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I was thinking about this on the walk home from class today. This isn't about trading DA or anything like that, but if it belongs in that thread then please merge it refs.
Various sources have talked about the respect DA has from his teammates. I know several posters with inside info have said so.
Then on the flip-side, there's Brady Quinn. Clearly the people's choice. He received a loud reception in his debut and an even louder reception as he left the field. Browns fans were thirsty for more after that and it will only snowball over the offseason. As Andre Knott said on the radio after the SF game "The players were clearly affected by the reception Quinn got and the rather cold reception Anderson received as he went back in the game...the players believe DA is a big reason as to why we got where we got (true story)."
Well, DA isn't doing the EAS commercials. There are no t-shirts and blankets with DA's face on them. There are no DA Fatheads. But BQ merchandise is EVERYWHERE. And the sales are only rising and becoming more diverse. Marketing-wise and fan-wise, Quinn is our guy.
And I really wonder how that affects his relationships with his teammates. Even though all reports indicate he's been the ultimate professional this past season and he has probably gotten respect from his teammates for that...I know players won't say it publicly but I have to wonder if Bradymania has created any locker room animosity towards him. Internet hacks like me have a Quinn banner in my sig (thanks again BrowniePoints!), for example.
Even if you're a selfless, team-first player, how would you feel knowing a rookie who has thrown 3 real passes in the NFL, is receiving all this attention and focus? It's just human nature to have some anger, especially when it creates instability at a key position in your "family. (team)"
So, I figure this makes a good topic of discussion...tell me your thoughts.
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The ones who angered about this(if any) are the jealous ones,...I mean c'mon what's BQ supposed to do?...turn these things down? I would have to say the way players might feel about him is how well he can handle all the attention while knowing where his place is on the team.
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I wonder if Brady is still angered at being picked at 22....
This has been a part of sports and life forever.....It`s the competition in us....What DA feels I don`t know...But I do know how he has handled it...At least in public...
He was one of the first guys to meet Quinn after his series against the 49`ers....
This thread is about assuming how another person feels about a situation....There will be no wrong or right answeres to this question....
It is merely a thought of how one person feels about another persons feeling about his situation....
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Instead of being mad at him, ask him for his agents phone number. At least he is getting Brady his money thru endorsments and not the team, although he did sit out half of preseason over money.
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You played football. What do you think?
A hot shot who holds out is cheered and gets all the attention, while the guy who led you to your best season since the team has come back gets a ton of grief. And that guy is very popular w/his teammates. So really......what do you think?
I really think the fans are creating something that is not good. That's the main reason I have been so vocal in support of DA. Truth is.........I have not said who I want to start..........I just want the fans to quit forcing the issue. Let the coaches decide. Quit trying to run DA out of town and anoint BQ the Savior.
Not that you all will listen..... *L*...........but, I try.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Quote:
You played football. What do you think?
A hot shot who holds out is cheered and gets all the attention, while the guy who led you to your best season since the team has come back gets a ton of grief. And that guy is very popular w/his teammates. So really......what do you think?
I really think the fans are creating something that is not good. That's the main reason I have been so vocal in support of DA. Truth is.........I have not said who I want to start..........I just want the fans to quit forcing the issue. Let the coaches decide. Quit trying to run DA out of town and anoint BQ the Savior.
Not that you all will listen..... *L*...........but, I try.
Which is exactly why I'm bringing it up. Cuz I know how human nature is. Many times, people don't like the golden boy.
But I also don't think the fans TRULY have a say in the matter. This FO and coaching staff doesn't seem like the type who would allow it.
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I know K2 and Edwards like Quinn, or at least it seems so, as well as Joe Thomas... I'm sure hes a likable teammate hes smart and hard working, what else more do you need besides talent.
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"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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JT has publicly come out that Quinn is a great friend...they are roomates on the road....I think there was a big article about the two of them in Cleveland Magazine?
And Quinn has been to all the Edwards fund raisers (not DA) such as the bowling gig in Michigan and they seemed to be pals.
