DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk 2025 NFL Draft Draft

I'm not sure what you guys have discussed but it seems to me:

Trade Miles to the Vikings for JJ McCarthy and two additional firsts.

Then, you play the Jets and Raiders against themselves for a trade down

If the Titans do not pick up Sanders then we should be able to get a great haul:
Flip, and at least a first next year with a second this year or next.

We take Mason Graham with our pick. We also get the Vikings first.

We come away with two elite players, 3 additional #1's, and another 2nd rounder over the next year and a half.

It seems outrageous but, it doesn't sound unreasonable.

Plus... we possibly solve the quarterback problem.

Zappe is just fine as some back-up. In your senario, I think Cousins would be the starter, at least to start, but then again JJ might lack on field experience, but he isn't a rookie anymore.

A big part for rookies is just the NFL experience itself. JJ now has a year of seeing how all of that works. That is a lot to take in, especially for a QB. Other positions you can work in to full time work. QB's it is you are playing, or you aren't. QB's don't usually get in to some sort of rotation.

Ward would get destroyed if he came to Cleveland. He lacks discipline. He needs to go somewhere like Pittsburgh, Baltimore, or the Rams.

I agree on chasing J.J...the trade hype is fun for the NFL rumor mill.

1) Highly doubt the Vikings move on from a 21 year old QB on a rookie deal and put all their eggs in the Darnold basket who is having one outlier year. This would be shortsighted. Vikings more likely to re-sign Darnold, let him play next year, and if his play was not a flash in the pan, then the Vikings may seriously consider trading McCarthy in 2026.

2) The Vikings only trade JJ this offseason if they find a team so utterly desperate for a QB they're willing to urinate away massive draft capital for the fifth QB taken in the draft last year, is coming off of two knee surgeries and has never played a down in the NFL. I think the Browns learned a hard lesson in selling off their future draft capital for the unknown, at least I hope so.

Sounds good, but sound like a lot to me.

I think Jimmy Watkins is about the only Browns reporter worth reading at the PD. I happen to agree with him here. We’re simply not in any position to rebound quickly, plain and simple. Whether we like it or not, at least a partial rebuild will have to happen and that will probably mean looking for a Myles Garrett suitor for future picks. So maybe we’re looking for a DE at the top of the draft? The “wise” move in my book is to forgo QB early this year & look around for what’s available. Build the lines & running game and bolster draft stock for when we exit from under the Watson albatross in ‘27.

Link

It sounds like a lot until you picture it from the Vikings war room.

You give up a rookie QB, coming off a significant injury. Tested only in one pre-season
You give up three draft picks in the 23-30 range (they are practically 2nd round picks)

You end up with the best defensive player on the planet. Total game changer.
Your Super Bowl window doesn't open, it is blown out of the framing.
Everything changes for them. It is a once in a lifetime opportunity
Strike while the iron's hot. You snooze you lose.

I think it ends up becoming cheap for the Vikings. Unless those late picks become All Pros.

Maybe you guys underestimate Myles?

Then,

If the Jets and Raiders lose, Graham will be available with their pick

We should be able to pull an additional first next year and possibly an additional 2nd. That will make
3 firsts and two seconds. While we got potential elites with McCarthy and Mason this year. And a number 28 or so and
number 33.

Just think about it.

If Berry takes less, he will have been worked.
(Plain and simple)

Your living in a pipe dream.

Minnesota already has 2 of the top 8 NFL sack leaders at DE in Van Ginkel and Greenard with 11 1/2 and 11 sacks respectively before tonight's game so they have no big need for Garrett, add to fact that there is no way anyone is going to give up 3 first round picks plus 2 second round picks for Garrett, we'd be lucky to get anything more than 2 firsts. Also Minnesota traded a 4th and 5th rnd pick just to move up from 1 spot in the 1st round to secure McCarthy because they saw him as a potential franchise QB so why would they turn around and trade him just because journeyman Darnold had a career year, add into the fact that Darnold is a free agent after the season.

One thing that I would add to your list (which I think is really good) would be that he has played in areas around the lakes. He has experience playing at a high level in real weather.

My experience with the Browns dates back to Otto Graham, and everyone since. Being able to play quarterback in bone chilling weather is a special trait.

We were very fortunate with Brian Sipe, Bernie is from around the corner, but other than them this had been an issue that needs to be looked at (considered) IMHO.

