The only way we can assure ourselves of getting Dart is take him at #2. If our FO has the best QBs rated about the same, and we have no way of knowing that, then just take him at 2 and ignore the criticisms that will come our way. JMO
Criticism will be based on the results or the lack there of. If whomever they pick balls out those voices will be silent. If whomever they pick fails, the criticism will grow louder and be deserved.
My biggest fear, not saying it will turn out this way, but desperation tends to lead to mistakes. I think this FO is in fear of their jobs and I just hope that desperation doesn't lead to yet another mistake at the QB position.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I see a few posters that seem to really like Dart. I am in no way whatsoever, an NFL QB talent evaluator. So... I checked at least 5 draft profiles for Jaxson Dart. Everyone lists several positives, but they all point out a glaring weakness in something that sounds critical to me. They all pointed out that he played in a one read system and scored poorly in reading defenses and going to a second option based on that.
Again, this isn't me, just what I've read. Can any posters who has watched him a lot and knows what to look, for address this concern?
I have said all along that this draft should be a 2-fer. 2 QB, 2 RB, 2 OL ..... plus a TE, LB, and DB.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
You asked a question about the Lane Kiffin offensive scheme.
The reason you see that is because it is classic "group think" lazy analysis by many.
One thinks he is on to something to be critical about. Others copy and paste.
Total rubbish. College systems are not NFL schemes. There are all kinds of spread offenses run in college that are based upon a single reads.
Dart's play in college and how he will play in the NFL has nothing to do with the offense run at MS.
You evaluate quarterbacks by the way "they play." What do they do well? How does that look. What characteristics does the prospect display?
You evaluate their talent. Not the scheme.
There are tons of tiny details you watch for.
You have to forecast how the guy will play in the NFL after he learns a new system.
All the prospects no matter where they come from will have to learn a new system in the NFL.
In addition ( and much harder) they will have to learn NFL defenses and how to play against them. A learning curve they all go through.
Dart has skills that are common to NFL quarterbacks.
I assume that was an answer to my questions. Thanks for the feedback. I mentioned the college "system" because I remembered the year Couch came out, I kept hearing that that he didn't even have a playbook at Kentucky.
I am aware of the group think that happens. Not sure how that gets started, but I think part of it is there is way too much time between the end of the season and the draft. I remember when Myles was taken #1 overall. For a long time, he was consensus #1, then the stories of him not being a committed football player and not really loving the game came out.
The first time I watched Dart's tape. I wondered why he was not in the conversation as one of the top QB prospects.
I started posting his tape and saying this guy is as good as anyone else. At that time he was not considered a first round pick more in the second or third round.
Now after months he is beginning to to show up in mock drafts as a top three pick.
The first time I watched Dart's tape. I wondered why he was not in the conversation as one of the top QB prospects.
I started posting his tape and saying this guy is as good as anyone else. At that time he was not considered a first round pick more in the second or third round.
Now after months he is beginning to to show up in mock drafts as a top three pick.
That is wild. Of course it works the other way, and sometimes intentional. I am certain teams put out negatives on players hoping that player falls to them.
Wow. Not sure how it will all play out or if he is right, but McShay's reasoning and backing it up was really impressive. I like how he mentioned Stefanski's success w/ QBs too.
I only made it to the 15 min mark so far but it is a good listen, whether one agrees with him or not.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
I thought there is no separation between Dart, Sanders, or Ward.
I see them more as equals. Different strengths and weaknesses.
Today Mel comes out with his new mock and has Dart going to the Saints at nine.
Charles Davis has the Browns taking Sanders at two and Giants taking Dart at three.
PFF has the Titans trading back to three and taking Dart.
Others like Tony Grossi has the three qb's going 1,2,3.
I like Dart a lot. He can play football and do it all. He has improved every year. His numbers show consistency. He is mobile. He has gained 1500 yards as a runner. He is faster than Ward. He has the quickest release of the three. He is also the youngest.
Mary Kay has some jaw dropping dumb takes often. She’s training Bastock to follow in her suit. Dan Labbe has to be rolling his eyes at times.
The flack she caught after her comments on Carman and Lima’s morning show last season when talking about the Browns getting Watson to be a functional QB was an all timer.
That's the funny thing about MKC. When she says something people like they praise her. When she says something they disagree with they ridicule her. Sort of like the weather. It changes all the times. Sometimes people like the weather conditions and sometimes they don't.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Mary Kay has some jaw dropping dumb takes often. She’s training Bastock to follow in her suit. Dan Labbe has to be rolling his eyes at times.