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Yeah the Cleveland magazine article shows Thomas and Quinn are apparently really good friends.
I don't think that the offensive weapons we have will be cold to Quinn or look down on him because they liked DA. I think they are doing what they are supposed to: sticking to their field general until he is no longer that. What are they supposed to do, come out and say "Yeah, Derek's our guy, but I can't wait for Brady to get behind center"? No, that would be horrific. I'm not surprised, at all, to hear everyone come out and back up DA and remind the fans that he's the one that got them where they are.
Just because they profess that (which is the truth, by the way) doesn't mean they stick blindly to DA's side if he gets traded this offseason. If DA is gone, you'll be hearing everyone come out and say "Brady is our leader now. It is on our shoulders to help the kid go out there and perform at the same level, or better, than Derek did for us last year."
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Vers I've been on the side youre on.
If you look it up, ive been in DA's corner from the start and as long as he's been the starter, and seeing how he got the ball out quicker and better than Frye and how our offense moved the ball in the beginning of the season. And i was cemented in his corner after seeing him slide through the snow against Buffalo. That did it for me, dude just looks like a Brown.
I've made posts (not gonna look em up) that have expressed worry that if we get rid of DA and let Quinn start, he might not have the same rapport with his teammates that DA has because he has certainly developed a very very good chemistry especially with Braylon.
I really get the feeling that if Brady gets annointed without necessarily earning it that it could create some, for lack of better word, resentment. I mean if BQ comes in training camp and beats out DA cuz he outplays him fine, but if they just hand him the job, i dont think itd bode well for team chemistry.
The way we handle this is very very important.
Marjax, I agree with you too.
And to who said that if we annoint Brady our players will say "Brady is our leader now"...sure they will, thats what they need to say. Thats the professional thing to do. Whether or not they believe it is another story, and that would worry me.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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God I can't wait until some decisions are made so that all the crap that's floating around about Quinn and Anderson will come to an end.
Geez, Bring on the draft already
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Steve, I usually like your thoughts, but sliding in the snow, makes him look like a Brown? I dont think he fits anywhere, JMO.. He's a goofball, that rearlly takes things seriously.. " Yeah, I tell jokes in the huddle" DOWN BY 14 POINTS and thinks its fun and games.. Thats why he wont ever see a $65 million payday.. Jokes? Comon man, one shot..
My jersey is a Quinn, #10, and he will start next season.. We need a slinger that can throw a laser for 5-12 yards out, consistantly.. Anderson is not that guy..
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Absolutly Quinn shouldnt be handed the starting role, he will earn it.. Brady knows whats going, and he knows what he has to do, to be on the field come game 1.. It is very interesting to know what the Browns will do.. I dont think they are going to shoot Brady off the team, without having a full camp.. Because, regaurdless of how Anderson did in the season, he has many, many flaws.. Some that can be taught and others that cant be taught.
We'll see what happens
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1. These same guys that are behind DA, where claiming they were behind Frye all the way and that he was the guy. You get behind the guy that lines up behind center no matter what. Your personal opinions are that and should remain that, no team needs open dissent in the locker room.
2. I not sold that the fans cheered Quinn and booed DA because of liking Quinn more, as much as many believe that the result of the game didn't matter in the scope of playoffs, and we/they thought we should see what Quinn offers while we have real game time to do so.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Not a bad topic here Ammo. I'll try to stay on it. Here's the thing I think is happening with a lot of fans. Not all the fans. But a lot. Rewind to last April when we got JT and the circus that became the "turning point" of the Browns franchise... (the moment we traded up to get Brady Quinn). The excitement in Cleveland was near a peak considering what the Cavs were doing at the time as well. Brady Quinn was chosen and seen by all as THE GUY who would lead us to success. Camp starts, Frye and DA begin their respective pillow fight for the starting job and Quinn holds out. But he's still THE GUY. Week one comes not with a Bang but with a whimper and so goes Charlie. DA starts the next week against Cincy but BQ is still THE GUY. Now, fast forward 15 weeks. The Browns are 10-6 on the verge of the playoffs. We have found the long-elusive success we've all been waiting for but there's just one problem with this dream come true. Quinn is NOT the guy. DA has become THE GUY and no one on Earth saw it coming. So a lot of fans are still coping with this scenario, I think. And while DA is THE GUY, there's still those questions... Can BQ still be THE GUY? Can he be better than DA? Can DA overcome some apparent miscues and make us forget all about BQ? See, we Browns fans, don't really like unanswered questions, in case you have noticed. So we clamor for insight and demand closure. But nothing gets answered and frustration ensues. Even when we have no right to be frustrated. And so it goes. What will happen? When? How? Ahhhh, if only we could be so lucky. 
