DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Myles Garrett Requests Trade

So starting off any reply to a poster with a sentance and rolling eyes emoji is a great way to not make things personal. Well done.

If you want to only discuss the smallest portion and shortest sentance of my original post - so be it. The talent on the roster is about the entire 53 man roster. It's not just about the starters. Even if we do look at the starters and the talent there - We've got positions where the starting talent was probably going to struggle to see 12 games based on recent history and age while playing for this team. And once again - the depth behind the starters is chronically bad. That's not revisionist in any way - to my eyes it is a statement of fact.

You can disagree by simply telling us what you think about the roster and depth and Walker and DTR being the backups ..... Or you can disagree and try to pull apart small parts of my post, roll your eyes, and talk about logic and revisionist history. Those two responses are very different.

This’s not related specifically to your post but there’s a huge difference between signing “a quarterback” or go for the best available talent.
A bridge QB sounds good in theory but what happens if he;

a) partly succeed similar to Joe Flacco’s?
b) fail? Then it’s hast la vista for the smartest guys in the room.

Either the Browns FO trust their own ability to draft our future FQB or face the consequences. (me personally have zero trust in Berry and Stefanski so if they’re in charge my expectations are zero to nada)

We should take young talents stats in college with a grain of salt. So much can happen between early twenties to being fully developed.
Look at size, foot work, acceleration, pocket awareness, accuracy, arm strength, ability to correctly process information.
The most important factors from my perspective is a) stable mentality b) competitiveness c) work ethic and hunger.

I know many of you are way more educated than me in this but anyway.
This’s my message to Berry & Co if they’re still trusted.

Go all in or go home!

History tells us that we don't have to wait for the games to be played if AB is running the show. You know that saying about falling into a bucket of crap and coming out with a new hat? He is the exact opposite of that. Berry fell into a situation where we were on the cusp of something great and took us to 3-14. That is an epic failure for a gm.

The only problem with looking ahead to 2026 draft is can you tell me where we will be drafting in the draft order? What if the Browns go 6-11? 7-10 or 8-9? I'm in no way trying to advocate the Browns select a QB with the #2 pick in the 2025 draft. I'm simply saying they might be looking at the 2nd best QB in next years draft or the second best QB in this years draft. Next year is a complete unknown.

Ideally, yes... but then who do you send out there week 1? DTR? One of the rookies coming out (that we'll probably have to overdraft)? Yuck (IMO).

If we go back to a KS-offense, our offense will go back to being run-based and work off PA. Going and getting a "Flacco" to do this is doable (we've seen it before).

I agree AB has made some good moves and some bad. Right now, I'd give him a 5-6 out of 10 for an overall grade. As far as our draft position in 2026 who knows? However, it's hard to imagine us not being one of the 5 worst teams in the league next season. Too many variables at this point. Time will tell.

Half joking half serious. Do you get a financial kickback from Berry whenever you defend him?

His record is worse than bad. From a scale from 1-10 he’s a minus 5.

Going from losing marginally against the Chief in the playoffs to last seasons record takes something extra out of normal. Even if I tried to do my worst I and thousands of other supporters would probably do better than what he did, and I’m 100% serious in this statement.

He deserves a medal for pulling this off and still has a well paid job.

Whatever you receive you’re definitely worth it. Hats off for hanging in there.

What did the Browns do between 2021 -2024. Just used half of our resources?

Not your fault but after decades in management I’m allergic to corporate BS.

If AB had those 3 1st round picks we sent to Houston, he would be judged in a different light as long as they were productive players for us.

True. I still think Haslam has the final word on QB. Baker was his golden boy until he wasn’t. So any drafted QB this year would probably be another Haslam choice.

You’re 100% right but as a GM he also was part of the leadership that sent these 3 picks away to Houston.
Should we judge him like this little decision didn't happened?
Should we absolve him from the Watson fiasco?

Our next couple of months will decide this organizations future for the next 2-3 seasons.
The Browns FO have almost no credit left in the bank.
Andrew Berry’s near future hang on his next two three major decisions.

Statistically the odds are against us so we all have to hope that lightning strikes three times in the same place within a few weeks.

At the risk of sounding like I'm splitting hairs, I think the context of the conversation is important here.

Are we judging AB's drafting ability? If so, then holding the Watson trade against him is unfair, IMO. He lost out on 3 years of 1st rounders, and consequently has struggled to land many impact players via draft. He then made additional trades to bring in WR talent (which has also been a mixed bag).

