Do you think putting such an emphasis on crimes committed by illegals will have a significant impact on overall rape/murder when illegals make up such a small part of violent criminals? It's also been shown that illegal aliens are no more likely to commit violent crimes than US citizens.
That's why I made the comment about crimes committed by illegals vs the same crimes committed by citizens. We already have laws against these violent crimes... as well as being here illegally. Go ahead and deport illegals to your heart's content, but don't try to pretend that this admin is doing this because it's the right thing. It's all theatre to distract.
I agree with you for the most part. I do find the part in bold somewhat troublesome.
How has it been shown? I question the validity of such an assertion (not by you, by a study that says so.)
The data they used may suggest such, but when other studies/data suggest less than half of violent crimes are reported (link), and less than half of those cases that are reported are closed (link), how accurate can the analysis be when there seems to be no way of knowing who committed most of the violence?
Now this is speculation on my part, but it would seem to make sense that domestic violence cases are a big part of the violent crimes committed by US citizens. These types of crimes are relatively "easy" to solve. Gang violence would also seem to have fairly obvious motives, and offenders likely have prior offenses as criminal records generally show a progression before violence. Crimes by transients, which at some point all illegal immigrants would more or less have to be, are much harder to solve. Fingerprints and DNA wouldn't be in local databases, motive could be hard to establish, and perpetrators could be long gone.
Now, immigrants could also be a large chunk of the victims of the unreported violence. So I'm not trying to claim they're all homicidal maniacs by any stretch. There just seems to be a lot of missing information to really know whether or not that statement in bold is actually true. It could be. The missing data matching what they had seems a rather large assumption to me.
....Almost didn't post because I don't really want to distract, but I already did the digging and I found the numbers interesting/somewhat unexpected, and maybe others will, too.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Clem I do not get what you are arguing about with tasty. You both seem to be saying the same thing in slightly different ways. I don’t think he was proposing censoring anyone, he was attacking a poster who would gladly take the rights of some folks away that he deemed unworthy. We all should oppose censorship but sadly a lot of lefties are gung ho for it.
You mean the way trump has blocked the AP because they won't call it "The gulf of America"?
That kind of censorship?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Show me where the ap has been prevented from publishing or producing information. I think it as you that made the same nonsensical argument a while back in another context. I explained the difference to you but clearly you chose to ignore. When reality does not fit your view you go straight to Kubler Ross’s first stage in the grieving process…….denial.
They have been barred from access to the press corp because they won't say what trump wants them to say by calling the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America.
How can you not clearly see that trump is punishing them in an attempt to force them to say what he wants them to?
Show me anywhere else that the press has been "prevented from publishing or producing information". You may be able to show where the previous administration applied pressure in order to get them not to publish certain things but you can't show where the White House directly punished them for doing otherwise. I'm sorry you have been so blinded.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Been wondering when you are going to show us where ICE came into a school and took students out. That is what you said and I think you were lying. When and where??
I did not say he didn’t “punish” them. I said they were not censored by the federal government. I have provided numerous examples of government censoring individuals and, again, you choose to ignore. The AP is not an example of censorship.
So who do you claim censored them? The "federal government" doesn't exactly nail down who was responsible. I've scanned this page and seen nothing about you claiming censorship other than claiming holocaust deniers and Nazis should be able to say anything the want without being questioned. But in case you missed it they hold rallies and shout nasty, hateful things in town squares all across America.
In fact they did that very thing not long ago here in Nashville. Nobody censored them. People did stand up to their hate and local media reported about exactly who and what they were however.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
There is so much donkey dung in that post i cannot mess with it until I find my galoshes. So just one point. Show me where I said “holacaust deniers cannot be questioned “. Show where I said that. Anywhere! Show me where I said anyone cannot be questioned. Anyone!!! You make stuff up!
So you can't show other examples of claiming people are being censored on this entire page and when I call you out on that you claim I'm the one making stuff up?
The reason I said that is because your claim was they're being censored is a lie. So the only thing left is that they're being questioned. Because nobody is or has censored them to begin with. That's not a me issue. That's a you issue.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
You say: “ my claim they are being censored is a lie”. Who is “they”?
I will try this one more time: show me where I said you cannot question holacaust deniers. A very specific accusation you made about me. Show it. You seem to be saying I said it on this thread so it should be easy to find. Let’s see it. .