You're saying that Myles Garrett is worth no more than Khalil Mack, the offer the Rams made for Brian Burns that wasn't accepted, etc....

OK

You're right, they do have a free agent pick up that they got a good year out of.

If we can't get anything more than what you've laid out for Myles Garrett then you never trade him.

My hope is that Berry would never even extend the conversation if Minnesota offered two very late first round picks for Myles. That sounds like a Modell firing Paul Brown kind of thing

I guess I just see Myles differently.

I also agree that Minnesota probably won't let McCarthy go. We don't know what they're thinking but they don't have to let him go. Somebody that can put a Super Bowl trophy in their cabinet is probably the only way they should consider it.

...Or you just build a dome and make it irrelevant.

Sadly, I think we all saw the "real" Sam Darnold last night in Detroit - as did the Vikings. I doubt they will be willing to trade JJ now...

I want no part of Sam Darnold. I think the risk of this season being a flash in the pan is too high for what it will probably take to sign him. Cousins would be a much safer, if less exciting, option.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but there's no guarantee that either will be available. The Vikings don't have to part with either QB, and Cousins is already a sunk cost in Atlanta so there's not much benefit to them to dump him.

j/c

I've seen a lot of people say Cam Ward should be the pick - my question: does he fit KS system for a QB? KS seems to prefer a pocket passer, good with PA/boots

JJ is a nice idea but the more I think about it the more I believe the Vikings will keep him. They can keep Darnold a couple more years and bring JJ along slowly. They'll have their QB of the future on their roster.

I'm glad the Browns didn't decide to do that with Joe Thomas.

While that sounds all well and good at first glance, that would mean the Browns win more games once they "Build the lines & running game " so they would be drafting mid pack. That means we would have to give up multiple assets in the draft to move up to get a QB. A QB drafted now insures 4 years at a low cost compared to a FA QB. Even the trade to the Vikings gives us a kid that will still have 3 years left on his rookie deal. Building first and then drafting a QB sounds good. But the much higher additional price you have to pay for that QB doesn't.

I don't think last night will have some huge impact after Darnold leading them to a 14-3 season. If you had a QB that just accomplished that would the one game last night make you ready to move on from him? Would you suddenly be questioning him based on a single game?

All QB's have an off night. That could be said about every QB in the NFL.

Heck, Goff threw 5 int's in a single game this season. The difference is the Lions as a team were good enough to overcome it and win anyway.

Darnold would be cost prohibitive for the Browns and the if the Vikings don't extend him some team or teams will be breaking down his door. I don't see the Vikings allowing him to leave Minnesota.

I understand that, but any way you cut it, Joe didn't help us win many games.

Just a general comment. I think there are QBs we can get in round 2 or 3 that will fit the Stefanski offense and be perfectly fine QBs.

"Perfectly fine"?

That sounds a bit like jumbo shrimp and happily married where NFL quarterbacks are concerned. 🤣

I think you overestimate McCarthy's value now. He's coming off injury. He didn't actually do anything in the regular season. He's a project. I don't know what you trade for an injured project, especially when you're in position to get a similar one with an extra year of cost control in the draft.

Preseason success is nice, but I'm not sure how much it really tells you. Everything was plain yoghurt, not even vanilla.

If Darnold bombs and they need McCarthy to play for them, he could be pretty valuable to them next year. I don't think QB is a position Kwesi will give up the bird in hand. That position is just too valuable. Throw in the idea that he doesn't really know what exactly he has due to the injury, and I don't see it.

I also don't see a lot of glaring needs on their roster. The injury to their LT hurt, but he should be back. QB is probably still their biggest question.

If JJ does have the goods, a QB on a rookie contract keeps the window open for awhile. Kwesi saw what a big QB contract that doesn't work out can do to a team.



...I'm digging into Milroe. In some ways, I kind of like that he faced adversity this season.

And that's why I compared the two. But the comparison goes further than that. Both edge rushers and LT's of their quality are very hard to find. There were only a hand full of LT's that anyone could compare to Thomas and even then it was hard to do. Myles too is on an elite level as a pass rusher.