Are we judging AB's ability to build the roster? Then yes, you hold the Watson trade against him. It was an all-in move to land THE qb... cost be damned.


I only say this because (again, IMO) looking at the past few years and saying you don't trust AB to do the right thing with #2 doesn't make a ton of sense. Saying it's Berry's fault we are in the spot we are in is MUCH more valid.

Come on man. If one looks at it objectively as you suggest, that one decision put a monkey wrench on three drafts. You're trying to compare that to single trades or signings that had nowhere near that impact and trying to present that as some kind of equal comparison. It's not.

The guy at the casino playing the nickel slots who won 100 bucks isn't the same as guy who just lost 100k on a single roll at the craps table.

If I had made better choices as a youth,then maybe,quite possibly,there's a good chance,odds are good that I would be highly respected.

At the time of the Deshawn Watson trade happened everyone saw Watson as an upgrade on the field vs Baker Mayfield. It was obvious the Browns did not want to extend Baker. They saw his limitations and that he would never get to Lamar Jackson level and was seeing the Bengals and Joe Burrow surpassing the Browns due to the QB position. They saw Watson as their chance to stay relevant in the AFC North.

The mistake was seeing Watson as the player he was for the Texans before the off-field issues and giving him a full guaranteed contract. They did put all eggs in 1 basket and that was a mistake. I do think Watson's shoulder injury from last year was far worse than the Browns expected. Watson was coming on in 2023 with strong performances vs the Bengals, Titans, Cardinals, and Ravens last year. He was throwing the ball down field in 2023, and we did not see him being willing to throw down field in 2024.

Stefanski's biggest mistake was changing the offense in 2024 and changing the O Line blocking scheme. That decision made a very good O Line look really bad. I think going back to the zone blocking scheme will greatly improve the O Line next season.

I think Berry and Stefanski have earned a chance to have a bounce back season next year. Many fans want them to come out publicly and say we missed up and should have never got rid of Baker and signed Watson. Face it that will never happen. Just move forward and put together the best possible team on the field.

Stefanksi's job isn't making personnel decisions or deciding to go back and offer a player that doesn't want to be here a kings ransom to come here anyway. He doesn't make the decision to give up three first round draft picks in a trade for a player either.

Should the 49ers fire everybody for the Trey Lance trade? It was one move that didn't work out.

It was obviously a big mistake, but it was just one piece of a bigger body of work.

Personally, I think fans put too much focus on outcome, and not enough on process. Yes, the "big decisions" are the easiest to point at, but it is the everyday stuff that ultimately is the most controllable. Unfortunately, not everything is controllable or predictable. Nobody has all the information, you do the best you can with what you have.

Fortunately, lightning strikes aren't entirely random. Hopefully the team can hoist their lightning rod in the right spot come the draft. Hopefully, they can also avoid the injury lightning afterwards.

It sucks, but lightning isn't controllable.

Honestly, I'm not a big fan of the lightning analogy. I'm also not sure what odds you are imagining. Plus, odds are generalities and have no bearing on specific incidences.

Blah,blah,blah - what is the purpose of drafting the 2nd or 3rd best if you can get the best - or projected best. The o-line has to be rebuilt. How many years have the Browns drafted QB's only to throw them behind a crappy line and watch them fail. If the Browns trade Garrett, who's going to replace him? This is just a scenario I hope Berry is seriously considering. 1) Trade Newsome pre-June 1 and recover his $13,377,000 cap for draft picks. 2) Trade Garrett pre-June 1 for draft picks and maybe a player. Must get a 1st this year, a first next year, and 2nd and 3rd round picks for next year. 3) Trade Ward post-June 1 for a 1st next year, a 3rd next year and a 2nd in 2027. 4) Get out of the cap hell ($30,168,764) by restructuring Watson again. The Browns have insurance for 2024 and 2025 only consisting of $51M so use it now. This would get the Browns league compliant, money for FA, base of extra draft picks for 2025 and 2026 and a plan to revamp the team. There are numerous other players to move post-June 1 so as to build more cap space and additional draft picks for 2026 & 2027.

