DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Jimmy Haslam

Actually it isn't making something out of nothing. There was a huge shift in what people said for decades before the watson trade compared to what they said right after the watson trade. I appreciate your explanation for your shifting position however. I hope it all works out the way you hope it does.

The one thing I am hoping through all this season is that Jimmy Haslam is patient. I'm predicting a ceiling of 6- 8 wins and a last place finish. I hope I'm wrong. That's not what I want to see happen, but you have to be realistic. Mr. Haslam has to realize it's not a "normal" season for us with DW sitting the first 11 games. We don't need anyone fired namely KS or AB. I hope Jacoby lights it up and plays well but without DW it's not a true assessment of our team. My 2 cents.

6-8 wins? With the roster we have, even without Watson, if they only win 6 games, everyone should be fired

IrishDawg, this is a brilliant post! You have explained well why the DW trade was so “risky” or as I would say stupid. I know no one here cares what I think since I was not born a browns fan and my grandfather did not cheer for Jim Brown. But I have a couple of close “born and raised” Browns fans, they have both gotten rid of their Browns gear and are deciding what new team to “adopt.” Neither were Baker fans, they just can’t stomach rooting for a team that they felt had sold their soul to the devil, nor can they look at their daughters in the face and explain why they are a fan of DW after reading about him #####ing on young women faces.

This situation is so sad. I enjoyed the underdog role my four years as a Browns fan, there was even something to be proud of in rooting for a team that was 1-31, in that it proves the resilience and faithfulness of you as a fan. That is all gone now, even a Super Bowl with DW, would be hollow and soulless.

Cleveland against the world? Yes, and deservedly so.

I might not agree that everyone should be fired, but no doubt 6 wins should at minimum put someone, or two, on the hot seat.

I think maybe in the front office as well.

I think Berry has done a great job on the whole. That said we do seem to have a few weak areas. I am not sure if the problem is with scouting, the manner in which we scout positions, or just bad picks. For some reason we do a great job of scouting backs and defensive backfield players. We are weak at scouting defensive line and wide receivers.

I don't know what we have to do to beef up our ability to scout or select players from those two position groups, but we need to do something to improve the scouting of those positions. We just seem to keep selecting miss after miss, with fairly high picks. I will say that the addition of Bell this year might break that trend at the receiver position.

I understand that when you use 3rd and 4th rounders you usually aren't going to get sure thing, all-pro players, but that is also high enough you should be able to find decent starters at least a good percentage of the time. We aren't even doing that.

Those are areas we need to figure out.

I hope the fans don't start the fire mantra again. The media picks up on it and then there is more discussion about such things than any other. Firing people has been a huge detriment to this franchise. Stay the course.

Many of us around here Did cheer for Jim Brown, and watched him play. The reason nobody cares what you think is because your a Baker fan, NOT a Browns fan. You don't just wake up one day and say I'm going to be a Browns fan, then four years later wake up and say gee I'm not a Browns fan anymore. That is the mark of a bandwagon fan. Not a true fan which you never were.

Then what exactly do you get out of posting here?

Sometimes the mantra that rises is a result of a call for accountability. Though I'm in agreement with the notion that the lack of continuity has hurt the Browns in the past, ignoring what has transpired since October 2021 to a playoff team cannot be ignored and if a 6-win season follows that there should be serious questions with the leadership.

So, what is the foundation that some of those questions would generate from:
1. Sharp Football Analysis, 2022 NFL Offensive Line Rankings by Unit, Browns ranked 1st
2. Sharp Football Analysis, 2022 NFL Running Backs Rankings by Unit, Browns ranked 1st
3. Sharp Football Analysis, 2022 NFL Defensive Front Seven by Unit, Browns ranked 6th
4. Sharp Football Analysis, 2022 NFL Defensive Secondary Rankings by Unit, Browns ranked 4th
5. 3-years continuity FO and Coaches
6. Over 290M invested in the improved new QB room in 2022
7. 49.206M Cap Space Availability in 2022

If it was any other team in the league, what would be the expectations for a team that possessed all the proceeding?

2020 record 11-5, 2021 record 8-9 - is a continued regression acceptable on any level for the FO or coaches knowing the foundation the team possesses?

Where is the line of accountability drawn in 2022 for results or is "potential" the new mantra for team, FO, and coaches now and in the future?

If the Browns win 8 or less games in 2022, is the 2-year downward spiral deemed acceptable for the FO and coaches or is accountability only looked at when everything is perfect?

IMHO, 2022 will tell a lot about accountability or meeting expectations of the FO and the coaches. What exactly is the break point after a 2-year downward spiral?

That's not a fire mantra, it's an accountability/expectation mantra - as it should be.

What was the Sharp Football Analysis, 2022 NFL QB Rankings by Unit, ranking?