The flack she caught after her comments on Carman and Lima’s morning show last season when talking about the Browns getting Watson to be a functional QB was an all timer.
Like always, she has good sources that usually allow her to report news quicker than most. When she goes off script and riffs on her own, what you see is what you get. That said, she did report that the Browns were re-signing Flacco last year so her sources aren't always up to task, either.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
I feel like she has brief bursts of timely and correct info that break up longer stretches of getting scooped by national reporters, muckraking, and just all-around bad takes.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Daily my head spins. I think this scenario is good and then I question it.
Ward, Sanders, Dart are considered the top three quarterback prospects.
Although Ward seems to have the edge. There are many who really question Ward as a decision maker.
Sanders is being run down and built up. He is really good at some things and decision making is one of them.
Dart IMO is solid all the way around. One quality IMO makes him a different QB than Sanders or Ward.
He plays a more vertical game than both Sanders or Ward. They look to extend plays by moving horizontally. They roll out, drift and look for open guys.
Dart moves up (not back) in the pocket. He keeps the game in front of him. He throws to the middle often. He is mobile but he moves forward. At the same time he has gained over 1500 yards in three years running downhill.
I see the three more as equals with different strengths and weaknesses.
Hunter is the best player in this draft. Carter is the best defensive player in this draft.
What do you do with the first, second and third pick when all three teams need a quarterback?
I see Ward way better than the other 2. Arm talent is way superior. Decision making (at times) can be questionable, however, I believe that can be coached up.
I do not think there is much that separates the remainder of the QB class of 2024. As such, if I am the Browns, I hope Ward is there at #2 and if so, take him. otherwise, pivot, grab Hunter at #2 and pick whoever is the highest rated QB on their board and available at #33 - Dart, Sanders, Shough, Milroe. I would not trade back into 1st to grab any of them.
My ideal scenario (/"conspiracy theory") is slowly turning into we already have a deal in place for Joe Milton, but aren't executing it to leverage the Giants into a trade up for Shedeur. Wolf and Berry overlapped here in 2018. Vrabel was just here. Add Flacco as a "bridge"/competition (Let Milton beat him if he's ready.) The offense was humming for a bit with that "big armed" archetype. Milton also has the Haslam-Tennessee tie and the AVP as OC tie back into system /language familiarity.
Take Hunter at 3. Make him a "passing down"/red zone "specialist" on both sides of the ball. Put in other guys on running downs. Passing downs are the "money downs." Avoid the bludgeoning running downs. Travis looks like a great option as a put it up and let him go get it target. I think he might be a guy who can handle the mental of both sides if you can limit the physical wear and tear to close to "normal" amounts. If that means not playing first and second downs on both sides to manage the load, so be it.
Use trade down pick to trade back up for a tackle. Or stick at 33 and take one there.
Take a couple RBs. Brashard Smith is probably my biggest draft crush right now.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I see Ward way better than the other 2. Arm talent is way superior. Decision making (at times) can be questionable, however, I believe that can be coached up.
I do not think there is much that separates the remainder of the QB class of 2024. As such, if I am the Browns, I hope Ward is there at #2 and if so, take him. otherwise, pivot, grab Hunter at #2 and pick whoever is the highest rated QB on their board and available at #33 - Dart, Sanders, Shough, Milroe. I would not trade back into 1st to grab any of them.
If, for whatever reason, you end up NOT taking a QB at 2, then I think you HAVE to trade back up into the first in order to get one of the better QBs. I know it's silly season right now, but it sounds like anything except for development-project QBs are going to be gone by our second pick.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
I see Ward way better than the other 2. Arm talent is way superior. Decision making (at times) can be questionable, however, I believe that can be coached up.
I do not think there is much that separates the remainder of the QB class of 2024. As such, if I am the Browns, I hope Ward is there at #2 and if so, take him. otherwise, pivot, grab Hunter at #2 and pick whoever is the highest rated QB on their board and available at #33 - Dart, Sanders, Shough, Milroe. I would not trade back into 1st to grab any of them.
If, for whatever reason, you end up NOT taking a QB at 2, then I think you HAVE to trade back up into the first in order to get one of the better QBs. I know it's silly season right now, but it sounds like anything except for development-project QBs are going to be gone by our second pick.
