DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Not everyone in the press likes our moves

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Teams are built throught the draft. They have to be, because of the salary cap.

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Let me ask u something...And pertain it to a 3-4 Defense and an Offense...

What are the 5 most important positions on a team???

As a matter of fact I WILL ANSWER FOR YOU...

1) QB---BOTH Non FA---Draft and PS Pick-Up
2) #1 WR---Drafted
3) LT---Drafted
4) DE or NT in a 3-4-----FA (Big Bucks like a 1st Round Pick)
5) CB--Drafted

Go look at some teams...(Namely NE)...And figure out how many FA guys are on that team...

2 things...There's a MIX all over the league and the CAP has increased significantly to accommodate this...3 years ago we couldn't even dream of doing this...We also don't have 2nd contracts from high profile draft picks from 99-03 who SHOULD BE key parts of this team...Couch/Brown/Warren/Green/Faine...

We're FINE just the way we are...

These guys see these $$$$ figures and go thru the roof cause they have no damn clue what they're talking about concerning the REAL DRIVING FORCE in the NFL...

The Salary Cap...

This pisse s me off about as much as people saying NO to anybody who's 30+ years of age...Every single FA or Tradeable player doesn't need to be a huge $$$ figure signing...But they can HELP...

Look at your BEST 3-4 teams lately....

New England

Vrabel--33
Seau--38
Thomas--31
Bruschi--35

Baltimore

Lewis--33
Thomas--30 when he was there

Pitt

Farrior--33
Harrison--30
Haggans--31

I'm ranting...Done...

We were in such a deep and dismal hole with relatively no talent at all on the team when Savage took over that he did what he had to do just to get us to a point where we are able to win during the season and where the draft will actually help us in the long run instead of being some type of perceived magic wand every year. He couldn't have done that without being incredibly aggressive in FA the past three years. I am 100% certain we will see an entirely different approach from 2009 on. Frankly, it took guts, skill and a great cap guru to pull this off without killing our future.

WOW... this just aint worth a response....
WHO IS THIS GUY????

We don't know how all these moves will turn out. It's nothing if the fans and media jump all over it with praises. Heck every off-season moves gets an A from fans.

I don't have any problems trading picks for PROVEN players....ex: Corey Williams. The Shaun Rodgers move was pretty much what you see in the 3rd round, a 50/50 shot of sucess. I'm not sold on Rodgers, he's proven he's a lazy out of shape guy. Hopefully RAC changes him and I think Rodgers will be a so-so pickup but it's still worth the third.

The Stallworth move was the only smudge. Stallworth was let go by an Eagles team desperate for a big time WR. Then a Pats team that makes almost no personel mistakes let him go rather then give him a $6 million bonus. We go out a give the guy #1 or #2 WR money when in reality he'll still be a #3. I think we shoulda added a few more bucks and got a real #2 in Berrian.


Finally the DA situation should help the Browns out either way. This years draft sucks, unless we could get Dorsey its better to have 2 healthy QB's and have one to trade next off-season..which is almost a gurantee.

IMHO a B+ off-season, Phil was aggresive and it toke some guts.

Agreed, but I'm speaking philosophically. I'm talking in general about how Savage has gone out on a limb to bring us up to speed. We didn't know how Peek, Steinbach & Fraley would work out either. One could say that signing Baxter and LCB were short-sighted and disastrous moves. The point is, Savage is doing what is necessary to get us to a point where we are at least able to compete. Will we make the playoffs this year? I have no idea. Given our schedule I'd say it's 50/50 whether we go 9-7 or better. Will Williams, Rogers & Donte all prove beneficial? I really don't know, though I am inclined to say they will. I'm inclined to believe that our D-line will be MUCH better and that Donte will help the receiving corps quite a bit. I wouldn't be able to say the same thing about a second and third rounder in this draft. I do believe in building through the draft, but I also believe that paying a kid right out of college a ton of money without ever seeing the NFL field, spending 3-5 years developing him, then seeing him walk away for a fat contract when he becomes a free agent doesn't help your team at all. All in all, from what I've witnessed the past three years, we are right on schedule according to the plan initially laid out, whether you agree with the methods and all the signings during that period or not. Bottom line; as a fan, I like these signings and hope they help us to have a competitive season, and maybe make the playoffs. JMHO

Agree with most of what is said here...so I'll just add a couple points.

