DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Baker Mayfield continued

jc

watson! watson! watson!

and good lord. yall still talking about trubisky?

i almost forgot how so many of you thought trubisky was better than watson. it was so laughable then, but now im wondering if some of you need to be omitted to a mental institution.

trubisky is trash. we have a chance to go get a TOP TIER QB. take the risk, and get a real franchise QB.

I'm looking/thinking about which QBs are out there and available over the next 2 offseasons, but I'm really hesitant on Watson. There's the obvious legal purgatory he's in, but I'm actually more worried about what Stefanski will want his role to be and who he's going to have catching passes out there.

Baker is a big part of the problem, but Baker isn't leaving a rookie 4th rounder on an island vs Watt and refusing to adjust, and Baker isn't the highest paid TE dropping pass after pass. If we're going to swing a massive trade for a legit vet fQB, there are other things in our house we have to straighten out.

trust me i feel you bro. its a huge coin flip with his legal issues. however, this crap has moved so slow that its probable he dodges any charges.

and for the record, i keep saying this: he will most likely get suspended for play misconduct like kareem hunt and serve 6-10 game suspension. AS HE SHOULD.

but just like browns fans forgave and embraced a kareem hunt who was ON VIDEO beating up on a woman, if watson dodges charges on some he said/she said stuff with no evidence, than it is what it is.

as far as on the field. you're right. stefanski needs to fix that. but watson can move and scramble out of harms way when that crap happens. and watson is a much better passer than baker. for more accurate. lets not forget that baker has been missing open receivers left and right. lets not forget that baker mayfield cant even read defenses. lets not forget how many times we have a receiver open, only for baker to not take the easy pass and throw it until double coverage and such.

watson lost hopkins and STILL ended up a top 5 QB that season. a run dominated team for someone like watson would be devastating to opposing defenses.

i want to win. i want a QB that can match throw for throw against burrow, or run for run against lamar. thats watson, a TRUE dual threat.

I'm not sure what frustrates me more. The QB situation or the WR situation. Why do the Browns need a WR when that position does not appear to be a valuable position in the play callers playbook. Yes, be nice to have someone stretch the field to get the ball to the tight ends. Be nice to to have a WR who can stretch the field and actually get a ball thrown to him in rhythm and not have to stop to catch the ball.


What QB or WR would want to come here ?

j/c...

I'd say it's a fairly safe bet that we saw Baker play in Browns uniform for the last time last night.

Between the comments made between the FO/Coaches and Mayfield over the last month it seems like a fractured relationship has been in the making and we saw it come to head last night.

Nobody on this team is having fun anymore.

Here we are again....a dumpster fire to end the season.

A big part of me loves Baker, and wants to give him another chance ....

But another big part of me feels like I've seen enough inconsistency over the last three years from him and that it's time to move on.

I fully acknowledge his injury has been a hinderance to him, and I've defended him all year.

I also fully acknowledge that our WR core is awful, and Stefanski hasn't put him in the best play call situations all season long.

(See all the empty set formations and lack of bootleg/play action early in games).

He's played a big hand in our failures, but so have other people on the team.

Before we upgrade the QB position, we're in desperate need of a WR/TE make over, so let's assume that's going to happen.

With that being said, if we're going to replace Baker, here is who I'd prefer to replace him with if it were up to me ....

#1 - Derek Carr .... this really only happens if the Raiders fail to make the playoffs and then try to lure Aaron Rodgers and Devante Adams to town in the off-season. Vegas could then potentially trade Carr for a mid-round draft pick or two and he's the guy I would love to have here. This is probably an unrealistic long shot. If I am Vegas I would be happy with Carr's play and would do all I can to try and surround him with some better weapons. Considering that team doesn't have a good defense, or even any good receivers minus Reinfrow (spelling?) he's done wonders for them as far as keeping them competitive goes. I highly doubt we land him, but if it's possible he's definitely at the top of my list.

#2 - Jimmy G ... seems like he might fit Stefanski's run first/play-action style offense. With the 49ers having Lance waiting in the wings we might be able to get him for a mid-round draft pick.

#3 - Move up and draft Kenny Pickett and sign/trade for Gardner Minshew to compete with him to be the starter ... this also means releasing Keenum to free up cap space to address other positions. I like Minshew and think he has a lot of moxie that this team continues to need. He did pretty well at times in Jacksonville when you consider the lack of talent around him down there. Maybe he could shine behind a good offensive line and with a consistently good running game? You never know. I really like Pickett too if we can get him, and if he can take some time to develop that's even better.

