DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Ukraine: The Saga Concludes

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crlkypydyn6o

Previous thread was locked, but the debate will continue.

Trump now trying to shake down Ukraine for 50% of its rare earth minerals. If they make a deal with Putin, Trump will send troops to protect minerals interests…

PIT, yes I go over the top, under the wall, any damn thing I please because I have no patience for the idiocy I’m seeing and hearing from the right… none. IMO, we are living in bizarre times bordering dystopian. I never thought

I’d see the day American’s wanted a dictator and cozied up to Putin. Never thought I’d see them try to scrap education, the social safety-net, or arbitrarily attack our closest allies and NATO. This is full on idiocy in my book. And fascist as hell.

And I’m the exact same on any website/social media. The same in private and public. My old ass has called out more than a dozen MAGA idiots for their BS in public. Idgaf. And I don’t care if one takes a swipe or a shot at me. Just be one less MAGA nutjob on the streets.

Trump is saying the quiet part out loud, but using the military to strong arm other countries is pretty much business as usual in US foreign policy. (And most nations with imperialist backgrounds/ties)

I'm not sure it's about economics alone (it's Trump so in part it undoubtedly is about money) but also there are "national defense" implications, or so the spin will go. Tech is power. Raw materials that have no/minimal domestic sources (like specific precious metals/rare earth minerals) are critical to tech production/advancement. Elon probably saw something he thought he needed to make his space lasers, Mars colonizer, or who knows what imagined gizmo he's dreamed up to work.

I'm not saying I agree with it, but it's not something new. Why did you think Russia wants the territory? Trump wanting something because Putin wants something also sounds pathetic enough to just possibly be true. ...what a wonderful world....

I'd suggest it's a lot more than saying the quiet bit out loud. Thats a very false equivalent.

The problem in Ukraine is everybody is dug in. It's a modern version of WWI trench warfare. Wars like that are hard to win and can last a long time. I am glad the President is talking to Putin. President Biden never talked to Putin. Sorry, that isn't being a responsible leader. That's middle school crap.

In chess both sides can get into an unwinnable position. Both sides can continue to chase the other around the board all day long with no winning results. At some point one of the sides has to reach out to negotiate a stalemate.

We are at a point in Ukraine where that negotiation needs to take place. I do think Ukraine owes us something. No doubt we will have to establish some sort of Marshall Plan in Gaza, and now in Ukraine.

This is the part where i dont have a problem with a deal.


Just so everyone is aware, I dont have a problem with the US asking for access to resources in exchange for aid, especially since we hellbent on using other countries rare earth minerals regardless of peace/wartime. For example, if the DRC asked us to help them with the rebels in eastern DRC in exchange to having access to that $14 trillion worth of resources, cool with me.


but if im ukraine, that access to resources comes with NATO membership, period.

My only problem with that is asking for it or demanding it, which ever the case may be is after the fact. If there were going to be a quid pro quo in place that should have been established and agreed upon before and during the time that aid was given. Not going in and making demands for payment after the fact.

I have no problem with a negotiating, but handing the colossal [censored] Putin parts of Ukraine SHOULD NOT BE ON THE TABLE PERIOD. We should prop Ukraine up for as long as they need to be propped up to let Putin feel the pain. We should not cozy up to him or give in or his aggression will never stop. Personally, I think we should put a fleet or two off the coast and send in special forces to stomp a mud hole in Putin’s arse. He won’t launch a nuke, we shouldn’t fear him.

I agree with you guys 100%. Just overall, im not opposed to cutting deals like that. remember, it would've still been a disaster, but less of a disaster had we actually took the oil in iraq for ourselves. didn't even do that.

I agree that we should make deals contingent on our help. But then again we invaded Iraq for no good reason. I'm not so sure we should have stolen their oil too. I could understand us asking Kuwait for oil in return for for The Gulf War however.

Isn't the problem that Trump is talking to Putin directly without input from Ukraine and promising concessions and terms? Telling Europe they dont have a seat at the table.

