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We're struggling right now. I really feel that we have the talent to be competitive, but we aren't utilizing the right players in the starting line up. I feel that if we need to make roster moves and line up changes, it should come this week. We play cincy week 4, and we have a bye week 5. Cincy is arguably one of the worst teams. What better time to play with the line up?
This is what I would do....what would you do?
- Sign CB Ty Law
- Sign WR Joe Horn
- Trade TE Dinkins for anything
- Cut CB Lawson
- Cut WR Sanders, place on PS
- Activate Joe Jerevicius from PUP.
- Do anything to make Stallworth heal faster.
And re-arrange the line up like this:
OFFENSE
WR 17 Braylon Edwards 84 Joe Jurevicius 12 Syndric Steptoe
LT 73 Joe Thomas
LG 65 Eric Steinbach 79 Scott Young
C 66 Hank Fraley 68 Seth McKinney
RG 70 Rex Hadnot 72 Ryan Tucker
RT 77 Kevin Shaffer 61 Isaac Sowells
TE 80 Kellen Winslow 82 Steve Heiden 86 Martin Rucker
WR 18 Donte Stallworth 87 Joe Horn 16 Joshua Cribbs
QB 10 Brady Quinn 3 Derek Anderson 11 Ken Dorsey
RB 31 Jamal Lewis 35 Jerome Harrison 29 Jason Wright
FB 47 Lawrence Vickers 41 Charles Ali
DEFENSE
DE 99 Corey Williams 93 Louis Leonard
NT 92 Shaun Rogers 91 Shaun Smith
DE 91 Shaun Smith 97 Santonio Thomas
LOLB 95 Kamerion Wimbley 51 Shantee Orr
ILB 52 D'Qwell Jackson 54 Andra Davis
ILB 55 Willie McGinest 58 Beau Bell 53 Kris Griffin
ROLB 96 Alex Hall 94 Leon Williams
LCB 24 Eric Wright ?? Ty Law 25 Terry Cousin
RCB 22 Brandon McDonald 23 Travis Daniels
SS 26 Sean Jones 27 Nick Sorensen
FS 21 Brodney Pool 20 Mike Adams
SPECIAL TEAMS
P 15 Dave Zastudil
K 4 Phil Dawson
H 15 Dave Zastudil
PR 16 Joshua Cribbs 12 Syndric Steptoe 22 Brandon McDonald
KOR 16 Joshua Cribbs 29 Jason Wright 35 Jerome Harrison
LS 64 Ryan Pontbriand 82 Steve Heiden
This is what I feel this does for us:
Offense:
Bench DA, Start Quinn.
Joe Horn & Joe Jurevicius as #3 & #4 WR. That gives us two legit possession receivers for 3rd down conversions. Missing Joe Jurevicius is killing us on 3rd down. Adding Joe Horn to the mix won't hurt.
Move Harrison officially in front of Wright as the #2 back. Harrison is listed as #3 on the official depth chart. Give Harrison 5-10 touches per game.
Defense:
Bench Dra' Davis. I'm sick of watching him get stuck on blockers, and arm "tackling" (only to bounce off) Running Backs.
Move Willie McGinest to ILB on the strong side. Willie has lost a step in the pass rush, but he can still shed blocks and he can still tackle. Have him take on the Guard and the full back, instead of Davis.
Start Hall at OLB on the strong side.
Start Jackson at ILB on the weak side.
Start Wimbley at OLB on the weak side.
Make Ty Law the nickle CB.
Give ILB Bell a few reps on 2nd and long situations (obvious running downs)
If media reports are correct, and we are a little over 6 mil under the cap, we should be able to squeeze in Horn and Law for cap friendly one or two year deals.
Thoughts?
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Legend
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Legend
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Do you think McGinest is going to be able to drop back in pass coverage?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Signing Ty Law would do nothing.
I don't think people know how bad he is now. There is a reason he isn't playing right now. Same with Joe Horn.
