DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Bengals' 1st round pick, Keith Rivers, still holding out . . .

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcnorth/0-0-109/Rivers-missing-valuable-time-in-Cincinnati.html

Rivers missing valuable time in Cincinnati

July 31, 2008 3:00 PM

Posted by ESPN.com's James Walker

Rookie linebacker Keith Rivers was a virtual lock to win a starting job at outside linebacker entering training camp. But four days and six missed practices later, Rivers is slowly hurting his chances.

Rivers remains the team's only unsigned draft pick. It's unknown what specifically is holding up contract talks, but the length of the holdout gives the impression that it is significant.

Earlier this week, head coach Marvin Lewis said it was a "shame" Rivers has yet to join the team.

Rivers was impressive in minicamp. The ninth overall pick was considered by many scouts as one of the most ready players in this year's draft, and he will need to continue to live up to that billing once he arrives.

The Bengals are installing a new 4-3 defense under assistant coach Mike Zimmer and wrinkles are being added daily. Plus, Rivers is missing opportunities to build camaraderie with his teammates.

"A lot of this stuff we've already gone over, so he's heard it once through the minicamp,'' Zimmer said. "But now is when it's starting to get critical for him, because it's all starting to come together. Even if he came out tomorrow, he's got to learn (four) days of install in one day. So he's way behind the eight ball now. It's going to be tough."

Currently, third-year veteran Brandon Johnson is getting most of the reps in Rivers' outside linebacker spot. But Johnson is not the long-term solution, so he's simply keeping the seat warm.

Still, the sooner the Bengals and Rivers can agree on a contract the better.

#8 pick Derrick Harvey of the Jags has yet to sign as well.....which is why River's hasn't signed.

Slotting. Happens every year and this is just the tail end of it.........

Right, I know that. I think it's dumb, but who doesn't really? It would make more sense to me if Harvey was already a linbeacker.

Man, talk about a defense that most likely needs an instant impact rookie linebacker in camp.

I hope Rivers pulls a Jamarcus Russell and stays out for the whole training camp.

This is a yearly routine for the Bengals. They are one cheap organization. Add that to the greed of a top 10 draft pick and you have a perfect storm.

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Still, the sooner the Bengals and Rivers can agree on a contract the better.

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No it's not.

Just in case, upon rereading my last post, I have no idea why I said Harvey is already a linebacker. How can you think the word ALSO and type the word ALREADY???

Us not having a pick - in the top 3 rounds...I have no clue who has signed or not. Usually on this board we would have a 1st round Signing watch - who has and who hasn't. But for obvious reasons we don't have such a thread. Has Ryan the QB signed?

As for the Bengals - this is typical for them. Usually they have a rep for being cheap and their #1 picks hold out a while. Good for us cause this River kid is good - real good - too good for the Bengals!

JMHO

QB Ryan was one of the first to sign if I remember correctly.

I thought the Bengals already had a 4-3 defense--why would they install one if they already have it? Or did he mean to say 3-4 defense?

Thanks - then I see its business as usual for the Bengals

Source: Bengals 'far apart' on contract with draft pick Rivers
By James Walker

Updated: August 3, 2008, 5:18 PM ET

The Cincinnati Bengals and first-round pick Keith Rivers are still "far apart" in contract negotiations, a source told ESPN.com Sunday. Rivers, the No. 9 overall pick in April's NFL draft, has missed the entire first week of training camp with Cincinnati.

The two sides remain in constant negotiations. The source added that talks could improve dramatically at any time, but as of Sunday afternoon the team was not close to striking a deal with Rivers.

Jacksonville Jaguars rookie linebacker Derrick Harvey, the No. 8 pick, and Rivers remain the only unsigned first-rounders. Jacksonville's inability to sign its top pick one spot ahead of Cincinnati also is slowing negotiations with Rivers, the source said.

Rivers is the favorite to win a starting job at outside linebacker for Cincinnati and is considered one of the most NFL-ready players in the draft. Depending on how long the holdout continues, he will have to make up a lot of ground once he arrives.