1. You can never have enough OL depth...but how many teams have more OL depth than we have right now? We have to be in the top 10 OL's on our 2-deep, right?

2. 2 of the positions that the writer claims we need more depth at (CB, RB) happen to be extremely deep in this draft.

Example of guys that could still be there for our 4th and 6th round picks

4th Tashard Choice (battering ram runner who compares to Marion Barber style runner)

6th pick a CB that you think can mirror what McDonald did last year...here are some choices that could be available:

Tyvonn Branch UConn
Jonathon Zenon LSU
Jack Williams Kent State
Dwight Lowery San Diego State

My whole take on what Phil has been doing is this:

You go into Free Agency to fill holes. You groom the draft picks you have to learn and fill in for those who are going to move on.

Now we have a lot of our holes filled and we can concentrate on the draft in the future to REPLACE or UPGRADE positions instead of drafting for a need.

That's JMHO.

" you can't trade away your whole first day when you have so many needs"

BS, Phil addressed those needs with these trades and FA 's and any media hack that can't see that he addressed those needs is just, well, a media hack...............

j/c... More lovefest, but thought I'd tag this here:

Ask Vic: Who are free-agency winners?
By Vic Carucci | NFL.com

We've got mail:

Question: So who do you see as the early winners and losers of free agency? I'm an Eagles fan, so you know I'm liking what they've done. But I would be happier if they landed a big-time receiver. -- Bill, Medford Lakes, N.J.

I also like what the Eagles have done, and would definitely put them high on the list of early free-agent "winners." They've made their defense significantly better with the additions of cornerback Asante Samuel, from New England, and pass-rushing defensive end Chris Clemons, from Oakland. Samuel is an exceptionally talented player who should do plenty to help the Eagles' coverage and playmaking. Clemons has the talent to be a high-impact player, and there is no doubt that defensive coordinator Jim Johnson will use him creatively in a scheme that attacks from a wide variety of areas.

The Cleveland Browns are another team on the "winners" list. Their best move was tying up Derek Anderson to a three-year deal, because it allows them to hang onto the most productive quarterback they have had in many years. It also puts them in a position to decide, on their own terms, what they might want to do (if anything) with Anderson or Brady Quinn after the '08 season. If Anderson has another standout year, the Browns could trade Quinn and, at the very minimum, recoup their first-round investment. The signing of Donte' Stallworth should make their passing game even more effective than it already is. And the trades for Corey Williams and Shaun Rogers should make them stronger in the middle, which was a crying offseason need.

The Minnesota Vikings did well by adding former Bear Bernard Berrian, a big-play receiver who should help them get far better production from Tarvaris Jackson. Former Cincinnati free agent Madieu Williams should do plenty to improve the Vikings' poor pass coverage.

I don't know if any team qualifies as a free-agent "loser." Certainly, the Patriots have taken some hits with the losses of Samuel and fellow cornerback Randall Gay. But none of the Patriots' offseason developments compares with re-signing Randy Moss, the second-most important player in their 18-1 season. Do I need to say who the most important was? I didn't think so.

Question: I'm a Packers and Brett Favre fan all the way from Europe. With the news of "Captain B" retiring, I can't help wonder if Aaron Rodgers is the quarterback future for the Pack? He looked good against the Cowboys last year, but do you think he has what it takes? -- Christian M., Denmark.

I can't say whether Rodgers has what it takes to be the Packers' long-term answer. I, too, was impressed with what he did in relief of Favre against Dallas. He showed excellent mobility, something that served him well against a Cowboy pass rush that Favre was unable to handle. He showed good poise and decisiveness. His quick throws and superb field vision allowed him to have success finding receivers who were consistently open underneath the Cowboys' zone.