The players on our team right now are the players that are going to end on this team at the end of the year. We won't see any significant upgrades though FA.
you had a good run Hank.
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OP
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Quote:
Do you think McGinest is going to be able to drop back in pass coverage?
Can Andra Davis?
McGinest can't be any worse at pass coverage than Davis. McGinest is our best run-stuffing LB. Put him in position to make the biggest impact with his biggest strength.
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You can forget about Law. Lerner spent over $100 million this offseason, he already cut off the tap when it comes to high priced players. Law will not be signed.
If JJ is back by week 6 and Stalworth is not out there I'd much rather have Cribbs than Steptoe. But more importantly I'd rather have KW move to WR and have Heiden play TE than Cribbs or Steptoe.
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1st String
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OP
1st String
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Quote:
Signing Ty Law would do nothing.
I don't think people know how bad he is now. There is a reason he isn't playing right now. Same with Joe Horn.
The players on our team right now are the players that are going to end on this team at the end of the year. We won't see any significant upgrades though FA.
Your right, Ty Law isn't that great any more. But he's still an upgrade of Cousin or Daniels.
The same goes for Joe Horn. He's better than Steptoe.
I'm not suggesting to sign these guys to start...only to play in a situational role.
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Legend
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I would *like* to see Ryan Tucker, Eric Steinbach, Joe Jurevicius, Donte Stallworth, Robaire Smith, Daven Holly and Sean Jones. 
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Quote:
Why get rid of Dinkins?
It's a numbers game. Dinkins hasn't sniffed the field yet, and as soon as Rucker is off of the injury report, I can't image Dinkins being any closer to seeing the field.
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Quote:
Your right, Ty Law isn't that great any more. But he's still an upgrade of Cousin or Daniels.
The same goes for Joe Horn. He's better than Steptoe.
I don't think either are better than anything we have here right now.
Ty Law has lost more than a step. He's lost at least three. He would look almost identical to Terry Cousin's.
Joe Horn is taller than Steptoe...that's about it. I honestly cannot make a determination on Steptoe. Derek hardly ever throws to him.
you had a good run Hank.
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Quote:
Joe Horn is taller than Steptoe...that's about it. I honestly cannot make a determination on Steptoe. Derek hardly ever throws to him.
Steptoe looks lost. I'm not saying that he might not be decent someday...but he should be at the bottom of the depth chart right now. His routes, his hands, his recognition...all need work. He's got some potential, but he's at least a year away from being a decent contributor. I'd take a flier on Quincy Morgan before I started Steptoe any longer.
Horn and Law may only give us marginal physical talent upgrades...it's the mental upgrades that I feel would make the biggest difference.
But it's moving McGinest to MLB is what I really want to see.
We are stuck at the bottom of a hump going "I think I can....I think I can...I think I can..." A little extra umph may get us over it.
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Quote:
Do you think McGinest is going to be able to drop back in pass coverage?
Can Andra Davis?
I do view that as his strength ...if it can be stated that way.
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Joe can't be taked off the PUP until week 6.
I'm against spending money just to spend money, so I'd question the signings you have there. I'd bet that Phil & Co have done their research and neither are worth the money. Vet minimum for 1 year and I'd consider it, but that is about all.
So starting lineup. I think the only two things different that I'd do is start Quinn and Hall. The game plan is where I'd mix it up.
Focus on pass rush, pass rush, and more pass rush. Then I'd focus on pass rush after that. You get my point.
On offense, use our speed more. That means more Harrison, more Cribbs. Focus on protecting Quinn and making sure we take our fair share of attempts down field. More spread sets. Then use the pass to set up the pounding of Jamal.
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Have Romeo off the sidelines.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Sorry - you put a lot of thought into this post. JJ can't possibly come back at this point - learn and understand the PUP list rules.
Willie M "shed's blockers?" When and where? I haven't seen that, and no one else has. Willie's done. He's just cashing a check at this point.