"A lot of this stuff we've already gone over, so he's heard it once through the minicamp," Bengals defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer told ESPN.com last week. "But now is when it's starting to get critical for him, because it's all starting to come together. Even if he came out tomorrow, he's got to learn [multiple] days of install in one day. So he's way behind the eight ball now. It's going to be tough."

Third-year linebacker Brandon Johnson currently is getting reps with the first team at outside linebacker, but he is not considered the long-term solution. Cincinnati finished last season ranked No. 27 in overall defense last season, prompting the Bengals to select Rivers as their future cornerstone on defense.

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Lovin it, take as much time as you need Keith.

Eotab I can't totally agree with you on your assessment on the Bengals state of affairs.
I feel there have been 2 different eras of Bengals football in recent memory.
That would be pre-Marvin Lewis and the Marvin Lewis era.
Going back to even when Paul Brown owned the team until his death,the Bengals were ran on a shoestring budget. And even when Mike Brown took over,he ran the Bengals the way his father did. From Sam Wyche to David Shula and Dick LeBeau the Bengals were "penny pinchers".
But when Marvin Lewis took over,he has convinced Mike Brown you have to open the checkbook a little more.
The Bengals have not been "cheap" when it comes to the last few years.
Carson Palmer, Willie Anderson,Rudi Johnson, Jeremi Johnson make top dollar or close to at their position.
Domata Peko and Andrew Whitworth just resigned to good sized extentions.
Antwan Odom and Ben Utecht aren't making chump change.
As far as the Bengals 1st RD draft picks goes you make it sound like holding and not signing on time is the norm.....not such under Marvin Lewis.
the last 1st RD pick to hold was David Pollack which was 4 years ago.

Well they say he showed up to training camp today..Not on the field but a deal is imminent. Goodie goodie!

That's great news. That means by this time tomorrow, he'll be arrested.

I hate to break it to you but 2 out of 4 draft picks holding out is awful. Pollack was the last draft pick un-signed in his class (in 2005) and Rivers is one of the final 2.

The Bengals have given out good money to several players. I agree with that. But do those players deserve it? Peko is average at best, same with Odom. Whitworth hasn't shown anything to make me believe he deserves that. And yet you guys let Steiny go. You've seen how much that has hurt you guys and helped us. And to think you could have gotten him for 5 million a year.

Hold on Carson.....Wont be long now and you'll have a trojan buddy...And together you can both hate The Ohio State University Buckeyes



I did hear he was told to hold out the first two weeks of Bengals camp, the first two weeks involve strip searchs, beer bottle tossing,( Chris Henry was suppose to be the returning champion) fire arm assult, hand to jaw combat for when your at amusement parks. On-Line Radio whinning, Camps end up with the WR's putting on a cross dressed version of the show Moma Meia, Chad playing the lead, they had to let him, he said he would hold his breath until he turned blue unless he got the lead.

www.KFFL.com

Bengals | Contract update: Rivers
Wed, 6 Aug 2008 02:02:59 -0700

John Clayton, of ESPN.com, reports Cincinnati Bengals LB Keith Rivers signed a six-year deal with the team that voids to five year, but terms were not immediately available. Rivers could max out with a contract in excess of $20 million if he hits all of his performance and playing-time clauses.

Everyone here thinks Eric Steinbach signing with the Browns was the main reason why the Bengals running game suffered in 2007.
It was a move that has panned out nicely for the Browns. But the Bengals at that time already had given out big money to Levi and Willie. You can't give trainloads to money to all your o-lineman.
Did the Browns overpay for Steiny,maybe,maybe not.
The Bengals running game in 2007 wasn't affected by Eric out and Andrew Whitworth in.
Rudi Johnson wasn't healthy all year with his hammy. Chris Perry didn't see the field. Plus the Bengals had to play from behind quite abit in 2007 in which you abandon the running game.
The funny thing is,if you combine Kenny Watson's and Rudi Johnson's stats,you have a 1,000 yard rusher.
And for those of you who think Steinbach is 100x the OG Whitworth,then it shows you haven't saw enough of him play.