Edit: Sorry Ammo, I don't think I stayed on topic. 
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OK, here's the thing. Talent will decide this argument. Winning silences criics and cures most ills. So, even if DA is more respected by teammates (no proof he is or is not) or is a better leader (again, no way to prove), if Quinn comes in and wins...he will be forgotten and noone will care. Unless he starts losing.
Here's the best example for what I am trying to convey. Jon Kitna is a well-respected leader and a great guy by all accounts. Palmer was a 1st round draft pick that could have been a bust or could have been their franchise QB. Kitna guided the Bengals to their best offensive year in nearly a decade, then stepped aside as Palmer took the reigns.
I don't remember an uprising that Palmer was being handed everything or that his teammates wouldn't respect him for not beating out Kitna in the preseason(they handed him the starting role). Why? Because the coaching staff knew that Palmer had more talent,skills and was the better long-term QB for them. And since they were right, they never caught any grief for their decision.
I believe our coaches / FO will make the correct assessment.
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Marjax, I agree with you too.
And to who said that if we annoint Brady our players will say "Brady is our leader now"...sure they will, thats what they need to say. Thats the professional thing to do. Whether or not they believe it is another story, and that would worry me.
But therein lies the difference of opinion. You seem to think that what they say and what they believe will be two different things. If truly professionals, what they say and what they believe will be the same. I don't think that Winslow or Edwards come to the game with the mindset that they know what's best for this football team. They know what their job is, and if they have faith in this team's decision makers, then they will believe the guy under center is their leader and the guy who will give them the best chance to win.
I think to make it in the NFL, you've got to have the ability to separate personal feelings and friendships from professional feelings and friendships. I don't think anyone on the offense will come out in this season with the gut feeling that Anderson should or should not be here. Despite how you feel about him personally, there is a separation between that and how you feel about what happens in the business aspect of the NFL.
This past offseason, Brett Favre was publicly lobbying hard to get the Packers to trade for Randy Moss. They didn't. But I highly doubt he went into any practice, game, or team meeting feeling like the weapons at his disposal were not what they should be. I'd expect the same attitude from any other football player -- you have to believe in the team you have, and believe that your group of guys can be the best. I don't see Winslow or Edwards doing anything but that.
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j/c:
Some decent arguments on here. Well....except for one guy who is off the wall.
I will say this........choosing a QB can be tricky. Some guys are looked at in a very positive light by their teammates. Trust is a big thing. For example........this team would have started a mutiny if Couch would have been named the starter over KH.
With this team...........it isn't K2 and Edwards who I am worried about. It's a unit that is way more important to our success than those two.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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What, the OLine? You think they're going to be the vocal ones if Brady takes the reins?
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Vers- Sometimes, it's best for me to answer posts without lookng at other threads that follow... so my answer will be all mine- and not influenced by other Dawgs' thoughts. That's what I'm doing in this post. Quote:
I really think the fans are creating something that is not good. That's the main reason I have been so vocal in support of DA.