Still, I need to see what Rodgers can do over the course of a full season as a starter before I can conclude his worthiness to fill some of the largest quarterbacking shoes in the history of the league. Frankly, Rodgers faces an incredibly difficult situation. The expectations create enormous pressure, especially with Favre having just completed one of the best seasons of a sterling career.

This is still Favre's team. This will be Favre's team for many years to come. Finding a successor for him might be just as impossible for the Packers as it has so far been for the Dolphins (since Dan Marino), Bills (since Jim Kelly), Broncos (since John Elway), and 49ers (since Steve Young).

Vic Carucci's mock draft: Top 5
No. Team Player Pos. College
1 Dolphins Chris Long DE Virginia
Carucci's take: It wouldn't be a shock to see the Dolphins go with a quarterback.
2 Rams Jake Long OT Michigan
Carucci's take: Long could very well be this year's Joe Thomas, who made the Pro Bowl as a rookie.
3 Falcons Matt Ryan QB Boston College
Carucci's take: This allows the organization to hit the reset button on what has been a disaster at the position.
4 Raiders Glenn Dorsey DT LSU
Carucci's take: The Raiders will need to be satisfied that there are no lingering problems with Dorsey's tibia stress fracture.
5 Chiefs Aqib Talib CB Kansas
Carucci's take: Chiefs might have interest in Ryan but there's a glaring need at cornerback and Talib can have an immediate impact.

Question: With your mock draft, am I missing something or are you suggesting USC defensive tackle Sedrick Ellis is not a first-round draft pick? Also, do you think the Bengals would pass him over if he was available, especially since signing Antwan Odom at defensive end and not needing to draft a defensive end at No. 9? I'm just curious, so please help me understand if you can. -- R. Williams.

I am not at all suggesting that Ellis lacks first-round ability. It just worked out that in my first mock draft (which, like all mocks, will be continually revised in the days and weeks leading up to the draft), the only team I had selecting a defensive tackle was Oakland. And, based on my current assessment of the college crop, Glenn Dorsey is the best player at the position.

I could easily see Ellis as the next defensive tackle off the board, and I would not be at all surprised if that happened in the first round. It makes sense that the Bengals would no longer use their first-round choice on a defensive end (I have them taking Ohio State's Vernon Gholston) now that they have signed Odom, the free agent from Tennessee. And Ellis might very well be the player they would target to address another big need.

Stay tuned.

Question: How do you feel about San Francisco's signing of Isaac Bruce? This team needs youth to grow with Alex Smith. Is Bruce simply a quick fix? He can't possibly be a long-term, go-to receiver. General Manager Scot McCloughan said the draft was where they would address receiver, but with players like Javon Walker, Donte' Stallworth, and even Randy Moss available, was this another waste of valuable free agent cash that could have gone towards another high end defensive player? -- Mike, Calgary.

I'm okay with the 49ers' signing of Bruce. Of course, he isn't a long-term, go-to receiver.

But I think he has enough left in his tank to make a viable contribution. His considerable experience will be helpful to Smith's development, as will his thorough knowledge of the scheme of new Niners offensive coordinator Mike Martz, who coached Bruce in St. Louis.

Of the three other veteran receivers you mentioned, only Moss would have been worth pursuing. However, I think the 49ers had the same thought that 30 other teams had regarding Moss -- that it would have taken an extraordinary amount of money to get him out of New England, many times more than the Patriots were offering him to stay (and that was a pretty hefty deal).

NFL.com

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Hell, even Vers seems happy.........and that scares the hell out me.......

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You are damn right, I'm happy. Last year I thought the Browns would win 5 or 6 games during the season. Vegas thought the same. The over/under was 5.5. We won 10 freaking games! And we have improved the team this offseason.


I agree that you build through the draft, but we won 10 games and Savage thinks we can win now. I am not saying the Super Bowl, but we should be a legit playoff contender. I would have never thought that after last year's debacle. Savage has improved the team and the team has bought into what RAC is selling.


And the author is a piece of work.