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The funny thing is,if you combine Kenny Watson's and Rudi Johnson's stats,you have a 1,000 yard rusher.

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Not bashing or doubting, but I remember making those same justifications with Lee Suggs & William Green.... and William Green & PP.... and well, every combination of backs before Droughns broke the drought... for a year anyway.

"If we just add them together... we'd get a 1,000 yarder!!" ... bad, bad memories.

Not to mention that 1,000 yards isn't really the measuring stick with 16 games now. That's roughly 73 ypg....hardly mind boggling.

I'm with you, but then again I didn't realize I was making excuses until retrospective view.

I think you guys are going to be the surprise team in the division this year if Palmer can bounce back from an off year.

I think they could surprise the division, but I think it's all about Palmer bringing his leadership skills up to the same level as his talent. That, and Marv Lewis has to continue and reinforce his stronger stances.

I suppose the D Line could use a little work too.....

Surprised at how much they suck?

LOL...Hopefully. It just worries me because after the whole Chad fiasco they're staying below the radar and trying to handle things accordingly.

Before I considered them to be a bunch of dudes playing football with the same jerseys on...never really a team. If they can get a good leader, I think they could go somewhere with that offense.

I definitely don't think they've done enough with their D, however.

Just looking at it objectively, you have arguably the 3rd best QB in the league running the show. Two outstanding wideouts. Decent RB production. I'm not too sure about the state of their OL, and we all know that could make a huge swing in either direction. If they can get decent production from their OL, they will put up points. That offense still scares me.

On the D side of the ball, that team was decimated by injuries and a young secondary last year. If they can stay reasonably healthy, get production out of Rivers, and if their secondary is truly up and coming (if you just look at their draft status, they've got some talent), then I think we could be talking about '07 as a down year for them.

As much as I can't stand him, I just don't think you can count Palmer out. Too talented. He does appear to be a pretty big deuche bag (that guy has put his foot in his mouth so many times), but maybe the talent will win out. He does not appear to be much of a leader to me, but again, that talent is just too good.

Well I do think one reason that their linebacking corp got banged up was because they were constantly getting pounded. Their DL was almost as poor as ours...and hasn't improved.

I dunno. I don't think Geathers is all that great and I don't consider Odom to be any better than Smith.

LOL, I missed that comment!

If you don't want to trust my opinion, go by the "experts". Many of them have Steiny as being a top 5 or even the best guard in the NFL. Where's Whitworth on that? And there is no way we overpaid for Steinbach. I never once saw him get beat last year. I saw him dominating and then going downfield to get some more. Steinbach is worth just as much money as Fanaca in my mind and he is making less money.

As far as giving trainloads of money to the O-Line: Why not? The Browns did and its worked pretty darn well for us if I might add. Willie is making just over 6 million a year; Levi is making just under 7 mill a year. The Browns already had Bentley making 6 million a year and Shaffer making 5 million a year when we gave Steiny 7 mill a year, offered Deilman(sp?) 7 mill a year, and then gave JT 7 mill a year.

Not to mention Hadnot is making 3.5 mill per year, Fraley 2.5, (a bargain) and Tucker is making over 3 mill a year.

Yet you say you can't give your O-Line "trainloads" of money. The money in your O-Line doesn't even compare to the money in ours.

Just clicking...
Since this has become a Bengal thread instead of the sign watch of Rivers (who finally signed).

The Bengals are who they are.
Still a dangerous high scoring offense.
A suspect Defense always trying to get better. Rivers btw is very, very good - but might be a little late in learning. End of the season he should be a terror, if that will mean anything for the Bengals will be seen.

But what they are not - is a team with CHARACTER! This is not smack but a true observation. Just what does that mean. And it really doesn't have all to do with the Arrests stuff. Its the Character as team mates and Football Players. You have to have that heart Collectively fighting all quarters and especially when the chips are down!! It is that character that is lacking from the Bengals.

They could very well be dangerous if they get off the good foot and Win...Wins several games 4-1, 5-2 start...the more wins the more dangerous they will be.

But in the opposite effect...if losses start to mount Early, their lack of Character will pop up and they will IMPLODE!

JMHO