Trump is being a putin puppet and i dont think EU are going to accept that. Guess we'll see.

But once again hilarious how Trump will browbeat amd bully allies and placate and suck up to Putin.

That may be what Ukraine wants, but I think it is a total non starter. I am sure that Russia won't accept that, and pretty sure that most of the NATO members won't either.

What is the difference between demanding some sort of repayment before you help and sometime later to continue to help? Either way you are flexing your muscle and have them over the same barrel. Give me this if you want my help or give me this if you want my continued help. Seems like six of one, half a dozen of the other to me.

I think it rather naive for Ukraine to think we would simply be an unlimited money pipeline or that NATO was going to risk all out war with Russia by getting directly involved. Conflicts like this can quickly go from regional to large regions, if not global. It's time for calmer heads to prevail.

I don't see it that way at all. I don't think we are only talking to Putin. He is probably talking to him more, but he should. That is where the biggest agreement has to start. Just the reality of the situation is it doesn't matter what Ukraine wants, it matters more about what Russia wants to happen. That is where the negotiation has to start.

If the goal is to humiliate and crush Putin, sorry my friend, that is a fools journey. This isn't anything like Europe in the pre and early stages of WWII. Then, Europe was a collection of small countries with singular goals. Now it is more of a unified group of countries with common goals.

The end game for Putin is to break apart NATO. He’s successfully doing that with Trump. IMO western Europe is not going to back down to them. NATO is on the edge here.

Continuing to help? What help will we be giving after trump sells Ukraine down the river to Russia and the war is over? Do you really think trump and the GOP is going to give Ukraine any more aid? What planet have you been living on?


It's as if you can no longer see the nose on your own face. Under trump there will be no further aid to Ukraine. And you sound just like Neville Chamberlain. "Oooh, we better appease Germany or things might get bad." Only in this case it's Russia. And believe me, Putin has been buttering trump up for a while now. And trump will be giving him pretty much what he wants in return for Putin having stroked his ego. Emboldening Putin is how it would spread to all out war. History has taught us this for anyone who has paid attention.

Trump will only embolden Putin by his actions. And when he does, just remember you supported it.

Thought i read that Zelenski stated he had not been part of any Of these discussions and knew nothing about them.

I see you prefer to cowtow to Putins aggression again... As the world did after Georgia and Crimea. At what point do you suggest we stop letting him have and do what he wants? Or if Trump wants to grow the American Empire with land grabs in Gaza and Greenland is it a case of letting him do what he wants as kong as he leaves us to bully the rotw.?

I suspect Europe will grow a spine and support Ukraine ... I suspect it will cause baby trump to throw his toys out of his pram and over react. Maybe its time for the western world to keep the USA at arms length. One would think allies need to be calm, rationale and consistent instead orlf unpredictable and knee jerk amd prone to bullying its "friends". One more nail in the reputation of the US.

It's not that hard to see and you actually posted it in your own post just it's I don't think you realized it.

Look at trump for just a minute. He thinks he can take things and name things that he has no right to do. Take over Greenland. Take the Panama Canal. Take Gaza. Force Canada to become the 51st state. Rename The Gulf of Mexico that is located in international waters which he has no jurisdiction over to rename anything. The very mind and actions of a dictator.

Putin is doing exactly what trump wants to do and Putin is exactly what trump wants to be. With that in mind is it any wonder that trump sides with Putin?

The only problem that needs to be negotiated in Ukraine is a breathing problem. Putin is still breathing. We have a similar problem at home.

Ukraine should already be in NATO. I blame that on Biden. We should have sent troops in 2 years ago, instead of fearing that asshat’s nukes.

And I hate putting troops in harm’s way, but I’d rather see them fight to save a democracy then to die paving GAZA for a loser lunatic fascist fat ass tangerine tyrant.

I think it's more a tied ("financially strapped" might be more poetic) together group realizing their goals aren't as united as they wished. Just saying.