Woofer the best thing that congress did was kill that stupid bill. You lefties keep shouting that the bill would save the country. In fact it was a pile of donkey dung!! There were a number of horrible inclusions in that bill but just one was enough to make it a horrible bill. It codified, made it law, that catch and release was the law of the land. That is the policy Biden chose to inflict on America for 4 years. The result was millions of unvetted illegals being dumped into American cities and states. One of Biden’ dumber policies that helped bring down his administration.
Biden did not care about the border until his fourth year when he saw that border security was important to Americans and that his disaster at the border was going to affect his election chances . Only then did he make changes to stem the flow of illegals. During fiscal year 2024 there were almost 3 million encounters at the border but from June to December after his changes they were reduced.
That's a lot of words to describe the GOP having the Dems bent over the table on their main issue... and then doing nothing with it. Dems (and a couple Repubs) brought the most aggressive bill up for debate. Republicans could've gotten way more once it was brought to the floor, but Johnson killed any and all debate at Trump's direction.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Been wondering when you are going to show us where ICE came into a school and took students out. That is what you said and I think you were lying. When and where??
Keep wondering. I’ve raised my standards and refuse to slum it in here any more.
Well after two requests for you to show where I said what you say I said, that is clearly a fruitless effort. You obviously cannot produce what you said. Of course I knew you couldn’t because I knew I never said it. N other words you made it up. Dang there is another word for that. Think think think. What is it?? Oh I remember. I guess you told a lie about what I said. Given your history, not all that hard to believe, pit. You just have a very tenuous relationship with the truth. You should work on that.
Well I am not gonna spend a bunch of time on this because I know you will ignore it. I will give you what I remember. Jay Bhattachara ( I apologize to Jay if I butchered his last name) is a world reknowed epidemiologist at Stanford U. In 2021-22 he began releasing data suggesting very strongly that shutdowns like school shutdowns being pushed by the feds, was not very helpful for preventing deaths from covid and was having other very negative effects on the people affected. Retrospective studies since have proven him correct. Despite his status in the medical research field, the Feds, FBI and a couple of other fed agencies, met with Twitter, Facebook et al and pressured them to block him from publication. In response to government pressure they censored him.
There were multiple other authors, scientists and researchers who were also censored. If you want to read more I suggest googling a David Zweig an author who researched this subject extensively. Here is just one quote from his writing.
“Twitter did suppress views, including the views of doctors and scientific experts whose views conflicted with the official position of the White House, CDC guidelines or were contrarian but true”.
I know you will probably (surely) blow all that off. That first stage , denial, is very powerful. And you have three more stages to go before reaching acceptance. Good luck with that.
It would've been one thing if the bill, flawed as it may have been, had been taken to the floor, argued back and forth, and ultimately failed to pass. With the limited expectations I have with Congress, I honestly could've lived with this outcome.
It was clear that the GOP had them by the short hairs and didn't even take up the bill for debate. They could've extracted so much more of their border agenda. I think not bringing the bill to the floor at all (at Trump's direction) made it clear that the GOP value the border more as a talking point they can keep falling back on vs a problem to be solved.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
It was clear that the GOP had them by the short hairs and didn't even take up the bill for debate. They could've extracted so much more of their border agenda. I think not bringing the bill to the floor at all (at Trump's direction) made it clear that the GOP value the border more as a talking point they can keep falling back on vs a problem to be solved.
This.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Oober, couple of thoughts . First , I do not think there were “a couple of repubs” supporting that bill. As far as I know Lankford , who helped write the bill, is the only republican I know of who came out for the bill.
Second, Mike Johnson said that bill was dead in the house well before any comment from Trump.
Third, that bill was so bad it would have taken a complete rewrite. Face it, the bill that would garner repub support would be anethma to dems. There is just too much real estate on immigration between the two parties.
Finally, given that Biden reduced encounters at the border his last six months to 45-50 k without this bill tells us something. The fact that getting a president into office who actually cares about the border resulted in about 9k encounters in his first month in office makes it clear that more legislation was not needed to control our border. After we obtain total border control and have returned millions of people who don’t belong here to their home countries we can start working on some immigration issues that need to be addressed. Work visas, e verify and others.
One final thought. What I said about the real estate between the parties may be changing. I think a lot of the sensible dems have seen the results of the Biden border and realize that it was not conducive to getting elected.They may be open to looking at some Trump immigration policies.