Obviously I would love to have Aaron Rodgers or Russell Wilson, but I don't think getting either of them to come to Cleveland is going to be very realistic, and I'm not interested in trading half a dozen high draft picks to get them either.

I mean Baker played like garbage. No getting around that - but I think this decision for our rookie RT to be 1 on 1 with the best pass rusher in the NFL for so much of the game was one of the most perplexing and infuriating things about last night game and Stefanski. There's a lot to unpack from the game - but this had me thinking we are the old Browns again, a week after taking GB to the wire.

Yeah, I was also thinking about Hunt when I wrote my last post. I had a stronger post written about his legal stuff but backed off because then I'd be a hypocrite (I'm a vocal Hunt fan on this team).

I am starting to hope that we're looking at what quick (if expensive) fixes we can make at the QB position. The problem is that that doesn't solve all our problems, and actually makes some worse (we need draft assets to address other areas). I hope we re-sign Clowney, but we also need to draft a promising DE behind him. We need to throw some $$ at the TE position and $$ and draft picks at the WR position.

I don't think we're as bad off as many think (especially now after watching that game). I think our Oline getting healthy and us getting a viable replacement for Hubbard gets the offense mostly back to where it needs to be. I do think an offseason to get his mind and body right will do Baker wonders. If that's enough is the real question. I'm just not sure we can swing a Earth-shattering QB acquisition while fixing the other things with the offense.

I think you're right.

I think a big part of Baker's issues this year was not getting the contract. It caused him to doubt himself, press, and play poorly. Then you add the injury. Baker cannot manufacture confidence. It needs to be provided.

In a weird twist of fate I believe Baker would have played much better had they extended him and he was the unquestioned starter moving forward. They didn't, and he just caved under the pressure.

As for Stefanski, Matt Nagy took a beating for a week after leaving his tackle on an island with Garrett. What Stefanski did last night was no different. It was either intentional or poor coaching. I believe Stefanski will be here next year, but if he doesn't make the playoffs we'll be looking for another coach again. And short of watson, Rodgers, or Wilson we won't be making the playoffs.

Good times ahead.

Yeah, the Hudson at RT with NO HELP is an abomination to coaching .. that HAD to be a set up for Baker to fail, no? We couldnt possibly think that would work … and then to never adjust?

I don't know. Didn't Baker walk on to 2 college teams? For all the knocks on him, needing to be coddled and have confidence fed to him doesn't seem to be one of them.

j/c...

Jake Burns
@jake_burns18
Baker Mayfield from EMPTY sets this year according to @SportsInfo_SIS

10th in dropbacks
11th in EPA
4th in Positive%

Jake Burns
@jake_burns18
Empty sets do not appear to be the big issue folks want them to be compared to his peers.

John Kosko
@JohnKosko3
Since week 10, 30 QBs have at least 150 dropbacks.

Baker Mayfield ranks
Grade: 29th
TWP%: 29th
BTT%: 20th
Inaccurate rate: 30th

https://twitter.com/jake_burns18/status/1478394853885108242
https://twitter.com/JohnKosko3/status/1478389215104745478

Baker's insistance on going out there and playing injured while severely hurting the team's chances to win games probably cost him a lot of respect. Same with our coach for letting it happen. The team leadership is totally in the crapper right now. Hearing Bernie talk about not being able to throw with a harness on confirms it, yet we did it week after week.

j/c

Like a pair of jeans that fit just right...we get to go back to our two decade + comfort zone of looking for a QB and likely riding the QB carousel...the good times return. Found this list of FA QBs:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/quarterback/

These ranked from a different site:

1. Tyrod Taylor, Houston Texans
2. Teddy Bridgewater, Denver Broncos
3. Jameis Winston, New Orleans Saints
4. Cam Newton, Carolina Panthers
5. Ryan Fitzpatrick, Washington Football Team
6. Marcus Mariota, Las Vegas Raiders
7. Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers
8. Jacoby Brissett, Miami Dolphins
9. Andy Dalton, Chicago Bears

Man...there is some serious green grass over there...gotta get us some of that.

I suppose we could trade to FINALLY land Garropolo in maybe a swap with Baker (we will surely get to see Keenum then in the new year)...Drew Lock has no guaranteed $$$ left on his last year of '22 (maybe the next Ryan Tannehill)...Trade Baker straight-up for Matty Ice...send Baker to Saints for a 3rd Rd pick and roll with Fitzpatrick (nah Mariota)...or swap Baker for Watson and have no QB until the league decides what to do with him/us (that'd be fun).

I imagine the 3rd-best-or-so QB will be sitting there for us at pick #13...or maybe trade up inside the top 10 to get Matt Corral.