I agree that Putin would love to see NATO dissolve. So would any of us if we were in his shoes. Thankfully we aren't. Your point is solid.


I disagree with your continued point. I don't think NATO will crack even if the USA pulled away. Europe will remain a unified force. They have to remain that way. The problem is they count on the insurance policy the USA provides. They don't like the idea that their insurance premiums will have to be increased.

Peace talks are on the table. Rubio has said that both Ukraine and Europe will be involved in those talks. It isn't realistic to think that just President Trump and Putin will hammer out a deal and tell everybody else "here it is".

The first step is to get a cease fire much like we have seen in the middle east. If that happens, I think it has a much better chance of holding than does the situation in the middle east. The middle east has many more factions, some crazy, that could spark and reignite the whole deal.

Once a Ukraine cease fire happens then you can try to hammer out a deal that everybody can agree upon. I think everybody understands they aren't going to get everything they want.

After that, I just read a board full of insults and smack talk unworthy of my time. Have a good day.

Only 2, I would think... but that's more than enough.

That's the perfect way to dodge tough questions you have no answer for.

When you say europe and ukraine will be involved... Where n when?

For some balance here's a decent article.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx242lw21jwo


A series of US declarations rocked last week's Munich Security Conference and caused discord among the European politicians in attendance.

Now US and Russian officials are expected to meet in Saudi Arabia next week to begin negotiations on ending the war in Ukraine.

However, Ukraine and European politicians have not been invited to attend, despite insisting they must be involved for any ceasefire to be credible.

Instead, they will meet in Paris on Monday for an emergency summit to discuss the conflict and the continent's security.

Here are five takeaways from Munich.

1. End of an era
Nato, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, was formed in 1949 with the primary aim of blocking expansion in Europe by the former Soviet Union.

Now numbering 32 members, including several Eastern European countries, members agree that if one of them is attacked, the others should help defend it.

But after this week the post-World War Two security architecture for Europe is no more. America is still in Nato but Europe can no longer automatically rely on the US to come to its aid.

In Brussels, US Defence Secretary Pete Hegseth called on Nato's European members to spend much more on defence, saying they would have to provide the "overwhelming" share of military funding for Ukraine.

2. Ukraine policy upended

The US and Russia are going to make a deal to end the war in Ukraine, whether Europe and Ukraine like it or not.

The talks in Saudi Arabia will end a three-year freeze in talking to Vladimir Putin, despite urgent warnings by Kyiv that the Russian leader is not to be trusted.

They follow a phone call between Donald Trump and Putin on Wednesday.

US Secretary of State Marco Rubio will be joined by national security adviser Mike Waltz and the US special envoy to the Middle East, Steve Witkoff, US officials said.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, who has repeatedly said he would not accept any deal struck without his country's input, said Kyiv had not been invited to the talks.

3. Spend more now
Europe, everyone agrees, needs to rapidly raise its defence spending if it has any hope of deterring a newly emboldened Russia.

The current Nato-mandated minimum of 2% of GDP is likely to rise to 3%. Russia currently spends more than twice that on defence in percentage terms.

In January, Trump urged Nato's European members to spend 5% of their national income on defence. Nato Secretary-General Mark Rutte has also urged member states to boost their defence spending.

But Europe as a whole has already overtaken the US in terms of aid to Ukraine. In total, it has allocated €70bn ($73bn; £58bn) in financial and humanitarian aid as well as €62bn in military aid. This compares to €64bn in military aid from the US as well as €50bn in financial and humanitarian allocations.

. That JD Vance speech


0:59
Watch key moments from Vance's speech in Munich
US Vice President JD Vance's blistering attack on Europe's policies on Friday was called "ill-judged" and "insulting" by many of the delegates at the Munich Security Conference.

They had hoped he would reassure them the US was not abandoning Ukraine.

Instead, he spent the majority accusing European governments - including the UK's - of retreating from their values, and ignoring voter concerns on migration and free speech.

