a casino - you know, when people have jobs that afford them the luxury of having spending money.

I hear all this talk about neighboring states that have gambling and how great they're doing. I will say one thing: Detroit.

Casino's are not all they are cracked up to be.

I completely understand what u are trying to say, however when you say Detroit don't you think that all they're failures are not a direct result of the insanely high amount of crime there?

Cleveland to be a Vegas?
I don't think so.
Think that Cleveland needs better ways to reinvent itself!

Gambling can't be an answer by itself, it could only be a part of an answer. It would have to be a part of a much broader initiative to get things going in the downtown area.

No, not really. The Ouija board comment was and would like to apologize for that.

How many here actually want their kids to grow up to be card dealers??

Look...I am not knocking it as a way to make a living, and I know many do...that wasn't the intent of the comment. I just don't think it is something one aspires to become...As Purp said...the gambling can be a part of the resurgence, but if you plan to make that the core, that is placing a pretty big bet...there are negatives associated with gambling.

The key is to get the city on solid footing. The town has resource in it's universities, hospitals, arts, and yes..still a pretty substantial manufacturing base compared to other areas. I think it is wise to make Cleveland a hub of brain power....build on that, because from that, the rest will come...as in outside money..and that is only the real way to grow,

A casino sounds great....but I just don't see people flocking to town to play blackjack. It might happen for a while, but for the most part it will be the same people shuffling around the same pile of money. True wealth and health happens when new money is brought in and is developed into something sustainable that makes the pie larger.

A casino will be a band-aid effort....it will help with some jobs right away and will attract some new money...but that money gets siphoned off as profits...it isn't going to be used to build something else.

Vegas can do it because they were the first to do it and they have the climate where people decided they wanted to live there...golf courses sprouted up....hotels....homes for the people working and supplying the industry...that won't happen in Cleveland...hundreds of thousands aren't going to decide to move there because of the casino and gambling industry for a wide variety of reasons.

If that is what the area is banking on...you might as well hit the roulette wheel and bet green double zero.


Oh...some good points on wind power....indeed there are challenges.

In the end, the technology might not be possible to power entire cities, but it could lead to the development of mill units that are smaller that can go on houses to supplement the power used by the home owner...and they run all the time there is wind....if you aren't using it at night, or during the day while away...the power companies have to but it from you if you put it into the line...your meter would run backwards if you weren't using the power generated....and they do have to buy it from you...you wouldn't need some sort of storage system.

In a place like Cleveland where the wind blows, I could see homes being able to cut their electric bills 70% or more...and there are lots of places in this world where the wind blows on a regular basis....be the place where the technology is developed to supply household units to the world.

And Daman....again,sorry for the jab...you irritated me somewhere else and I let it carry over to this thread...I usually don't do that...sorry.

You might have confused my low blow comment meaning I thought a casino was a good idea. I don't. I just thought the comment was in bad taste. I actually think turning Cleveland into a gambling hall is a terrible idea, pretty much for the reasons that have been cited in this thread.

No...I wasn't confused. I understood what you were saying.

Just a general comment:

I have lived in the Youngstown area for most of my life ....... and have seen politician after politician bring forth "plan" after "plan" ..... with little or no results.

I think that the problem with most "city revitalization" plans is that they think about huge (and decades long) problems on a small scale.

Restaurants aren't the answer. Clubs aren't the answer. Hell, even casinos aren't really the answer.

What is the answer? As the article suggests .... the city must decide what it wants to be an reinvent itself in that image.

I don't know a whole lot about Cleveland .... but I do know a lot about the plight and blight of Youngstown. Big wigs have tried to attract this business or that to the general downtown area. Unfortunately .... they really offer nothing except limited tax abatements. If you're moving into a blighted area ..... that really isn't all that exciting .... expecially if another community offers the same ..... and a better locale.

Youngstown (and I suspect Cleveland) needs bold initiatives. They need to raze entire areas and rebuild them into a functioning environment suitable for business and industry to move into. If you have a "project" housing area that is not habitable ..... force the owners to either rehabilitate it ...... level it ..... or lose it. Ditto for vacant, derelict buildings. Instead of worrying about how much of a raise rto give the city council menbers ..... maybe be proactive and productive with the citizens' money. Hell ..... if you have to go into debt to get this project off the ground ....by all means, do so. Put the supposed $82 gazillion in earmarks our Congressman brought home in his last term to good use for a change.

Next, as far as downtown living, I would guess that almost the entire population of the downtown Youngstown area can probably be found in one small assisted living building. If we had a developmental area in downtown ..... with business and small industry beginning to return to new facilities ...... new housing would be a natural follow. Then the support businesses, such as stores, grocers, restaurants, clubs, and bars follow.

Youngstown has long tried to build the support business end of things without having a "core" to build around. They have tried to patch together worn out buildings and faciluties.in a fruitless attempt to bring in small industry. Now they are trying to build around YSU. Now I love YSU ...... but YSU isn't Ohio State... or Florida State ...... Michigan ..... or any other campus that acts as a magnet for an area. Trying to build an area of business based on a small university isn't a winning plan. Unfortunately ..... small steps .... and little plans are all we get out of our local officials. Small steps excite no one. Small steps appear timid and weak. Bold action is what is required to reverse decades of decline .... not more of the same old "stuff".