Seems to me that the Browns defined what was holding them back and decided to rectify that situation.

First of all, the rankings are 2022 projections not 2021 results. Second of all, the 2022 NFL Quarterback Rankings by Unit, the Browns were rated 14th and the rating took into account Watson's uncertain availability due to suspension. Even with that, breaking into the top 10 in 2022 would be suspect at best.

QUARTERBACK RANKINGS by UNIT
Rank____Team__________Score

1. Kansas City 97
2 Green Bay Packers 90
2 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 90
4 Los Angeles Chargers 89
5 Buffalo Bills 86
6 Los Angeles Rams 78
6 Balitmore Ravens 78
8 Cincinnati Bengals 75
9 Dallas Cowboys 73
10 Denver Broncos 69

14 Cleveland Browns 53

We will soon see - Baker has had an extremely short time with the Panthers to learn the playbook and gel with the team. for most of that time he was splitting reps in a QB competition. He's on a team universally regarded as one of the bottom feeders. He's playing his first game against a top defense with very good DB's and a good pass rush. If he's as bad as you now think he is - then this game won't be close and the Browns will be running out the clock in the 3rd Q onwards. If some of the other factors truly impacted Baker's play - number of HC and OC - playing on a 1-31 team - injury - new mechanics at the start of 2020 .... well maybe the game will be closer. I think Baker is a top 15 QB in the NFL when healthy.... I think he's got the potential to be better but the good thing is, while we root for the Browns, we get to see how it plays out.

QB records are not a real stat.

For example, Watson has a career record of 7-19 against teams with a winning record and was 0-9 against teams with a winning record in 2020.

We all know Watson is a top tier QB.


https://sportsandfitnessdigest.com/deshaun-watson-record-against-winning-teams/

You made my point about evaluating QBs.

QB records are not a real stat. It goes much deeper.

The flip side to that was the Chiefs and Chargers games. We lost those and Baker and the O absolutely TORCHED those defenses.

Except when it mattered.

This is an emotional response. It's akin to internet crying because your team traded your favorite player. I probably acted this way when the team dumped Bernie.

There's a good chance Baker plays well against us and maybe for the season. The Panthers have low expectations. Baker thrives and plays loose with low expectations. He's going to come out juiced for game 1 and let it rip. If he has success early in the game, I can see that carrying the Panthers toward a win. And we have, well, we have a journeyman backup as our starter. But it won't change the fact that Baker wasn't a long term solution here or anywhere. The only thing that will change that is a long second year contract from someone.

The defense really needs to show up this season for the Browns to have a chance game in and game out. I don't have confidence they will. We need dogs. I don't think we have enough of those.

Don't forget about those missed FG's and dropped passes he had too ! He was probably at fault for not calling the illegal hit on the last play too. Sorry - couldn't help myself! Lots of angles and opinions from all - all covered previously.

The 2022 injury was rectified too. And it wasn't the Browns that rectified it, it was a surgeon. But let's ignore that part of it. Yeah, they rectified it. Brissett is the starter for 11 games.

No.... but by all means, you go ahead and believe that if it helps with your emotional responses to the team and what happens this season. All good.

He moved the team like 7 yds in 1:15 against the Chargers. No dropped passes or missed FGs during that drive.

Another emotional response.

In hindsight, MAYBE you're right with the Chiefs game. Still, we put up 29 points and scored a TD in the 4th.

The Chargers game is not debatable, IMO. We put up 42 point, 22 of which occurred in the second half. Chargers hung 20'some on us in the 4th quarter. That's not an offense-problem.


My overall point was that the O started hot before major injuries started hitting early and often (Baker and the Oline, in particular). Injuries had started taking their toll by the time the D had finally found its footing.

I agree with your overall point here.

j/c:

All I know is that I personally support Stefanski and our Front Office. I was not a fan of either, but they earned my approval. I'm secure enough to change my opinion on things when the facts dictate that the opinion should change.

Bonefish, relax and take a pill buddy. The post was a hypothetical as to what happens if the Browns only win 6 games this year. Spin it anyway you want, if the Browns go from 11-5 in 2020 to 8-9 in 2021 to 6-11 in 2022 with the talent the Browns possess, IMHO - that's a downward spiral. We can say it was all Baker's fault in 2021 and all Brissett's fault in 2022 but the constant that remains is the Browns have had a top tier OL, top tier Defense, top tier RB tandem, and money to burn but also the same FO and coaches that are supposed to put a winning product on the field with the assets they possess. Coaches and the FO's don't get extensions because of potential. If that were the case, it'd be impossible to fire any coach or FO.