The address was met by silence in the hall, and later denounced by several politicians at the conference.

But the speech appealed to others on both sides of the Atlantic and Donald Trump called it "brilliant".

5. Disunity and discord
While the Munich conference was occupied by the geopolitical, Donald Trump announced plans to bring in a 25% tariff on all steel and aluminium imports from March.

It was evidence there are now very obvious rifts between Washington's positions and Europe's on several issues, from trade to dealing with Russia.

It is a divide that the UK is struggling to bridge, with Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer telling reporters both relationships were important and Britain was "not choosing between the US and the EU".

But the Trump team's own messaging is sometimes contradictory, rowing back on grand pronouncements the day after they have been made.

Europes GDP is less than the usa and they have given more aid. To ukraine than the usa. I add that because judging by some comments some people don't seem to believe that eu is doing so.

Listening to the russian federation ambassador at the UN today, it was just like a Memphis meme
.... Everything was Europe's fault
😂😆🤣

Translation; "We invaded Ukraine and it's their fault. They're making friends with NATO."

......until now that is and somehow trump is stopping them.

This is a shot straight at Trump's (IMO) most understandable rhetoric. Other countries not paying their fair share and taking advantage of the US's penchant to spend.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures#Highest_military_expenditure,_share_of_GDP


Wiki has a convenient breakdown of Defense spending. Unfortunately, if you want to easily compare spend as a percentage of GDP, you have to choose between 2023 data or an incomplete dataset. I didn't look deeper because we're assembled outside due to a fire alarm.

IMO, the shocking part is Germany coming in with 1.5%. That's not NATO leadership-type behavior, though this may not yet reflect the spending changes they committed to shortly after Russia invaded Ukraine.

If Putin moves on any other country and Trump doesn’t take action to stop him, he’s definitely a traitor or a wussy.

I don’t know how anybody could still believe in or trust Trump, he’s totally incompetent, inept, and way out of his league dealing with Putin. I mean the guy showed nudes of his wife on state TV for over two months and Trump still kisses his ass.

Why would he do that? He himself wants to do that very thing to Gaza, the Panama Canal and Greenland. He wants to force Canada to become the 51st state. He and his loyal subjects think he can rename the Gulf which is located in international waters which trump has no jurisdiction over. He doesn't want to be president. He wants to build an empire. Why would a wannabe dictator like trump stand in the way of another dictator?

if you listen to the question and the answer that is given, I am becoming wary of Zelenskyy.


https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meet-press-february-16-2025-n1311529


KRISTEN WELKER:


Ukraine is approaching the third anniversary of Russia's invasion into your country. Let me ask you about something that President Trump said this week. He did not say yes when he was asked if he sees Ukraine as an equal member in the peace process. He did say later that Ukraine would have a seat at the table.

"Have you been given any assurances that Ukraine will have an equal seat at the negotiating table?"


PRES. VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY:

"So I will never accept any decisions between the United States and Russia about Ukraine. Never. And our people, never. And our adults, and children, and everybody, it can't be so. The war in Ukraine is against us, and it is our human losses. And we are thankful for all the support, unity between USA – in USA around Ukraine support, bipartisan unity, bipartisan support, we're thankful for all of this. But there is no any leader in the world who can really make a deal with Putin without us about us. Of course, the United States can have a lot of decisions, economical partnership, and et cetera. We're not happy with it, but they can have with Russians. But not about this war without us. And that's why I think that what we need, very closely to work and quicker. I think we lose time now quicker to work on the plan, common plan. So we’re ready because United States is our – the biggest strategic partner. We are ready not only to share our plan. We're ready to put common plan with President Trump. And of course we need support from EU. It's important. They are also big donators during this war. And we will be the members of future European Union. That's why we need the support of Europe. And this common plan, we have to discuss with Russians, and we will. And at the table, it's very important to hear America, Europe, Ukraine and Russia. Yes."


Additiona Followup- Q&A

KRISTEN WELKER:

And do you feel like you have a seat at the table right now?