And as much as one can say "they don't help us win many games" that's a rather subjective opinion. And then one can ask whose fault is that? Will a great LT help win you games with a crappy QB? No. But just how valuable and hard to find is it if you have a good QB? How many close games would you win if your QB wasn't being pressured, hit and sacked from his blind side?

How many more close games would you win if your edge rushers were disrupting the other teams QB if you had a good offense? For a purely "putting points on the board" perspective it's hard to argue with what you're saying. But that's not the only way to approach this. I mean DB's don't win may games either if you look at the points they put on the board. But we both know they play a key role in teams winning games.

The question I ask myself is what are the odds we can replace Myles with a similar talent at edge rusher? How many failed attempts would that take? How many more points would the opposition score if he wasn't out there?

And it seems obvious that NFL teams value both of those positions much higher than you do. Top talent edge rushers and LT's go very high in the draft. Myles was the first overall pick in the draft and Thomas went #3. By contrast you rarely see a RB drafted in the top half of the first round and very few even in the first round. You know, a position that puts points on the board. Or as you would say help us win games.

Cam Ward is a pocket passer. Moves well in the pocket. Can throw off platform. Big arm

I'd hope Stefanski is capable of working with those tools.

It's also possible the Titans take him at #1 overall. I don't think it's a forgone conclusion that Sanders goes #1.

Exactly. This is what I mentioned in a previous post and touched on similar points.

McCarthy talk is a non-starter. He's not going anywhere this year.

Ward reminds me too much of Watson. That doesn't mean he'd be awful, I just have a hard time getting past it.

Yea, I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. We’re not likely going to get into anything exotic or extraordinary in terms of trades. I deeply suspect we’re not going to be sending draft picks for backups and relative unknowns considering our roster is so depleted of draft stock. And you know… how burned we’ve been in risky trades for QBs. Plus, we don’t have the $ to sign a big name anyway. The QB room is already a money pit.

I’m not a draft expert and I’ve only just started digging into the QBs of this draft but I think it’s safe to say there isn’t a Jayden Daniels that starts for the Browns next years and has a successful season. Which means, to me, we have no business drafting QB at 2.

So look at available FA’s, Maybe another team’s practice squad, who’s out there? It’s one of them. I bet we make a run at Cousins. Is Flacco free next season? Maybe we just suffer with Winston. But we’re looking for retread, hopefully we strike Darnold gold.

But like it or not, we’re in rebuild. If there was a QB at 2 worthy of starting, perhaps we would have leapfrogged a rebuild. But it’s just not there. Which means by the time we ARE able to secure a promising QB, a lot of our current players will be at or past their current contracts. It’s just terrible timing and circumstances.

Im honestly kind of wishing they would just commit to a rebuild. It would probably be the quickest way out of the morass. I love garret but he’s not gonna win us many games next year or the year after. Get a draft haul for him. Eat the DW dead money sh!? sandwich after next season, start swapping those contracts, get young on the OL and tee up another swing at a QB next year when the crop looks a lot better. I don’t see a way to a championship team next year so you might as well set it up for 27-28. Otherwise we just bandaid and limp and spackle and draft in the middle for a couple years and we watch our stars leave with nothing in return. And then… reboot.

Sunk cost is a bear. Don't fool ourselves. Assess the landscape, be sober and realistic. Cut bait, Be bold.

Just my .02

I don't think there's a Jayden Daniels in this draft either. At which point the question becomes is there a Bo Nix? And if there is a Bo Nix does anyone believe the current FO can find him?

I think it's more a matter of building him,than finding him.KS is not Sean Peyton.

What rookie have they given him to build other than DTR? Or do you think Sean Peyton could have built DTR?

Could have penned this myself. Spot-on imo. Trading out of #2 accelerates this plan.

Man, I do not see that. Watson ran a ton in college. Ran for over 1,000 yards his sophomore year and over 600 yards hi junior year. Ward is not a runner but can use his athleticism to escape the rush. Most rushing yards in a year was 200 yards. In other years he ran for 54 yards and 144 yards.

Watson ran quite in bit in Houston as well.

Ward seems to have a much better handle on the offense than one read Watson. Reads the defense pre-snap and processes quickly, throws with anticipation. He's taken huge leaps forward each year.

Watson's game was best when he scrambled around and played out of structure. That's not Cam Ward's game.

man....i dont think he's great, but maybe a change of scenery. What if Trevor Lawrence could run Stefanski's scheme?