A noble cause... but I don't think you have to work quite so hard at it. Those of us who can think for ourselves know exactly what DA brought to the table during the '07 campaign. He has upside/he has downside... and more up than down. Dude showed me something this year that shocked me- I was one who expected him to go before either Frye OR Dorsey. For that pleasant surprise, he now gets all the consideration I can flow him- before I can just blithely say "trade him for picks- seeya." Now look- no one's ever going to mistake him for Peyton Manning, but at the same time, none of us can dismiss the contributions he made this year. Dude made plays that brought us out of our seats all year. He also made plays that sometimes made us sink into our seats and scratch our heads. That's the problem for many Dawgs- he isn't a complete and total slam-dunk... and that's what fuels this (as you suggested) "unhealthy" fan mindset. (read: QB controversy)
The reason I suggested that you don't have to work so hard comes with your next statement:
Quote:
I just want the fans to quit forcing the issue.
That's where we go in separate directions with this thing. You see, I don't think the fans have as much say as their little egos tell them that they do.
Since Randy Lerner hired Phil Savage and Romeo Crennel (and left football matters to football people), there has only been one incident where "fan pressure" may have played a role- the power struggle between Savage and John Collins. Since then, it's been all business... and the fickle fans be damned. Good thing, too- because our team has solidified and improved to the point that we won TEN GAMES IN ONE SEASON. With all the knee-jerking that goes on in Brownstown every year... when was the last time we saw a team settle in enough to notch double digits in the win column? Credit the FO for ignoring the fans, and staying the course on this one.
My guess is that this current FO will not bow to ANY amount of pressure from the fans. And that's as it should be. Professionals are now running the show... and they're going to do things that will sometimes be unpopular with the "know nothing" fans in bars, living rooms and at CBS stadium. They will do what they think is right for the team... and the fans will just have to wait and see if the FO was right with their choices. Bending to fan pressure is the kind of thing that a Madison Avenue-type like John Collins would do. Football men won't... unless that fan has earned his place onto the staff at 76 Groza.
Vers- you're NEVER gonna convince a rabid Dawg that the meat he wants to eat might not be fully cooked. He's gonna eat it NOW, and let his digestive tract sort out all the nasty details.You can't change his mindset... but I admire your willingness to fight "the good fight."
(I'll bet that all your really good friends describe you as a "tireless crusader for the righteous cause," don't they? -just a wild guess...)
My advice- sit back, relax, and watch this FO continue to do what they've been doing- ignoring all the media hype, fan pressure and so-called controversy... and continue to build this team the right way.
BQ might be the answer. DA might be also. Truth is, NOT ONE OF US KNOWS for sure about either of them. That's for the professionals to determine... and they've forgotten more about both these players than we fans will ever know. I trust them. I know you do too. That's enough for me.
And a little last "btw" to Ammo (thanks for the thread, Dawg...):
I trust that most of the players don't care that Quinn is on commercials. He's "pretty"- which makes him marketable by Madison Ave. standards. Once he puts on that helmet, only his game can make him look pretty. Players who know The Game will judge him as such, if they are professionals, and work for a professional outfit. If Brady indeed has "game," most of his teammates will be happy to play alongside him... when the FO says it's time.
Bottom line: I think this current FO has a plan, and a strategy to get there... and the fans don't play into that strategy like they did when the team was being run by "media guys." An entirely different culture has been placed here over the past three years... and it's not as vulnerable to BS as it used to be.
In other words... relax. We're in good hands. (Finally... **whew!!!)
.02
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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jax that ability to separate is huge. I guess thats where I worry. I'm not saying they wont be able to handle it and act and feel accordingly. Just worry a little
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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I agree, that is a huge part. But I don't think you can last in the NFL very long if you don't have that ability to separate. Just because you are friends with someone does not mean you have to be a bad apple if your friend gets traded, or benched, or what have you.
I feel like if a player has a strong enough opinion about a personnel move that it affects their game, they should quit playing and start coaching or working in the front office. I know everyone's going to have personal opinions. But that should definitely NOT affect their game.