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Quote:
JJ can't possibly come back at this point - learn and understand the PUP list rules.
You're right, he has to miss 6 weeks and then we have 3 weeks to add him to the 53 which means he's eligible anytime from weeks 7-9. So he was off by a week, sue him.
The point stands however. I think missing JJ has hurt this team way more than any other player we have lost so far. He was BY FAR the best blocking WR on the team. How many times did we send JJ in motion last year and have him block down on a LB for a running play. It helped make up for the fact that Winslow is a horrible blocking TE. Believe me, Jamal and our OLine miss Jurevicius. JJ runs great routes. Can't say the same for anyone else on our roster. JJ has the second best hands of any of our receivers behind Winslow. He's a big target with a head for getting the 1st down. He was OBVIOUSLY DA's security blanket on 3rd down last year...this year all we have is Winslow and teams know it. Not to mention, JJ is a winner and a leader in the huddle. We are SORELY missing that this season. For all the stats they put up, Edwards/Winslow/Lewis aren't leaders on this offense. I hope sometime soon Joe Thomas will be but he doesn't appear to be yet...and unfortunately DA hasn't taken the opportunity either.
I can not emphasize more how dearly we need JJ back and in a hurry. When I heard before this year that it was going to be his last, I got worried. We have NOBODY who can fill his shoes or bring what he brings to our offense (intangibles).
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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1st String
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1st String
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Posts: 131 |
Quote:
Sorry - you put a lot of thought into this post. JJ can't possibly come back at this point - learn and understand the PUP list rules.
Willie M "shed's blockers?" When and where? I haven't seen that, and no one else has. Willie's done. He's just cashing a check at this point.
My bad. I ment this to be the lineup for week 6 when we play the giants, after the bye...not "right now". I thought that you could come off the PUP week 6...not AFTER week 6.
Willie has shown an ability to be stout against the run. He is capable of, and does, disengage blockers in order to get to the running back. He is NOT capable of shedding blockers to get to the passer. He doesn't have the agility to do that any more. I feel that we are wasting a pass rush opportunity by leaving Willie in an OLB position. Inserting Hall in to a starting OLB position, and moving Willie inside will improve our run D and pass rush.
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Quote:
We're struggling right now. I really feel that we have the talent to be competitive, but we aren't utilizing the right players in the starting line up. I feel that if we need to make roster moves and line up changes, it should come this week. We play cincy week 4, and we have a bye week 5. Cincy is arguably one of the worst teams. What better time to play with the line up?
This is what I would do....what would you do?
- Sign CB Ty Law
- Sign WR Joe Horn
- Trade TE Dinkins for anything
- Cut CB Lawson
- Cut WR Sanders, place on PS
- Activate Joe Jerevicius from PUP.
- Do anything to make Stallworth heal faster.
And re-arrange the line up like this:
OFFENSE
WR 17 Braylon Edwards 84 Joe Jurevicius 12 Syndric Steptoe
LT 73 Joe Thomas
LG 65 Eric Steinbach 79 Scott Young
C 66 Hank Fraley 68 Seth McKinney
RG 70 Rex Hadnot 72 Ryan Tucker
RT 77 Kevin Shaffer 61 Isaac Sowells
TE 80 Kellen Winslow 82 Steve Heiden 86 Martin Rucker
WR 18 Donte Stallworth 87 Joe Horn 16 Joshua Cribbs
QB 10 Brady Quinn 3 Derek Anderson 11 Ken Dorsey
RB 31 Jamal Lewis 35 Jerome Harrison 29 Jason Wright
FB 47 Lawrence Vickers 41 Charles Ali
DEFENSE
DE 99 Corey Williams 93 Louis Leonard
NT 92 Shaun Rogers 91 Shaun Smith
DE 91 Shaun Smith 97 Santonio Thomas
LOLB 95 Kamerion Wimbley 51 Shantee Orr
ILB 52 D'Qwell Jackson 54 Andra Davis
ILB 55 Willie McGinest 58 Beau Bell 53 Kris Griffin
ROLB 96 Alex Hall 94 Leon Williams
LCB 24 Eric Wright ?? Ty Law 25 Terry Cousin
RCB 22 Brandon McDonald 23 Travis Daniels
SS 26 Sean Jones 27 Nick Sorensen
FS 21 Brodney Pool 20 Mike Adams
SPECIAL TEAMS
P 15 Dave Zastudil
K 4 Phil Dawson
H 15 Dave Zastudil
PR 16 Joshua Cribbs 12 Syndric Steptoe 22 Brandon McDonald
KOR 16 Joshua Cribbs 29 Jason Wright 35 Jerome Harrison
LS 64 Ryan Pontbriand 82 Steve Heiden
This is what I feel this does for us:
Offense:
Bench DA, Start Quinn.