Running back of the future? LMAO.........RBs are the easiest position to fill, other than perhaps WR. Very good RBs move from team to team every year and there are always a plethora of good ones in the draft.

Offensive line depth? Again......LMAO. That was more important than upgrading our defensive line? Give me a break.

Depth in the secondary? A legit concern as is the OLB thing. But, how much can Savage do in a year? Come on, man.........was he going to upgrade the DL, the OLB, the RBs, the QB situation, and the entire secondary in the first three rounds of this year's draft?

It's nonsense! This team might not be where it should be yet. But Phil has upgraded the DL and the OL in back to back years. We look set at QB, which I would have never believed a couple of years ago. We are headed in the right direction.

I still think we are a year away from being a legit Super Bowl contender, but damn man........we are a playoff contender and that is a long ways away from 4 and 12.

Have faith, Brown's fans. This team is on the upswing. And you know I ain't no front-running homer who sees things through orange-colored glasses. We are now a legit team that is exciting as hell and it is fun watching these kids grow.

And make no mistake...........we aren't losers anymore!

j/c...

New video on building the Browns on the Home Page of NFL.com

Click Here

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As for the most important positions, I'd disagree with you.

1. LT
2. NT
3. LG
4. DE
5. OLB or maybe QB

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The guy wants us to have depth at positions like o-line and the secondary, but then hates on us b/c we have GREAT depth at one of the most important positions on the field, the QB spot.

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The New England Patriots have made their historic run by having a franchise quarterback, a great nucleus of young players built from solid first-day drafting, and adding low-to-mid level free agents.

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LMAO!!!! He makes it sound like NE just picked up a couple no-name FA's to surround the plethora of homegrown heroes. Yeah, Moss, Seau, Welker, Vrabel, Cory Dillon, etc. were low to mid level players.

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Where’s the depth in the secondary? The RB of the future? The young outside linebackers? The O-line depth?

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GMAFB. Had we addressed the depth in the secondary, the RB of the future, O-line depth.....he'd be asking why we didn't meet the glaring needs of a horrible DL and depth at WR. What a jerkoff.

Who is this guy?

Its easy to criticize Phil for dumping our draft picks this year. But I think the reality is, that we are much better off to make a great run this year and the next, after making the moves. A few things that make Phils moves good:

1) We don't have to worry about the guy we want not being there. We don't have to worry about a NT or DE end that we want disappearing on draft day before our number comes up. We have the guys we need.

2) Most rookies make rookie mistakes.

3) The 2nd and 3rd round picks... I would say likely wouldn't be near full playing ability at the beginning of the season. Even the first rounder might not be. We don't have to worry about Romeo not playing the rookies and waiting weeks and weeks to put them into the starting lineup.

4) No potential draft class holdouts. No Travis Wilson, no Braylon Edwards, no Brady Quinn hold outs this year.

5) While we DID lose our 1st rounder this year, we have a great backup QB. We have depth at QB and in a way, we DID have our first round pick this year... his name is just Brady Quinn and now he has a year on the bench which is even better so he knows the playbook and has had time to work with the team. Its not like we traded our first rounder to bring in a free agent like our 2nd and 3rd round picks.

6) I just think Phil made the right move here. Personally, I'm thrilled. He still gets 4 draft picks this year. They are 2nd day, but believe me, I have a feeling the team will make the best out of those 4th,5th,6th,7th round picks, considering thats all we have.

7) Maybe Phil will still get us a 2nd or 3rd round pick this year by putting a trade package together. He likes to trade afterall!

We already had our 08 draft for the first 3 rounds
1- Quinn(who could have gone top 5 to many teams)
2- Williams who has proven he can play in the NFL already
3- Rogers who has potential to take over a game and has already done it in the NFL...

compare that with 3 possible picks from this year...and i say we had a solid first day...

they dont like our moves because we dont have a guy who wears number 7 and likes balls in his face, Dante or Braylon, they dont have enough hours in one week to game plan for this offense...We are pretty much a big deal. Those who disagree can join Skip Bayless.