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The great thing is that the Browns don't have to do anything with the QB situation... Why would they??? If DA can continue like he played for the first13 games of last season, wow are we all in great shape... He got tired mentally and phyically and started taking chances, making poor choices he shouldn't have... Just like he did in college... Is it not what's best for BQ to sit watch and learn??? Maybe for a few years? I would bet if you asked Montana,Young, Marino, Aikman, Simms, Kosar, Kelly, Moon, Boomer and any current or former coach if they could afford to let their young QB's sit and mature for a few years, I wonder what they'de say??? Is this situation not whats best for all inside and outside of the organization as a hole??? No pressure on BQ or anyone within the organization... So BQ can just absorb, pick brains, get smarter, bigger, stronger, faster, better... This situation is every NFL teams dream for new QB toys... Come on some of you... We are not talking about the Favre - Rodgers (4 years), situation...   Patience is more than a virtue here... It's non existant... Please, please, pretty please let this, my Cameron go... Please for the love of God and all involved...
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Good point Boise. We will definitely be in good shape if we keep Anderson.
I think the argument to get rid of him is that his value is high after a breakout season and if he doesn't do as well next year, we may not be able to get as much for him. With no first round pick this year, and a few teams in the top 15 looking for a QB, we may be able to get back into the first round by dealing Derek. It's not that we're complacent with handing the team to Quinn or that Anderson has served his purpose here in Cleveland. It's just a matter of taking advantage of the value while it's still there.
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We were watching a video about class status and attitudes in my Media Studies class and it got me thinking...and I'm just throwing this out there.
I noticed there's a generation gap between a lot of Quinn supporters and a lot of DA supporters, and I sat back and wondered.
I can talk X's and O's til I'm blue in the face, but subconsciously there's another reason why I'm a BQ fan and I know it's another reason why some of my friends are BQ fans as well.
I can relate to him. I can't relate to DA as well. DA grew up in some small town in Oregon. BQ grew up in Dublin, OH, which is a lot like where I grew up. I'm gonna be 21 in a couple days, BQ is 23, we're similar ages. BQ is a dedicated weight lifter and so am I. If BQ weren't a pro QB and went to my school (and were in my graduating class for that matter), there's a chance we'd be in the same group of friends.
Basically, I think a lot of people my age in my social status (where, face it, a lot of the young ticketholders at games aren't in the lower class) can relate to BQ. He's one of us.
What does that have to do with football? Absolutely nothing. But subconsciously it may be something we (as in people my age) think about when discussing BQ.
Last edited by Ammo; 01/24/08 02:18 PM.
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How old do you think DA is? 
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Quote:
How old do you think DA is?
24, I know. But Oregon is the west coast, it's a different kind of life out there. It may not make sense to some people but there's something about how we relate to BQ that we don't relate to DA.
Last edited by Ammo; 01/24/08 02:38 PM.
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Oh, I get it. So he is 55 in Oregon years. 
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That is the most ridiculous thing I've read in a while.
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Oh, I get it. So he is 55 in Oregon years.
You're completely missing the point...
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Quote:
That is the most ridiculous thing I've read in a while.
You don't think there's SOME truth to it? At all? People don't look for people "like them" as heroes?
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Quote:
Quote:
Oh, I get it. So he is 55 in Oregon years.
You're completely missing the point...
Actually, we aren't missing the point. You feel you relate better to Quinn, cause he's from Dublin, grew up upper middle class, and went to college in the midwest. (like you). DA is from some place you know nothing about, he's a year or 2 older - so consequently you can't relate to him.
Here's a thought: If you can only relate to players that grew up similar to you you'll have a tough time relating to 95% of the players in the NFL.
Your thought process is interesting, but your example is bad and carries no weight whatsoever.
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Actually, we aren't missing the point. You feel you relate better to Quinn, cause he's from Dublin, grew up upper middle class, and went to college in the midwest. (like you). DA is from some place you know nothing about, he's a year or 2 older - so consequently you can't relate to him.
Here's a thought: If you can only relate to players that grew up similar to you you'll have a tough time relating to 95% of the players in the NFL.
Your thought process is interesting, but your example is bad and carries no weight whatsoever.