Joe Horn & Joe Jurevicius as #3 & #4 WR. That gives us two legit possession receivers for 3rd down conversions. Missing Joe Jurevicius is killing us on 3rd down. Adding Joe Horn to the mix won't hurt.
Move Harrison officially in front of Wright as the #2 back. Harrison is listed as #3 on the official depth chart. Give Harrison 5-10 touches per game.
Defense:
Bench Dra' Davis. I'm sick of watching him get stuck on blockers, and arm "tackling" (only to bounce off) Running Backs.
Move Willie McGinest to ILB on the strong side. Willie has lost a step in the pass rush, but he can still shed blocks and he can still tackle. Have him take on the Guard and the full back, instead of Davis.
Start Hall at OLB on the strong side.
Start Jackson at ILB on the weak side.
Start Wimbley at OLB on the weak side.
Make Ty Law the nickle CB.
Give ILB Bell a few reps on 2nd and long situations (obvious running downs)
If media reports are correct, and we are a little over 6 mil under the cap, we should be able to squeeze in Horn and Law for cap friendly one or two year deals.
Thoughts?
This isn't Madden buddy. At this point of the season you can't just sign a few people and just drop back ups in and expect instantaneous results.
Law and Horn not in football shape ...Neither were in a training camp.
Alex Hall looks like a 7th round pick 99% of his time on the field
Why move Willie?
Jackson looks the only LB this team has as a matter of fact...
Bell? He needs to get healthy and practice first. Just because he was the browns first pick this year doesn't mean he is anywhere near ready to contribute. Remember he was what.... a 4th rounder? From UNLV...
Why move Wimbley? he needs to work on technique not mastering the duck under from the other side
Money and agressive moves aren't going to fix anything. It is what it is this year and its obvious the ol needs to get healthy and LB and CB are going to be a big focus in the offseason. It's now just a matter of this team NEEDS to score points and run the ball to stay in games. The already weak defense is on the field too much and they are picking apart the CBs because cleveland has arguably the worst linebacking group of any 34 defense in the league.
The only change to the lineup I would like to see is DA having a short leash if he can't get it going and play pool by the los. at this point why not live and die by the safety playing agressive at the line...He seems like the only person who can take advantage of the havoc Rogers and Williams are creating.
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Quote:
This isn't Madden buddy.
Really?? Because I did this on my Xbox and....
No crap this isn't madden. I'm just shooting thoughts from one browns fan to a group of browns fans. Expressing your opinion and ideas are fun...I think that is why we are all on this board.
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At this point of the season you can't just sign a few people and just drop back ups in and expect instantaneous results.
Well, 0-3 thinks otherwise. Hey, cutting a few backups and signing others to replace them can't really hurt.
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Law and Horn not in football shape ...Neither were in a training camp.
Neither can be any worse than Gerrad Lawson or Steptoe / Sanders
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Alex Hall looks like a 7th round pick 99% of his time on the field
He looks like a rookie yes...but not a 7th rounder. Hall is an athletic freak or nature. He's struggling against run support yes, but he's doing a great job rushing the passer.
