DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Stefanski and Berry

If Berry is going stay the whole 2025 he needs to succeed in FA and almost every draft pick in the Browns first three rounds.
Not only that he needs to convince Garrett and maybe some more of his better players to stay and he need to find a solution how to handle Watson's salary situation.

Another dilemma is what he's going to do with Nick Chubb. Everybody wants him to stay but signing a two or three year deal with a player with so much injuries is a huge risk.

His biggest challenge is when he's going to pick a new QB. 2025 or 2026?
Waiting to 2026 comes with a risk of another failed season where he can easily get fired because of bad results.
If decides to pick a QB in 2025 the talent pool is much smaller than in 2026.

I don't envy him.

Another problem is that both him and his HC are deeply connected to the Deshaun Watson fiasco.
As long as the Browns delivers good results nobody cares but the criticism will increase for every lost game.

If we trade back in this draft and get more picks I have no problem with us taking a flyer on a QB. If not, we should draft BPA and let the draft come to us. I feel we should sign Cousins and another vet QB and keep DTR as 3rd option if we don't draft a QB. DW is another matter. Maybe we keep him as the backup since we have to pay him and KC will be our #1.

If I were in AB's position, I would swallow my pride a bit and ask someone that knows for some input on drafting a QB. I would want to finally get it right.

Agreed. I'm sure we've all had to ask for some help in our lives when an important decision had to be made whether it's on the job, at home etc. No harm or shame in that.

You are saying this while AB hasn't had a first round pick in over three years. Last year, he drafted a second rounder, the two drafts before that he didn't have one, lol. Hard to judge a guys drafting when he has made 1 day 1 or 2 pick in three plus years.

Right. I used that (your) post to confirm my statement.


You said this a few posts before the one I replied. I should've replied to this one as the follow up to be more clear.

The word reasonable unfortunately flies out of the window when your team probably end the season with 14 losses. (depending on the last two games)
There’s no room for mistakes when we’re so short of playmakers and don’t even have a QB who can produce on average more than 2 TD per game.

The results will be his judge no matter what the odds say.

J/c

Just a general observation.... Its ok to disagree. Its ok to let people have a different opinion.

I mentioned elsewhere Berry has had some good drafts. Overall i would think above average.

The questions i have for anyone supporting Berry and wanting him in charge of a rebuild .... Looking at the roster, where is the strength of the team? Where is the talent and depth? Where do we need improvement? To me we need a lot of help in a lot of positions. I see one of the worst rosters in the NFL .... So how has Berry done a good job out deserve to keep his job. How can you convince me that somehow given a second chance, this time he's going to get it right???

If you have complete confidence in him, i don't, help me understand why you do.

Make sure that the organization after almost five seasons has a QB that has the skills to at least challenge for a division title is the minimum you can expect from a competent GM.

He kicked out Mayfield and Flacco to end the 2024 season with DTR and Winston. What to say?

After almost five seasons it’s unacceptable to have a team in the end of 2024 that’s significantly worse than the roster he took over in 2020.

How can you keep faith in GM who makes our team worse the longer he stays?

Overall I understand your position and don't disagree. One point has me a bit perplexed. You say over all you feel his drafts have been above average but don't trust him to make the right decisions. Seems a bit contradictory. No?

A few things have happened. The first is while our roster was rated as one of the most talented in the league, age has caught up with some who are no longer in the prime of their career but on the back side of the career.

The biggest is our QB room is probably the weakest in the NFL. We have been chasing the ghost of Deshawn Watson, which i do understand. You don't just give up after a season on a position which you invested as heavily as we did to get the guy. It just didn't work, and now we have a bunch of guys at the position who just can't play anymore or will never be able to play.

My hope is we play Zappe. He is the only guy we haven't seen play for us. We know we can't keep Winston or Dorian as we head in to next season. Maybe Zappe is a guy we can keep as a back-up or 3rd stringer as we head in to next season. Winston can give you big numbers, but those big numbers also include turnovers. Dorian just plain sucks.

And it was Berry that put himself in that position. So you're saying we shouldn't judge him for draft picks he traded away himself? When you trade those picks away for a failure it's you who are left holding the bag for all of it in its entirety.

The Browns can do better at GM. Berry has a losing record as a GM.
Kinda funny the assistant GM to Berry that the Vikings
lured away...what's his name Mensah...has accomplished
More in his 3 years as Vikings GM than Berry has in any 3 year
Window in Cleveland

You can blame him for trading picks. I don't think one can use that in judging the drafts. Drafts are what they are, no matter the picks. I don't think the drafts he has had have been very good, and that isn't taking in to account he hasn't had #1 picks that usually help to prop up a draft. Our 2nd and 3rd rounders have been very questionable for the most part.

I guess what i am saying is not having #1 picks lowers the bar for what one can expect.

That's exactly what I did. The DW trade is where he decided DW was worth at least as much or more as those draft picks plus 230 million guaranteed. At that money and the draft was directly linked to the trade.

How can one say the draft stands alone on the picks he made when in actuality he willingly gave up three first round picks and a second round pick he should have been making? I'm looking at all the draft capital the Browns had and putting it in the same box and not divide it out simply to paint a brighter picture.

In the end as part of the Browns draft capital it had before the watson trade, AB gave 3 first round draft picks and a 2nd round draft pick away for pretty much nothing worthwhile in return. That's probably the biggest part of his history here as GM related to the draft.

And he was responsible for all of it in its totality. So his botched trade lowered the bar for himself? There should be no expected return on investment for all of those prime draft picks? It sounds to me like another case of not holding people responsible for their own actions.