PRES. VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY:

I not only count on it, I'm sure that we have to be there. Otherwise, it's not acceptable. But if there is a decision without us and Putin will go out from all our land, we will be in NATO, and Putin will be in the prison, so President Trump can’t do it without us.


KRISTEN WELKER:

Let me ask you about your phone call with President Trump earlier this week. It came on the heels of his call with President Putin. Does Mr. Trump's direct communication with Vladimir Putin before speaking to you unnerve you?

PRES. VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY:

No, no. We spoke about it, by the way, with President Trump. And I said that I know that we had already phone calls, yes, both of us, and it's okay that he phoned him. Of course I wanted very much that Ukraine is in priority for Trump, not Russia. And I hope that we are more important, more important. Yes, we are not so big as Russia. But I think strategically Ukraine is more important for the United States because we are really partners, allies, and we share common values, and we are really from democratic worlds.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Do you feel like you have President Trump's full support? Do you feel like he's valuing Ukraine as much as you say he may be Russia?

PRES. VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY:

Well, I became more, more, more pragmatic from the very beginning of this war and less sensitive to such things. And I believe and trust only in real steps. And I trust President Trump because he's the president of the United States, because your people, your people voted for him, and I respect their choice, and I will work the President Trump with trust, which I have to the United States. But of course I want to have real meeting, productive, without just words, with concrete steps, and to hear us, to hear President Trump, to make common plan, and to share it with allies, then with Russians, and stop this war. I think we need it urgently.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Is it true that you told President Trump during that phone call that Putin is only pretending to want peace because he is afraid of Mr. Trump?

PRES. VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY:

Yes. Yes, I said that he is a liar. And he said, "I think my feeling is that he's ready for these negotiations." And I said to him, "No, he's a liar. He doesn't want any peace." But I think he's really a little bit scared about the President Trump. And I think the president has this chance, and he's strong. And I think that really he can push Putin to peace negotiations. Yes, I think so. I think he can, but don't trust him. Don't trust Putin. Don't trust just words about ceasefire. I said because I have very practical things, practical meeting with Putin in 2019, and we made a decision with all our signatures. Then we made a decision about ceasefire and exchange of prisoners. Yes. And he – I don't know how to [SPEAKS UKRAINIAN]. He destroyed all these decisions and et cetera. So we don't trust him.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Do you think President Trump is negotiating in good faith?

PRES. VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY:

I hope so. I hope so. Yes, I count on it. I count on it very much.

There are many that feel Putin should be rewarded for his invasion of Ukraine. trump has already made concessions to Putin before even sitting down at the bargaining table. It only makes sense that people such as yourself would be more wary of what Zelenskyy is saying rather than being wary of what trump is doing.

What Putin did by invading Ukraine and the mass murder of its citizens is a war crime. It's sad that someone saying that out loud bothers you. trump is bargaining with Putin without Ukraine or any other NATO country having a seat at the bargaining table. Try to let that sink in for just a minute.

Read the words from the interview before making triggered comments that you repeat from others who are taking the interview out of context. Those people you are microphoning are making this a PR stunt to advance their political agenda.


The reality:

1. Putin fears Trump and everyone knows it.
- Zelenskyy said in the interview: "But I think he's really a little bit scared about the President Trump. And I think the president has this chance, and he's strong. And I think that really he can push Putin to peace negotiations."
2. Trump hasn't made any concessions yet. They are going to start negotiating and (hopefully) get things settled in the next few months.
3. The negotiations need to end favoring Ukraine in every way imaginable.
4. Ideally, it needs to end with Putin being convicted of war crimes and thrown in jail for the rest of his life.
- *I would prefer he is tortured, disemboweled, and executed (without any drugs) live on every TV channel in the world. (not going to happen)
- We need to be cautious about how we go about convicting him. Putin can push a few buttons and the nukes will start flying. Especially, if he knows he is going to jail for the rest of his life.