I would start with base starting OL for 2025 as Jones @ RT, Zinter @ LG, and Wypler @ C. That means acquiring a starting LT and RG via the draft or free agency. If Berry does this in 2025, it gives them 2 years together to jell into a young, unified unit. If the Browns don't draft a QB until 2026 (where they would have 3 first round picks to deal if needed), the o-line would have 1 year experience working together and the ability to make adjustments if needed. That means of course that the Browns part ways with Conklin, Pocic, Teller, Njoku, and Bitonio. Though these guys may have a year or two left on their contracts and/or ability (?), there is no way that they fit or should be a part of the 3-5 year plan. Their cap savings and draft pick acquisition would only enhance the Browns future. Delaying the inevitable would be the stupidest thing Berry could do.

Berry should then draft Abdul Carter, EDGE, Penn State with the number 2 pick this year to replace Garrett. The remaining picks this year and next are used to fill the open positions with BPA at the draft slot. Whether the Browns take a QB this year or next, he has to be a day 1 starter. Naturally, the Browns would have a better opportunity to get a better QB in 2026 with 3 first round picks but this is a Berry can't miss selection. Drafting a QB this year without addressing the o-line is a plan to fail. It will delay the rebuild years and stunt the growth of the young QB.

Berry needs to go all in to rebuild this team in 2025. The longer he waits, the longer the team remains uncompetitive.

Personally, I could give a crap about AB and KS future.

I would agree that the evaluation of the quarterbacks is critical whether this year or next for the draft.

This has to be a 2-3 year plan to get the QB, get out from under these prorated contracts, and build a winner.

Fans may believe the QB has to be front and center but unless they start rebuilding the o-line TODAY, it won't matter who they draft at QB.

The Browns fans and the Browns organization have never showed the patience in the last 2 decades to let a young rookie QB grow. Putting a young new QB behind a line that is aging, losing performance, and having 2 or less years on a contract that WILL NOT be renewed is young QB suicide.

If Haslam is focused on having a competitive team before he moves into the new house, he better authorize the total rebuild now and that has to start with the o-line. Waiting is just delaying the inevitable and will set the team back years in the rebuild not to mention QB growth.

AB & Stefanski (though I don't believe they're the guys) can explain a lost 2025 for a major improvement in 2026. Waiting to address the o-line in and after 2026 will delay and stunt that growth. JMHO

We are 5 years into his reign. We are 3-14 with the worst qb room in the league. Our best player is demanding a trade because he sees no hope for winning in the foreseeable future. AB's best free agent picks are no longer on the team. I can't understand why anyone would defend him or want him to manage this upcoming draft.

I disagree with the theory of blowing this up. If getting top picks were a formula for success, then the Browns should be a dynasty like the Pats and Chiefs. Mahomes was not a top 5 pick. Jalen Hurts was not a top 5 pick, Josh Allen was not a top 5 pick, Lamar Jackson is not a top 5 pick. Winning builds a culture of winning and losing builds a culture of winning. This team needs to do whatever it can to win as many games as possible. Let the chips fall where they fall and take best player available at the picks you earn. If a team wants to trade for a Browns player, then they need to be ready to pay for that player.

Because we've seen a lot of bad QBs and there's as good a chance of Haslam picking a GM that picks Manziel or Weeden or Brady Quinn in the first round or tells us to Trust him on Kizer/Kessler, etc as someone who picks a good QB.

Watson had been a good QB in the NFL. It wasn't a talent or tape issue. He had both. He definitely has failed spectacularly here, but it was more an "only with the Browns issue"/"everything that could go wrong did" than a "talent evaluation" issue.

What makes you believe Haslam would pick a better GM instead of a worse one?

I want Haslam involved in picking people as little as possible.

I have more faith in Berry's drafting than I do in Haslam's picking a top decision maker.

I've seen a lot worse than Berry and Stefanski, and I think they can continue to improve, and seem to have the right mindsets and processes to do so.

Since the return, players have changed, GMs have changed, Coaches have changed, the owner has changed. The one thing that hasn't changed is a bunch of fans and the media constantly clamoring to blow things up.

I think these guys could work if we let them. Every team has things that don't go their way. We've had a lot recently. Berry's rolled with the punches pretty well. Making the playoffs the Flacco year was insane. They controlled what they could control and found a way. Unfortunately, punches over a season have a cumulative effect. Fortunately, each season is its own entity. I choose to hope we can find our Jayden Daniels/Bo Nix/Matthew Stafford (doesn't necessarily have to be in the draft) and have some things bounce our way.

Will it? Probably not. Been a Browns fan long enough to not expect it. Just seen enough changes fail spectacularly to not expect that to magically work either. Conceptually the setup we have makes sense to me. Dorsey-Hue dysfunction I don't want to risk.