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Why move Willie?
Willie can no longer rush the passer. He's still good against the run. Andra Davis is only good at...uh...hmm....I don't know. But I guess that's my point. 
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Jackson looks the only LB this team has as a matter of fact...
Bell? He needs to get healthy and practice first. Just because he was the browns first pick this year doesn't mean he is anywhere near ready to contribute. Remember he was what.... a 4th rounder? From UNLV...
Jackson needs to stop over pursuing, and stay in his gap responsibility.
Agreed. I'd like to see more of Bell...but he hasn't shown anything yet to warrant more playing time....mostly because he's been injured.
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Why move Wimbley? he needs to work on technique not mastering the duck under from the other side
Having Wimbley attack from many different angles during game time will only help him out.
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Money and agressive moves aren't going to fix anything. It is what it is this year and its obvious the ol needs to get healthy and LB and CB are going to be a big focus in the offseason. It's now just a matter of this team NEEDS to score points and run the ball to stay in games. The already weak defense is on the field too much and they are picking apart the CBs because cleveland has arguably the worst linebacking group of any 34 defense in the league.
The only change to the lineup I would like to see is DA having a short leash if he can't get it going and play pool by the los. at this point why not live and die by the safety playing agressive at the line...He seems like the only person who can take advantage of the havoc Rogers and Williams are creating.
I'm not willing to write off this season. We've only played 3 games. Yes the boat has leaks, but they've just been sprung. We can fix the ship....you just have to have the nads to do so.
DA has shown me nothing over the last 7 or so games he's started. He locks on to one reciever and waits to get it to them. Defenses have keyed on it, and his TD-INT ratio has clearly shown this. I think DA can be a very good QB in this league, and could take a team deep into the playoffs...but it won't be Cleveland. Is Brady Quinn better? I don't know. But I know what we've got in DA, and I'm ready for a change.
You can play a safety aggressively at the line...if the defense doesn't give the blitz package away a good 10 seconds before the offense gets the play off. I haven't seen anything from either of our safeties to warrant giving them the reckless ambition that Pittsburgh gives Troy Polamalu. Especially when our front seven can't mount a pass rush. Pulling in our secondary to rush on a constant basis is pure suicide based on the current play of our linebackers.
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The best thing is to wait till you get your guys back healthy and go from there.. I mean really... how many starters are out till about week 6 ?
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i would rather see us sign a couple of 20-something nobodies then sign ty law or joe horn...
because at least with that, you have the chance at finding a diamond in the rough, someone who maybe fits our system perfectly.
you know where the road goes with signing guys like horn and law.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
i would rather see us sign a couple of 20-something nobodies then sign ty law or joe horn...
because at least with that, you have the chance at finding a diamond in the rough, someone who maybe fits our system perfectly.
you know where the road goes with signing guys like horn and law.
well, problem is, the Browns have been doing this very thing for some time and it's really gotten them nowhere. They've been signing nobody CB's and young WR's last season and this season, actually we traded for Danilson but we signed Steptoe and Sanders, not really been much help. We've been doing the same with LB's, Alex Hall (has potentioal, I do like him), Beau Bell, (we don't know what he's got to offer), and even the right side of the OL has been pieced together, not a terrible job doing that but certainly isn't as solid as the left side either.
I understand wanting to find the young talent and I'm sure Savage will continue to look for that, via draft, udfa's, FA's and where ever else he can find it but Horn and Law offer valuable experience. Law can offer experience to a very young set of CB's, Wright and B Mac, who, btw, have not been doing all that bad. Horn would be better than Stallworth IMO, he's got speed, good hands, at least as much experience as Donte, and he seems to stay healthier than Stallworth.
I'm just play Devil's advocate, personally, I really don't care if we signed either of these guys or not. I actually believe the Browns 08 season is over anyways.
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