Trump offers key concessions to Putin ahead of Ukraine peace talks in Saudi Arabia
Stephen Collinson
Analysis by Stephen Collinson, CNN
8 minute read
Updated 5:44 AM EST, Mon February 17, 2025




CNN
—
Vladimir Putin is riding high ahead of critical US-Russia talks Tuesday in Saudi Arabia on ending the Ukraine war.

Donald Trump’s administration has ended the Russian president’s international isolation, shattered Western unity on the conflict and cast doubt on how far the US would go to defend Europe, signaling a stunning shift toward Putin and away from America’s traditional allies.

With a flurry of conflicting statements in their first forays into Europe, Trump aides also fueled concerns that the US president will embrace just about any deal with Putin — even if it’s a bad one for Ukraine and a continent whose borders are again threatened by Russian expansionism.



Suggestions that the US will exclude its European friends from peace talks on Ukraine — despite demanding they provide security guarantees and troops as part of any deal to end the war — also triggered alarm in capitals on the continent, with France calling key leaders to an emergency meeting in Paris on Monday.

The US Embassy with a US national flag is seen behind a building with a Russian national flag in Moscow on November 5, 2024.
Related article
Saudi Arabia to host US-Russia talks on Ukraine, as UK says it’s ‘ready and willing’ to put troops on ground

Trump has also sparked fears that Ukraine itself would not be part of talks that are critical to its survival as a nation after its sovereign territory was invaded by a totalitarian neighbor bringing war crimes, civilian carnage and destruction on its people.

The president on Sunday raised the prospect of a meeting with Putin “very soon.” He told reporters in Florida: “We’re moving along. We’re trying to get a peace with Russia, Ukraine, and we’re working very hard on it.”

After Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky warned on NBC’s “Meet the Press” that he would “never accept any decisions between the United States and Russia about Ukraine,” Trump gave a vague assurance that he would be “involved.”

Rubio says the Saudi talks are a first step
Secretary of State Marco Rubio, national security adviser Mike Waltz and Middle East envoy Steve Witkoff will head the US delegation for talks hosted by the Saudis, who are friendly with both Moscow and the Trump team.

Rubio styled the meeting as a follow-up to Trump’s phone call last week with Putin. “The next few weeks and days will determine whether it’s serious or not,” he said on CBS’ “Face the Nation” on Sunday. “Ultimately, one phone call does not make peace. One phone call does not solve a war as complex as this one.”

Rubio also contradicted comments by Trump’s Ukraine envoy, Keith Kellogg, who said Saturday that while Kyiv would be involved in peace talks, European nations wouldn’t. “If it’s real negotiations — and we’re not there yet — but if that were to happen, Ukraine will have to be involved, because they’re the one that were invaded, and the Europeans will have to be involved because they have sanctions on Putin and Russia as well, and they’ve contributed to this effort,” Rubio said.

The evolving US line on the proposed peace deal shows that it’s often unwise to overreact to the early rhetoric of Trump and his subordinates before the substance of their positions is locked in. Without the new US president’s determination to forge ties with Putin, there’d be little hope of ending a vicious war in the coming months. And there still appears to be substantial room for Ukraine and European states to shape negotiations that can be fully successful only with their buy-in.

People visit a makeshift memorial for fallen Ukrainian soldiers during Russia's war on Ukraine at Independence Square in Kyiv in February 2025.
analysis
An isolated Europe worries the US will negotiate on Ukraine badly without it

Polish Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski said in Munich over the weekend that he thought Trump’s call with Putin was a mistake since it “vindicated” the Russian leader and lowered morale in Ukraine. But he added: “When President Trump says as part of a deal there will have to be European troops, we will have to be asked to supply them, so sooner or later we will have to be involved.”