Now we're onto something! Yes, most people have trouble identifying with 95% of players in the NFL.
Then boom, someone comes along who apparently has the skills to be great because he was great in college AND he has the interests that many in my age group can relate to. Basically, if he wasn't a big time college QB and now a pro Athlete, he'd be one of us. One of the guys who likes to go golfing, go to the clubs (or the bars in the case of Athens, OH), uses facebook, loved the Browns growing up, watches Greys (which jumped out at me because I'm one of the few straight men with the security to say I watch that show too), etc.
Point is, people subconsciously hang out with those who are most "like them." So why shouldn't it subconsciously happen in sports with when it comes to being a fan of someone?
I'm not saying this is something I actively think about because it's not. But subconsciously I truly believe it plays a factor in our beliefs outside of the X's and O's of football. The older generation may be a bit more objective in their views, not only based on experience but because they don't relate to "kids these days."
I hope I'm making some sort of sense...I know I'm being a little out there right now but it's a bit of an out there subject that might explain Bradymania outside of the X's and O's of football.
Last edited by Referee 3; 01/24/08 03:16 PM.
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Legend
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Legend
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You're making a little sense, but at the same time, you're defying sense. DA is just like you - young, out of college, wealthy - bid deal that he didn't grow up beside you.
I think you are attempting to show a reason for a bias, not a bias for a reason.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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How do you know this?
Know was the wrong word, I know they both expect him to start next year from what I have heard though, which leads me to believe they like him.
PRO-BOWLER!
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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I noticed there's a generation gap between a lot of Quinn supporters and a lot of DA supporters
There is? I don't buy it for one second. Most people I know that are my age want Quinn, not DA. The same goes for younger and older people I know. In fact the only people I know who perfer DA over Quinn are the ones who don't like Quinn because of personal reasons, or simply support DA for what he has done.
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I can relate to him. I can't relate to DA as well. DA grew up in some small town in Oregon. BQ grew up in Dublin, OH, which is a lot like where I grew up.
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I'm gonna be 21 in a couple days, BQ is 23, we're similar ages.
DA is so much older.
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there's a chance we'd be in the same group of friends.
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Basically, I think a lot of people my age in my social status (where, face it, a lot of the young ticketholders at games aren't in the lower class) can relate to BQ. He's one of us.
Is DA poor? Did he come from a poor family? Just because you are from a small town doesn't relate to economic status.
This quote makes you sound like a shallow snob, not to mention an elitist.
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But subconsciously it may be something we (as in people my age) think about when discussing BQ.
If this is how most college age students feel this country is in deep trouble.
#gmstrong
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Yeah Ammo, I get what you're saying, but I don't think it holds much weight.
Yes, BQ is closer associated to guys like you and I than DA is. But not by much. And it's not like DA being from the west coast means he relates to an older generation... there's no correlation there.
I don't really think the age gap means anything.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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One of the guys who likes to go golfing, go to the clubs (or the bars in the case of Athens, OH), uses facebook, loved the Browns growing up, watches Greys (which jumped out at me because I'm one of the few straight men with the security to say I watch that show too), etc.
On one hand, Anderson has a rocket and a proven winning record.
On the other hand, Quinn appears to be a more polished product coming out of college...also he watches "Grey's Anatomy" and uses Facebook.
Edge: Quinn
I don't see a generational gap in the DA/Quinn debate - I see gaps of intelligence. I see way, way more drunken imbeciles and people who passingly watch the game call for Quinn. A lot of rash or impatient people as well. I don't see that so much with the DA crowd. And that's not to say that the Quinn argument is for idiots -- it's really not a far-fetched or completely idiotic view at all...I'm just saying who I hear what from.
And for the record...I hate talking about sides and crowds...because I don't really like DA all that much, but I really think he should get the nod next year barring some phenomenal draft picks. The biggest problem I have with people arguing for Quinn is that they so often take it as given fact that a 24 year-old quarterback who has started a season and a handful has no room for growth.
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