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Unreal. Ariz. boy, 8, accused of killing 2, including dad By FELICIA FONSECA, Associated Press FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. – An 8-year-old boy is charged with murder in the shooting of his father and another man in a rural community in eastern Arizona, authorities said Friday. The boy was charged with two counts of premeditated murder in the death of his father, 29-year-old Vincent Romero, and 39-year-old Timothy Romans, St. Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick said. Police arrived at the home within minutes of the shooting Wednesday, Melnick said. They found one victim just outside the front door and the other dead in an upstairs room. The boy, who prosecutors say had never been in trouble before, initially denied involvement in the shooting but later confessed, Melnick said. Police have not said what they think the boy's motive was. Defense attorney Benjamin Brewer argued Friday that police overreached in questioning the boy without representation from a parent or attorney and did not advise him of his rights. "They became very accusing early on in the interview," Brewer said. "Two officers with guns at their side, it's very scary for anybody, for sure an 8-year-old kid." A judge determined at a hearing Friday that there was probable cause to believe the boy committed the killings. He is being held at the Apache County juvenile detention center. St. Johns is a community of about 4,000 people about 170 miles northeast of Phoenix. ** Quote:
Two officers with guns at their side, it's very scary for anybody, for sure an 8-year-old kid.
Are you friken kidding me? Typical lawyer,,,the kid just murdered (ok accused of murder) 2 people with a gun and this guy actually said this?  I'm sorry but that's funny. The kid may be 8 but when you murder 2 people at 8 years old your not acting like a typical kid intimidated by cops with a couple of pistols on their side. Since both were shot in separate parts of the house I doubt it "accidently" went off and this kid is scared of guns. Give me a break
Our honor defend, we will fight to the end, for OHIO! GO BUCKS!
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Lawyers will try to turn anything around. Sometimes they say the most absurd things.
What a damn shame. An 8 year old..... what is going on in society. A lot of this has to be overexposure to this type of stuff- TV, movies, videogames, internet.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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POST DELETED-MASKED PROFANITY
Last edited by Referee1; 11/08/08 10:50 AM.
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POST DELETED
Last edited by Referee1; 11/08/08 10:50 AM.
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That's just a sad story anyway you slice it.
LET'S GO BROWNS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/OldSixty-Two/new0400001.jpg) [b]WOOF WOOF[b]
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
Lawyers will try to turn anything around. Sometimes they say the most absurd things.
What a damn shame. An 8 year old..... what is going on in society. A lot of this has to be overexposure to this type of stuff- TV, movies, videogames, internet.
I think we all should learn more about this particular case before we go blaming it on TV and video games...
Cleveland Browns, Space Browns ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/iVP5Po2.png)
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Quote:
Quote:
Lawyers will try to turn anything around. Sometimes they say the most absurd things.
What a damn shame. An 8 year old..... what is going on in society. A lot of this has to be overexposure to this type of stuff- TV, movies, videogames, internet.
I think we all should learn more about this particular case before we go blaming it on TV and video games...
Wasn't blaming this particular case on that, I was talking about society as a whole. You see a lot of this type of stuff. Kids committing violent crimes, copycat stuff. A lot of that may be coming from influencs in the media.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Lawyers will try to turn anything around. Sometimes they say the most absurd things.
What a damn shame. An 8 year old..... what is going on in society. A lot of this has to be overexposure to this type of stuff- TV, movies, videogames, internet.
I think we all should learn more about this particular case before we go blaming it on TV and video games...
Wasn't blaming this particular case on that, I was talking about society as a whole. You see a lot of this type of stuff. Kids committing violent crimes, copycat stuff. A lot of that may be coming from influencs in the media.
Priest: Slain dad had taught boy, 8, to use guns
By FELICIA FONSECA, Associated Press Writer Felicia Fonseca, Associated Press Writer
ST. JOHNS, Ariz. – A man who police believe was shot and killed by his 8-year-old son had consulted a Roman Catholic priest about whether the boy should handle guns and had taught him how to use a rifle, the clergyman said Saturday.
The father, Vincent Romero, 29, was from a family of avid hunters and wanted to make sure the boy wasn't afraid of guns, said the Very Rev. John Paul Sauter of St. Johns Catholic Church. The boy's stepmother had suggested he have a BB gun, the priest said.
Romero taught his son how to use a rifle to kill prairie dogs, Sauter said. Police say the boy used a .22-caliber rifle Wednesday to kill his father and another man, Timothy Romans, 39, of San Carlos.
The priest did not say how he advised the couple but said Saturday that the boy "was just too young."
"That child, I don't think he knows what he did, and it was brutal," Sauter said.
The boy, who faces two counts of premeditated murder, did not act on the spur of the moment, St. Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick said. Police are looking into whether he might have been abused.
"I'm not accusing anybody of anything at this point," he said Saturday. "But we're certainly going to look at the abuse part of this. He's 8 years old. He just doesn't decide one day that he's going to shoot his father and shoot his father's friend for no reason. Something led up to this."