Still, mixed messages from the administration will fuel concerns that Trump will agree to a deal with Putin that validates the illegal invasion and will then impose it on Ukraine. While most foreign policy realists accept that Ukraine will not get back all the land seized by Russia, Trump was criticized for throwing away leverage with his call with the Russian leader. As was Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, who said that a peace deal would not include a path to NATO membership for Ukraine and that no US peacekeeping troops would be involved. Some of those statements were later watered down by Hegseth and other administration officials.

Concerns were exacerbated by Trump’s warp-speed attempt last week to fully rehabilitate Putin, an accused war criminal, when he promoted Russia’s foreign policy positions rather than the West’s. The president, for instance, seemed to sympathize with Putin’s rationales for the invasion and called for his return to the G8 grouping of industrialized nations after Russia was kicked out over the annexation of Crimea in 2014. Trump’s rejection of the previous administration’s lockstep coordination with Europe over Ukraine and the absence of Kyiv’s negotiators from the Saudi talks also appeared to seriously weaken the Western negotiating position. European officials are likely to be far more sympathetic to Ukraine’s views than Trump — and so if they are absent from any full-scale negotiations, Zelensky’s position could be severely diminished.

A searing attack on European democracy by Vice President JD Vance at the Munich Security conference — and his decision to meet the leader of the far-right anti-immigrant AfD party just days before the German election — meanwhile shook European leaders. The speech was a clear sign the Trump administration intends to promote many of the populist movements that are evoking dark echoes on a continent twice destroyed by war in the 20th century. And Hegseth’s blunt warning in Brussels last week that Europeans needed to “take ownership of conventional security on the continent” was widely seen as a sign of Trump’s antipathy for NATO and its security umbrella.

All of this is music to Putin’s ears, since it suggests that his status as an international pariah is over, and that he has a deal within reach over Ukraine that would cement his territorial gains. The divisions Trump has opened inside NATO is delivering on one of Russia’s most important foreign policy goals.

“It’s indeed like Easter, Hanukkah, Christmas, (the) birthday of Vladimir Putin and everything is happening in one day,” Alexander Gabuev, director of the Carnegie Russia Eurasia Center, told CNN’s Bianna Golodryga on Sunday. “Whatever Champagne is not chilled is brought to the fridge and other bottles are uncorked.”

France calls emergency meeting
The crisis in transatlantic relations prompted French President Emmanuel Macron to call an informal meeting Monday with the leaders of Germany, Britain, Italy, Poland, Spain, the Netherlands and Denmark, as well as the heads of the European Council, the European Commission and NATO’s secretary general.

While Trump’s hostility to 80 years of post-World War II security policy is a stunning shift in US policy and a sign of his antipathy to internationalist goals, Europe has left itself vulnerable to more isolationist currents in US policy that have long been part of America’s DNA.

Years of strangled defense budgets have left most non-US NATO members poorly prepared for the task of defending Europe and the dominant role the Trump administration is now demanding. Swift increases in defense spending will mean painful choices for leaders who are already struggling to finance welfare states and are hampered by low-growth economies.


European leaders to hold emergency summit on Ukraine as Trump peace push leaves them isolated

But there are already some indications that the Trump administration’s hardline position is concentrating minds as leaders seek to impress the president. British Prime Minister Keir Starmer, who plans to meet with Trump in the coming days, said he’s willing to send British troops to Ukraine as part of any peace deal. Writing in Monday’s Daily Telegraph, Starmer also said European nations “must increase our defense spending and take on a greater role in NATO” — but added that US support would remain critical for guaranteeing peace.

The talks in Saudi Arabia will also highlight another evolving theme in international relations — the growing clout of the kingdom — evidenced by both its growing role under Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman in Middle East affairs but also by its soft-power initiatives like investments in European sports leagues and its hosting of the 2034 FIFA World Cup.

Trump has made no secret of his admiration for strongmen leaders, and the prince and Putin have a tight relationship. A source close to the Saudi court told CNN’s Alex Marquardt that hosting the talks would enhance the Saudis’ image and prestige and show them to be players on one of the top issues of the day.