The Chubb thing is a dilemma for sure. If they resign Chubb and he's not his old self, it's ugly, but then, If anyone deserves that shot at coming back, it's Chubb. Where else would be the right place for that attempt. I think they almost have to do it.

Damned if they do and damned if they don't. Do not envy them on this one.

I'm looking at it as draft picks are draft picks. How you use all draft picks, whether they are traded or the picks were bad they are all draft picks. Drafting a player who will be cut in a year or two verses getting nothing in return for draft picks that were traded away the GM is responsible for all of it.

And we will have no way of knowing if it would be Haslam's or Berry's decision as to whether watson will still compete for the job. Berry has a huge steak in the success of DW. As much or more than anyone.

You either consider all draft capital as part of the process or you don't. I do. Trading those picks away in a terrible trade in the end has the exact same impact as if Berry had those picks and squandered every one of them in the draft. Because the results are exactly the same.

There is also no indication that "there was more to it" just because it failed so miserably. Your assertion is the man who was hired to do that job isn't the man who did that job.

We could win with Brissette as our #1, IMO. Say no to Cousins (he's near done) but Darnold intrigues me. The others: 'blah'. Keep Winston as our #2 guy.....

I was expecting that response from someone. No, it has nothing to do with what I said.

He had three first round picks over those three years. He decided to gift them all to Houston. Sometimes reality bites but that doesn't make it any less a reality.

Cool, it has nothing to do with the evaluation of the actual picks he made. That was the conversation between Bone and I.

The point came up that he should only be evaluated on the draft picks he made. My point is he should be evaluated based on how he used all of his draft resources.

Your view is the picks he squandered have nothing to do with it. My view is by doing that you are giving him a free pass on a huge investment he chose not to make in improving this team by wasting it on watson. It has everything to do with the picks he couldn't make and somehow you think that has no place in the conversation. Which is fine. Let's pretend none of that ever happened.

Exactly.

Well with so much focus on the draft in recent posts its worth clarifying the situation.

Now we've agreed the entire roster is his responsibility..... Do we also agree the roster is in bad shape ?

All draft assets are part of any draft. They are directly connected to what you can or can not get in the draft. Thus the loss of three 1st round draft picks and a 2nd round pick are directly connected to those drafts. They are directly connected to the ability to help continue adding high level talent to the team via the draft. They are directly connected to where this team is now.

Pit, would those picks have been vital if Watson played near expectation?

A good quarterback overcomes many deficiencies. Now, the Browns need a near-perfect team to overcome the QB flaws.

I don't agree with the roster is in bad shape. Definitely some changes or adjustments need to be made. Peen made some good points about some hitting their peaks and on their downside. I agree with Bone's wrap of the overall team and definitely the philosophy about being a run focused team (though I hate being that, we just don't have the QB for a pass focused).

Naturally, I had a breakdown of every area...then deleted it by accident. So a quicker version of it.

QB - obviously need changes

RB - Have to draft one. Ford has some value as a 2rd or 3rd back. We need more speed here, especially for the passing game.

WR - Winston shown that Jeudy can be highly productive, if not a #1 receiver. Tillman was showing promise, Moore will probably leave via FA. Would prefer they draft or sign a solid FA

TE - Njoku is good, besides injuries. Before the season, I really wanted them to bring in a second solid TE. They decided to save money here.

OL - This will probably have a few new faces (starters) via FA. Teller will probably be gone, upgrading Pocic. Probably draft a lineman or two. Jones will be back too.

DE - Garrett is top notch, probably sign through FA the other spot. McGuire has played pretty well the past couple games, hope he keeps developing.

DT - Tomlinson has been ok. Possibly pickup a FA here. Hall Jr and Briggs have played pretty good the past couple games.

LB - JOK played well till his injury. Hick was a solid pickup, he's played pretty well coming back from early season injury. Diabate has had his ups and downs

CB - Ward is a household name. The rest haven't had the best of season. Possible high draft pick, b/c Berry loves him some DBs.

S - Delpit has been alright. Not as good as last year in my view. The other S spot needs addressed. Hickman has been alright, however he should be a second stringer.


I see the defense needing some adjustments. Having one of the best DEs, a great talent (JOK) at LB, and one of the best CBs (Ward) is a great foundation for the defense. There are a few others that have played solid. For the Dline, hopefully McGuire, Hall Jr., and Briggs (I'll add Wright too) keep developing. This would be a big benefit for the Dline and for them getting younger there.

As for the offense, this is what is holding the team back.

The obvious the QB position. Winston showed what our receivers can do when you have a talent back there. The OL lost 5 players (6 if you partially count Conklin) to the IR. That is a ton of depth to lose.

My 3 main areas for upgrading - QB, RB, and OL. We need talent at the RB position, we also need upgrades on the OL, so the RB can actually have some running lanes.


We should have around 40 million to spend next year, this should easily supplement the OL and a few other positions.

Watson hasn't played a full NFL season in what, going on 5 years now? He is done.

Why don't you and everybody else who is bitching and moaning. Try something new. Post some facts, some proof to back up what you say. I miss that around here. These days a lot of you post lies, half truths and just complete garbage. IF you say AB's drafting sucks so bad PROVE IT. Compare it to other teams draft picks over his years of drafting. It was YOU that posted about the Browns picks being so bad. I posted an article that showed that was wrong. Your reply...... crickets.... just more posts crying but he sucks, he sucks.

If you have proof that he sucks post it don't just make crap up in your mind and say it's true.