Let me rephrase that in English. I lied about it and I don’t have the stones to own up to it. Got it.
Drive your ass on up from Xenia, I’ll show you the size of my stones any day. But you live in Fascist Florida… so, please fly. If you think your airplane will stay n the air. Keyboard warrior.
Well after two requests for you to show where I said what you say I said, that is clearly a fruitless effort. You obviously cannot produce what you said. Of course I knew you couldn’t because I knew I never said it. N other words you made it up. Dang there is another word for that. Think think think. What is it?? Oh I remember. I guess you told a lie about what I said. Given your history, not all that hard to believe, pit. You just have a very tenuous relationship with the truth. You should work on that.
You mean history according to right wing nut jobs. AKA revisionist history. People can read the thread. You seem to be the only poster who sees it your way. But I'm not surprised by that.
Quote
Well I am not gonna spend a bunch of time on this because I know you will ignore it. I will give you what I remember. Jay Bhattachara ( I apologize to Jay if I butchered his last name) is a world reknowed epidemiologist at Stanford U. In 2021-22 he began releasing data suggesting very strongly that shutdowns like school shutdowns being pushed by the feds, was not very helpful for preventing deaths from covid and was having other very negative effects on the people affected. Retrospective studies since have proven him correct. Despite his status in the medical research field, the Feds, FBI and a couple of other fed agencies, met with Twitter, Facebook et al and pressured them to block him from publication. In response to government pressure they censored him.
Twitter and FB are not the government. Pressuring people to say what you want is not censorship according to you. If so then trump is censoring the AP.
And I'm sure that you don't think school kids spreading Covid between themselves and then taking it home to grandma and grandpa would add to the death toll. It's not my fault you believe such nonsense.
Quote
There were multiple other authors, scientists and researchers who were also censored. If you want to read more I suggest googling a David Zweig an author who researched this subject extensively. Here is just one quote from his writing.
“Twitter did suppress views, including the views of doctors and scientific experts whose views conflicted with the official position of the White House, CDC guidelines or were contrarian but true”.
I know you will probably (surely) blow all that off. That first stage , denial, is very powerful. And you have three more stages to go before reaching acceptance. Good luck with that.
I'm not blowing anything off. According to you when trump blocks the AP from the White House press corp you claim it's not censorship when in fact it is direct pressure from trump. When Biden applies pressure, while not forbidding information be posted, you call it censorship. You have zero evidence that the Biden administration forced anyone to withhold anything. All you have shown is that some places had enough common sense to go along with requests from the White House not to spread misinformation that may very well have cost American lives and you label that as censorship.
Remember what you said.....
Quote
I said they were not censored by the federal government.
You have shown none of that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
So this actually took me a minute to dig through (our govt workings are anything but simple).
HR 3602 is the equivalent bill that was killed by Trump and Johnson in the Senate. It was originally tied to aid for Ukraine, but it was known that Senate GOP weren't going to go for that, so the Ukraine aid was stripped out, and this is the bill that was left over. See the article below that not only states the GOP was largely in favor before their daddy told them no, and states the minimal differences between HR2 and HR3602.
I will say one thing... going back through this was kinda rough. The amount of flip-flopping (again, mostly by Republicans) that occurred on this issue and the related changing of the bill makes it REALLY hard to follow the timeline.
2. Johnson originally said Trump had nothing to do with it, but it was revealed later (by Trump's own big mouth, IIRC) that he did instruct Johnson to kill the bill in order to avoid giving Biden a win on immigration heading into the election. This point was a hot topic of debate as it was happening, but ultimately settled after the fact.
3. Biden was pushing this bill. They had the numbers until GOP pulled out and Johnson pulled the plug.
The immigration issue won't be truly solved until a new law is passed. Executive orders aren't laws. Regardless of how effective those are, they are only temporary.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Oh boy!!! I feel like I am back with you on my junior high playground. Which is probably appropriate for you given the level of discourse you usually provide on here. My suggestion, if you do not want to be called out for telling a lie…..don’t tell a lie. Pretty simple. Most people on here work it that way. Why don’t you try it!!
Still haven’t shown that I said what you say I said. Just dancin around. So I guess I caught you in another lie. Truth is hard for you isn’t it!!!