The boy's father and stepmother had gotten married in September, said Sauter, who presided over the wedding.
Romero had full custody of the child. The boy's mother had visited St. Johns from Mississippi the previous weekend and returned to Arizona after the shootings, said Apache County Attorney Brad Carlyon.
On Friday, a judge ordered a psychological evaluation of the boy. Under Arizona law, charges can be filed against anyone 8 or older.
The boy had no record of complaints with Arizona Child Protective Services, Carlyon said.
"He had no record of any kind, not even a disciplinary record at school," he said. "He has never been in trouble before."
In a sign of the emotional and legal complexities of the case, police are pushing to have the boy tried as an adult even as they investigate possible abuse, Melnick said. If convicted as a minor, the boy could be sent to juvenile detention until he turns 18.
"We're going to use every avenue of the law that's available to us, but we're also looking at the human side," he said.
The boy's lawyer, Benjamin Brewer, said his client is generally in good spirits.
"He's scared," he said. "He's trying to be tough, but he's scared."
Police are also investigating whether there were any domestic violence calls to the Romero home in the past, Melnick said.
Officers arrived at Romero's home within minutes of the shooting Wednesday in St. Johns, which has a population of about 4,000 and is 170 miles northeast of Phoenix. They found one victim just outside the front door and the other dead in an upstairs room.
Romans had been renting a room at the Romero house, prosecutors said. Both men were employees of a construction company working at a power plant near St. Johns.
The boy went to a neighbor's house and said he "believed that his father was dead," Carlyon said.
Melnick said police got a confession, but Brewer said police overreached in questioning the boy without representation from a parent or attorney and did not advise him of his rights.
FBI statistics show instances of children younger than 11 committing homicides are very rare. According to recent FBI supplementary homicide reports, there were at least three such cases each year in 2003, 2004 and 2005; there were at least 15 in 2002. More recent statistics weren't available, nor were details of the cases.
Our honor defend, we will fight to the end, for OHIO! GO BUCKS!
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Very odd story. Usually kids who are raised around guns are taught to use them responsibly, and firearm safety is really stressed. So to hear some story like this is kind of a head-scratcher.
I think that their has to be more to the story. And as for the police interrogating the kid---totally unexceptable---at least without some parent or lawyer present. I'm sure no one would want their kid talking on the record without them or some guardian present.
I really wonder why this transpired---and if the kid did in fact kill his father and his fathers friend. The rest of the story is necessary before any real judgement can be made.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Legend
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Quote:
In a sign of the emotional and legal complexities of the case, police are pushing to have the boy tried as an adult even as they investigate possible abuse,
I just don't agree with this. I know I don't have all the facts, but the kid is 8. To even think of trying him as an adult just seems wrong.
He's 8, not 16 or 17 - at those ages I could understand, but at 8?
Also, the police don't determine if he even gets prosecuted, let alone as an adult, do they?
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Quote:
Are you friken kidding me? Typical lawyer,,,the kid just murdered (ok accused of murder) 2 people with a gun and this guy actually said this? I'm sorry but that's funny. The kid may be 8 but when you murder 2 people at 8 years old your not acting like a typical kid intimidated by cops with a couple of pistols on their side. Since both were shot in separate parts of the house I doubt it "accidently" went off and this kid is scared of guns. Give me a break
I agree what he said is ridiculous, but playing devil's advocate here, what do you want the lawyer to say? "Oh, yeah this kid is scum, he just murdered 2 people and should be in jail the rest of his life!" He's a lawyer... just doing his job. And he's almost certainly a public defender at that, who doesn't have 1 bit of say in which cases he is assigned to.
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how did this boy even have access to the guns? i understand his dad taught him how to use them, but did he not keep them locked? isn't this why you're supposed to keep guns locked up to keep them out of the hands of children? i've never owned a gun before, but this seems like common sense to me. the whole story may come out over time (or maybe not), but this whole thing just seems kind of strange.
also, for those that started going down the path of the media and videogames ruining society, are you serious? nothing in the article suggested anything about movies or videogames. in fact, i'd probably argue that the fact that the dad was an avid hunter, had guns in the house, and did not keep them locked up and away from his 8 year old were more contributing factors in these deaths than any movie or videogame.
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Legend
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I think it's obvious that this kid has some real mental problems. However, what if it comes out that his dad and this other guy were molesting him? That changes the story a whole heluva lot.
That being said, a couple of us lawyers were talking the other day about charging kids as adults. It seems that courts are deciding that a kid at 12 or 13 can be tried as adults in certain cases. That means the court feels they have the appropriate mindset to commit the crime.
What about guys who get sent away for having sex with a 14 or 15 year old? Now, don't get me wrong, I am not condoning it in the least. But if you're over 18 and you have sex with a girl that young, you are committing a crime, even if she shows you ID that says she's 18, or you pick her up in a 21 and over bar, you are committing statutory rape.
Well, if kids can be held to have an adult mindset with other crimes, what's to stop a court from saying that a 14 or 15 year old doesn't have the mindset to have sex?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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