Saudi Arabia will be vital to another of Trump’s foreign policy goals — ending the war in Gaza. The administration is trying to coax the Saudis and the Israelis toward a diplomatic normalization agreement that could reshape the geopolitics of the Middle East and solidify an Arab front against Iran. But such a deal would be politically impossible for the Saudis without a path to a state for the Palestinians. And Arab states have pushed back hard against Trump’s extraordinary plan to relocate Palestinians en masse out of Gaza in what would amount to a form of ethnic cleansing.

Trump’s fantastical plan for the US to “own” and redevelop Gaza, as well as his apparent desire to enter talks with Putin on Ukraine, underscore the risks of his unorthodox approach to foreign relations. But the president is back in the White House at a unique moment that offers opportunities to pursue agreements that could make America and the world safer — that is, unless he inks deals that ignore grave security implications.

Sikorski warned in Munich that the president was playing for huge stakes.

“The credibility of the United States depends on how this war (in Ukraine) ends — not just the Trump administration, but the United States itself.”

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/17/politics/trump-putin-concessions-ukraine-analysis/index.html

There's no reality where Putin fears Trump. That SHOULD be the reality, but unfortunately Trump has demonstrated in his first and second term, he is submissive to Putin.

there is no situation in which Putin fears Trump where the US is the one offering major concessions to Russia, despite them being the aggressor.

No where ever in time does Putin fear trump-.

and trump is already working on the concessions for Ukraine-and maybe he will let them know about it after Russia approves them.

This is an opinion piece...

How to know it is an opinion piece? keywords in the piece include: "fueled concerns", "Suggestions", "sparked fears", "fuel concerns" "fuel concerns that Trump will agree to a deal with Putin " "Concerns were exacerbated"


Ironically, it does say "The president on Sunday raised the prospect of a meeting with Putin “very soon.”

It does say "Trump gave a vague assurance that he would be “involved.”

It does say "Steve Witkoff will head the US delegation for talks hosted by the Saudis, who are friendly with both Moscow and the Trump team."

It does say "“The next few weeks and days will determine whether it’s serious or not,” “Ultimately, one phone call does not make peace. One phone call does not solve a war as complex as this one.”

It does say "we’re not there yet — but if that were to happen, Ukraine will have to be involved, because they’re the one that were invaded, and the Europeans will have to be involved because they have sanctions on Putin and Russia as well, and they’ve contributed to this effort,” Rubio said."

It does say "The evolving US line on the proposed peace deal shows that it’s often unwise to overreact to the early rhetoric of Trump and his subordinates before the substance of their positions is locked in. "

It does say "And there still appears to be substantial room for Ukraine and European states to shape negotiations that can be fully successful only with their buy-in."

It does say "source close to the Saudi court told CNN’s Alex Marquardt that hosting the talks would enhance the Saudis’ image and prestige and show them to be players on one of the top issues of the day."

it does say "Saudi Arabia will be vital to another of Trump’s foreign policy goals — ending the war in Gaza."

It does say "Trump’s fantastical plan for the US to “own” and redevelop Gaza, as well as his apparent desire to enter talks with Putin on Ukraine, underscore the risks of his unorthodox approach to foreign relations. But the president is back in the White House at a unique moment that offers opportunities to pursue agreements that could make America and the world safer "

It does say "Years of strangled defense budgets have left most non-US NATO members poorly prepared for the task of defending Europe and the dominant role the Trump administration is now demanding. "

It does say "Swift increases in defense spending will mean painful choices for leaders who are already struggling to finance welfare states and are hampered by low-growth economies."

It does say" British Prime Minister Keir Starmer, who plans to meet with Trump in the coming days, said he’s willing to send British troops to Ukraine as part of any peace deal. Writing in Monday’s Daily Telegraph, Starmer also said European nations “must increase our defense spending and take on a greater role in NATO” — but added that US support would remain critical for guaranteeing peace."

It also says that Trump offered key concessions to Putin... because he did.


I'm not sure how getting what he wants would make Putin fearful.