Sadly, we've seen the massive effect one wrong decision that made a fair bit of sense at the time can have.

I worry that letting these two go could prove one of those wrong decisions that have unanticipated negative consequences.

A freak gust of wind turning a home run into a fly out at the warning track doesn't make the swing bad.

Yes, we must forget about one of, if not the worst trade deals in NFL history and how it impacted this team for years. I mean I haven't seen anything this bad since Ditka gave up an entire draft for Ricky Williams. But just put that aside?

Because you know, some of those low impact trades and picks worked out. Some of them.

When you look at someone's body of work you don't simply discard the worst decision we've seen by a man in his positions for decades. Well, maybe you do but that's not how an evaluation of someone's job performance actually works.

Yeah, let's wait until next year when we may be drafting between 12-15 and hope for the best. Speaking of blah, blah, blah.....

These are the facts of the matter that many seem to be rationalizing away with excuses and "yeah buts". They seem to think that the NFL doesn't stand for "Not For Long" if you can't produce a winner with some stability. AB has not. All the BS and making excuses calls for nothing but hip waders to keep from getting it on you.

So Denver should have gotten rid of Paton for the Russell Wilson trade and not had him there to draft Bo Nix? (Look back at what Denver traded for Russ)

While you can't discard the trade, fixating on it probably isn't the right call, either.

Show me a GM whose worst move you like.

What what was Denver's record last season? Are you telling me you have confidence that AB will draft a franchise QB based on his record? Are you really trying to compare Berry's over all performance to theirs.

Payton has been there 2 years. AB has been here for 5. So how many years do you think a GM deserves in this league when after 5 seasons he has the worst QB room in the league and his best player is so fed up he wants to leave? 7 years? 10 years? At some point the bill comes due. Why do you keep trying to make excuses for a putrid GM? And before you dig that hole too deep, remember how this worked out for you the last time.

The reason there is no answer to your comparison question is there is no other GM in the NFL that is going into year 6 with a 3-14 record who made one of the worst trades in NFL history. They were already fired before then.

You can't do much worse than 3-14 after 5yrs. You can't ignore failure of this magnitude out of fear it could be worse.



Contnue to improve? You're kidding, right? When Berry came here we were on the verge of being a perennial playoff contender. We're now 3-14. Is that not sinking in?

We gave AB 5 years. How much more shall we give him? Are you one of the guys that wanted to give Hue more time after going 1-31?



Compared to the consequences of keeping Berry (3-14, worst qb room in the league, his best player wanting out and a horrible cap situation), it's a no brainer.

How many injuries did Denver have on offense? This doesn't show any. link Which teams had the most injuries on offense? Us, Jags, and 49ers. Go figure, those teams seasons didn't go well.

I don't have confidence in anyone drafting a franchise QB this draft class, but AB probably has a better chance to do it for us than anybody else as I doubt anyone else knows as much about the rest of this team.

No, I wasn't comparing overall performance, I was comparing the one big negative that many are being myopic on. Unfortunately, that one had a big impact on the overall performance. I was showing that hitting on a single player can change perspectives quite quickly.

I was talking George Paton rather than Sean Payton. I'm not sure if spell check got you or you didn't know who the Broncos' GM was. Yes, they saw that the QB room wasn't good enough and tried to fix it. When the QB room is that way, you're in a tough spot. When you're also looking at the worst QB draft in the past decade, you take a swing at what looks the best of no great options. In hindsight, keeping Baker looks like the better idea. Unfortunately, Baker was on the lowest point of his rollercoaster career, wanted to be paid for the highest, and burnt some bridges on his end. It was a bad time to be looking for a QB.

AJ Brown wanted out of Philly for awhile. They worked things out and won a Super Bowl. Howie Roseman drafted Danny Watkins in the first round. Drafted Dillard at tackle early, but got lucky with a former Aussie rules football project paying off. He drafted Jalen Reagor over Justin Jefferson.

How do you grade a GM when so many of the players are hurt and don't play? Injuries suck. Holding them against the GM isn't for me.

I'll have to dig into the history, but I'm guessing your made up assertion is just that. You could be right, but all of history is a long time, and the quick hook wasn't as common in the past.

This is the year to get Myles replacement at #2. Keep Myles until 26 or 27 when we take a decent qb. I can’t support trading him before then because it would be as dumb as the DW trade. If Myles continues the LeBron path and holds out… fine him and let him sit at home.