If I am truly competing to win games NOW, I am not thinking about project in the first 2 rounds. Project constitutes multiple years as a possibility they become a starter at some point. Athletes now for the win...
Trade down from #2 because there isn't a player worthy of the capital you will get in return. Get the extra 2026 first rounder for when there is a better QB prospect to spend your draft money on.
I know it isn't being said AT ALL, anywhere.. but I would love to see a little trade down and take Ashton Jeanty. I wasn 't seeing any player in this entire draft as a generational talent, until I really started watching a lot of tape and the one I am seeing is Jeanty. This kid is special. Whether Chubb comes back or not, Jeanty would solidify a backfield with Chubb for a couple of seasons, or take it over without him. You want a player that is going to take a lot of pressure off the QB position? That player is Jeanty. We know RBs can't do it alone, but he will keep you competitive and put you in positive situations on 2nd and 3rd down... and he can catch out of the backfield.. AND he can pass block better than any other back in this draft. He really is a 3 down back. Be damned with the RBs aren't worthy of a top ten pick mantra, the age of the RB is circling back around.
I see Ward way better than the other 2. Arm talent is way superior. Decision making (at times) can be questionable, however, I believe that can be coached up.
I do not think there is much that separates the remainder of the QB class of 2024. As such, if I am the Browns, I hope Ward is there at #2 and if so, take him. otherwise, pivot, grab Hunter at #2 and pick whoever is the highest rated QB on their board and available at #33 - Dart, Sanders, Shough, Milroe. I would not trade back into 1st to grab any of them.
If, for whatever reason, you end up NOT taking a QB at 2, then I think you HAVE to trade back up into the first in order to get one of the better QBs. I know it's silly season right now, but it sounds like anything except for development-project QBs are going to be gone by our second pick.
It might be only "development" projects at 2. I feel like Sanders low turnover worthy pass numbers hide his not throwing it to "open" receivers and bad sack taking which is not quite a TO, but not that far off. Bad down and distances are killer. I also wonder how much Hunter influenced the turnover worthy throw numbers. He had no business making some of the contested catches he came down with.
Sort of why I like the Milton "option." Already has some "development" and (seemingly) lower draft capital cost. Plus, I think the style of offense we could run with him fits the rest of the offensive players we (could) have. Run, play action, arm to take the top off, mobility to make defenders stay home.
Could he fail? Sure. But so could the guys people want us to take at 2. Cost is a lot lower and his upside is higher. It looked like some things clicked in NE to me. Hopefully Stefanski can get/has gotten good intel from AVP.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Not a surprise. I was surprised he did not run at the Combine.
It shows up clearly on the field. He is special running the ball.
He could be a tailback. His tape, it jumps off the screen when he takes off. He looks like the fastest guy on the field.
He struggles with accuracy and touch. He is clueless about layering the ball. He throws a fastball all the time. He can throw the deep well.
He is inaccurate with simple throws like to the flats. Ball placement and anticipation leaves a lot to be desired.
He is a project. But if you give him a package of plays like bootleg RPO's with a single read. Throw it or take off. That could be effective until he learns the nuances of the position.
I like the Shough story more than Shough the player. Seems to get flustered too often to me and kind of reminds me of a slightly more athletic Weeden. On time and in rhythm, he's solid. If he feels pressure, it can get pretty ugly. Seemed to have a lot of interceptable passes that were dropped/negated in the games I watched. His new nickname for me is Chuck because good or bad he's going to keep chucking the football. Placement seems really inconsistent.
I don't think he'll be high on our board. I think the age pushes him down.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
He may have age concern like Weeden but IMO it ends there.
The main issue with Weeden was between the ears. He was a hayseed. He could not lead a cub scout troupe. Weeden did have a big arm. Just didn't know where to throw the ball.
He was not an athlete like Shough. Shough ran a 4.6.
He comes off as a mature guy who has impressed many in interviews.
He would be worth a shot in the third round. Under some circumstances maybe the second round.
IMO these guys are closer than many think. Ward, Sanders, Dart, and Shough.
Ward is the leader because he has the Wow factor. He can do some things that the others cannot do. You bet on him reaching for his best. Hopeful he will clean up his faults.
Sanders IMO is more ready to play because I think he has a stronger foundation in pro set offenses and an understanding of pro concepts and defenses.
Dart and Shough are really second round guys with good upside. Because of the need for quarterbacks they could easily go in the first round.
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