From a football perspective, I do too. But I don't think they somehow get a pass because the QB they went after won't be available for most of the season. Not least of which because they knew he'd be suspended from the jump. AB and KS are the ones responsible for constructing the roster AND how they're used on Sundays. KS has a talented enough roster to AT LEAST match the win total from last year. So long as injuries aren't a complete ish-show like they were last year, we should do better as well.

All that said, I don't think KS's seat is hot. If we have a disappointing season (which would be 2 in a row), then I think it makes sense to start talking about seat temperature going into next year.

JMO.

After which he made excuses why it's quite possible Baker would play well and the Browns lose to the Panthers. You couldn't make that crap up if you tried.

Here's the bottom line. The Browns are weaker on the O Line. The C position is a huge question mark. People seem to dismiss that. We have exactly one WR who may demand a double team and that depends on how good the opponents #1 CB is. Otherwise nobody has yet shown they deserve that type of attention. Sure they have a great running game but teams know they need to concentrate on the run.

Lamb was the Cowboys #1 WR last year and Cooper was relegated to the #2 WR spot. Even as the #2 WR Cooper caught for 250 yards less than he did in 2021 and over 300 yards less than he caught for in 2019. That's not a good trend. The Browns signed Njoku to a huge contract extension while stat wise he certainly hasn't lived up to his athletic potential. So will year 6 be a breakout year for him? People need to ask themselves, does it usually take 6 years for an NFL TE to breakout at their position?

The Browns are weaker at the DT position as well. Opening up the oppositions running game up the middle even more than last year. Then there's the hope that when watson does come back he will be the same watson everyone saw in 2020 after not having played in an NFL game since January 3rd of 2021.

It is true the Browns haven't played a game yet. It is true they could be just fine. But the stars will have to align just perfect for that to happen. Winning 6-8 games is far more of a realistic expectation than many are willing to admit.

It's crazy to think when your team scores 29 and even 42 points people can blame the offense for the loss. Not surprising, just crazy.

Obviously, evaluating front offices and coaches is a very subjective process, especially when fans are doing the evaluating.

I guess I can understand why some people won't give them a pass this year, but I don't look at this situation as a one-year window. In my opinion, they had almost absolutely no shot of obtaining a true top-tier QB and they somehow pulled it off. Of course, the consequences for doing so has led to a barrage of attacks from countless sources. They had to know it was coming and they still had the guts to get the deal done. I think the moves will pay off in the long run and I think that Watson will be the qb for a long, long time. I think having a qb of that caliber gives you a chance for prolonged success. Thus, it's not one year for me. I actually applaud them for admitting they didn't have the right guy and having the guts to dump even though he was a very popular figure w/the fans and local media. They went all in despite knowing they would get beat up by those who loved the previous qb and by those who are repulsed by Watson.

Again, these are just my opinions and I am not asking anyone to agree. I don't want to get into an argument about it. Just voicing my own personal opinion.

Three 1st downs and 21 yards, including a 10 yard dart to Njoku on that drive before two INC's to DPJ and Higgins and the failed Hail Mary attempt from our own 46.

DPJ was bracketed in double coverage and the ball was thrown to where he just needed to keep running hard to get under it, but he slowed up a little while tracking it instead of continuing at full speed.
The throw to Higgins was a bit high, but was thrown to be beyond the defender, between Higgins and the sideline, leading him toward the sideline. Not the best throw, but probably not the best effort by Higgins, either.
The Hail Mary is what it is... those are, at best, a 10% chance of success.


Video on YouTube

I think the question becomes "under whose orders"? I don't think the coaching staff had any impact on bringing watson here. They had no part of the investigation, negotiations or any other part of the process that brought him here. As it pertains to the FO, we just don't know what part they played in it. I'm sure that if Haslam asked them to study the analytics of watson being the Browns QB the answer they gave was a positive one. Watson is definitely a huge upgrade on the field. So if that was the extent of their input on the decision to bring him here it was an easy one. But did they have a say or were they asked what the impact would be from a PR standpoint and how severe the ramifications would be off the field? I don't think anyone outside of the group in the FO and Halslam know for sure.

Once the decision was made it's obvious watson didn't want to come here because he said so. I don't think it took some stroke of brilliance to offer him a kings ransom to make him an offer he couldn't refuse to change his mind. We know Haslam endorsed the entire thing because he signed the check. Outside of that we have no idea what went on behind the scenes.

Nope - but you go ahead and troll.

I left out the parts where our offense controlled ToP by almost a full quarter (36+ minutes to 23 minutes) and where that entire final sequence was set up by Schwartz fielding a kick-off at the 3 yard line and then only getting out to the 14. That was followed by two bad runs by Hunt and an incompletion to Higgins before Gillan failed to even punt past the 50, giving them the ball in our territory where the defense then chose to surrender a TD in just 31 seconds.