You still haven't shown any proof of what this entire conversation started over is true. Another right wing propaganda lie by you. Nowhere did you show the government censored anyone. The truth is hard for you isn't it?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Oh boy!!! I feel like I am back with you on my junior high playground. Which is probably appropriate for you given the level of discourse you usually provide on here. My suggestion, if you do not want to be called out for telling a lie…..don’t tell a lie. Pretty simple. Most people on here work it that way. Why don’t you try it!!
I didn’t lie. There were pics. But you do you. You’re about to wake up.
Oober, I apologize for the confusion. My bad. The bill you are referencing is not the same bill I was referring to. HR 2 was sponsored by a Florida rep in the house, Jose Balart. Did you notice that all the cosponsors were R’s. No D’s.
The bill I was speaking of originated in the senate. It was Lankford and a group of dems. That was the horrible bill that died a deserved death.
I read over the HR2 bill , at least a casual read. If there were any horrible parts I missed them.
But oober, I still maintain, and I think we have seen that I am correct, that we did not need legislation to fix the border crisis. We just needed an administration that was serious about doing it.
Good talking with you and hopeful was a little less wordy this time. lol
Did you read the article I posted? The Border portion of the Border Bill was the same that had broad republican support, and it was the republicans that eventually killed it. Not because of anything in the bill, but because Trump didn't want Biden to get the W.
If what you say is true (we don't need an actual law to fix the border crisis, and what Trump is doing is correct), then the problem should've been done with after Trump's first term, right?
Obviously, no. We are still here because EA's won't and can't fix a problem as complex as this one. Unless you want Trump to continue handling the border issue... in which case you'll still need legislation to keep him in power.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
His opinion shows that some people think border laws are decided by the decree of a king and not by the process in which laws are actually written, congress. It seems that little stumbling block to them called the constitution no longer matters to.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Well, I can’t find the original pic I saw of an ice officer standing in front of a latino child in her desk, and I think it may have been misleading because I can find where they tried to go in but were blocked. So if that makes you feel better than your dear leader only said it was ok, then that’s on you.
Now shut up. And if you really want to get in my face challenging the size of my stones, PM me for directions. I’d love you to be a man and show up on my doorstep. Otherwise, keep your trash ass mouth off of me.
Well, I can’t find the original pic I saw of an ice officer standing in front of a latino child in her desk, and I think it may have been misleading because I can find where they tried to go in but were blocked. So if that makes you feel better than your dear leader only said it was ok, then that’s on you.
"Earlier today, Chicago Public School leaders shared that Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents showed up this morning (Friday) at Hamline Elementary School. After our District officials shared public statements, we learned that the agents who visited the school were from the U.S. Secret Service. Our original communication was a result of a misunderstanding, reflective of the fear and concerns in the community amid the new administration's focus on undocumented immigrants. Here's what happened: Two individuals showed up at the school door and presented identification that includes the name Department of Homeland Security, the federal agency that oversees ICE. School officials proceeded to respond to the agents with the understanding that they were from ICE, amid rumors and reports that the agency was in the community. Regardless of which branch of Homeland Security visited this school, officials followed the established protocols to ensure student safety. The agents were not allowed into the school or permitted to speak with staff or students. Hamline administrators also worked with CPS' Law Department and CPS' Office of Safety and Security. The situation was handled with the federal agents leaving the campus without entry. While this was a misunderstanding in terms of the specific branch of DHS, the school's response demonstrates that our system, in partnership with community organizations, is prepared and ready to keep our students and staff safe."
Two individuals showed up at the school door and presented identification that includes the name Department of Homeland Security, the federal agency that oversees ICE.
Yeah, a lie is what you call that?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
So, not a lie... but TBD. Why did SS show up to an elementary school?
Let's refresh on the context here. DHS/ICE decreed that they are allowing themselves to show up to elementary schools and other previously 'protected' areas in order to attempt deportations. And the argument to that was "well, it hasn't happened yet".
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Two individuals showed up at the school door and presented identification that includes the name Department of Homeland Security, the federal agency that oversees ICE.
Yeah, a lie is what you call that?
it's like it's impossible for you to read....
"after our District officials shared public statements, we learned that the agents who visited the school were from the U.S. Secret Service."
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/fkjZc8B/Bull-Dawg-Sig-smaller.jpg)