We're BACK!!!!

Then Baker following that up with his decision to play Hudson at RT and have him go one-on-one with Watt...so selfish. I'll stop being a donkey now.

Look...I get your frustration...but Baker doesn't decide who starts and who plays...he just doesn't. If he truly lost respect by nutting-up and playing through the injury...then he absolutely needs out of Cleveland.

Regardless who's at QB next year, as long as Stefanski remains this team will not be good.. This offense is boring and doesn't put any pressure on defenses with the pass. Its been proven time and time again that if you sell out to stop the run against us you will win. Stefanski blows as a playcaller. I mean look at the jump that minn took after stefanski left. He hates WR and you need WR to win consistently. No QB will come here and play for a coach that doesn't value receivers. It's almost as bad as Woods not valuing linebackers and ours are some of the worst.. Like I said before, Berry needs to get some of this as well. You are the guy who builds the team. You pay a backup qb 10mil/year and then don't play him despite your starter hanging together with rubber bands and elmer's glue. Plenty of games you could have put him in and more than likely won and protected baker...The detroit game for example

Yeah Hudson is one of the worst tackles I've seen us trot out there, makes Hubbard look like Orlando Pace. If Stefanski had any clue he could have done tons more. Wills is a natural RT, Bitonio plays LT better than Wills does, but hance at LG and boom, you have a line that probably isn't going to give up 9 sacks

Play man. Get any pressure. Baker can't handle it.

Why the empty sets?!?!?!

https://twitter.com/jake_burns18/status/1478395955003207682


EMPTY with 3TEs included as of latest
@SportsInfo_SIS
data.

Mayfield is the only player in the NFL with more than 10 attempts. 9-16 for 200 yards and 1TD/0INT.

Again, not the issue.

Honestly, I think the heart Baker showed trying to truck the DB was probably the only thing remotely positive he did last night. He showed some guts (but little else).

This play was a sack.

This was a sack for #90.

I remember this play. I think the real mistake here was taking off to his right. By doing that he cut off all but 1 receiving option (the two that would require throwing back across his body and the RB who was no longer an outlet because Baker ran right behind him).

At worst this should be a throwaway.

someone has to explain how an injury to the non throwing shoulder resulted in a sack on this play.

i wanna see the spin jobs on this. its gonna be good.

It ended last night. Baker doesn't fit our scheme...too many fans don't like him either as a player or a person...the media loves to hate on him...time to move on.

The scheme was perfect for Baker last year. All the coaches came back. The entire offense came back. We ran play action at the same rate.

In this still, he's looking at DPJ, but sees the defender breaking onto him and won't let it fly. Like many times throughout the game, he didn't see the other guy who was hilariously wide open.

only has 3 recievers open, whats he to do? sheesh

Ok then...the scheme is a perfect fit...but Baker forgot how to play NFL QB and it's time to move on. Free agent pass-catchers will jump at the opportunity to play in this high-scoring scheme with whomever is here to throw the ball 18-20 times a game and they can block their butts off to victory and riches. The negativity cannot be overcome...deserved or not...rip off the bandaid and get a new guy in here.

He’s literally passing up multiple wide open receivers for sacks. So yes, him forgetting how to play NFL football seems like a viable explanation.

The whole team sees this stuff when they look at film and they have to be beyond frustrated. Everyone in the locker room knows in their heart that he more than anyone else on the team, by far, kept them from the playoffs. Kept them from winning maybe 12 games. He just doesn't read the defense or make good decisions. I don't know how that gets fixed.

Yet everything we've seen and heard out of Baker is that he wants to start and he wants to play. So I guess you're suggesting that Stefanski should be saving Baker from himself?

Yeah, I bet every QB there is would like a HC that would bench his QB when he says he's healthy enough to play much better.

Then again we could have a QB that realizes how poorly his play is impacting his game and not insist on playing.

Medical staff 👍
Baker 👍

Sitting Baker is equivalent to benching him if you sit him. How do you think that would go over?

This! QFT

Not last night, but there were games where Baker started the game with a visible limp. I don't think sitting him in those situations is equivalent to a benching. Just like sitting him next weekend so he can get surgery isn't the same as a benching (though he arguably earned one).

And it was perfect for 2 weeks this year too. I wonder what changed?

The claim that Stefanski forgot how to coach is no less crazy sounding. When working together they had an 11-5 record last year with this same scheme.


Not when someone with a basic understanding explains to them that the QB in question was limited by injuries.


By new guy do you mean QB, HC or both?

This play ended in a sack last night, too...


**Never mind, same play. Just a different angle